57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Reptilian Rob]

seitani wrote...

any news from bw

There wont be, ever. 

[balance5050]

JeffZero wrote...

Outlaw704 wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

@hex


You've also missed all my posts where I've pointed out the lack of logic there but mentioned that in the past his post revealing LoTSB got a few details off as well and also that technically most absurdities are now possible after the space magic of Synthesis. If I may be so bold for one sentence here you have also missed the many positive, constructive posts I have made on BSN for over a year now in which I have clearly proven I don't make it a habit to jump in blindly.

The space magic makes sense because it was all an indoctrinated induced hallucination, care to explain the logic fallacies you find?  Ironically the ending makes way more sense if its figurtive like this thread suggests then if its suppose to be taken literal.

Oh, it's a well-chiseled theory apart from the Prothean VI on Thessia detecting only Leng's indoctrination.

Resources though. Freaking resources. Time. Money. Forbes coverage. Amazon review damage-dealing. All the damage control. But mostly just time and money. If the intent is to make another ending as DLC it will fail quality-wise or be much steeper to create than DLC budget allows.

If the intent is instead to leave the ME universe in such a fashion then they've done something profoundly stupid. Worse than the endings at face value, there truly is no closure whatsoever. Not even the scraps the endings provide. Nothing.

I have a feeling that you don;t really know how much they get for DLC budget and you are just speculating.

Broken steel was DLC and it was FANTASTIC, some of the best content of the game.

[SWaTrus]

Ona Demonie wrote...

Rob_K1 wrote...

camcon2100 wrote...

Not sure if you guys heard this but you hear a reaper shout at 4:34 here
here
Also when Shepard is looking for the kid at 0:56 seconds 
here
Hmm interesting they sound very familiar and if anything prove that when Shep wakes up there are still reapers around!

Bingo! I think? 

That doesn't sound like a reaper shout. 

It looks like concrete and reinforcing steel. At the citadel was builtfrom this material for your opinion? It's a space station! 

[Outlaw704]

JeffZero wrote...

Outlaw704 wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

@hex


You've also missed all my posts where I've pointed out the lack of logic there but mentioned that in the past his post revealing LoTSB got a few details off as well and also that technically most absurdities are now possible after the space magic of Synthesis. If I may be so bold for one sentence here you have also missed the many positive, constructive posts I have made on BSN for over a year now in which I have clearly proven I don't make it a habit to jump in blindly.

The space magic makes sense because it was all an indoctrinated induced hallucination, care to explain the logic fallacies you find?  Ironically the ending makes way more sense if its figurtive like this thread suggests then if its suppose to be taken literal.

Oh, it's a well-chiseled theory apart from the Prothean VI on Thessia detecting only Leng's indoctrination.

Resources though. Freaking resources. Time. Money. Forbes coverage. Amazon review damage-dealing. All the damage control. But mostly just time and money. If the intent is to make another ending as DLC it will fail quality-wise or be much steeper to create than DLC budget allows.

If the intent is instead to leave the ME universe in such a fashion then they've done something profoundly stupid. Worse than the endings at face value, there truly is no closure whatsoever. Not even the scraps the endings provide. Nothing.

If the Protheans could detect indoctrination perfectly then sleeper agents wouldn't have sabotaged the crucible and the species surivival plans back in Javiks day. Besides the runnning theory is that Shepard hasn't been totally indoctrinated, he is in the process of getting indoctrinated, thats a key difference. Shep didn't hit rock bottom until getting knocked out by Harbinger and thats went he(Harby) could totally enter a weaker willed shepards mind.

The theory is that the 3 decisions at the end of the game will either make you fully indoctrinated, or totally break the process of being indoctrinated. It could be that Saren, TIM and maybe even Anderson were both put in similar situations by the reapers where they were given the choice inside their mind of what they would do if they could kill, destroy, or merge with the reapers.  Since Saren had no idea about the crucible and seeing the reapers and unbeatble synthetic Gods it may have lead him to believe that destroying wasn't an option and he chose "synthesis" which lead him to become a reaper agent.Anderson could have been a cannidate for reaper indoctrination, thats why it shows him picking the destroy choice in the cutscene.(this is all speculation by my part but the indoctrinated decisions shep face is as much theory as evolution or gravity IMO it makes too much sense not tbe true. )

Finacally I don't think you have a solid stance, if they had the resources to use two different teams for two different parts of the game(SP, MP)  I  don't think BIoware or EA  for that matter would have any problems making an hour or 2 hour long DLC Expansion... Matter of fact Bioware already made a huge DLC  expansion for a far less profitable game( Dragon Age Origins) in Awakening.. I  see no reason why Bioware wouldn't make an expansion for its biggest cash cow especailly in its send off game to its first trilogy.

Modifié par Outlaw704, 13 mars 2012 - 08:50 .

[Little Lummo]

panamakira wrote...

Milvushina wrote...

panamakira wrote...

Did the "perfect ending" had your teammates dead in front of you when you wake up from the blast?

I has 4700+ EMS and 71% readiness....and I saw the bodies of Kaidan and Garrus before me. Anyone know?

Did you get the "perfect ending"?

I thought you had to have a very low EMS to see the dead squadmates, and a very high EMS to see the perfect ending.

Was Kaidan your LI?  If so was he still on the jungle planet even though you saw his body?

I had assumed I had enough for a perfect ending. Yes, Kaidan was LI and to be honest I couldn't recognize the body of Garrus anywhere but assumed that the body in front of Kaidan was Garrus but I couldn't really tell. Kaidan was dead in front of me when I woke up, a pool of blood under him. This was the only really "negative" aspect I got in the ending, all the other scenes with the soldiers cheering, didn't see anyone else die. Shep lived in my Destroy ending.

And yeah Kaidan comes out like he just had a shower and a shave out of the Normandy in the jungle, followed by the missing Garrus. That's just weird. I could understand your squadmates "maybe" appearing on the Normandy if you didn't see their bodies but Kaidan was pretty dead when I woke up from the beam blast.

Are you definitely sure it was Kaidan? Not somebody who looked similar? Was it anybody in this clip 

[squee365]

ericjdev wrote...

When I see "was the ending a hallucination' my brain processes that as 'Was the ending a lazy, senseless piece of crap, or was it a lazy, senseless piece of crap dream sequence. Either way, it still stinks.

Maybe you should read the OP and actually think about what we're going on about.

[Milvushina]

panamakira wrote...

Milvushina wrote...

panamakira wrote...

Did the "perfect ending" had your teammates dead in front of you when you wake up from the blast?

I has 4700+ EMS and 71% readiness....and I saw the bodies of Kaidan and Garrus before me. Anyone know?

Did you get the "perfect ending"?

I thought you had to have a very low EMS to see the dead squadmates, and a very high EMS to see the perfect ending.

Was Kaidan your LI?  If so was he still on the jungle planet even though you saw his body?

I had assumed I had enough for a perfect ending. Yes, Kaidan was LI and to be honest I couldn't recognize the body of Garrus anywhere but assumed that the body in front of Kaidan was Garrus but I couldn't really tell. Kaidan was dead in front of me when I woke up, a pool of blood under him. This was the only really "negative" aspect I got in the ending, all the other scenes with the soldiers cheering, didn't see anyone else die. Shep lived in my Destroy ending.

And yeah Kaidan comes out like he just had a shower and a shave out of the Normandy in the jungle, followed by the missing Garrus. That's just weird. I could understand your squadmates "maybe" appearing on the Normandy if you didn't see their bodies but Kaidan was pretty dead when I woke up from the beam blast.

I am about 99.9% sure the only bodies I saw were all anonymous humans.  I think if you thought you saw a Turian's body you probably did.   And yeah if you then still saw them get off the Normandy then that is really hard to believe.

[FrostByte-GER]

Rob_K1 wrote...

camcon2100 wrote...

Not sure if you guys heard this but you hear a reaper shout at 4:34 here
here
Also when Shepard is looking for the kid at 0:56 seconds 
here
Hmm interesting they sound very familiar and if anything prove that when Shep wakes up there are still reapers around!

Bingo! I think? 

Dude, on the first vid, that was the sound then metal pipes or metal got bended...(Like if a ship is sinking. There is a sound of metalbending^^
On the second...not sure... it could be, but it could be also the sound of the reaper directly before shepard looks again in the ventilation shaft...

[Rip504]

Mr. Sandman... Show me a dream...

[BlackDragonBane]

twitter.com/#!/fish_stacey/status/179645383486611456 

Asked this of them about an hour ago, still waiting to see if I can get a slip up from them, but seeing how their posts have been, they'll slyly evade it.

[Reptilian Rob]

ericjdev wrote...

When I see "was the ending a hallucination' my brain processes that as 'Was the ending a lazy, senseless piece of crap, or was it a lazy, senseless piece of crap dream sequence. Either way, it still stinks.

Not to mention the fact that they destroyed the ENTIRE Mass Effect universe by imploding the Citadel and the relays.

Good ****ing job on that one.

[ArkkAngel007]

Ona Demonie wrote...

Rob_K1 wrote...

camcon2100 wrote...

Not sure if you guys heard this but you hear a reaper shout at 4:34 here
here
Also when Shepard is looking for the kid at 0:56 seconds 
here
Hmm interesting they sound very familiar and if anything prove that when Shep wakes up there are still reapers around!

Bingo! I think? 

That doesn't sound like a reaper shout. 

That was the sound of structural stress in the ending scene.

On Earth, it was a Reaper, but as it's a ventilation shaft and there are Reapers all around making racket, it's not enough to go on.

Modifié par ArkkAngel007, 13 mars 2012 - 08:51 .

[UrdnotGrunty2]

If they added a free indoctrination DLC that comes after the game is released in every continent then I guess you should be given a fourth choice which ignores all three of the choices and Shepard calls out the kid on his crap. Meaning of the three original choices, none of them are right.

Would remind me of Ender's Game when he was playing the Fantasy Game with the Giant, no matter what cup he drank from he died, there was no right option, no way to win. So instead of picking an option the giant (the reaper in ME3's case) was giving him, he simply ignored the options and did the unexpected winning the Fantasy Game (which wasn't meant to be won).

So I think if a DLC is added it will give a fourth option which leads to the DLC content and the 'good endings' where the other three presented by the reaper all lead to defeat. No way to win it but to deny the Reaper's options which all lead to indoctrination

[LenabotSE]

I had 3,400 EMS and only 50% readiness, since I'm not into multiplayer, and my squadmates were not killed next to the beam.

Modifié par LenabotSE, 13 mars 2012 - 08:47 .

[Baldurs Gate]

Ona Demonie wrote...

Rob_K1 wrote...

camcon2100 wrote...

Not sure if you guys heard this but you hear a reaper shout at 4:34 here
here
Also when Shepard is looking for the kid at 0:56 seconds 
here
Hmm interesting they sound very familiar and if anything prove that when Shep wakes up there are still reapers around!

Bingo! I think? 

That doesn't sound like a reaper shout. 

 I can accept the first one. You are back on Earth, you broke free of the indoctrination process and the Reapers are still there because, well, everything happened just in your mind.

 I am a bit reluctant about the second one. I recall a Reaper being outside, very close to your position, causing havoc. So that might be the sound you hear. But its still possible.

 Nice find.

Modifié par Baldurs Gate, 13 mars 2012 - 08:49 .

[Leafs43]

Rip504 wrote...

hex23 wrote...

Rip504 wrote...

Your happy ending is seeing the N7 armor and pretending...

Hence the 4k-5k needed to see the scene.
If it was default in all destroy Shepards maybe,but it is not,So no hallucination

If you don't have higher EMS you die regardless. The only way to see Shep alive at the end is:

1. Choose "Destroy", which we're suggesting is resisting Reaper indoctrination.

2. Have high enough EMS to actually survive the war on Earth, which is where your body still is.

This also explains why "Destroy" is the only option if you have low EMS. With no chance of survival Reapers have no reason to indoctrinate you.

Your Shepard,and that is enough reason. Get Shepard on your side and the rest of the galaxy will lose hope,There is always a reason to indoctrinate Shepard.LOL

Your happy ending is seeing the N7 armor... So the Reapers being destroyed is an indoctrination upon Shepard so the reapers can show him what he wants to see? Then Shepard is indoctrinated. either they die or Shepard is indoctrinated either way...

Or the control or synthesize options, which both lean heavily into becoming part of the machine, are actually the indoctrination options.  

Destroy is Shepherd breaking free of the indoctrination attempt. As it makes sense because star child says you will die if you choose the destroy option but you obviously survive if you have enough EMS.

You have to remember, if its all hallucination, it all plays out in Sheperd's mind.

[RobT2012]

anarch1888 wrote...

RobT2012 wrote...

the collector general was sat in a base built of reaper tech, that was actually building a human reaper. So the collector general really couldnt any closer than that to a reaper indoctrination field. I dont think it points to a greater mind bending power that harbinger has over all other reapers. Its still a local effect. Harby just uses a quantum entangler to end his thoughts to the collector base, and the local idoc field does the rest,

Well, even if he did do it through the QED, there's still the difference in sheer numbers that Harbinger and Sovereign controlled. The Geth in ME1 were there on their own free will if I remember it correctly.

-Draikin- wrote...

I'm surprised at how many people are clinging to this theory for hope that the endings weren't the real deal. Can I just ask this to the people who believe this theory: am I correct when I say you believe that in a week or so Bioware is actually going to come out and say "hey guys, it was all just a dream, here's the real ending for free"?

Dunno. I'm here just for the kicks of speculation.

The Geth prior to ME3 do not really have a conscious mind to control. Their programs operate on consensus getting progressively smarter the larger the geth platform becomes, as each program ads to the total processing power as a whole. They wanted a super structure to house all programs to reach their own perfection. ME1 Geth split from the main hive as they were promised a reaper construct to achieve this, they were not indoctrinated at all, they were bribed. The Geth do ascend to true conscious AI status en masse untill the events of ME3. In ME3 the geth working for the reapers, are still not actually indoctrinated, they were being attacked by Quarians, had their own super vessel destroyed and partnered with the repears willingly. The reaper code increased their processing power, to allow to them to function better, it does not say this is indoctrination.

[Dessalines]

panamakira wrote...

Did the "perfect ending" had your teammates dead in front of you when you wake up from the blast?

I has 4700+ EMS and 71% readiness....and I saw the bodies of Kaidan and Garrus before me. Anyone know?

I never see them. The first time i took off, because the guide does not mention the beam hitting you. I thought I could make it, so I am running top speed. I woke up and I did not see anyone. I know i did not see anyone the second time either. I even took the time to walk around to see. I even tried to retreat, and got a critical mission failure. I took Javil and either Ash or vega, so I should be able to make out the one Prothean in the game.

I am not even sure about the whole running scene. I am not sure who was running, and who wasn't running. I thought that Major was going to be running too. but you hear him over the radio after the blast.

[oyukichan]

panamakira wrote...

mayrabgood wrote...

panamakira wrote...
Did the "perfect ending" had your teammates dead in front of you when you wake up from the blast?

I has 4700+ EMS and 71% readiness....and I saw the bodies of Kaidan and Garrus before me. Anyone know?

I got the "perfect ending" at 5000+ EMs and 60 something % readiness and Kaidan and Garrus weren't shown at all after waking up from the blast. I took them with me everywhere so all the time on the citadel I kept wondering were they were, if they had survived.

Yeah but let's say since you got the best ending "maybe" both of them being on the Normandy might make sense because they lived in your ending....but it mine I'm pretty damn sure those two were dead. There was a pool of blood under Kaidan and bruises yet they teletransport to the Normandy and come out to the jungle like they just had breakfast.

Are you sure it was Kaidan and Garrus dead on the ground? I looked so hard for their bodies after the Reaper blast and didn't see them. Just random marines. I had something like 3600 or so EMS, so even Shep didn't live. But I didn't see dead Kaidan and Garrus (they were my ground squad too) and they both showed up on the Normandy.

[Dwailing]

Leafs43 wrote...

Tygur wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

 Ok, I have not managed to finish the game yet, but I have watched all the endings, and I think, or at least hope, that that makes me qualified to comment.

I was originally thinking about Anderson, and I wondered if he represented part of Shepard's mind in this context.  Think, for a moment, about what Anderson means to Shepard.  He was there through all three games, he was the man who originally brought Shepard abord the Normandy, and, perhaps most importantly, he was the only one who believed Shepard from the beginning.  His faith in Shepard never wavered.  So, maybe Anderson sort of plays the Horatio to Shepard's Hamlet, the only thing that keeps him anchored to sanitiy.  When Anderson dies in the "hallucination" (I only put it in quotes because Bioware has not said yea or nea to the idea) Shepard then goes to the Crucible.  At that point, it is likely that Shepard is at his weakest moment mentally.  Therefore, the Reapers now have their chance to try and take over.  Now, the destroy ending is the ending indicated by Anderson's image, right?  So, maybe that is Shepard's mind's way of saying, "This is what you should do".  Also, as pointed out by others, this is the ending indicated by the "kid" as having the worst consequences; Geth destroyed, EDI dead, Shepard possibly dead as well.  It would seem likely that the "kid" is trying to get Shepard not to take this option because the part of Shep's mind represented by Anderson, possibly the only person who has never faltered in his belief in Shepard and who Shepard has never faltered in his belief in, is telling him this is the right move.  Sorry if this got a little long winded, but I figured it was worth pointing out.  Any thoughts fellow BSN members? 

No, that seems right. The first time I got to the end and was presented with the choices, I literally said to myself "I'm going to pick destroy, because thats what Anderson wanted, and he was always there and always right and good.

How does Shepherd survive the destroy option with all his synthetic implants?

Well, if the whole thing was a hallucination, it would make sense that if this was the way to break free that he would survive.

[hex23]

JeffZero wrote..

The Reapers still kinda die though, don't they? Isn't that grounds for concern?

Uh....no. What are you talking about man lol?

The choice given to you is a metaphorical one.

Control/Sythesis = they successfuly indoctrinate you. This is exactly what Cerberus has been trying to do, and how did that work out for them? Hell, they even show you The Illusive Man directly prior to that scene, to show you how well that works out for humans.

Destroy = Resist indoctrination.

You aren't actually hurting the Reapers by picking that option. I'm not sure where the hallucination/indoctrination begins but it doesn't end until you see Shepard laying in rubble. Everything up to that is in your mind.

[JeffZero]

Here's another one: why does Shepard still bother dreaming up the Normandy crash after resisting indoctrination and choosing Destroy?

Also, why is that Stargazer scene always there?

Why does the congratulatory message (truly the closest thing to Word of God in the game) tell you the Reapers were defeated regardless of your choice?

[Evil_medved]

Well, if the whole thing was a hallucination, it would make sense that if this was the way to break free that he would survive.

Yep, because actually nothing happens, he just successfully defends himself from indoctrination.

JeffZero wrote...

Here's another one: why does Shepard
still bother dreaming up the Normandy crash after resisting
indoctrination and choosing Destroy?

Also, why is that Stargazer scene always there?

Why
does the congratulatory message (truly the closest thing to Word of God
in the game) tell you the Reapers were defeated regardless of your
choice?

Wadda ya expect? "YOU CHOSE WRONG AND NOW YOU ARE DED (Stay tuned!)?"
They keep quiet about that stuff if ya havent noticed.

Modifié par Evil_medved, 13 mars 2012 - 08:52 .

[Bigdoser]

Credits to Mr Gogeta34 for the post here is what he put down in another topic.
Reposting in case people missed it

More fuel for the Hallucination/Indoctrination Theory fire:

Collector's tried to take Shepard's body under Harbinger in ME2. "Preserve Shepard's body if possible" is a line by Harbinger that proves that the Reapers wanted Shepard for a long time... and perhaps even anticipated that Shepard would be their final element necessary for victory.
"We are the beginning, you are the end."
"Why do you resists us, Shepard?"
"I am the Harbinger of your perfection."
"I am the Harbinger of your ascendance."
"You cannot escape your destiny, Shepard."

Naturally though, that didn't work out...
"You have failed... we will find another way..." - Harbinger (ME2)

In Arrival, Harbinger makes it clear (under no uncertain terms) that he wants Shepard's mind. Object Rho did render Shepard unconscious and apparently, prior to that, Harbinger was trying to indoctrinate Shepard... but his will had been too strong.

"Struggle if you wish... your mind will be mine" - Harbinger (Arrival)

Shepard could've very well been "infected" by Rho's final shockwave, and when he came to... indoctrination began seeping in (with the ME3 Kid being its very first real manifestation). However this too, ultimately failed in its intention.

"Shepard, you have become an annoyance. You fight against inevitability... dust struggling against cosmic winds." -Harbinger (Arrival


"Know this as you die in vain... your time will come. Your species will fall." -Harbinger
(kinda sounds like some of ME3's endings)


So Harbinger tries something more creative to Indoctrinate Shepard... one that he may have learned from The Illusive Man... appealing to his compassionate side via child and his own sense of morality (Paragon/Renegade).

Also note that the same Renegade choice (Destroy ending) can play out in 2 unique ways... Whereas one is the "best" ending (with Shepard surviving)... the other Renegade choice kills everyone and obliterates everything. Such unique endings from the same choice only furthers the likelyhood of illusion.

[camcon2100]

Ona Demonie wrote...

Rob_K1 wrote...

camcon2100 wrote...

Not sure if you guys heard this but you hear a reaper shout at 4:34 here
here
Also when Shepard is looking for the kid at 0:56 seconds 
here
Hmm interesting they sound very familiar and if anything prove that when Shep wakes up there are still reapers around!

Bingo! I think? 

That doesn't sound like a reaper shout. 

It's pretty obvious it is. Thats why I linked both videos. You can't honestly tell me there is no similarity to the 2 noises?