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[Evil_medved]

JeffZero wrote...

So ME3 ends for approximately a quarter of the player base that even beats the game with Shepard resisting indoctrination.

Uh, congratulations. If it winds up true this is possibly even worse. One choice is correct and there truly, unequivocally, inarguably is no closure whatsoever.

You sure try hard to kill every bit of hope we have. Let us see the light while it lasts, k? When bio will burst our bubble, well have more then enough depression anyway.

[sjrskl]

One of the more brilliant implications of this ending could be that it's the reason we have less control over Shepard in this game; we get generally less choice in conversation and in the end we can only choose one thing to say against the catalyst. implying we are Shepard's willpower against the reapers or maybe I'm going a bit too meta here.

[panamakira]

Dessalines wrote...

panamakira wrote...

Did the "perfect ending" had your teammates dead in front of you when you wake up from the blast?

I has 4700+ EMS and 71% readiness....and I saw the bodies of Kaidan and Garrus before me. Anyone know?

I never see them. The first time i took off, because the guide does not mention the beam hitting you. I thought I could make it, so I am running top speed. I woke up and I did not see anyone. I know i did not see anyone the second time either. I even took the time to walk around to see. I even tried to retreat, and got a critical mission failure. I took Javil and either Ash or vega, so I should be able to make out the one Prothean in the game.

I am not even sure about the whole running scene. I am not sure who was running, and who wasn't running. I thought that Major was going to be running too. but you hear him over the radio after the blast.

That is so weird. I mean I think I had enough EMS points to not have seen any dead squadmates. The only one I know for sure I saw was Kaidan in the same position as the London officer shown in this video @0:53 to the right. I could tell it was Kaidan cuz his armor is easy to tell. I however saw another body in front of Kaidan and assumed it was Garrus but I'm not sure about that one. Kaidan? Definetely.

Maybe I'll take a pic. I play on Xbox though but I remember feeling hysterical when I saw him laying dead. Everything else in my ending matched the "perfect ending" though. The fact he appeared on Normandy was like "Huh?" I just saw you dead!

Modifié par panamakira, 13 mars 2012 - 09:00 .

[Shared]

Rip504 wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...


Or the control or synthesize options, which both lean heavily into becoming part of the machine, are actually the indoctrination options.  

Destroy is Shepherd breaking free of the indoctrination attempt. As it makes sense because star child says you will die if you choose the destroy option but you obviously survive if you have enough EMS.

You have to remember, if its all hallucination, it all plays out in Sheperd's mind.

We are talking about destroy,In one Shep armor hits the ground(High EMS). In the other Shepard armor does not (low EMS)

So???? He is indoctrinated and doesn't picture hiself surviving unless I get a high number?
Or could your Happy/good ending be you seeing the armor and pretending...
So if I have a low EMS and Shep does not see the N7 armor,what I never woke up from indoctrination? Reapers win after 5 years and 3 games? Really?

Why not? If you ****ed upp in ME 2, you die... So lets say this isnt the end of the game, and its just what we think it is, in his head. And you **** upp. You die, and its game freaking over. Your choices actually cause you to die! You loose reapers win (or offcourse you become indoctrinated). If you however see through the ruse, you live and get to defeat them

[anarch1888]

Elendstourist wrote...

It must be such a joy for the BioWare guys to follow this thread, seeing us discussing our butts off. It is like we are some sort of ant colony.

Aye. I can almost hear them whispering to each other: "Hey, let's poke them with a twig!" - "Yeah, see how they react."

[cyric085]

www.youtube.com/watch

watch
this, especially the part where the citadel explodes and the other part
where shep is taking a deep breath (same as when she wakes up from that
nightmare).
thats not poor and sloopy writing (since the last scene is totally unnecessary if it would be), there is definitely more to it.

[wryan2011]

Madkipz wrote...

Further proof that TIM and Anderson are just projections of your mind. Hinging on memories you have from your encounters with them and previous information you have acquired / associate with the two.

When you shoot Anderson in the gut, there's no blood anywhere, except when you are done chatting with Anderson, you are bleeding from the gut.

TIM's gun is the exact same type as yours.

Exactly, and if you notice, right after this Shepherd is bleeding profusely from the same spot he shot Anderson in.  Another poster mentioned Shepherd being shot before he enters the portal, but I checked and he was shot in the shoulder so why after Anderson is shot is Anderson not bleeding, but Shepherd is in the exact same spot.

[panamakira]

AurinShepard wrote...

panamakira wrote...

mayrabgood wrote...

panamakira wrote...
Did the "perfect ending" had your teammates dead in front of you when you wake up from the blast?

I has 4700+ EMS and 71% readiness....and I saw the bodies of Kaidan and Garrus before me. Anyone know?

I got the "perfect ending" at 5000+ EMs and 60 something % readiness and Kaidan and Garrus weren't shown at all after waking up from the blast. I took them with me everywhere so all the time on the citadel I kept wondering were they were, if they had survived.

Yeah but let's say since you got the best ending "maybe" both of them being on the Normandy might make sense because they lived in your ending....but it mine I'm pretty damn sure those two were dead. There was a pool of blood under Kaidan and bruises yet they teletransport to the Normandy and come out to the jungle like they just had breakfast.

Are you sure it was Kaidan and Garrus dead on the ground? I looked so hard for their bodies after the Reaper blast and didn't see them. Just random marines. I had something like 3600 or so EMS, so even Shep didn't live. But I didn't see dead Kaidan and Garrus (they were my ground squad too) and they both showed up on the Normandy.

I'm gonna have to take a look again, maybe take a photo because I play on Xbox but I remember the feeling of despair when I saw his corpse. Maybe it's a bug? I don't know~

[Reptilian Rob]

anarch1888 wrote...

Elendstourist wrote...

It must be such a joy for the BioWare guys to follow this thread, seeing us discussing our butts off. It is like we are some sort of ant colony.

Aye. I can almost hear them whispering to each other: "Hey, let's poke them with a twig!" - "Yeah, see how they react."

Nope, they are too busy counting your money. 

[Sl4sh3r]

Rip504 wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...


Or the control or synthesize options, which both lean heavily into becoming part of the machine, are actually the indoctrination options.  

Destroy is Shepherd breaking free of the indoctrination attempt. As it makes sense because star child says you will die if you choose the destroy option but you obviously survive if you have enough EMS.

You have to remember, if its all hallucination, it all plays out in Sheperd's mind.

We are talking about destroy,In one Shep armor hits the ground(High EMS). In the other Shepard armor does not (low EMS)

So???? He is indoctrinated and doesn't picture hiself surviving unless I get a high number?
Or could your Happy/good ending be you seeing the armor and pretending...
So if I have a low EMS and Shep does not see the N7 armor,what I never woke up from indoctrination? Reapers win after 5 years and 3 games? Really?

Think of EMS like loyalty missions in ME2. If you didn't do them and rushed to the end of the game, more squad members could die, and even Shepard could die. This is the same in ME3 but it's called EMS.

[Elendstourist]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

BIG flaw in the logic of this thread.

So, only one ending is the correct one? Only one ending, that maybe only 35% of the player-base will actually attain is the continuing point?

LOL no.

One ending is the best ending. Thats why it shows Shepard alive.
The game always made you face your decisions. Could work with the other two endings. COULD.

[Dessalines]

kent80082006 wrote...

Seriously if the indoctrination theory is not true to some extent I really can't think of other reasons why the star child says "wake up" instead of "why are you here" if you have different EMS, "wake up" can apply to both cases, why change it if it's not of some significance?

Exactly, he is either acting like you are friends or he is a jerk. There are bunch of different dialogue changes. It is not base on your EMS. It is base on your paragon/renegade or something else. I am not sure. I have over 4,000 but not 5,000, an he said wake up.

[squee365]

"Struggle if you wish... your mind will be mine" - Harbinger (Arrival)

If that doesn't convince people, I don't know what will.

[MissMaster_2]

LenabotSE wrote...

Another questionable thing, though easily dismissed by "the writers just wanted things to be darker":

Why is Shepard having guilt-induced dreams right NOW? Especially if they're supposedly fueled by the death of Kaidan or Ashley at the start? A paragon Shepard expresses guilt over the decision in ME2, but never acts traumatized. It's a did-what-I-had-to-do situation. The invasion of Earth is an obviously huge factor in having a breakdown, but Shepard's dreams never concern the Earth itself -- only the whispers of dead squadmates and the suspicious child.

This is what I have been thinking too.

[ratzerman]

This thread moves impossibly fast. I can't go to work all day, then read through a hundred pages. :-(

Hope the OP keeps updating. There was some cool audio stuff posted last night that hasn't made it into the OP.

[Milvushina]

JeffZero wrote...

Here's another one: why does Shepard still bother dreaming up the Normandy crash after resisting indoctrination and choosing Destroy?

Also, why is that Stargazer scene always there?

Why does the congratulatory message (truly the closest thing to Word of God in the game) tell you the Reapers were defeated regardless of your choice?

Maybe because there's no "real" ending and it's all open to interpretation.  You can believe that your Shepard really successfully merged synthetic and organic life because he was better than Saren.  You can believe he truly took control of the Reapers and saved everyone because he was stronger than TIM.  Or you can believe he broke indoctrination and met his goal all along, to succeed where every other cycle failed and destroy the Reapers. 

There is good evidence for the indoctriniation idea but it's mostly self-contained in the destroy ending.  The best evidence is the phsycial survival of Shepard, because it's the closest you come to catching the kid-thing in a flat out lie.  

[JeffZero]

Dwailing wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

Here's another one: why does Shepard still bother dreaming up the Normandy crash after resisting indoctrination and choosing Destroy?

Also, why is that Stargazer scene always there?

Why does the congratulatory message (truly the closest thing to Word of God in the game) tell you the Reapers were defeated regardless of your choice?

Well, for point one, it is still possible that Shepard was still at least a little caught up in the hallucination/indoctrination and his mind was trying to find a way for them to survive.

For point two, it would make sense that after the war there would be a grandfather and his grandkid talking about the way things were, and that it is possible that the old man is mearly talking about what will happen to this kid when he grows up and can travel into space.

Last point, well, I'll leave that one up to others who have wittnessed the ending first hand.

But if the Stargazer scene always happens, the Reapers somehow always failed at annihilating everyone. Even when Shepard 'fails to resist indoctrination'. Or are post-credits scenes now part of his hopes as well? Well then why does this play even after Shepard wakes up?

[Rip504]

Shared wrote...

Rip504 wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...


Or the control or synthesize options, which both lean heavily into becoming part of the machine, are actually the indoctrination options.  

Destroy is Shepherd breaking free of the indoctrination attempt. As it makes sense because star child says you will die if you choose the destroy option but you obviously survive if you have enough EMS.

You have to remember, if its all hallucination, it all plays out in Sheperd's mind.

We are talking about destroy,In one Shep armor hits the ground(High EMS). In the other Shepard armor does not (low EMS)

So???? He is indoctrinated and doesn't picture hiself surviving unless I get a high number?
Or could your Happy/good ending be you seeing the armor and pretending...
So if I have a low EMS and Shep does not see the N7 armor,what I never woke up from indoctrination? Reapers win after 5 years and 3 games? Really?

Why not? If you ****ed upp in ME 2, you die... So lets say this isnt the end of the game, and its just what we think it is, in his head. And you **** upp. You die, and its game freaking over. Your choices actually cause you to die! You loose reapers win (or offcourse you become indoctrinated). If you however see through the ruse, you live and get to defeat them

LoL Where do you live and defeat them???
In the same ending you say I messed up on and died,while the Reapers won.
Because of a few points? My EMS(2nd playthrough) Was over 3k just under 4k.

[Outlaw704]

JeffZero wrote...

So ME3 ends for approximately a quarter of the player base that even beats the game with Shepard resisting indoctrination.

Uh, congratulations. If it winds up true this is possibly even worse. One choice is correct and there truly, unequivocally, inarguably is no closure whatsoever.

um a quarter? making up figures again?  If i had to guess it would probably be 10%, and regardless the profitability of the DLC  would recoup any loses in revenue. Some people being stuck in the stoneage and not having internet didn't stop Bioware from making story critical DLC for ME2.. and only one ending has shepard living so in a way they show which is correct.

[lookingglassmind]

Outlaw704 wrote...

I said this in my earlier post but I will reinstate this to see what yall think, what if Shepards god child indoctrination sequence wasn't unique at all.. what if the reapers do this to every candidate they see if they can become useful Reaper Agents? Using Saren, TIM and Anderson as examples... What if the reapers saw all 3 as viable agents and presented them with 3 choices, (Destroy - to fight off indoctrination, Control - To manipulate a persons greed - this turns the potential agent into a reaper slave, Synthesis - give up, feel that we should obey to reapers inorder not to perish.. I think its possible that these 3 were all given the choice and they all decided accordingly.. this is why it shows TIM and Anderson as picking their choices.. And Merging/working with the reapers was obviously Sarens choice, it makes sense to me atleast lol

I like this!

[LadyofRivendell]

Just like to add another thought I had:

The Prima guide lists how high your EMS needs to be for each different ending scenario. However, for all the options sans the 4,000+ EMS Destroy, it lists the choices as "and Shepard becomes a Reaper". Just going to throw that out in support of the indoctrination theory, and this is an EA owned and reviewed company writing the book.

[hex23]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

BIG flaw in the logic of this thread.

So, only one ending is the correct one? Only one ending, that maybe only 35% of the player-base will actually attain is the continuing point?

LOL no.

What? lol....seriously?

The whole point of the series is to destroy the Reapers. During the last 3 games, they beat you over the head with that message. It's driven home especially hard in part 3.

So in light of that why are you surprised that the only correct answer is "DESTROY THE REAPERS"? There is only one possible answer....The Illusive Man shows you how working with the Reapers, or trying to control them, turns out directly before you're give the decision.

[holyshock18]

JeffZero wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

Here's another one: why does Shepard still bother dreaming up the Normandy crash after resisting indoctrination and choosing Destroy?

Also, why is that Stargazer scene always there?

Why does the congratulatory message (truly the closest thing to Word of God in the game) tell you the Reapers were defeated regardless of your choice?

Well, for point one, it is still possible that Shepard was still at least a little caught up in the hallucination/indoctrination and his mind was trying to find a way for them to survive.

For point two, it would make sense that after the war there would be a grandfather and his grandkid talking about the way things were, and that it is possible that the old man is mearly talking about what will happen to this kid when he grows up and can travel into space.

Last point, well, I'll leave that one up to others who have wittnessed the ending first hand.

But if the Stargazer scene always happens, the Reapers somehow always failed at annihilating everyone. Even when Shepard 'fails to resist indoctrination'. Or are post-credits scenes now part of his hopes as well? Well then why does this play even after Shepard wakes up?

Well ofc they leave the younger races alone. I cant see if they are human so far off. Its same if you saw 2 asari. They could look like 2 humans to from far range

[MissMaster_2]

squee365 wrote...

"Struggle if you wish... your mind will be mine" - Harbinger (Arrival)

If that doesn't convince people, I don't know what will.

And boom goes the dynamite

[lookingglassmind]

hex23 wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

BIG flaw in the logic of this thread.

So, only one ending is the correct one? Only one ending, that maybe only 35% of the player-base will actually attain is the continuing point?

LOL no.

What? lol....seriously?

The whole point of the series is to destroy the Reapers. During the last 3 games, they beat you over the head with that message. It's driven home especially hard in part 3.

So in light of that why are you surprised that the only correct answer is "DESTROY THE REAPERS"? There is only one possible answer....The Illusive Man shows you how working with the Reapers, or trying to control them, turns out directly before you're give the decision.

Sorry, hex, but did you read the theory at all? Or even Page 1 of this thread?

Read it, and come back and defend your statement.