57139 réponses à ce sujet

[MasterMenace]

Outlaw704 wrote...

I said this in my earlier post but I will reinstate this to see what yall think, what if Shepards god child indoctrination sequence wasn't unique at all.. what if the reapers do this to every candidate they see if they can become useful Reaper Agents? Using Saren, TIM and Anderson as examples... What if the reapers saw all 3 as viable agents and presented them with 3 choices, (Destroy - to fight off indoctrination, Control - To manipulate a persons greed - this turns the potential agent into a reaper slave, Synthesis - give up, feel that we should obey to reapers inorder not to perish.. I think its possible that these 3 were all given the choice and they all decided accordingly.. this is why it shows TIM and Anderson as picking their choices.. And Merging/working with the reapers was obviously Sarens choice, it makes sense to me atleast lol

It's possible, but I don't think so.

Harbinger has been trying all this time to figure out how to break Shepard's will. He finally learns that from TIM. To break Shepard...you need to find his weakness...which is trying to save everyone...especially that Child which is the biggest crack in Shepard's willpower.

Basically, Harbinger has adapted to what is needed to try to Indoctrinate Shepard the best way possible.

[VironZ]

Anyone tried moving the analog sticks, pressing buttons in the Stargazer scene, thinking of a Halo Reach moment maybe.

[Bigdoser]

Credits to Mr Gogeta34 for the post here is what he put down in another topic.
Reposting in case people missed it

More fuel for the Hallucination/Indoctrination Theory fire:

Collector's tried to take Shepard's body under Harbinger in ME2. "Preserve Shepard's body if possible" is a line by Harbinger that proves that the Reapers wanted Shepard for a long time... and perhaps even anticipated that Shepard would be their final element necessary for victory.
"We are the beginning, you are the end."
"Why do you resists us, Shepard?"
"I am the Harbinger of your perfection."
"I am the Harbinger of your ascendance."
"You cannot escape your destiny, Shepard."

Naturally though, that didn't work out...
"You have failed... we will find another way..." - Harbinger (ME2)

In Arrival, Harbinger makes it clear (under no uncertain terms) that he wants Shepard's mind. Object Rho did render Shepard unconscious and apparently, prior to that, Harbinger was trying to indoctrinate Shepard... but his will had been too strong.

"Struggle if you wish... your mind will be mine" - Harbinger (Arrival)

Shepard could've very well been "infected" by Rho's final shockwave, and when he came to... indoctrination began seeping in (with the ME3 Kid being its very first real manifestation). However this too, ultimately failed in its intention.

"Shepard, you have become an annoyance. You fight against inevitability... dust struggling against cosmic winds." -Harbinger (Arrival


"Know this as you die in vain... your time will come. Your species will fall." -Harbinger
(kinda sounds like some of ME3's endings)


So Harbinger tries something more creative to Indoctrinate Shepard... one that he may have learned from The Illusive Man... appealing to his compassionate side via child and his own sense of morality (Paragon/Renegade).

Also note that the same Renegade choice (Destroy ending) can play out in 2 unique ways... Whereas one is the "best" ending (with Shepard surviving)... the other Renegade choice kills everyone and obliterates everything. Such unique endings from the same choice only furthers the likelyhood of illusion. 

[ArkkAngel007]

LadyofRivendell wrote...

Just like to add another thought I had:

The Prima guide lists how high your EMS needs to be for each different ending scenario. However, for all the options sans the 4,000+ EMS Destroy, it lists the choices as "and Shepard becomes a Reaper". Just going to throw that out in support of the indoctrination theory, and this is an EA owned and reviewed company writing the book.

Um...bumping this due to heat burying it...

[Gryphonrampant]

When I finished my first playthrough, I initially accepted the endings as reality. Yay indoctrinated Synthesis-choosing me.

I think what bothers me most about the endings we're offered is the inevitable destruction of the mass relays. All the forces you've called to your aid can never go home. Without Wrex's leadership, the krogan's future seems pretty bleak. Stranded on Earth, the turian and quarian survivors would likely run out of food compatible to their biology. I just can't believe Tali would not only never get her house on the homeworld, but be condemned to death by eventual starvation after all this. Yes, there was a shot that included some liveships in the armada, but there's no guarantee these soft targets survived. For a story so full of hope, I just can't swallow an ending so grim.

I interpreted the scene on the jungle world to be some sort of afterlife. Garrus (my LI) and EDI made the dash for the conduit with me and appeared with Joker in that scene. Has anyone figured out any sort of pattern to who appears in that scene?

[hex23]

lookingglassmind wrote...

Sorry, hex, but did you read the theory at all? Or even Page 1 of this thread?

Read it, and come back and defend your statement.

Uh....what? I was one of the first people to support the indoctrination theory, and half the stuff being said I said 100+ pages ago.

The reason "destory the Reapers" is the only correct choice is because it's the only choice that has Shepard sticking to his original goal.

[Shared]

Actually, i just remembered something with the EMS, if you check in at your console as this rises, you go from, no chance, your outgunned blalba (dont remember exact wording) to when you cross 4 or 5k EMS that races/factions not usually in politics etc are gathering bla bla, you have an even chance, or something like that. Maybe something to take into consideration??

[anarch1888]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

anarch1888 wrote...

Elendstourist wrote...

It must be such a joy for the BioWare guys to follow this thread, seeing us discussing our butts off. It is like we are some sort of ant colony.

Aye. I can almost hear them whispering to each other: "Hey, let's poke them with a twig!" - "Yeah, see how they react."

Nope, they are too busy counting your money. 

You can do that simultaneously, you know? Makes the process that much more entertaining. But I digress...

Anyway, I think that the question of feasibility of the theory will resolve in a week or 2 at most. In that time Bioware will either release some news or get those landmines and barbed wire installed around their booth at PAX. In either case that will bring some clarity to the issue. In the meantime we can speculate all we want.

[Golferguy758]

I look forward to the amount of egg on the people's faces who say that Bioware just dropped the ball utterly.

[Ona Demonie]

camcon2100 wrote...

Ona Demonie wrote...

Rob_K1 wrote...

camcon2100 wrote...

Not sure if you guys heard this but you hear a reaper shout at 4:34 here
here
Also when Shepard is looking for the kid at 0:56 seconds 
here
Hmm interesting they sound very familiar and if anything prove that when Shep wakes up there are still reapers around!

Bingo! I think? 

That doesn't sound like a reaper shout. 

It's pretty obvious it is. Thats why I linked both videos. You can't honestly tell me there is no similarity to the 2 noises?

The first noise sounds like metal bending, kind of like the sound you hear when you're on the sidemission in ME2 when you're exploring a giant, crashed ship that tilts the more Shepard moves forward.

[Elendstourist]

I suggest updating the OP with the creepy twitter statements. Or an own thread for it. That woul make it much easier for someone who comes home from work and doent want so klick through 100 new pages. Just an idea of how to keep track in the discussion.

[Sl4sh3r]

bankesrule wrote...

I another proof to an indoctrination is this video:
if you watch and get to 1:41 does it not sound what the codex says for indoctrination?
I think it does, and if this the true than when Shepard gets unconscious from the lack of blood with TIM died and or Anderson, he wakes up to complete the indoctrination, just giving ideas on how this might work.

That kind of sounds like the "Reaper growl" from the beginning with the boy, and Shepard even seems affected by it.

Modifié par Sl4sh3r, 13 mars 2012 - 09:09 .

[luukee]

bankesrule wrote...

I another proof to an indoctrination is this video:
if you watch and get to 1:41 does it not sound what the codex says for indoctrination?
I think it does, and if this the true than when Shepard gets unconscious from the lack of blood with TIM died and or Anderson, he wakes up to complete the indoctrination, just giving ideas on how this might work.

Wow this is actually a really good find! You can't doubt that and say it's metallic debris or w/e.

[ReclaimedHavoc]

BlackDragonBane wrote...

This thread is getting out of control with all the disgruntled fans who come in here and trying to punch holes in it without actually backing themselves up and sticking to the 'bioware sucks' argument and the fact that things keep getting repeated by new comers

Perhaps we should be working together to make a complete compendium on all the evidence for the theory to help Byne (OP) out instead of feeding the people looking for a fight and fighting among ourselves.

If this truly was far-fetched, the thread would likely not have exploded as it has and we wouldn't have game evidence to support the theory at all. The bottom line is, the game itself is providing all the proof that is needed for this theory, from the VERY first game with Saren. We aren't a bunch of grieving fans grasping for a better explanation for what we got in the end of ME3, we're analyzing the hints and clues and information the game itself presents to us as it's presented to us.

Do not be so quick to bash us unless you have done your own in-depth analysis of the themes of the games.

Yeah this.
Why do people have to be so down on this theory? It works, and very well, at that. It's not like we're stretching, the evidence is all there, no need for people to be so negative.

[MissMaster_2]

Sailers wrote...

MissMaster_2 wrote...

savionen wrote...


Doesn't it show Shepard waking up AFTER Stargazer?

yes...I think

Nope, stargazer is after the credits. Shepard wakes up after the Normandy crashes.

Derp you are right. .

[bilwit]

assuming this is all true its still a terrible ending :/

[David Bergsma]

cyric085 wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch

watch
this, especially the part where the citadel explodes and the other part
where shep is taking a deep breath (same as when she wakes up from that
nightmare).
thats not poor and sloopy writing (since the last scene is totally unnecessary if it would be), there is definitely more to it.

The destroy ending is supposed to be the victory from reaper indoctrination
Did you noticed that shepard can't walk well (I don't know the word sorry ) but when she starts to shoot the hub she suddenly walks well (as if she's regaining control over the situation)?

[JeffZero]

BlackDragonBane wrote...

This thread is getting out of control with all the disgruntled fans who come in here and trying to punch holes in it without actually backing themselves up and sticking to the 'bioware sucks' argument and the fact that things keep getting repeated by new comers

Perhaps we should be working together to make a complete compendium on all the evidence for the theory to help Byne (OP) out instead of feeding the people looking for a fight and fighting among ourselves.

If this truly was far-fetched, the thread would likely not have exploded as it has and we wouldn't have game evidence to support the theory at all. The bottom line is, the game itself is providing all the proof that is needed for this theory, from the VERY first game with Saren. We aren't a bunch of grieving fans grasping for a better explanation for what we got in the end of ME3, we're analyzing the hints and clues and information the game itself presents to us as it's presented to us.

Do not be so quick to bash us unless you have done your own in-depth analysis of the themes of the games.

The thrust of my posting has nothing to do with believing BioWare's quality has anything to do with it. And yes, I've spent quite a bit of time analyzing the games' themes. I'm still more inclined to believe the writers simply dropped the ball on this ending until I hear otherwise directly from them.

And confirming this theory but saying that's a wrap for ME3 will only make things worse than the contrived nature of the endings as-is. Using DLC to expand it doesn't make any sense to me because if you didn't choose Destroy how the red hell do you play it?

And are they seriously going to spend the dough to get Sheen back for a DLC because 'jk he isn't dead'?

[Tallis Lucienis]

I just replayed the ending with 99% Galactic Readiness compared to my previous finish (Picking Synthesis) with 100%. I choose Destroy and EDI did NOT exit the Normandy after the crash as some have stipulated she does. Discuss?

[Rip504]

Sl4sh3r wrote...



Wow, you're so ****ing ignorant.

Go to the original post. If you have over 5k EMS at the end of the game and you choose the destroy option there is a "secret" ending where someone (assuming Shepard) in an N7 suit takes a breath of air.

The entire game is based around getting EMS, and you think it plays a small part in the story?

Loyalty missions in ME2 played a huge part.

EMS in ME3 plays a huge part.

At least have some understanding of the game you're playing. Holy ****.

LoL attack my Intelligence because I say your theory is jack polite-
Lmao. So EMS determines if my Shepard has the will to resit indoctrination?
LoL Read what you are saying. Your telling me that Shepard dies and the Reapers win just because I didn't have the Geth on my side LOL. That was and is the only difference in my 2 playthroughs.
EMS is support for Earth vs Reapers. Not Shepards will power. Anything you say I can say the oppisite,based on baseless theories. Look at what  I found in thin air and gave meaning to Lol.

Reapers Lost - Organics slightly win.

No I destroyed the Reapers and died in the end. The Scene with the N7 armor is your good/happy ending. One which you can pretend and make up theories. LoL

[DvkZ2]

@masseffect I love the series… but without promise of a better ending, I might as well smash my Xbox. Oh the months wasted..
Mass Effect Mass Effect ‏ @masseffect

Close

@bryceshirley Well, we would recommend not doing that, but that's just us.

This just in from their twitter. o,0

[VonJedi1]

Another thing I'm not sure whether people have mentioned, I'm sure they have over 350+ pages.

Why do they show Anderson and TIM controlling or destroying the Reapers? Presumably neither of them made it up there. We at least no Anderson didn't, and being that the Catalyst says Shepard is the first organic to make it up there, presumably neither did TIM. At no point in any of the series did they show anything like that. Why start now? Why basically say, this is what this person would do, it serves little relevance other than to play to the proverbial Angel and Devil on the shoulder logic in the previous scene.

[v0rt3x22]

Bigdoser wrote...

Credits to Mr Gogeta34 for the post here is what he put down in another topic.
Reposting in case people missed it

More fuel for the Hallucination/Indoctrination Theory fire:

Collector's tried to take Shepard's body under Harbinger in ME2. "Preserve Shepard's body if possible" is a line by Harbinger that proves that the Reapers wanted Shepard for a long time... and perhaps even anticipated that Shepard would be their final element necessary for victory.
"We are the beginning, you are the end."
"Why do you resists us, Shepard?"
"I am the Harbinger of your perfection."
"I am the Harbinger of your ascendance."
"You cannot escape your destiny, Shepard."

Naturally though, that didn't work out...
"You have failed... we will find another way..." - Harbinger (ME2)

In Arrival, Harbinger makes it clear (under no uncertain terms) that he wants Shepard's mind. Object Rho did render Shepard unconscious and apparently, prior to that, Harbinger was trying to indoctrinate Shepard... but his will had been too strong.

"Struggle if you wish... your mind will be mine" - Harbinger (Arrival)

Shepard could've very well been "infected" by Rho's final shockwave, and when he came to... indoctrination began seeping in (with the ME3 Kid being its very first real manifestation). However this too, ultimately failed in its intention.

"Shepard, you have become an annoyance. You fight against inevitability... dust struggling against cosmic winds." -Harbinger (Arrival


"Know this as you die in vain... your time will come. Your species will fall." -Harbinger
(kinda sounds like some of ME3's endings)


So Harbinger tries something more creative to Indoctrinate Shepard... one that he may have learned from The Illusive Man... appealing to his compassionate side via child and his own sense of morality (Paragon/Renegade).

Also note that the same Renegade choice (Destroy ending) can play out in 2 unique ways... Whereas one is the "best" ending (with Shepard surviving)... the other Renegade choice kills everyone and obliterates everything. Such unique endings from the same choice only furthers the likelyhood of illusion. 

YaY!

[MasterMenace]

v0rt3x22 wrote...

You know - I support the 'Indoctrination' Theory and consider this:

For a guy that's been a survivor throughout 3 games - manages to bring down Sovereign, killed Saren, survived the collectors, survived a 1:1 fight with a Reaper - I honestly think this is an absolutely great plot twist.

Consider the fact that when the Asari World is lost - we see a completely new side to Shepard.
He's sick of Cerberus, he's sick of the War - he's in need of a much deserved break - and he even gets sick at Jeff's Jokes.

Shepard is exhausted - and not that 'Super Hero'-I Survive-Everything - kind of guy anymore.

To have him (in a way) 'finally' succumb to the Reapers through indoctrination - and thereby highlighting the fact that Shepard always was 'Just Human' - is - for me - such a way better ending than what we all came to expect -> Go to the Citadel, Activate the Crucible -> War over.

It would have been almost predictable.

I'm happy with the way things seem to play out at the moment - if there's any truth to this theory.

Beautifully put man. Completely agree.

After reading each page...I will not accept any other theory besides this.

It's too...ingenious. It's masterful. It's ballsy. It's earth-breaking insanity. It's down-right effing amazing.

If only BW comes out and says...YOU ARE RIGHT....then that day will be the happiest day of my life...however pathetic that may sound...

This trilogy is a huge part of my life.

[Galadh]

bankesrule wrote...

I another proof to an indoctrination is this video:
if you watch and get to 1:41 does it not sound what the codex says for indoctrination?
 

Good catch!