57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Dap Brannigan]

kent80082006 wrote...

Seriously if the indoctrination theory is not true to some extent I really can't think of other reasons why the star child says "wake up" instead of "why are you here" if you have different EMS, "wake up" can apply to both cases, why change it if it's not of some significance?

Also, when the child tells him to "wake up", Shepard is on his hands and knees and moving -- not unconscious.  There's no reason for the child to tell him to "wake up".

[ArkkAngel007]

Outlaw704 wrote...

I said this in my earlier post but I will reinstate this to see what yall think, what if Shepards god child indoctrination sequence wasn't unique at all.. what if the reapers do this to every candidate they see if they can become useful Reaper Agents? Using Saren, TIM and Anderson as examples... What if the reapers saw all 3 as viable agents and presented them with 3 choices, (Destroy - to fight off indoctrination, Control - To manipulate a persons greed - this turns the potential agent into a reaper slave, Synthesis - give up, feel that we should obey to reapers inorder not to perish.. I think its possible that these 3 were all given the choice and they all decided accordingly.. this is why it shows TIM and Anderson as picking their choices.. And Merging/working with the reapers was obviously Sarens choice, it makes sense to me atleast lol

Sorry, but no.  These are avenues that the Reaper's want their victims to believe of course.  Serve, Control, Become.  

However, they had months to years to plant these ideas subtlely in the minds of their victims, without the need of a dog and pony show.

Shepard is on the brink of reaching the Citadel.  Shepard, who is the true catalyst.  That can't be allowed to happen in Reaper SOP.  Therefore, Shepard's mind is assaulted in it's weakened state in a final attempt to end Shepard's will to destroy the Reapers, which is the only real solution.

[Outlaw704]

MasterMenace wrote...

Outlaw704 wrote...

I said this in my earlier post but I will reinstate this to see what yall think, what if Shepards god child indoctrination sequence wasn't unique at all.. what if the reapers do this to every candidate they see if they can become useful Reaper Agents? Using Saren, TIM and Anderson as examples... What if the reapers saw all 3 as viable agents and presented them with 3 choices, (Destroy - to fight off indoctrination, Control - To manipulate a persons greed - this turns the potential agent into a reaper slave, Synthesis - give up, feel that we should obey to reapers inorder not to perish.. I think its possible that these 3 were all given the choice and they all decided accordingly.. this is why it shows TIM and Anderson as picking their choices.. And Merging/working with the reapers was obviously Sarens choice, it makes sense to me atleast lol

It's possible, but I don't think so.

Harbinger has been trying all this time to figure out how to break Shepard's will. He finally learns that from TIM. To break Shepard...you need to find his weakness...which is trying to save everyone...especially that Child which is the biggest crack in Shepard's willpower.

Basically, Harbinger has adapted to what is needed to try to Indoctrinate Shepard the best way possible.

Maybe the figure of the god Child ends up being any major figure in that potential agents psyche; it would be an excellent adapatble manipulation tatic, it would also explain why it shows Anderson and TIM making their respective decisions.

[Terraforming2154]

JeffZero wrote...

If so then I partially retract this one. Still seems silly to flavor even post-credits with a very particular element though.

I have to agree about stargazer...it is the one thing that makes me a little less hopeful that Bioware didn't just screw this series over. Everything else people have been uncovering is great, I think.

Stargazer really has a sort of schlocky ending vibe to it (even though I admire the narrator, of course).

I still have to hold out hope though.

Modifié par Terraforming2154, 13 mars 2012 - 09:12 .

[pika9519]

As a sort of out for those that picked something other than destroy (assuming this is correct, and I hope it is) and who have a high EMS, what if as a repercussion they have an LI/close squad mate try to snap them out of it. In turn, they lose said LI/squad mate and maybe a load of military, but end up "waking up."
Just a thought so people who didn't pick destroy aren't completely boned. ;P

[luukee]

DvkZ2 wrote...

@masseffect I love the series… but without promise of a better ending, I might as well smash my Xbox. Oh the months wasted..
Mass Effect Mass Effect ‏ @masseffect

Close

@bryceshirley Well, we would recommend not doing that, but that's just us.

This just in from their twitter. o,0

They could be meaning "don't smash your xbox" in a jokey way, but hopefully I'm being too literal about this. But the @masseffect twitter is just as cryptic and annoying as the endings.

[LadyofRivendell]

JeffZero wrote...

Evil_medved wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

So ME3 ends for approximately a quarter of the player base that even beats the game with Shepard resisting indoctrination.

Uh, congratulations. If it winds up true this is possibly even worse. One choice is correct and there truly, unequivocally, inarguably is no closure whatsoever.

You sure try hard to kill every bit of hope we have. Let us see the light while it lasts, k? When bio will burst our bubble, well have more then enough depression anyway.

Are you kidding? I've been actively collecting data participating in the fan campaign to deliver some form of decency to the endings. I just don't for a second believe this is how it's going to go down. And it hurts a lot more to fall down from higher ledges. Always best to be open to everything.

Which is why while I don't believe this I'll be happy if I'm wrong. And accept that it is still a possibility.

To quote Ashley, "A pessimist is what an optomist calls a realist."

[Little Lummo]

Tallis Lucienis wrote...

I just replayed the ending with 99% Galactic Readiness compared to my previous finish (Picking Synthesis) with 100%. I choose Destroy and EDI did NOT exit the Normandy after the crash as some have stipulated she does. Discuss?

I chose destroy too and i did not see EDI... Surely she would destroyed too?(unfortunately) 

[BlackDragonBane]

RobT2012 wrote...

BlackDragonBane wrote...

RobT2012 wrote...

anarch1888 wrote...

RobT2012 wrote...

the collector general was sat in a base built of reaper tech, that was actually building a human reaper. So the collector general really couldnt any closer than that to a reaper indoctrination field. I dont think it points to a greater mind bending power that harbinger has over all other reapers. Its still a local effect. Harby just uses a quantum entangler to end his thoughts to the collector base, and the local idoc field does the rest,

Well, even if he did do it through the QED, there's still the difference in sheer numbers that Harbinger and Sovereign controlled. The Geth in ME1 were there on their own free will if I remember it correctly.

-Draikin- wrote...

I'm surprised at how many people are clinging to this theory for hope that the endings weren't the real deal. Can I just ask this to the people who believe this theory: am I correct when I say you believe that in a week or so Bioware is actually going to come out and say "hey guys, it was all just a dream, here's the real ending for free"?

Dunno. I'm here just for the kicks of speculation.

The Geth prior to ME3 do not really have a conscious mind to control. Their programs operate on consensus getting progressively smarter the larger the geth platform becomes, as each program ads to the total processing power as a whole. They wanted a super structure to house all programs to reach their own perfection. ME1 Geth split from the main hive as they were promised a reaper construct to achieve this, they were not indoctrinated at all, they were bribed. The Geth do ascend to true conscious AI status en masse untill the events of ME3. In ME3 the geth working for the reapers, are still not actually indoctrinated, they were being attacked by Quarians, had their own super vessel destroyed and partnered with the repears willingly. The reaper code increased their processing power, to allow to them to function better, it does not say this is indoctrination.

Also doesn't say it isn't indoctrination, but in a different manner.

In ME2, I believe that Legion explains the difference between the Geth and the Heretics comes down to a difference in coding. Sovereign was found in the Perseus Veil, which the Geth called home and we all know the Reapers emit a signal that cause the indoctrination in organics, which slowly changes and breaks down the mind.

What's not to say that being organic and machine, the Reaper indoctrination signal carries an underlying transmisisoin that is capable of hacking AIs and implanting a virus that slowly modifies their coding just like indoctrination changes an organic's mind?

Granted I really have nothing to really support this thought aside from Legion's short dialogue in ME2, but I'm just throwing it out there.

I get what you are saying and its not possible to say for certain whether right or wrong. What I am saying is that the Geth with the exception of Legion who was built wholly differently for his recon mission, do not need to be indoctrinated like organics. They are by and large giant logic programs. They make the logical choice to partner with the dominating force, they dont need to be forced to it in the way humans do. Not saying im right either. I am just using this to say that the amount of Geth forces under sovereign and harbingers control is not going to be a good indicator of who had the strongest indoctriation skills, as machines would have logically joined for survival, in fact doesnt legion say exactly that, that the geth joined Harby to save themselves from the Quarian onslaught?

I don't believe Legion ever said the Geth united with Sovereign to chase off the Quarians. If you did the little bonus thing through the Geth server with Legion, it even shows you that the Quarians instigated the war, not the Geth and the overwhelming rebellion of the Geth chased the Quarians out of the Persues Veil. This segment of the game also hints at that Legion (software form) Is much older than he makes himself appear, or at least knows alot more about when the Geth and the Heretics became divided.

If the Geth were working with Sovereign in that regard, why stop chasing the Quarians once they left the Persus Veil?

But there's nothing in the games that's concrete enough to really support either of our arguements because there just isn't enough data on the conflict between the Geth and the Quarians and when the Heretics came to be about. 

[Ecmoose]

People hating on the Indoctrination theory sound like this:

Before they finish ME3: "I bought ME1 I loved it. I bought ME2, I loved it. They both had such an amazing story and were so much fun to play. BW really knows how to make amazing characters and tell a wonderful story."

Finish ME3, see theory: "There's NO WAY BioWare could have fooled me with an amazing plot twist, they don't write good stories."

[JeffZero]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

LadyofRivendell wrote...

Just like to add another thought I had:

The Prima guide lists how high your EMS needs to be for each different ending scenario. However, for all the options sans the 4,000+ EMS Destroy, it lists the choices as "and Shepard becomes a Reaper". Just going to throw that out in support of the indoctrination theory, and this is an EA owned and reviewed company writing the book.

Um...bumping this due to heat burying it...

Prima gets a hundred things wrong with every guide they publish. That same page claims NG Plus gets a secret ending but doesn't bother to mention that importing players already get it, thus the origin of all those debates until reality sunk in.

[IronSabbath88]

I wonder that if this is fact

Will the people who are outright dismissing this theory as bull still play the actual ending?

Of course they will.

[JunMadine]

We the players have been indoctrinated. Bioware will save us it was all a joke. On par with EDI but a joke.

At least I hope.

[De1ta G]

JeffZero wrote...

BlackDragonBane wrote...

This thread is getting out of control with all the disgruntled fans who come in here and trying to punch holes in it without actually backing themselves up and sticking to the 'bioware sucks' argument and the fact that things keep getting repeated by new comers

Perhaps we should be working together to make a complete compendium on all the evidence for the theory to help Byne (OP) out instead of feeding the people looking for a fight and fighting among ourselves.

If this truly was far-fetched, the thread would likely not have exploded as it has and we wouldn't have game evidence to support the theory at all. The bottom line is, the game itself is providing all the proof that is needed for this theory, from the VERY first game with Saren. We aren't a bunch of grieving fans grasping for a better explanation for what we got in the end of ME3, we're analyzing the hints and clues and information the game itself presents to us as it's presented to us.

Do not be so quick to bash us unless you have done your own in-depth analysis of the themes of the games.

The thrust of my posting has nothing to do with believing BioWare's quality has anything to do with it. And yes, I've spent quite a bit of time analyzing the games' themes. I'm still more inclined to believe the writers simply dropped the ball on this ending until I hear otherwise directly from them.

And confirming this theory but saying that's a wrap for ME3 will only make things worse than the contrived nature of the endings as-is. Using DLC to expand it doesn't make any sense to me because if you didn't choose Destroy how the red hell do you play it?

And are they seriously going to spend the dough to get Sheen back for a DLC because 'jk he isn't dead'?

I'm sure the dlc has already been made. Heck, maybe already on your disc. Just needs to be activated. It makes sense that they would want to the release the ending to the whole world at the same time. Japan doesn't get their copies until the 15th. I know it's a risk by BioWare but it's also genius.

[kent80082006]

May I just point out something which I find perplexing

Have any of us questioned what the crucible was supposed to do before implementing the use of the citadel? The Prothean VI stated that the decision to include the catalyst (citadel) into the blueprints was made amid its designing process. The use of the catalyst must have changed the crucible's function somehow since it's not included in the very beginning.

What even bothers me more is that previous civilizations may not know about the existence of the star child, I have a strong feeling that the current three color options are not the crucible's intended function but choices devised by the star child himself....

[Golferguy758]

bilwit wrote...

assuming this is all true its still a terrible ending :/

I swear I'm going to just make a word document with all the stock responses to the same stock statements that get repeated over and over and over again.

These are not "Endings" They are part of the climax according to the theory. The ending has yet to be shown.

[FrostByte-GER]

WHAT THE ****?

https://twitter.com/...675931051429888

ashley darley ‏ @tashdarley
@masseffect When I chose the destroy option, the shockwave was purple/pink? Is there any reason why it could have been like that?

Mass Effect @masseffect
@tashdarley Mixed it up a bit?

Modifié par FrostByte-GER, 13 mars 2012 - 09:15 .

[snackynak]

Hmm, he's my 2 cents to this novel of the thread(350+ pages!)

1. Reference to the moving walls: This ties into the audio log in ME2/disabled reaper mission, which could indicate indoctrination, either by the reapers or by TIM. Or it could be neither and simply the citadel resetting itself for the next cycle.
2. Kid in the vent during the intro: Ties into ME2/disabled reaper mission, where one of the scientist claims to have seen something in a vent(if I remember right).
3. Kid "teleporting" from the ground, up to the building, and back down again: Design error.
4. Smokey shadows during the dreams: Possible sign of indoctrination(ties with ME3/rachni queen)
5. Smokey shadows during the end with anderson and TIM: The indoctrination effect from TIM, who has limited control over reaper abilities.
6. 1M1: Nothing related to the story line. Unless I missed something, and 1M1 has a direct connection with the reapers or indoctrination, its mere presence doesn't indicate anything other than possible personal significance to the design artist.
7. pre-rendered cutscene with shepard in rubble: Doesn't look like the citadel to me, but other than the presence of concrete, I don't remember hearing any ambient battle, just electrical snaps. It could be in london, or it could be recycled from a cut ending scene.
8. Normandy getting hit with the blast wave, squadmates walk out after crashing: Continuity error. There were scenes cut from the game which show how your squad mates got back to the Normandy from earth.(See http://social.biowar...index/9787569/1 and http://imageshack.us...93/scriptw.jpg/ and http://youtu.be/eBktyyaV9LY?t=2m35s ) and it's not space magic. If your ESM was high enough, the Normandy was supposed to blast harbinger with missiles... Or maybe it wasn't cut from the game and it is a hallucination
Either way, that was way more than 2 cents

[WE_Belisarius]

Twitter update:
@masseffect can I just please have half turian half human babies on a tropical island with Garrus? I need ending variance!
@ddepaiva That would be living the dream...

I want to believe...

[Rip504]

lol Also if you wake up from this so called Indoctrination. The Indoctrination that has been occuring since the opening scene with the child/(The child who is the image of Humanity and the cost of the war) Why doesn't the Prothean VI sense some level of Indoctrination? Both Prothean VI's can detect it. Shouldn't javik be able to sense it?

But anyway back to what I am saying. If you pick destroy and wake up,How are the Reapers killed and defeated if you never left Earth to begin with? The crucible was never docked or turned on,as Shepard is the one who hits the switch...

The fight is still ongoing,and you picked the right ending or are you reaching for meaning in a meaningless ending?

[Tallis Lucienis]

Little Lummo wrote...

Tallis Lucienis wrote...

I just replayed the ending with 99% Galactic Readiness compared to my previous finish (Picking Synthesis) with 100%. I choose Destroy and EDI did NOT exit the Normandy after the crash as some have stipulated she does. Discuss?

I chose destroy too and i did not see EDI... Surely she would destroyed too?(unfortunately) 

I would like to see some of the peoples proof that she "survives" the Destroy ending. I have heard people see her walking out of the Normany. Maybe if she is one of the more used Squad Members? But I can understand that if they are trying to hide the Indoctrination situation that they would not let that slip especially after choosing Destroy.

[Sl4sh3r]

Rip504 wrote...

Sl4sh3r wrote...



Wow, you're so ****ing ignorant.

Go to the original post. If you have over 5k EMS at the end of the game and you choose the destroy option there is a "secret" ending where someone (assuming Shepard) in an N7 suit takes a breath of air.

The entire game is based around getting EMS, and you think it plays a small part in the story?

Loyalty missions in ME2 played a huge part.

EMS in ME3 plays a huge part.

At least have some understanding of the game you're playing. Holy ****.

LoL attack my Intelligence because I say your theory is jack polite-
Lmao. So EMS determines if my Shepard has the will to resit indoctrination?
LoL Read what you are saying. Your telling me that Shepard dies and the Reapers win just because I didn't have the Geth on my side LOL. That was and is the only difference in my 2 playthroughs.
EMS is support for Earth vs Reapers. Not Shepards will power. Anything you say I can say the oppisite,based on baseless theories. Look at what  I found in thin air and gave meaning to Lol.

Reapers Lost - Organics slightly win.

No I destroyed the Reapers and died in the end. The Scene with the N7 armor is your good/happy ending. One which you can pretend and make up theories. LoL

No, what I'm telling you is that if your EMS is low then it doesn't matter what options you're given. If this is Indoctrination and your EMS is low, what does Harbinger care if you resist? You're going to die anyway because you didn't gather the resources to resist their attack on the galaxy.

My attack on your intelligence is justified, whereas you simply go "LoL Reapers derp organics. Happy ending, I don't know what I'm playing"

Modifié par Sl4sh3r, 13 mars 2012 - 09:16 .

[Ecmoose]

Golferguy758 wrote...

bilwit wrote...

assuming this is all true its still a terrible ending :/

I swear I'm going to just make a word document with all the stock responses to the same stock statements that get repeated over and over and over again.

These are not "Endings" They are part of the climax according to the theory. The ending has yet to be shown.

You can forward the list to BW to use with all their stock photos

[Helnos]

byne wrote...
Wall of text (no offence)

This post has blown my mind, everything makes sense in a way i never thought possible.

As far as i'm concerned, this is how it was meant to be!
Glad I stuck to the mission and blew them up, even if it did make me think i'd killed the geth

[Elendstourist]

luukee wrote...

DvkZ2 wrote...

@masseffect I love the series… but without promise of a better ending, I might as well smash my Xbox. Oh the months wasted..
Mass Effect Mass Effect ‏ @masseffect

Close

@bryceshirley Well, we would recommend not doing that, but that's just us.

This just in from their twitter. o,0

They could be meaning "don't smash your xbox" in a jokey way, but hopefully I'm being too literal about this. But the @masseffect twitter is just as cryptic and annoying as the endings.

Not to forget the "hardest.day.ever" post on twitter, that recommended us to "hold onto our copy of ME3 forever".