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Was the ending a hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory


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#9051
lookingglassmind

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kent80082006 wrote...

ReclaimedHavoc wrote...

kent80082006 wrote...

[Important Question]

I know it's possible to have a destroy only outcome.
But is it possible to have a control only outcome? That will contradict with the theory...

What do you mean Control only?

If I am understanding you right, I heard a rumor that if you save the Collector Base, and show up with a low EMS, it forces you in to Control.


yea that's exactly what I meant, if this is true the theory has a major flaw


What? If anything, it proves the theory. You are indoctrinated.

#9052
Elendstourist

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Aedara wrote...

https://twitter.com/...680647869243392




Wow O_O That could say a lot.

#9053
Urumashi

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To answer my own question: looks like repetition to me, someone call me if something interesting happens.

#9054
SnowyKai

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Reposting because lost.

Txontirea ‏ @SnowyKai · Open
@Masseffect Why does the Catalyst say different things to you when he finds you depending on your EMS, HMMMM??? :D

Mass Effect ‏ @masseffect Close
@snowykai >.>
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#9055
Ecmoose

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Reptilian Rob wrote...

Dessalines wrote...

RobT2012 wrote...

Ecmoose wrote...

People hating on the Indoctrination theory sound like this:

Before they finish ME3: "I bought ME1 I loved it. I bought ME2, I loved it. They both had such an amazing story and were so much fun to play. BW really knows how to make amazing characters and tell a wonderful story."

Finish ME3, see theory: "There's NO WAY BioWare could have fooled me with an amazing plot twist, they don't write good stories."



Absolutely love this, couldnt agree more

They write good stories. It make no sense.

*MFW Dragon Age 2 and TORtanic.*


For the record, they were all different teams of developers. This may come as a shock but not everyone at BW has the exact same thought process.

#9056
ReclaimedHavoc

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Ainyan42 wrote...

Ainyan42 wrote...

I don't know if this has been mentioned - I have been trying to follow this thread from the beginning, but it moves so fast a lot is lost...

In Destroy, in order to destroy the Reapers, you have to break through glass surrounding the wires.

If you get Liara to reconcile with her father on the Citadel, they talk about Benezia and how Benezia resisted the indoctrination long enough to help Shepard. Liara states that Benezia said that being indoctrinated was 'like beating her hands on glass, watching what her body was doing.'

When you choose Destroy, you have to break the glass.

I'm probably reaching. But.


Self-Bumping trying to get this seen. So many posts on actual theory getting lost in the debate over whether we're all deluded or not. I thought this thread was to gather evidence and enjoy the possible twist, but everything seems to be degrading into a 'Yes it is!' 'No it isn't!' argument.

Yeah, the arguing blows.

I actually really like this thought.

#9057
DvkZ2

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@masseffect I kinda feel lost after that ending...not what I expected and left me feeling everything done was for nothing.
Mass Effect Mass Effect ‏ @masseffect

Close

@dacajunrtard We know it's a lot to take in! But hang in there. Your decisions matter.
Hide conversation

Second time they reiterate that our decisions do matter.

#9058
Reptilian Rob

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#9059
Falar

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Ainyan42 wrote...

Ainyan42 wrote...

I don't know if this has been mentioned - I have been trying to follow this thread from the beginning, but it moves so fast a lot is lost...

In Destroy, in order to destroy the Reapers, you have to break through glass surrounding the wires.

If you get Liara to reconcile with her father on the Citadel, they talk about Benezia and how Benezia resisted the indoctrination long enough to help Shepard. Liara states that Benezia said that being indoctrinated was 'like beating her hands on glass, watching what her body was doing.'

When you choose Destroy, you have to break the glass.

I'm probably reaching. But.


Self-Bumping trying to get this seen. So many posts on actual theory getting lost in the debate over whether we're all deluded or not. I thought this thread was to gather evidence and enjoy the possible twist, but everything seems to be degrading into a 'Yes it is!' 'No it isn't!' argument.


That's an interesting thought. It's a bit of a reach, but less so than some other things. It's definitely worth reflecting on, at any rate. :D

#9060
Golferguy758

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Crowbar ‏ @CrowbarRX · Details
@masseffect Mass Effect 3 was brilliant, the whole series was, but while this probably won't be answered, is that really how Shepard ends?

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Follow
@crowbarrx We can't saaaaay!



For what it's worth. Don't really like using tweets to convey a message other than the fact that it's close to a foreign language to me.

#9061
rogueagent6

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Posting this again for the newcomers to this thread. Remember, this is a war, you should think of all aspects of the game in that mindset.

What I think people are loosing sight of is that this is war. One of the most important tools in warfare is deception. Making your enemy think you are doing one thing, while you do another. Or more importantly, get your enemy to do what YOU want them to do.

Someone made the point last night that the child represents the face of everyone on Earth that Shepard cannot save, but that did not make it a "ghostly presence" as desdribed in the codex. Indeed the art book says exactly this. Why then, if the Catlyst is benevolent, did it choose the single most powerful image of failure Shepard has? They (the Reapers) want to demoarlize him the way you want to demoralize any enemy.

Indoctrination is a tool of the Reapers. It's present throughout all the games, novels, and comics. Why wouldn't they attempt to use it on Shepard? My Shepard personally has had a hand in the death of four Reapers, five if you include the proto Reaper from ME2. He destroyed the relay they were trying to use as a beach head into the galaxy. And is the single most important face in this fight. Major Coats points this out at the FOB back on earth. If the
Reapers were to succeed in getting Shepard to fall to indoctrination it would be the battle that wins the war.

Remember these points:

Saren wanted join with the reapers, "A synthesis of steel and flesh, with the strenghts of both, and the weakneses of neither."

The Illusive Man wants to control the Reapers. Says so multiple times throughout the game.

Both Saren and TIM were under the influence of the Reapers. Why then does "Catlyst Kid" portray Control and Synthesis as preferable alternatives to Destroy? He is deceiving you.

Modifié par rogueagent6, 13 mars 2012 - 09:37 .


#9062
netarchy

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https://twitter.com/...679799235715072

#9063
balance5050

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ReclaimedHavoc wrote...

kent80082006 wrote...

ReclaimedHavoc wrote...

kent80082006 wrote...

[Important Question]

I know it's possible to have a destroy only outcome.
But is it possible to have a control only outcome? That will contradict with the theory...

What do you mean Control only?

If I am understanding you right, I heard a rumor that if you save the Collector Base, and show up with a low EMS, it forces you in to Control.


yea that's exactly what I meant, if this is true the theory has a major flaw

How so?

I just think that your thought process is more like TIM, so it throws you down the TIM suggested path.


No holes puched, just means youre foced into indoctrination becaus you savee the base, more reaper tech around to indoctrinate you.

#9064
Earthborn_Shepard

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Brian Moran ‏ @DaCajunRTard
@masseffect I kinda feel lost after that ending...not what I expected and left me feeling everything done was for nothing.

Mass Effect Mass Effect ‏ @masseffect
@dacajunrtard We know it's a lot to take in! But hang in there. Your decisions matter.

#9065
Little Lummo

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@masseffect I kinda feel lost after that ending...not what I expected and left me feeling everything done was for nothing.

Mass Effect
‏@dacajunrtard We know it's a lot to take in! But hang in there. Your decisions matter.

Seen this?

Edit: Lol just noticed i been beat to it!

Modifié par Little Lummo, 13 mars 2012 - 09:38 .


#9066
Ona Demonie

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Dap Brannigan wrote...

Maybe they are withholding the ending because they simply needed more time. I am okay with this.

What I would not be okay with, is them charging more money for it.

If they needed more time, then they should have delayed the game. A late game is a good game (except for Duke Nukem).

#9067
Drewskii

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Rip504 wrote...

Entreri10 wrote...

Rip504 wrote...

lol Also if you wake up from this so called Indoctrination. The Indoctrination that has been occuring since the opening scene with the child/(The child who is the image of Humanity and the cost of the war) Why doesn't the Prothean VI sense some level of Indoctrination? Both Prothean VI's can detect it. Shouldn't javik be able to sense it?

But anyway back to what I am saying. If you pick destroy and wake up,How are the Reapers killed and defeated if you never left Earth to begin with? The crucible was never docked or turned on,as Shepard is the one who hits the switch...

The fight is still ongoing,and you picked the right ending or are you reaching for meaning in a meaningless ending?


The Prothean VI may have detected Kai Leng as completely indoctrinated- where as shepard was fighting their attempts at control...just a thought


There would be signs of Indoctrination,why help someone who will soon be indoctrinated. Vigil could detect different levels,and Protheans can "sense"  things... Javik implies? Vigil implies? The Prothean VI implies?
O that you are and never have been indoctrinated. OO It happen in the last 5 mins... OK


It's been explained 1000 times in this thread, but the Protheans weren't exactly experts at detecting all traces of indoctrination (as explained through sleeper agents in Prothean society).

If the indoctrination wasn't strong, clearly the VI could look over it.

Also, as no one has continued to mention for whatever reason (getting lost in theories as opposed to facts presented, theme of this thread unfortunately), during Priority Sanctuary there are multiple data pads pointing to ADRENALINE being an agent that amplifies indoctrination (more so than Red Sand). I'd venture to say running down the hill, preparing to take the last stand, dodging lazer beams, and eventually being "hit" by one, can push adrenaline through the ROOF. Plus, Harbinger's presence nearby. Not to mention that Shepards state of mind was weakening very sharp post Thessia.

#9068
ReclaimedHavoc

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With all these Tweets I pray that they're coming out with something official soon.

#9069
iSpitfireee

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www.youtube.com/watch

go to 1:51 and crank up your sound. you can hear andersons door open.

#9070
Thermorium

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Maike91 wrote...

Descedent wrote...

 
http://www.me3finalhours.com/


:blink:



#9071
Reptilian Rob

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Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

Brian Moran ‏ @DaCajunRTard
@masseffect I kinda feel lost after that ending...not what I expected and left me feeling everything done was for nothing.

Mass Effect Mass Effect ‏ @masseffect
@dacajunrtard We know it's a lot to take in! But hang in there. Your decisions matter.

That could mean several things, including the interpritation method BW is most likely going for...

#9072
LwjzeSlak

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https://twitter.com/#!/masseffect

Just check out their twitter.
They are responding very frequently, and not just thank yous and stuff.
They are responding to the fans who didn't like the ending.
This isn't over yet. I can feel it. I just hope BioWare doesn't disappoint.

#9073
JeffZero

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okay, one more post and then I'm genuinely done for the night. Gotta hop on a bus shortly. Thanks to those who explained the ire wasn't really directed at me. :)

#9074
Thermorium

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netarchy wrote...

https://twitter.com/...679799235715072



#9075
ArkkAngel007

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ReclaimedHavoc wrote...

Ainyan42 wrote...

Ainyan42 wrote...

I don't know if this has been mentioned - I have been trying to follow this thread from the beginning, but it moves so fast a lot is lost...

In Destroy, in order to destroy the Reapers, you have to break through glass surrounding the wires.

If you get Liara to reconcile with her father on the Citadel, they talk about Benezia and how Benezia resisted the indoctrination long enough to help Shepard. Liara states that Benezia said that being indoctrinated was 'like beating her hands on glass, watching what her body was doing.'

When you choose Destroy, you have to break the glass.

I'm probably reaching. But.


Self-Bumping trying to get this seen. So many posts on actual theory getting lost in the debate over whether we're all deluded or not. I thought this thread was to gather evidence and enjoy the possible twist, but everything seems to be degrading into a 'Yes it is!' 'No it isn't!' argument.

Yeah, the arguing blows.

I actually really like this thought.


That's pretty much what Grayson went through as well, and his indoctrination was probably more forceful than Benezia's at the beginning.