57139 réponses à ce sujet

[balance5050]

Ecmoose wrote...

Ainyan42 wrote...

Ecmoose wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

*picsnip*

Cute, food for thought though:

Synthetics killing all organic life forever, never allowing life to form again, is much different the synthetics reseting the galactic clock and allowing new organic life to bloom. Of course, you'd have to actually listen to the ending to understand that.

Except if you actually listened to the ending, you would hear the GodChild stating that they created the Reapers in response to the fact that it is inevitable that organic-created synthetics would rise up against their creators and destroy them. Every time a civilization reaches the point where they begin creating an AI, the Reapers are brought in to stop it by destroying the civilization responsible for creating the AI. Hence, the meme.

And once again, because if they allow synthetics to reign free they
will kill ALL organic life, instead of just space faring organic life.
I'm not saying it's a perfect solution or that it makes sense, would I
be here if I totally bought it?

But preserving under developed life, and wiping out all life permanently are two different things. It's kind of like the Christian belief that God punsished Adam and Eve for eating the forbidden fruit.

The reapers punish organics for making synthetic life. The difference between Reapers and God? Reapers kill Adam and Eve, and destroy the fruit as well, allowing new organic species to grow in the hopes that they won't create the death of all creation, but knowing that they probably will, so they swoop in the preserve the species that don't deserve the back lash from playing god and creating AI.

So the AI punishes organic life for creating AI? Thats seems logical.

[shgfosho]

Ona Demonie wrote...

shgfosho wrote...

Pretty definitive for me:

https://twitter.com/...666685740072961

Elaborate.

Her orignial post was: "While still upset/have issues with the ending, I now worry about the unintended consequences of all the rage from the fan base."

Clearly she initially felt the ending was horrible at first.

Besides the idea that BioWare's writers completely dropped the ball, the only other dominant theory right now is that the indoctrination attempt is what really happened. Given the context of her follow-up tweet saying she retracted her original statement, I believe this individual is alluding to the indoctrination being the explanation. Bioware's reply to her is one that recognizes she's on the right track. 

Modifié par shgfosho, 13 mars 2012 - 09:53 .

[ReclaimedHavoc]

anlk92 wrote...

Looks like Mass Effect twitter account is doing a lot of teasing. I hope they realize that if this is simple damage control and doesn't mean anything, it will only get people more furious, causing them to lose any remaining faith in Bioware.

It is annoying, but this whole theory keeps me chill.

If it wasn't for this thread I would've gone out of my mind.

[ArkkAngel007]

Remember that the Reaper influences were only present when Shepard was asleep or heavily injured. Sure, it sounds like f'n Harry Potter, but it makes sense that the weaker your state of mind, the more influence there is. Grayson was able to resist the Reapers, despite having implants, until his mind was compromised by red sand. Benezia was already selling into Saren's ideology until it was too late and the Reaper's had already taken hold. Saren and TIMs goals were malleable to the Reapers.

This is not the case with Shepard. Shepard's ideology is to destroy the Reapers. No compromise. No excuses. It's them or us. This mental block to the Reaper's is not one they can overcome through slight subterfuge on a conscience and strong Shepard.

So while the nightmare's may indicate a process of indoctrination, the Reapers had no hold on Shepard while awake and in a strong mental condition. The VI would not, therefore, be able to detect an indoctrination, as none was present.

[Reptilian Rob]

balance5050 wrote...

Ecmoose wrote...

Ainyan42 wrote...

Ecmoose wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

*picsnip*

Cute, food for thought though:

Synthetics killing all organic life forever, never allowing life to form again, is much different the synthetics reseting the galactic clock and allowing new organic life to bloom. Of course, you'd have to actually listen to the ending to understand that.

Except if you actually listened to the ending, you would hear the GodChild stating that they created the Reapers in response to the fact that it is inevitable that organic-created synthetics would rise up against their creators and destroy them. Every time a civilization reaches the point where they begin creating an AI, the Reapers are brought in to stop it by destroying the civilization responsible for creating the AI. Hence, the meme.

And once again, because if they allow synthetics to reign free they
will kill ALL organic life, instead of just space faring organic life.
I'm not saying it's a perfect solution or that it makes sense, would I
be here if I totally bought it?

But preserving under developed life, and wiping out all life permanently are two different things. It's kind of like the Christian belief that God punsished Adam and Eve for eating the forbidden fruit.

The reapers punish organics for making synthetic life. The difference between Reapers and God? Reapers kill Adam and Eve, and destroy the fruit as well, allowing new organic species to grow in the hopes that they won't create the death of all creation, but knowing that they probably will, so they swoop in the preserve the species that don't deserve the back lash from playing god and creating AI.

So the AI punishes organic life for creating AI? Thats seems logical.

I heard you liked synthetics in your organics, so I put some synthetics in the galaxy to destroy organics so that synthetics don't destroy organics.

[Icinix]

Ainyan42 wrote...

Ecmoose wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

*picsnip*

Cute, food for thought though:

Synthetics killing all organic life forever, never allowing life to form again, is much different the synthetics reseting the galactic clock and allowing new organic life to bloom. Of course, you'd have to actually listen to the ending to understand that.

Except if you actually listened to the ending, you would hear the GodChild stating that they created the Reapers in response to the fact that it is inevitable that organic-created synthetics would rise up against their creators and destroy them. Every time a civilization reaches the point where they begin creating an AI, the Reapers are brought in to stop it by destroying the civilization responsible for creating the AI. Hence, the meme.

One of the key reasons that this motivation doesn't make sense to me is this.

The Reapers were built to prevent a singularity occuring because its happened before - BUT - either they were able to destroy the synthetics somehow (so false singularity?) or the Reapers were able to destroy them?

In either situation before the Reapers began harvesting organic life - they had already beaten the singularity.

They. Defeated. The. Singularity.

Then in the absence of the singularity they started trying to prevent the singularity from occuring but in doing so they committed themselves to being the singularity- for millions of years they've been butchering organic life to prevent a situation they already defeated the first the time around - and could quite possibly come back and defeat if need be again - hell - why didn't they just stick around and keep organic life from leaving their worlds through space travel? Why let them develop technology at all. One reaper checking up on each planet every hundred years should keep them in the loop of any uprising.

[Bigdoser]

anlk92 wrote...

Looks like Mass Effect twitter account is doing a lot of teasing. I hope they realize that if this is simple damage control and doesn't mean anything, it will only get people more furious, causing them to lose any remaining faith in Bioware.

Yeah thats how I see it, if it was a developer twitter page that would give me pause and cause me to think about it a lot more. 

[DvkZ2]

@masseffect Are you holding something back, that could quell the large amount of frustration from the community, a tiny hint would be enough
Mass Effect Mass Effect ‏ @masseffect

Close

@jakefinn94 Mike Gamble already said on his twitter, if the fans knew what was in store, the reaction would be different.

Okay... now THIS is clear as water! (i think.. )

[Evil_medved]

ReclaimedHavoc wrote...

anlk92 wrote...

Looks like Mass Effect twitter account is doing a lot of teasing. I hope they realize that if this is simple damage control and doesn't mean anything, it will only get people more furious, causing them to lose any remaining faith in Bioware.

It is annoying, but this whole theory keeps me chill.

If it wasn't for this thread I would've gone out of my mind.

Yeah i agree. I even started considering replaying the game.

[Earthborn_Shepard]

Jake Finn ‏ @JakeFinn94

@masseffect Are you holding something back, that could quell the large amount of frustration from the community, a tiny hint would be enough
Mass Effect Mass Effect ‏ @masseffect

@jakefinn94 Mike Gamble already said on his twitter, if the fans knew what was in store, the reaction would be different.


YEEEEEEEEEEEES

[pika9519]

Bubba ‏ @Wethgrs
@masseffect You are either a massive sadist or a beacon of hope.
Mass Effect ‏ @masseffect
@wethgrs Can't it be both?

Damn teases....

[ceruleancrescent]

Outlaw704 wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

Anyone else think that the whole indoctrination thing is creepy as ****? I think I'm gonna have a nightmare about it tonight. Also this makes the "ending" ****ing scary, not sure if I could play it again, constantly thinking of how this is all just a horror vision.

I've been having problems sleeping the past couple of nights lol

For the past week I've been having dreams about Mass Effect, the first few nights were random, pleasant dreams, the last few nights have taken on a more ominous, dreary feeling...

[Elendstourist]

DvkZ2 wrote...

@masseffect Are you holding something back, that could quell the large amount of frustration from the community, a tiny hint would be enough
Mass Effect Mass Effect ‏ @masseffect

Close

@jakefinn94 Mike Gamble already said on his twitter, if the fans knew what was in store, the reaction would be different.

Okay... now THIS is clear as water! (i think.. )

That is a really solid statement!

[NalaG]

So, that's me from germany, just registering to discuss here with you.
I finished Mass Effect 3 on sunday and since them I'm in some sort of Denial/Anger phase. Don't know which it is exactly, but this thread helped me a bit. Well, it helped a lot and right now I am just waiting for the: Okay, here's your real ending.

Just want a chance to explain why I am angry:

Some say it's because my Paragon Shep didn't get her Happy End. So, let's be honest: I worked really hard to get her an happy end with Garrus by her side.

But aside from that it's something much more troubleing, because the end of ME3 is inconsistent with anything I'm used from Bioware. I've always been a huge fan of your games: I played Baldurs Gate (one of my very first games). I played multiple playthroughs of Dragon Age Origins and I've done my share of playthroughs on ME1&ME2.

And I loved your games because they gave me something incredible unique: I could DECIDE how the Story goes. I actually feeled like participating in an interactive adventure and not another Game Companies idea of basically doing a film with me shooting things inbetween.

When I played DAO it was always unique: My bitter Dwarf-Princess, I'll never forget her, making the hard choices and gettin' a real bitter ending. But there was also my human nobel who, despite losing everything she had, had been good. She married Alistair in the end, became queen (and got did I work hard for that ending).
The same in Me1&2. You gave me the opportunity to create a story, a different character with it's own ending. something unique that was totally my own.

I loved every second of Mass Effect 3. Mordin, one of my favorites, died - but I was okay with that, cried for full 5 minutes but it was for something good. There was a reason, something I could accept and it was my choice. Maybe I could save him with another, more ruthles shepard. The same goes for Thane and Legion. God, those were really great moments, maybe the best I've experienced so far in any medium.

After 29hours and a few minutes, gathering War assets, grinding and fighting like hell, watching my shepard going weary and feeling with him I guided her to run down to the citadel things, avoiding harbinger.

That's were everything collapses. Implodes. Everything I loved about your games, everything I loved about Mass Effect just simply gone. There were no different endings like in Dragon Age (and, be honest: That one had it's own kind of Reapers). I was totally taken aback. I wanted THAT ending that fitted my decision and that I felt you promised me. That's why I spent my hard earned money on this game. Because my actions would make a difference in the end. Wouldn't they? Apparantely no.

And then I got very, very, very angry. Now: Wanting to throw your CE against the next wall MAY be an emotional respose to your game, but perhapse not the one you should be aiming for in your audience.

Now I'm fully into the Indoctrination/Halluzination theory. It makes a lot more sense then whatever your end is and it gives me just enough hope to maybe enjoy annother 29 hours and 30 minutes of a great gaming.

There is no Shepard without Vakarian.

Good Evening,

please excuse my somewhat bad english.

[RobT2012]

DvkZ2 wrote...

@masseffect Are you holding something back, that could quell the large amount of frustration from the community, a tiny hint would be enough
Mass Effect Mass Effect ‏ @masseffect

Close

@jakefinn94 Mike Gamble already said on his twitter, if the fans knew what was in store, the reaction would be different.

Okay... now THIS is clear as water! (i think.. )

oh hell yes, if they are speaking the truth, then oh hell yes best indication we are not going insane here

[lookingglassmind]

Icinix wrote...

Ainyan42 wrote...

Ecmoose wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

*picsnip*

Cute, food for thought though:

Synthetics killing all organic life forever, never allowing life to form again, is much different the synthetics reseting the galactic clock and allowing new organic life to bloom. Of course, you'd have to actually listen to the ending to understand that.

Except if you actually listened to the ending, you would hear the GodChild stating that they created the Reapers in response to the fact that it is inevitable that organic-created synthetics would rise up against their creators and destroy them. Every time a civilization reaches the point where they begin creating an AI, the Reapers are brought in to stop it by destroying the civilization responsible for creating the AI. Hence, the meme.

One of the key reasons that this motivation doesn't make sense to me is this.

The Reapers were built to prevent a singularity occuring because its happened before - BUT - either they were able to destroy the synthetics somehow (so false singularity?) or the Reapers were able to destroy them?

In either situation before the Reapers began harvesting organic life - they had already beaten the singularity.

They. Defeated. The. Singularity.

Then in the absence of the singularity they started trying to prevent the singularity from occuring but in doing so they committed themselves to being the singularity- for millions of years they've been butchering organic life to prevent a situation they already defeated the first the time around - and could quite possibly come back and defeat if need be again - hell - why didn't they just stick around and keep organic life from leaving their worlds through space travel? Why let them develop technology at all. One reaper checking up on each planet every hundred years should keep them in the loop of any uprising.

I am not saying that this poster is correct.

But I think this is an imperative angle of discussion for the community.

[Eculiberty]

Mass Effect ‏ @masseffect 
@jakefinn94 Mike Gamble already said on his twitter, if the fans knew what was in store, the reaction would be different.


Thats something..

Modifié par Eculiberty, 13 mars 2012 - 09:56 .

[Ecmoose]

balance5050 wrote...

Ecmoose wrote...

Ainyan42 wrote...

Ecmoose wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

*picsnip*

Cute, food for thought though:

Synthetics killing all organic life forever, never allowing life to form again, is much different the synthetics reseting the galactic clock and allowing new organic life to bloom. Of course, you'd have to actually listen to the ending to understand that.

Except if you actually listened to the ending, you would hear the GodChild stating that they created the Reapers in response to the fact that it is inevitable that organic-created synthetics would rise up against their creators and destroy them. Every time a civilization reaches the point where they begin creating an AI, the Reapers are brought in to stop it by destroying the civilization responsible for creating the AI. Hence, the meme.

And once again, because if they allow synthetics to reign free they
will kill ALL organic life, instead of just space faring organic life.
I'm not saying it's a perfect solution or that it makes sense, would I
be here if I totally bought it?

But preserving under developed life, and wiping out all life permanently are two different things. It's kind of like the Christian belief that God punsished Adam and Eve for eating the forbidden fruit.

The reapers punish organics for making synthetic life. The difference between Reapers and God? Reapers kill Adam and Eve, and destroy the fruit as well, allowing new organic species to grow in the hopes that they won't create the death of all creation, but knowing that they probably will, so they swoop in the preserve the species that don't deserve the back lash from playing god and creating AI.

So the AI punishes organic life for creating AI? Thats seems logical.

Admiral Xen and Tali's Dad is the perfect example. Quarians make Geth, get screwed over by them, lose their planet, then go to war with them again. Xen and Tali's Dad want to take control of the Geth again. If they had succeded in that it likely would have inspired Geth to destroy all organics. Including the organics that didn't do anything to attack the Geth.

So the reapers play "savior" and they allow the lesser species to continue evolving by wiping out a threat that could potentially kill all life instead. It's akin to almost every other robot story. Where Robots become self aware and kill humans to "protect them". However in this situation the Reapers are only killing some races.

They're mass murderers with morals. 

[Paperdollies]

Okie dokie, im an art student and my study evolves working with metaphors and symboligies alot and i noticed alot of hint-like events during the final scenes. If so, here's what i think that support the 'dream' theory (some have been mentioned already): Hallucination is a high possibility because too much of the ending do not add up.
1. Shepard was 'teleported' to the citadel then during the final scenes, she/he's pistol had unlimited ammo and then she/he was lifted into a 'platform' like surrounding in space without armor or helmet.
2. The final 3 choices are much like the good/neutual/bad diague system all through out the ME series, if you look closely to the left: at the path to control the reapers, its in a blue tone, the center beam is neutual and the right path to destroy is red toned. Therefore giving you 3 different colors of explosions according to your decision. Blue paragon, green neutual and red renegade.
3. The boy is a repeated subject through out ME3. Children have the connotaion of being the representations of the 'hope' or humanity's future. Shepard get to see the boy playing outside at the very beginning of the game, and then as reapers attack she/he find the boy in a vent but the boy dissapears when shep looked back after Anderson urges Shep to hurry. If the dream theory is true, then the boy is real when shep saw him playing, but at and after the vent scene he's shep's hallucination due to the guilt that she/he cant save everyone. Which also explains why the catalyst in the form of the child. He was a image that infested shep's mind with guilt causing him/her to see the child in dreams and hallucinations.
4. And finally the ending with the old man and child, i feel like its a message from bioware to the players, 'tell me another story about the Shepard' 'Its getting late but ok, one more story.' - its like saying its late but more of the story is on its way.

phew that was long i really hope the dream theory is true, because the endings scrambled my brain and took me a 3 hour long bath to finally regain my sanity. But after lying down to clear my head and thinking it all through these parts of the game stood out. And i begin to see some possible hidden meanings. That or i am going mad and digging too much into the game xD (well lets hope not)

[Earthborn_Shepard]

Good to see bioware getting a bit more explicit, but kinda annoying how you think you've found something great and already 5 people posted it lol

[Scottish_highlander]

ceruleancrescent wrote...

Outlaw704 wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

Anyone else think that the whole indoctrination thing is creepy as ****? I think I'm gonna have a nightmare about it tonight. Also this makes the "ending" ****ing scary, not sure if I could play it again, constantly thinking of how this is all just a horror vision.

I've been having problems sleeping the past couple of nights lol

For the past week I've been having dreams about Mass Effect, the first few nights were random, pleasant dreams, the last few nights have taken on a more ominous, dreary feeling...

Oh god! The Indoctrination is upon us!

[Falar]

[ceruleancrescent]

DvkZ2 wrote...

@masseffect Are you holding something back, that could quell the large amount of frustration from the community, a tiny hint would be enough
Mass Effect Mass Effect ‏ @masseffect

Close

@jakefinn94 Mike Gamble already said on his twitter, if the fans knew what was in store, the reaction would be different.

Okay... now THIS is clear as water! (i think.. )

[jijeebo]

Jake Finn ‏ @JakeFinn94

· Open

"@masseffect Are you holding something back, that could quell the large amount of frustration from the community, a tiny hint would be enough"

The reply:

"@jakefinn94 Mike Gamble already said on his twitter, if the fans knew what was in store, the reaction would be different."

I am hopeful.

edit:
ninja'd I really shouldn't try and keep up with this thread whilst playing pokemon yellow.

Modifié par jijeebo, 13 mars 2012 - 09:57 .

[balance5050]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

Remember that the Reaper influences were only present when Shepard was asleep or heavily injured. Sure, it sounds like f'n Harry Potter, but it makes sense that the weaker your state of mind, the more influence there is. Grayson was able to resist the Reapers, despite having implants, until his mind was compromised by red sand. Benezia was already selling into Saren's ideology until it was too late and the Reaper's had already taken hold. Saren and TIMs goals were malleable to the Reapers.

This is not the case with Shepard. Shepard's ideology is to destroy the Reapers. No compromise. No excuses. It's them or us. This mental block to the Reaper's is not one they can overcome through slight subterfuge on a conscience and strong Shepard.

So while the nightmare's may indicate a process of indoctrination, the Reapers had no hold on Shepard while awake and in a strong mental condition. The VI would not, therefore, be able to detect an indoctrination, as none was present.

This.... basically Shep wasn't indoctrinated yet and hence the VI couldn't detect it..