57139 réponses à ce sujet

[k8ee]

rogueagent6 wrote...

Polat995 wrote...

Well, Paul Grayson in book become more susceptible the Reaper indoctrination because of Red Sand. Could stress make us like him?

If you listen to the test results in sanctuary they do talk about using red sand initially, but switch to adrenaline and it alien equivalent because it works much better.

How often do you think you are under adrenaline's affects throughout the series?

Food for thought...

ooooohhh good point

[humes spork]

lookingglassmind wrote...

Yes! And especially at the end, where there is a direct threat to Shepard's life -- s/he has bodily injuries that look close to fatal. Imagine the stress hormones that must be pumping just to keep his/her vital signs stable enough to get him to Harbinger... a whole bunch of adrenaline.

Oh, yeah.

Jeez, now that people are talking about it the foreshadowing and evidence for the Indoctrination thing is just skyrocketing.

[lookingglassmind]

humes spork wrote...

Though on the other hand, if there's an Indoctrination device onboard the Normandy, surely to god EDI would have been able to detect infrasonic transmissions on the ship.

Well, maybe. Or maybe not. If EDI had Reaper code within her, she may not have been able to recognize it on the Normandy. Or, to take into a darker direction, if she was indoctrinated herself, then the theory can also be made to work.

[Sajuro]

humes spork wrote...

lookingglassmind wrote...

Hmm. I'm trying to think what some of the crew responses to EDI were when she first arrived in ME2, and when she put herself into Dr. Eva's body in ME3... wonder if there is anything hinted at in the dialogue there about this.

I don't think there was anything suspicious regarding EDI, but on the other hand when she took over Eva's body and got to the point she was personally interacting with the crew she was acting really oddly with Shepard, with her nonstop probing questions.

Though on the other hand, if there's an Indoctrination device onboard the Normandy, surely to god EDI would have been able to detect infrasonic transmissions on the ship.

Unless the ship has sensors for that I don't think she would pick up on it if it wasn't connected to the ship systems.
Also if there was an indoctrination device, it could have been meant for Anderson since the Normandy was supposed to be his mobile command center.

[FugitiveMind]

rogueagent6 wrote...

Polat995 wrote...

Well, Paul Grayson in book become more susceptible the Reaper indoctrination because of Red Sand. Could stress make us like him?

If you listen to the test results in sanctuary they do talk about using red sand initially, but switch to adrenaline and it alien equivalent because it works much better.

How often do you think you are under adrenaline's affects throughout the series?

Food for thought...

Between all of the battles, heated arguements and horizontal mambo going on?

I think you'd have an easier time listing when adrenaline ISN'T in effect during this game

[omgBAMF]

Going along the lines of everything in the citadel being a representation of Shepard's past, did anyone else think that the "chasm" Anderson speaks of looks similar to the Shadow Broker's engine room (with the giant electrified plates moving up and down)?

It's a stretch, for sure, but it was one of my first thoughts when seeing the room.

[Erikwrestledabearonce]

Also, didn't the chasm right before the staircase up to Anderson in the citadel look exactly like the engines in the Shadow Broker base?

[Rob8228]

KingNothing125 wrote...

I also hope so.

In fact, if they release a DLC where Shep wakes up after being shot by Harbinger, and miraculously he and his squad are OK, and you go up to the citadel for a real ending without some Space God Child, I will rejoice and gladly pay money for it.

I will give them money squared.

[FugitiveMind]

well with 2 identical concurrent posts from 2 different people about the Shadow Broker chasm, I guess the answer is yes

[omgBAMF]

haha, Erikwrestledabearonce thought the same thing at the same time...

[lookingglassmind]

Erik! BAMF!

LOL! That was... hilariously epic.

[Archeron Smith]

well this thread has certainly helped rekindle some hope within me.

i agree with a lot of the other posters, this ending really wasn't indicative of Bioware's ability to wow (except with disappointment) and a lot of things didn't make sense like the unlimited ammo, the change of clothes etc.

[Erikwrestledabearonce]

Holy ****....

[k8ee]

Yeah I wondered about that chasm... seemed so odd. Unless Anderson was just trying to convince Shep he had just passed by there, to which she asks him to not get too far ahead.

[humes spork]

lookingglassmind wrote...

Well, maybe. Or maybe not. If EDI had Reaper code within her, she may not have been able to recognize it on the Normandy. Or, to take into a darker direction, if she was indoctrinated herself, then the theory can also be made to work.

Possibly, but the EDI thing is still a big plothole.

Sajuro wrote...

Unless the ship has sensors for that I don't think she would pick up on it if it wasn't connected to the ship systems.
Also if there was an indoctrination device, it could have been meant for Anderson since the Normandy was supposed to be his mobile command center.

 
Well, considering at this point in ME's timeline they had at least the infrasound portion of Indoctrination nailed down, they'd be fools to not have microphones that can detect infrasound on Alliance vessels. Especially flagships, such as what the Normandy was being refitted to be.

And yeah, it could have been, but Shep's a bigger score on the Indoctrin-O-meter than Anderson. Pure serendipity...for the Reapers.

[Sajuro]

omgBAMF wrote...

haha, Erikwrestledabearonce thought the same thing at the same time...

Indoctrination!

[Bacusan]

Mmmhh not sure this would happen. In what form are we expected to play the game After the hallucination passes?
A free DLC? a paid DLC?
what's the deal of having the ending in a separate package. It would be like going to a restaurant ordering all your favorite food and getting onle bread to eat.
As with everyone else, I sure hope you guys are right and I'm wrong -because those lousy endings should be fixed- but I don't see it really happening

[Ormeriel]

The hallucination theory is actually the only way to explains every plotholes or inconsistency:

- Why is everyone in the normandy in the end? Including the people that supposedly "died" with you

- Why is shepard without his armor in the citadel? But is with his armor in the post credits video where he breathes

- Why does those rubbles in the post credits video looks like earth rubbles and not high tech/citadel rubble?

- Why is TIM here? How did he even arrive in the Citadel in the first place?

- Why is Anderson mentioning that "the citadel layout is changing", like in a dream maybe?

- Why are all the corpses of human lying around? That's not the reapers way, if they take them to harvest them they would be nicely put in coffins or tubes or whatever, waiting to be processed

- Why does shepard gun suddenly have infinite ammo? Like in a dream?

- And the weirdest thing of all: Why does "The Catalyst" looks exactly like the kid that dies at the beginning and is haunting Shepard dream/nightmare? Maybe because it is ANOTHER dream/Nightmare.

I could go on, because there is a LOT of small details that just feels wrong or out of place, like in a dream or the reapers going all Inception on us.

Modifié par Ormeriel, 11 mars 2012 - 04:06 .

[Sajuro]

humes spork wrote...

lookingglassmind wrote...

Well, maybe. Or maybe not. If EDI had Reaper code within her, she may not have been able to recognize it on the Normandy. Or, to take into a darker direction, if she was indoctrinated herself, then the theory can also be made to work.

Possibly, but the EDI thing is still a big plothole.

Sajuro wrote...

Unless the ship has sensors for that I don't think she would pick up on it if it wasn't connected to the ship systems.
Also if there was an indoctrination device, it could have been meant for Anderson since the Normandy was supposed to be his mobile command center.

 
Well, considering at this point in ME's timeline they had at least the infrasound portion of Indoctrination nailed down, they'd be fools to not have microphones that can detect infrasound on Alliance vessels. Especially flagships, such as what the Normandy was being refitted to be.

And yeah, it could have been, but Shep's a bigger score on the Indoctrin-O-meter than Anderson. Pure serendipity...for the Reapers.

Then they could be rigged to give false positives? Or maybe those were going in the day after the Reapers attacked, or the Alliance are a bunch of fools.

[littleork]

Bacusan wrote...

Mmmhh not sure this would happen. In what form are we expected to play the game After the hallucination passes?
A free DLC? a paid DLC?
what's the deal of having the ending in a separate package. It would be like going to a restaurant ordering all your favorite food and getting onle bread to eat.
As with everyone else, I sure hope you guys are right and I'm wrong -because those lousy endings should be fixed- but I don't see it really happening

I doubt they would give it for free, but if we pay, i think the dlc is gonna be long, at least i would hope so, if shep wake up and get 10-15 hours of play to defeat the reaper for good, it wouldnt be that bad.

[lookingglassmind]

Bacusan wrote...

Mmmhh not sure this would happen. In what form are we expected to play the game After the hallucination passes?
A free DLC? a paid DLC?
what's the deal of having the ending in a separate package. It would be like going to a restaurant ordering all your favorite food and getting onle bread to eat.
As with everyone else, I sure hope you guys are right and I'm wrong -because those lousy endings should be fixed- but I don't see it really happening

Well, Jess M. from BioWare has been quoted as saying that the community may have reacted without knowing all of the facts, so... I am hopeful.

[krystalevenstar]

lookingglassmind wrote...

humes spork wrote...

Though on the other hand, if there's an Indoctrination device onboard the Normandy, surely to god EDI would have been able to detect infrasonic transmissions on the ship.

Well, maybe. Or maybe not. If EDI had Reaper code within her, she may not have been able to recognize it on the Normandy. Or, to take into a darker direction, if she was indoctrinated herself, then the theory can also be made to work.

Maybe EVA, the body EDI inhabits, is the Reaper tech. Maybe TIM specifically knows that Shepard will intercept EVA on Mars and uses that to 'plant' her on the Normandy, silently indoctrinating throughout the game. I know when she ran at Shep after attacking Kaiden that she sure looked husk-like. Plus the comments from Vega would be after her body was on the ship...

Edit: One of the consoles in the Cerberus HQ talks about Eva's construction, but I can't remember any real details about it.

Modifié par krystalevenstar, 11 mars 2012 - 04:09 .

[prizm123]

personally i think Shepard died with Anderson after killing TIM, the Crucible worked, but we dont know how, and everything after the conversation with Anderson was a life passing before your eyes moment

it would explain how everyone is on the Normandy too, even the ones with Shepard in London (who i believe are also dead after the Reaper landed as they were heading towards the beam)

[rogueagent6]

Archeron Smith wrote...

well this thread has certainly helped rekindle some hope within me.

i agree with a lot of the other posters, this ending really wasn't indicative of Bioware's ability to wow (except with disappointment) and a lot of things didn't make sense like the unlimited ammo, the change of clothes etc.

As with me.

It would still irk me to no end if this was because they were rushed and/or decided they wanted to streach the series out after having said it was always intended to be a trilogy. Having said that, I will still give them my money to get the ending I intended for myself, because in the end I am Shepard while playing the game. I have laughed, I have cried, and I have fallen in love with the characters and universe, as all of you have. The current endings as they stand do the story no justice.

[Hanabii]

I am of the Hallucination theory you may have seen gabbed on about in other threads.

The whole game Commander Shepard was getting more and more stressed, as time went on she became less and less 'human'. In a way.

When you first get onto the Citadel it feels like a dream. You're crawling through a hallway of your own dead. Mysteriously faced with the Illusive man with no hint at how he got there. When he commands you, you put a bullet in Anderson and are using all your might to resist.

The bodies are like the phantoms in her dreams that she'd been having. They didn't seem real. Her mental state is weakened by blood loss, consistent exposure to indoctrination. They might not have even been real.

Let's use other examples of other people who'd felt it.

Saren said Indoctrination was subtle and crafty. The Illusive Man didn't even know he was indoctrinated unless you Paragon'd the HELL out of him. Rana Thanoptist (Get out of here before I blow up Vermire Girl.) who had a weak mind committed suicide after even her relatively small exposure compared to Shepard. Shialla (Green Girl) was only freed from it by the effects of the Thorien and was Mindlinked to the Feros Collenists who made a suprising effective force. I believe Shialla's mind-link allowed other's minds to stabilize and counter re-indoctrination, that and the exposure to the Thorian's mind.

Shepard in the dream chases the kid, a dream that started as Post Traumatic Stress from watching a kid die, a cross of guilt to bare. But as the game went on Shepard kept being exposed to the Reapers more and more and more, destroying them, getting close. Others even with no reapers around were getting taken over and killing each other.

In the dark dream Shepard is warned, as she runs chasing the phantom she sees herself hugging the child, smiling creepily as they both burn, a forewarning of what lies ahead. That the reapers are riding on an image of her guilt as 'The Catalyst' of her indoctrination.

"Good Endings." -
Finally Shepard stands at the end face to face with her nightmarish guilt. Having made it so far only through the will to beat the reapers. She is offered three choices by the Catalyst.

One is to Control the Reapers, to become them. However as I was hinted, she is indoctrinated herself in the final throws. This destroys the Mass Relays and causes the reapers to withdraw.

Second is the Biomerge of Technology using her as the Palate. Everyone in the universe is made into a Cyborg. Including Synthetics who are Augmented with organic. The Reapers Withdraw.

The Last is to carry on strong, We win or we die! You destroy the reapers once and for all. However the cost will be the death of the Geth (Who would willingly make the sacrifice to save organics if you persuaded them.) and EDI (Who was always ready to die to help Shepard.)

The Catch 22.
I theorize the Catalyst ISN'T what it seems. It the Catalyst of Shepard's Indoctrination. That in each ending Shepard does not die a true death.

Ending 1 and 2, Shepard's mind is overthrown, Shepard is indoctrinated and is now controlled, Shepard thinks (S)he is dead. Now a tool of the reapers who is still alive. The Mass Relays are gone, but the reapers are infinitely patient and truly unknowable.

The Illusive Man's path of control means Shepard didn't stop the reapers and now the universe is stuck without the Mass Relays and the reapers are infinitely patient.

The Biomerge Path, means all life has been given the ideal form for indoctrination of all. Shepard's indoctrinated energy is in all life, organic or not. And the reapers are a part of everyone now. Allowing them to begin a mass indoctrination beyond scale.

The Destruction Path, Shepard destroys the reapers. Overcoming the indoctrination. Waking up amidst the rubble on earth. (Shep is a sturdy SOB to take so much damage.) The Indoctrination attempt failed Shepard's conviction held through to the end and even in an unstable condition Shepard was able to hold to "We fight or we die."

Both other endings Shepard stops fighting and sees Her/Himself die. Stop fighting and die.
However is Shepard dead? Or is Shepard walking indoctrinated while the true ending is under design?

"The Bad Ending" -
Shepard quickly before everyone is ready, before the Crucible is perfected rushes to fight the reapers. The Crucible is incapable of the Technomerge and Outright Indoctrinating Shepard isn't an option.

With some Resistance left (Due to shorter exposure time) Shepard destroys the reapers, the unfinished Crucible destroys the planet, the reapers, everyone on earth and Shepard. Shepard never gave into the Indoctrination and was too strong at the time to ever do so. Too much resistance left.

---
The Joker Vision

A final glimpse at what is going on, Joker crashing down somewhere. Is it a vision to placate Shepard? Is Joker lost and stranded with a need to be picked up?

The Reapers died, but so did the earth.

---

The Possible Future.
"Can you tell me another story about the Shepherd?"

At some point Shepard is required, if (s)he is indoctrinated (Blue/Green) Ending. She awakens to learn the reapers are still out there. That doom is still upon them. And that through the sacrifices of others His/Her indoctrination was broken.

If Shepard destroyed the Reapers, Shepard awakens. Having destroyed the Reapers and fought off the Indoctrination. The Reaper Tech is gone. However Shepard is alive. (Shepard is very largely Cyborg, grey muscles, wires, AKA Lazarus Project Cyborg.) Meaning that the Geth also possibly survived.

The new Mission Either way involves coping with the change to the universe. Tracking down the lost. Picking up the peaces and building a new path.

"I need to find my people.", "I need to know that (Love Interest) is okay." At your side you have your people. "I need to get the Quarian's Home." "Wrex's Family needs him." "The Asari need to return to Thessia."

"We are all together now, our enemy is gone, but we are stranded away from home. We need to rebuild, but we, all the people of this Galaxy, stand together to rebuild. We will do on our own what we always have. We will forge our own path."

Always remember it is a vast universe, there is still Dark Energy out there. There is still many enemies waiting in the universe. What new threats await when the Mass Relays aren't around to guide you?