57139 réponses à ce sujet

[camcon2100]

PDesign wrote...

Why do you people think the kid was a hallucination? Why just reapers can't use his appearance from Shepard's dreams?

This pic proves that kid is real

Exactally people used this picture to prove the kid isn't a side effect. I believe he was real up until the vent scene. Harbinger is toying with our emotions

[Killer3000ad]

Rifneno wrote...

I know the subject of the eyes has been brought up a lot.  But I've talked to quite a few people who don't see it, or don't think they're really what we think they are.  So I got some screenshots and when necessary magnified them so you can see them better.


That's the Illusive Man's eye in ME2. Note the pattern: an inner circle, an outer circle, and two orb shapes on the bottom left and right.


This is Saren's eye in ME1 right before he ragequits existence. It's different, but similar in a way. A large glowing center, an inner ring, a much smaller outer ring, and some wavy designs coming out of them.


This is Shepard's eye right after his face turned black in the control ending. This is the exact same pattern as the Illusive Man's. The only difference is the color. Which is similar to Saren's. I'll also note that the rest of the scene he seemed to be in immense pain as he's gripping the handles. After he turns like this, he simply looks deadpan and emotionless.


This is Shepard's eye during the synthesis ending. He's further from the camera and a lot of the time it's distorted by the green pulses, but this is still a clear enough shot to tell, without a doubt, that he has the same eyes here as in control.

Hopefully this helps convince someone that doesn't believe the eye evidence, which I personally consider to be the strongest evidence of the indoctrination theory.

You win the day ser!

[oh_saki]

De1ta G wrote...

PDesign wrote...

Why do you people think the kid was a hallucination? Why just reapers can't use his appearance from Shepard's dreams?

This pic proves that kid is real

That pic only proves that they put a picture of that kid on that wall

They meant that a lot of people thought that Shepard was imagining that the kid was real since nobody else seems to have acknowledged the kid at all. However, since the picture is up on the wall it proves that the kid was real and not part of Shepard's imagination. Unless Shepard is imagining the picture too.

[IronSabbath88]

To think that the Reapers are controlled by some being is absurd to me. Someone mentioned earlier that they're far too prideful for that kind of crap.

The kid saying "we" doesn't help things either. Why not "I"? Isn't the catalyst a single being?

Bah. If this theory isn't true then it really is a crappy ending.

[De1ta G]

PDesign wrote...

De1ta G wrote...

That pic only proves that they put a picture of that kid on that wall

"Last seen on Earth" - coincidence?

Just a nother way to trick the player

[TSgt_ShaneV]

Getorex wrote...

I like the idea that it was all a hallucination (a "Dallas" style dream? Ack!) and that it was an artsy-fartsy way to have the player experience "indoctrination". However, it is foolish if this is the case. Clearly. Being obtuse, being LSD, being inchoate is a BAD IDEA. At best only a small few will "get it" while the rest will be at a loss, left with a foul taste in their mouth, pissed off, and turned off. Bad idea in reality, nice idea IN THEORY ONLY.

In theory, practice and theory should be the same but in practice it isn't. This idea of artsy-fartsy 4-dimensional chess by Bioware is also the normal and initial response from the lost and bewildered. "Surely they didn't mean what it looked like they meant? Surely they were writing on a 'higher level' and we mere mortals have been slow to appreciate or grasp it? Surely?" I tend to Occam's razor. Rarely fails. Now they MAY have been going for a meta-experience of indoctrination (or not) for the player but, sorry, the actual mechanics of the attempt fall flat. If they are only wanting to please a fraction of a percent of the player base, then it's a win. A fraction of a percent will "get it" and appreciate it. Or Occam's Razor suggests they ****ed up.  Went for EA-style cash and ****ed the ending so they could suck more cash out of players seeking a rational ending. 

Going artsy-fartsy and "meta" is a fool's errand.  The vast majority of players are people out to play a good game and experience a good story and don't want nor expect artsy-fartsy meta-crap. They invested time and imagination and cash) in the game series and are emotionally invested in their character and their character's 'relationships'.  That all gets the porcelein throne treatment in the end.  Save the Rachni from absolute extinction?  Meh.  Save Rex and thus help bring the Krogan to a good future?  Bah.  Choose Ash?  Choose Liara?  Choose Tali?  Pffffttt!  Kill the Quarians and save the Geth?  Who cares?!  Save the Quarians and wipe the Geth?  Bupkis!  Save them both, end their silly war, and give the Quarians their homeworld back?  Pshaw!  None of that **** counts for...well ****. 

I got your "meta" right here! In my pants. Munch on that meta.

A little on this, bear with me

Those players that are invested in the series and/or universe, from the first game/books/graphic novels/and even fanfic I think are somehow someway "connect" to Bioware, either through Forums, Facebook, Twitter, etc.. and are the vocal Majority displease with the events of the ending.

Other players (the pick up and play type for a better term than casuals) aren't as invested in the series and aren't as invested in the ME lore. They just want to play a good game, and get some achievements. This group are the ones that are genuinely happy with the game.

Based off of these opinions that I have, for Bioware to pull a "Troll" move by holding back the end to unlock later would not really harm them. The pick up and play types won't care either way and those invested players that were upset enough to "leave" would get wind of the change and come right back with the mentality that all is forgiven, as they are still "connected" to Bioware.

Would this cause some kind of uproar...yea. Is it a ballsy move..yea, would they be written in gaming history as the ultimate Troller...yea. Would they lose Fans or their Fan-base? I don't think so, because those of us that care enough to be upset at the current end state are invested in the series and universe enough to be hanging on Biowares' every word. And if the end changed we would find out right away and be satisfied.

So I think that they could get away with this unscathed and actually pull this off brilliantly.

On the other hand, if left as is, would further damage their reputation and definitely lose some fans and fan-base.  Could it hurt them enough to effect future sales of products? Could they recover? Maybe, but it would take a lot of work and is really risky. More so than holding back the ending to do something ballsy and unique.

Anyway that's my .02 $

[balance5050]

DHR107 wrote...

De1ta G wrote...

PDesign wrote...

Why do you people think the kid was a hallucination? Why just reapers can't use his appearance from Shepard's dreams?

This pic proves that kid is real

That pic only proves that they put a picture of that kid on that wall

Could just be imagining the picture as well...

Even though I believe the kid was never human, he could have been an actual kid in the beginning, doesn't really matter as it doesn't affect the theory.

[Mythosaeon]

FFZero wrote...

Just thought I’d add a little something to this awesome thread. Correct me if I’m wrong but I think I remember reading in the codex that people who are indoctrinated or in the process of becoming indoctrinated can be unaware of their actions. In the mission to save Eve/Bakara on Sur’kesh Mordin believes someone in STG may be indoctrinated since cerberus arrived so quickly. I can’t remember if we found out who it was that leaked the information but what if it was Shep?

Yeah, but if we start going that route - maybe Saren tricked Shepard into becoming indoctrinated by Sovereign and he's been held there ever since.  All of the rest of Mass Effect 1, 2 and 3 have been a hallucination.  Mass Effect 4 goes back to shep being rescued and it starts all over again?

[Sajuro]

PDesign wrote...

Why do you people think the kid was a hallucination? Why just reapers can't use his appearance from Shepard's dreams?

This pic proves that kid is real

Shepard's eyes aren't his originals, the Reapers are hacking his eyes.
Or the kid was a real person but he was never in the vents and died in the initial attack.

[Reaper of Reapers]

Obidex wrote...

Not sure if it is anything, but when you get up from Harbinger's boom laser you can shoot the soldier reaching out to you in the head..end his suffering. No where else is friendly fire possible...just something i noticed.

Does anyone have a video of this? If not would someone be kind enough to provide one? Thanks in advance.

[Nalerenn]

DHR107 wrote...

De1ta G wrote...

PDesign wrote...

Why do you people think the kid was a hallucination? Why just reapers can't use his appearance from Shepard's dreams?

This pic proves that kid is real

That pic only proves that they put a picture of that kid on that wall

Could just be imagining the picture as well...

Also, unless I'm mistaken, that's beta Shepard in the white armor there. Listed as 'John', too...

[camcon2100]

All the picture proves is the kid did exist before, doesn't mean Harbinger isn't using it as fuel for shepards mind!

[jspiess]

balance5050 wrote...

You guys need to see this, Bioware employee pointing customer to a thread that SUPPORTS indoctrination theory.

http://social.biowar...ex/9872108&lf=8

could be something, but probably trying to just clean forums up

[Raptr569]

 All I'm saying is that it better be a hallucination.

The ending was absolute garbage, we're bioware too afraid of I dunno, reapers die and everyone lives happily ever after?

I feel like I wasted my time playing this for such an unfulfilling ending.

[balance5050]

I agree with TSgt_ShaneV, this whole puzzle was meant for long time fans/people who are passionate about the lore.

Modifié par balance5050, 14 mars 2012 - 12:55 .

[iwillkillfortali]

PDesign wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Or the kid was a real person but he was never in the vents and died in the initial attack.

He was

Maybe he died when the building blew up from the laser cannon.

[GreatBandit]

oh_saki wrote...

De1ta G wrote...

PDesign wrote...

Why do you people think the kid was a hallucination? Why just reapers can't use his appearance from Shepard's dreams?

This pic proves that kid is real

That pic only proves that they put a picture of that kid on that wall

They meant that a lot of people thought that Shepard was imagining that the kid was real since nobody else seems to have acknowledged the kid at all. However, since the picture is up on the wall it proves that the kid was real and not part of Shepard's imagination. Unless Shepard is imagining the picture too.

Maybe! Just maybe the child was real to begin with in the opening scene when he is playing with the Normandy figure? Then after that he goes missing and the reapers use the kid from (whos in sheps memories now) as a way to try and sway shepard however they want. He could be real to begin with and not so real afterwards.

Modifié par GreatBandit, 14 mars 2012 - 12:58 .

[De1ta G]

PDesign wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Or the kid was a real person but he was never in the vents and died in the initial attack.

He was

I'm guessing he used green space magic to get through that door...

[Abdul_777]

Abdul_777 wrote...

blooregard wrote...

Abdul_777 wrote...

guys,i dont know if its a bug or not but i alt tabbed to check something (related to a gfx bug i had) at the part where youre talking with the prothean VI at cerberus base,after tim goes away stating you shouldnt overstay your welcome.
When i came back,there was no music and theres constant speaking in the background,it sounds like speech being rewinded from different people,maybe a stretch but i can hear some words with similar tone to harbringer also,anyhow feel free to check it yourselves,just let it idle at a choice

if this is true it may prove that shepard was already in the process of being indoctronated by the time he got to the cerberus base after all TIM did have the prothean VI hacked so he could get the information perhaps shepard was reaching the noticable levels of indoctronation by that point but the prothean VI's indoctronation sensor was disabled and thus couldn't tell he was indoctronated

Yea thats what i was thinking,those sounds align with the codex stuff as well,hearing many "alien" voices.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-CiFHqKD4qE#t=2365s you can hear those voices at 39:30-32ish,bear in mind those voices can be still heard even if the VI is not speaking so its not likely to be "interference".

edit: or maybe it is interference and its just wishful thinking on my part, i should just go to sleep:lol:

Modifié par Abdul_777, 14 mars 2012 - 01:01 .

[CommanderSmacker]

iwillkillfortali wrote...

PDesign wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Or the kid was a real person but he was never in the vents and died in the initial attack.

He was

Maybe he died when the building blew up from the laser cannon.

And how did he get there in the first place?

[mdp310]

DHR107 wrote...

De1ta G wrote...

PDesign wrote...

Why do you people think the kid was a hallucination? Why just reapers can't use his appearance from Shepard's dreams?

This pic proves that kid is real

That pic only proves that they put a picture of that kid on that wall

Could just be imagining the picture as well...

Ehhh...It's hard to tell if that's THE kid.

[Ona Demonie]

Not sure if pointed out, but:

Shepard is the Catalyst. The Starchild says he himself is the catalyst... yet when he talks about the new choices, he can't pick. So he lied/contradicted himself. Its a paradox. "I'm the catalyst! But I can't do anything...". Shepard is the one who does the doing, so he's the catalyst.

[Sharkey1337]

PDesign wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Or the kid was a real person but he was never in the vents and died in the initial attack.

He was

WOW, I never saw the kid at that point! No way he could've survived that blast from the Reaper...right???

[theratking]

I am an idiot. Discount everything i said about singularity