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[CommanderSmacker]

Ecmoose wrote...

PDesign wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Or the kid was a real person but he was never in the vents and died in the initial attack.

He was

Except there's no way he could have survived the attack that blows the building up in the next few seconds. The vent he's in
1) Has an "Electrified do not touch" sign next to it
2) Is in direct line of sight with the Reaper laser beam that destroys the building.

Yet the kid is unscathed.

Maybe he ran into the building, but anytime after that he's just a hallucination.

So when he says "You can't help me." LoL because he's dead at that point

[Mr. Mistake]

I think what the Normandy is actually trying to outrun is the expansion of this thread.

[GBGriffin]

thePredator50 wrote...

http://www.gameranx....ies-conclusion/

Is it all for naught?

"Dark Energy was on the table at one point," he wrote on Twitter, "but the original idea for the ending was all about Reapers and Mass Relays." 

On the table? Tali's loyalty mission was based around it. It made it into the game o_O

Anyways, like I said, I'm waiting for an "official" response from BioWare. I just really wish they'd hurry up.

[De1ta G]

If we are right about this indoctrination theory and it being planned from the beginning... isn't that Retake Mass Effect 3 movement that's, supposedly making history, very unnecessary since they already have a better ending .

Modifié par De1ta G, 14 mars 2012 - 01:14 .

[Richard STIHL]

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9898241 its confirmed


rejoice brothers and sisters

[zombitologist]

 I just read the post of someone else explaining this theory and I hope to God it's true. I'll be the first to officially apologize to Bioware if it is. I don't care that the ending would be sold separately it makes a hell of a lot more sense than what I saw. At the very least I have soemthing to believe in again.

[Abram730]

I'd like to run into commander shepard in ME4, impaling people on spikes.. talking about how he is saving the universe by making organic synthetic hybrids.

I think I chose poorly lol.. I can't wait

I will have 3 saves

Modifié par Abram730, 14 mars 2012 - 01:19 .

[Wanny1]

Anyone else notice how often we see the word indoctrination/indoctrinated in the dialogs or descriptions... I don't remember it being so obvious in previous games. Kinda like bioware want to "indoctrinate" ourselves by showing it all the way through the game.

[Darksaber2]

The only thing I have to add to this raging discussion (sorry if this was covered in the last 390some pages) is that during the events of the finale, once the ending has begun, you have unlimited ammunition. This is somewhat of a departure from the norm. You can fire the pistol you have until you are blue in the face and you'll never be forced to reload, never run out of ammo. Some might say that it's because you need the gun, but it's not like you couldn't spread some ammunition around, there's plenty of human soldier bodies.

Really even aside from the eye, it's the biggest thing from my POV that shows that the entire thing is a fabrication.

[BlackDragonBane]

For those who wish to debate the indoctrination theory in a neutral and controlled environment and away from all the chaos that has tainted this thread. Myself and many other theorists have migrated to a new location and if you'd like to join us, PM me so I cam direct you to our new home.

[Golferguy758]

I would also like to point out about the kid at the beginning there is no way for him to get onto that balcony. There is no ladder that leads up to that floor.

But the animation for the kid appearing is that of him climbing up. So unless the kid is a young Peter Parker he can't be there.

[Teutonic Knight]

I actually thought the star kid was Harbinger just taking the form of someone Shepherd could be empathic with. This was Harbinger’s chance to finally indoctrinate Shepherd, remember in Mass Effect 2 how he constantly tells to preserve your body? Two of the choices given to Shepherd story could give him/her the illusion that they will either control the reapers or unite the galaxy. For me I thought of Saren and wondered if these similar choices were offer to him by Sovereign. The destroy option is not one Harbinger brings into this intentionally, but is created by Shepherd's resolve to destroy the Reapers. Knowing this, Harbinger gives the illusion that destroying the reapers would leave the future in a darkness and chaos. Thus he tries to sway Shepherd from doing what must be done and keep Shepherd from seeing through the truth. If a person chooses synthesis or control the truth is that the reapers control you and use you to continue the cycle. If a person chose to destroy the reapers, in truth you break Harbinger’s attempt to control you and free yourself to finish the fight. At least that what I though would happen and my logic.

Now what is the deal with Anderson and the Illusive Man? I took this as another ruse by Harbinger to present Shepherd with the idea that everything that was happening was believable. After all it was seen as Cerberus had been helping the reapers and who's to say the Illusive Man had not been indoctrinated. This would have been easy for Shepherd to believe and it would be easy for he/her to see the Illusive Man hindering their progress with the Crucible. If Harbinger did not present this, and simply offered Shepherd the three choices it would seem to obvious that something is up. I've read that the battle is regarding the “good” and “bad” angels and I can see that. I actually saw this a bit differently. I saw it as Shepherd’s sub-conscious dealing with destroying the reapers, represented by Anderson, but having a a very small minute part of his/her mind wanting to control the power of the reapers, represented by the Illusive Man. Let's face it no matter how good a person is or can be, if presented with a choice to be given ultimate power, we would , consciously or unconsciously, think about accepting the offer no matter what the consequences would be from gaining it.

Ultimately I hate the ending because there is no epilogue and I am still wondering what happen after this “supposed” destruction of the reapers possibly. And ,personally, I wanted Shepherd to live but I believe it should be a choice and not forced on people. In the way like in Mass Effect 2 where Shepherd could die or live.

[thePredator50]

Richard STIHL wrote...

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9898241 its confirmed


rejoice brothers and sisters

Nearly had a heart attack.

[De1ta G]

thePredator50 wrote...

Richard STIHL wrote...

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9898241 its confirmed


rejoice brothers and sisters

Nearly had a heart attack.

They won't confirm or deny anything until the game has been released world wide

[Icinix]

Point of interest: ChipIn just cracked the 10g mark....amazing.

[Ona Demonie]

De1ta G wrote...

Ona Demonie wrote...

Not sure if pointed out, but:

Shepard is the Catalyst. The Starchild says he himself is the catalyst... yet when he talks about the new choices, he can't pick. So he lied/contradicted himself. Its a paradox. "I'm the catalyst! But I can't do anything...". Shepard is the one who does the doing, so he's the catalyst.

Thus! Why Harbringer needs Shepard alive.

Bingo. Harbinger/Starchild isn't the Catalyst, yet hopes to persuade Shepard into choosing Control or Synthesis. He can't force Shepard; he's tried and is failing. His final last ditch effort is calm persuasion and reason.

[FryinHard]

Darksaber2 wrote...

The only thing I have to add to this raging discussion (sorry if this was covered in the last 390some pages) is that during the events of the finale, once the ending has begun, you have unlimited ammunition. This is somewhat of a departure from the norm. You can fire the pistol you have until you are blue in the face and you'll never be forced to reload, never run out of ammo. Some might say that it's because you need the gun, but it's not like you couldn't spread some ammunition around, there's plenty of human soldier bodies.

Really even aside from the eye, it's the biggest thing from my POV that shows that the entire thing is a fabrication.

LOL about the gun… what bugs me is that a lot of you are up in arms about the gun having infinite ammo in the end(you can still reload though)… But think about that for a second. Especially if you have low war resources and only have one option in the end… which is shooting the exploding pipe/node/destruction.
Anyways, one thing being said is “I didn’t have a pistol equipped”. Well there are plenty of bodies to pick from on, and if your weapons got blasted off you… you’re going to need one cause guns solve problems. Either way, now you have this “MAGIC GUN”(lol) and it’s like that for a lot of reasons. What if you were an absolute terrible shot. Those 3 husks would be a serious problem. Not to mention that Turian Reaper at the end. He takes at least 2 shots, if you aim well. So that’s 5 bullets needed, right there.
Next it is said that the gun isn’t in your hands after being beamed up… So what? Shep fell down and picked it up again. He knows it, too, since as soon as he is able he is looking for it. Oh, but this one also has infinite ammo. Again… So what? Let’s say it’s the same gun and has already had 5 rounds through it from when you picked it up. I think it would make the next scene really hard to pull off if you spent the rest of your ammo shooting the Keepers on the walk up. Imagine when TIM made a move to shoot at you and you were like “oh no TIM not today”… click. click. Bam, he shoots you dead.
Would have been nice to have that “Magic gun” there.
Anyways, let’s say you talk TIM into suicide and save 1 bullet… You still need 1 to shoot Anderson. So that is 6 shots so far. Let’s say Shepard picks up a Carnifex that only has 9 shots in the mag. Which would make the final decision scene really difficult. Figure you go through the talks and pick “destroy”. You sashay on up to the area and are required to shoot the pipe to destroy it. You have 3 shots left. OH but it takes 4 shots to go boom.
You lose before you even get the ending where you lose. Not good. So in my opinion the gun with infinite ammo is a plot device to move the story along. Since if you didn’t have it, you could run out of ammo only to be stranded in the end with no way to end the game, or inevitably get killed by TIM when you can’t Renegade option shoot him. See what I’m saying. 

[Deltateam Elcor]

FryinHard wrote...

Darksaber2 wrote...

The only thing I have to add to this raging discussion (sorry if this was covered in the last 390some pages) is that during the events of the finale, once the ending has begun, you have unlimited ammunition. This is somewhat of a departure from the norm. You can fire the pistol you have until you are blue in the face and you'll never be forced to reload, never run out of ammo. Some might say that it's because you need the gun, but it's not like you couldn't spread some ammunition around, there's plenty of human soldier bodies.

Really even aside from the eye, it's the biggest thing from my POV that shows that the entire thing is a fabrication.

LOL about the gun… what bugs me is that a lot of you are up in arms about the gun having infinite ammo in the end(you can still reload though)… But think about that for a second. Especially if you have low war resources and only have one option in the end… which is shooting the exploding pipe/node/destruction.
Anyways, one thing being said is “I didn’t have a pistol equipped”. Well there are plenty of bodies to pick from on, and if your weapons got blasted off you… you’re going to need one cause guns solve problems. Either way, now you have this “MAGIC GUN”(lol) and it’s like that for a lot of reasons. What if you were an absolute terrible shot. Those 3 husks would be a serious problem. Not to mention that Turian Reaper at the end. He takes at least 2 shots, if you aim well. So that’s 5 bullets needed, right there.
Next it is said that the gun isn’t in your hands after being beamed up… So what? Shep fell down and picked it up again. He knows it, too, since as soon as he is able he is looking for it. Oh, but this one also has infinite ammo. Again… So what? Let’s say it’s the same gun and has already had 5 rounds through it from when you picked it up. I think it would make the next scene really hard to pull off if you spent the rest of your ammo shooting the Keepers on the walk up. Imagine when TIM made a move to shoot at you and you were like “oh no TIM not today”… click. click. Bam, he shoots you dead.
Would have been nice to have that “Magic gun” there.
Anyways, let’s say you talk TIM into suicide and save 1 bullet… You still need 1 to shoot Anderson. So that is 6 shots so far. Let’s say Shepard picks up a Carnifex that only has 9 shots in the mag. Which would make the final decision scene really difficult. Figure you go through the talks and pick “destroy”. You sashay on up to the area and are required to shoot the pipe to destroy it. You have 3 shots left. OH but it takes 4 shots to go boom.
You lose before you even get the ending where you lose. Not good. So in my opinion the gun with infinite ammo is a plot device to move the story along. Since if you didn’t have it, you could run out of ammo only to be stranded in the end with no way to end the game, or inevitably get killed by TIM when you can’t Renegade option shoot him. See what I’m saying. 

We realise that, doesnt take anything away from he idea though.

[Pyewacket]

Golferguy758 wrote...

De1ta G wrote...

PDesign wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Or the kid was a real person but he was never in the vents and died in the initial attack.

He was

I'm guessing he used green space magic to get through that door...

Door is locked until kid gets there, immediately unlocks for him, he runs in, and door immediately locks behind him less than a second later.

Also, how did that kid get on the ledge?

Ah HA!  Now that's interesting.  I'm so confused, y'all.

[FryinHard]

Deltateam Elcor wrote...

FryinHard wrote...

Darksaber2 wrote...

The only thing I have to add to this raging discussion (sorry if this was covered in the last 390some pages) is that during the events of the finale, once the ending has begun, you have unlimited ammunition. This is somewhat of a departure from the norm. You can fire the pistol you have until you are blue in the face and you'll never be forced to reload, never run out of ammo. Some might say that it's because you need the gun, but it's not like you couldn't spread some ammunition around, there's plenty of human soldier bodies.

Really even aside from the eye, it's the biggest thing from my POV that shows that the entire thing is a fabrication.

LOL about the gun… what bugs me is that a lot of you are up in arms about the gun having infinite ammo in the end(you can still reload though)… But think about that for a second. Especially if you have low war resources and only have one option in the end… which is shooting the exploding pipe/node/destruction.
Anyways, one thing being said is “I didn’t have a pistol equipped”. Well there are plenty of bodies to pick from on, and if your weapons got blasted off you… you’re going to need one cause guns solve problems. Either way, now you have this “MAGIC GUN”(lol) and it’s like that for a lot of reasons. What if you were an absolute terrible shot. Those 3 husks would be a serious problem. Not to mention that Turian Reaper at the end. He takes at least 2 shots, if you aim well. So that’s 5 bullets needed, right there.
Next it is said that the gun isn’t in your hands after being beamed up… So what? Shep fell down and picked it up again. He knows it, too, since as soon as he is able he is looking for it. Oh, but this one also has infinite ammo. Again… So what? Let’s say it’s the same gun and has already had 5 rounds through it from when you picked it up. I think it would make the next scene really hard to pull off if you spent the rest of your ammo shooting the Keepers on the walk up. Imagine when TIM made a move to shoot at you and you were like “oh no TIM not today”… click. click. Bam, he shoots you dead.
Would have been nice to have that “Magic gun” there.
Anyways, let’s say you talk TIM into suicide and save 1 bullet… You still need 1 to shoot Anderson. So that is 6 shots so far. Let’s say Shepard picks up a Carnifex that only has 9 shots in the mag. Which would make the final decision scene really difficult. Figure you go through the talks and pick “destroy”. You sashay on up to the area and are required to shoot the pipe to destroy it. You have 3 shots left. OH but it takes 4 shots to go boom.
You lose before you even get the ending where you lose. Not good. So in my opinion the gun with infinite ammo is a plot device to move the story along. Since if you didn’t have it, you could run out of ammo only to be stranded in the end with no way to end the game, or inevitably get killed by TIM when you can’t Renegade option shoot him. See what I’m saying. 

We realise that, doesnt take anything away from he idea though.

Not trying to disprove anything, just some things get way too much focus and blown out of proportion. In fact I whole heartedly subscribe to the possibility of the end being a near death experience, which determines Shepards resolve and is very important for the internal war that is raging inside Shepard’s mind. Another thing that happened to me that I’m surprised didn’t get more press by some here, was when you spoke with Joker immediately after the Legion Virtual Reality he make a really interesting comment. Says something along the lines of “well if you were convinced that was real how do you know everything you are experiencing outside of it is real. How do you know that all of this is not just some simulation and you are still hooked up in the Geth ship?” This was a really awesome point for him to bring up and made me think about it from then on… Hell there was also plenty of Reaper viruses hanging around in there, too. You never know.  

Modifié par FryinHard, 14 mars 2012 - 01:26 .

[Fledgey]

CommanderSmacker wrote...

Ecmoose wrote...

PDesign wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Or the kid was a real person but he was never in the vents and died in the initial attack.

He was

Except there's no way he could have survived the attack that blows the building up in the next few seconds. The vent he's in
1) Has an "Electrified do not touch" sign next to it
2) Is in direct line of sight with the Reaper laser beam that destroys the building.

Yet the kid is unscathed.

Maybe he ran into the building, but anytime after that he's just a hallucination.

So when he says "You can't help me." LoL because he's dead at that point

I just videoed this whole sequence in high def, guys. I'm uploading it now.

[NitrAce]

FryinHard wrote...

Darksaber2 wrote...

The only thing I have to add to this raging discussion (sorry if this was covered in the last 390some pages) is that during the events of the finale, once the ending has begun, you have unlimited ammunition. This is somewhat of a departure from the norm. You can fire the pistol you have until you are blue in the face and you'll never be forced to reload, never run out of ammo. Some might say that it's because you need the gun, but it's not like you couldn't spread some ammunition around, there's plenty of human soldier bodies.

Really even aside from the eye, it's the biggest thing from my POV that shows that the entire thing is a fabrication.

LOL about the gun… what bugs me is that a lot of you are up in arms about the gun having infinite ammo in the end(you can still reload though)… But think about that for a second. Especially if you have low war resources and only have one option in the end… which is shooting the exploding pipe/node/destruction.
Anyways, one thing being said is “I didn’t have a pistol equipped”. Well there are plenty of bodies to pick from on, and if your weapons got blasted off you… you’re going to need one cause guns solve problems. Either way, now you have this “MAGIC GUN”(lol) and it’s like that for a lot of reasons. What if you were an absolute terrible shot. Those 3 husks would be a serious problem. Not to mention that Turian Reaper at the end. He takes at least 2 shots, if you aim well. So that’s 5 bullets needed, right there.
Next it is said that the gun isn’t in your hands after being beamed up… So what? Shep fell down and picked it up again. He knows it, too, since as soon as he is able he is looking for it. Oh, but this one also has infinite ammo. Again… So what? Let’s say it’s the same gun and has already had 5 rounds through it from when you picked it up. I think it would make the next scene really hard to pull off if you spent the rest of your ammo shooting the Keepers on the walk up. Imagine when TIM made a move to shoot at you and you were like “oh no TIM not today”… click. click. Bam, he shoots you dead.
Would have been nice to have that “Magic gun” there.
Anyways, let’s say you talk TIM into suicide and save 1 bullet… You still need 1 to shoot Anderson. So that is 6 shots so far. Let’s say Shepard picks up a Carnifex that only has 9 shots in the mag. Which would make the final decision scene really difficult. Figure you go through the talks and pick “destroy”. You sashay on up to the area and are required to shoot the pipe to destroy it. You have 3 shots left. OH but it takes 4 shots to go boom.
You lose before you even get the ending where you lose. Not good. So in my opinion the gun with infinite ammo is a plot device to move the story along. Since if you didn’t have it, you could run out of ammo only to be stranded in the end with no way to end the game, or inevitably get killed by TIM when you can’t Renegade option shoot him. See what I’m saying. 

Holy **** that was the stupidest thing I've read in a while. 

[nevar00]

thePredator50 wrote...

http://www.gameranx....ies-conclusion/

Is it all for naught?

Um... honestly the original idea sounds almost as bad itself, unless the point was to set up another game in the series.  Whether or not you kill the Reapers, you're still left with the huge plot point of whether or not you can stop the Dark Energy.  So yeah... that sounds like it would've been almost as awful as the one we got (assuming the indocrination theory is incorrect, although I don't think that's the case).

[Golferguy758]

Pyewacket wrote...

Golferguy758 wrote...

De1ta G wrote...

PDesign wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Or the kid was a real person but he was never in the vents and died in the initial attack.

He was

I'm guessing he used green space magic to get through that door...

Door is locked until kid gets there, immediately unlocks for him, he runs in, and door immediately locks behind him less than a second later.

Also, how did that kid get on the ledge?

Ah HA!  Now that's interesting.  I'm so confused, y'all.

A real kid couldn't be up there unless he is Peter Parker. There are no ladders on the side of the building, yet the kid "climbs" onto the balcony

[stuka1000]

Well BW will have to do something about the ending if they wish to continue making games in the ME universe; be it with Shepard or not. The current ending completely destroys the ME universe with the destruction of the relays so no further games would be possible unless they were set on just a single world or at the very most in a single star system. The hallucination or indoctrination theories would be viable ways to fix this. To be honest I wish they had made more effort with the start as well; My second playthrough was with a character that said screw you to the alliance in ME2 so there was no way she would have handed the Normandy over to them.

These issues aside though I believe BW's biggest mistake was including a multiplayer option as this took development time and budget away from the SP game resulting in many obvious cut corners.