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Was the ending a hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory


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#9801
JasonTan87

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[quote]Fledgey wrote...

Also going along with the fact that you can't look at your characters feet, the chamber you walk through on the way to the console room clearly has large games in the floor that you shouldn't be able to walk over, yet you can just float over them, and judging from the rest of the game, that stuff like that would normally have an invisible walk around it to prevent that.[/quote]I mentioned this before, earlier. Nobody really paid attention to it though. I feel like it's fairly significant.
[/quote]

Yes, the hallucination theory is plausible.  No, we don't know for sure what Bioware intended. Either way, what we got is just bad writing.

I can't stress this enough: please don't give the writers more credit than they should receive; especially for something that they didn't create.  This credit should go to you guys, not them.

Modifié par JasonTan87, 14 mars 2012 - 02:40 .


#9802
NoxJuked

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hallucination indoctrination - So I was playing ME3 again second time
through, and on the home world of the Asari the VI Vendetta that you
talk to mentions that half the group of Protheans working together on
the crucible, coming up with the same plan that the Illusive Man did
which is control the reapers. Interestingly enough he also states that
later on they found out those that wanted control were indoctrinated.

The one question somebody brought up that made me rethink the whole hal/indoc thing was that if you don't have enough assests at the end all you get is destroy BUT I changed my mind again when that ending also shows the little boy having a different tone when Shepard reaches that area. He instead says "What are you doing here?!" instead of just "Wake up!". The bad part about this ending is pretty much everyone dies on Earth and the Galaxy.

Just thought I would add this. There are other multiple points in the game where you hear some dialogue and different opinions about the endings of the game. At one point somebody mentions the Salarians would be fine being organic synthetic then they go on to say Humans have different opinions though.

#9803
Reptilian Rob

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Shunt Mcblunt wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Pathero wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Pathero wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

I truly feel like I'm indoctrinated right now, going between cynicism and hope. I don't think my mind is my own right now. If by some miracle long shot that was Biowares plan, simply amazing.


The Kool Aid is mighty tasty isn't it?

Mostly just confusing...


Confusing but incredibly fun. 

I feel used...


Stop using Video games for dating advice. J/K

Guys think of it this way if you Died it is over. I choose to Live and my Shepard will be getting up from the Rubble and fighting because I know this is not the end!

My Shep lived too, and I hope he rises as well...

#9804
Golferguy758

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I've been defending this concept for a while, but part of me is starting to lose some hope. I don't know how to explain it, i just feel more and more drained. Cryptic tweets and conjecture is great, but I keep seeing the false side of it, too.

Then there was that interview that was released a little while ago that put BSN into a tizzy, but it did sap some more of my morale even if it was done several days ago.

Sadface

#9805
Jillers

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You know, I believe that the ending sequence is all a dream, and while the evidence is all written down here, I would like to offer something a bit more simple (that does not contradict some of the theories written here).

IIRC (and mind you I learned this stuff about 7 years ago when I thought I would be a psych major, so consider I might be misremembering things from books whose names I've since forgotten), in dreams typically words appear mirrored (backwards) or jumbled, as do colors. 1M1 being backwards, and the color (paragon/renegade) options seeming reversed sort of yell that to me. Not to mention that one of the current hypothesis of why we dream is to make sense of past events, sort of like, sort it in our brains what happened etc... which would make complete sense why so many aspects, from running into the conduit to TIM's Saren Speech, are sort of symmetrical.

Whether you do or don't believe in Freud's Interpretation of Dreams, the idea that dreams are wish-fulfillment is hard to ignore when you consider that 1.) you get to kill TIM (or force him to kill himself) 2.) The boy is alive in some form, the major thing that is clearly haunting shep, and 3.) Shep is given a third option that doesn't royally screw someone over - in the other games there has always been a save [x] and [y] dies (and vice versa) decision. This time, Shep doesn't have to **** anyone over, synthetics and organics can finally live together in peace.

Finally something that hit me over the head recently was that in Interpretations of Dreams, Freud even talks about the "Burning Child" dream. While that dream is completely different from Shep's, of course, it was a funny thing that struck me when thinking about it, I was like "Didn't Freud talk about a burning child dream?".

I also had something about an Oedipal complex, but forgot what I was saying about it so dropped it.

Anyway, dream brought on by Harbinger trying to indoctrinate shep? Maybe, I buy it. But I'm totally reading dream from it.

#9806
eclipso621

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Just a quick thing if anyone watches being human the Reapers in that show appears as a black shadowy figure. And in sheps dream all the black shadowy figures swarm around the kid.

Prolly just nonsense but think of it like the Reapers are moving to their leader.

#9807
N3vDawg

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http://social.biowar...5/index/9900809
What could this mean for our theory?

#9808
Miekkas

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I'm probably rehashing things but...

What I cannot understand though is: if this theory is true, what is going on in the other two endings with variations of Joker crashing and the old man telling a story to the child? Are they part of Shepard's hallucination/ indoctrination where he is seeing what he wants to see or what the Reapers want him to see?

And I never understood the reasoning behind the three different actions taken by Shepard to initiate the ending aka shooting, jumping into the beam, or grabbing the two bars of energy. They make no sense at all. How would shooting cause the Reapers to be destroyed or jumping into the beam cause synthesis or gripping the bars cause him to control the Reapers? Why does he HAVE to die if he initiates synthesis or control? The creators of the Reapers could manipulate matter and energy, but they could not design a means that doesn't kill a person who happens to stumble on the Catalyst? How in the world did Shepard survive falling from orbit after a frigging explosion that makes the Normandy SR-1 destruction look like a joke? None of it makes any sense on its own without some form of explanation.

#9809
crimsontotem

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"debating what the endings mean and what’s going to happen next, and what
situation are the characters left in"

we are doing that right now... It's not a confirmation I will take it as usual. Casey dodging a main question

#9810
BiNGEaNiNjA

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 I find one flaw with indoctrination as a cause for the endings, and I hope (as I'm sure most fans would) that I am wrong.  There are two characters in the game which can sense indoctrination.  The Prothean VI and Javik have contact with Shepard and neither of them sense indoctrination.  I seriously doubt indoctrination leaves a weak impression on the mind.  Javik is able to sense the maturing of a Krogan, the altered genes of a test tube baby, and a number of other insane observations from remnant dead organic material.  Again I hope this is just an oversight in storytelling because I want a better ending too.

#9811
Fledgey

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Here's my video of all the scenes featuring the kid in the beginning. Worth a look.

#9812
AlexPorto111

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Modifié par AlexPorto111, 14 mars 2012 - 02:56 .


#9813
crimsontotem

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BiNGEaNiNjA wrote...

 I find one flaw with indoctrination as a cause for the endings, and I hope (as I'm sure most fans would) that I am wrong.  There are two characters in the game which can sense indoctrination.  The Prothean VI and Javik have contact with Shepard and neither of them sense indoctrination.  I seriously doubt indoctrination leaves a weak impression on the mind.  Javik is able to sense the maturing of a Krogan, the altered genes of a test tube baby, and a number of other insane observations from remnant dead organic material.  Again I hope this is just an oversight in storytelling because I want a better ending too.


one of our main point is that he is being indoctrinated after he got blasted by the Harbinger

#9814
NeoMan5

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I read a few pages back about people wondering bout the kid and the whole climbing up to go through the locked door, and just wanted to point out (if it wasn't already cause it could very well have), that if you look closely as you first come to that area, the kid is already standing there and turns to run towards the door once you have to vault the obstacle in your way.

#9815
Vikali

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NeoMan5 wrote...

I read a few pages back about people wondering bout the kid and the whole climbing up to go through the locked door, and just wanted to point out (if it wasn't already cause it could very well have), that if you look closely as you first come to that area, the kid is already standing there and turns to run towards the door once you have to vault the obstacle in your way.


It's also interesting that he watched the people below running out of the building for their lives very calmly, and only moves right before the husks arrive.

#9816
MasterMenace

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watch this



#9817
NightAntilli

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If you wait long enough at the end without making a choice, you'll eventually get a mission failure screen saying the crucible has been destroyed, so, I doubt it's indoctrination.

Modifié par NightAntilli, 14 mars 2012 - 02:59 .


#9818
Fledgey

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NightAntilli wrote...

If you wait long enough at the end without making a choice, you'll eventually get a mission failure screen saying the crucible has been destroyed, so, I doubt it's indoctrination.

Well if I stand stationary in a combat situation I get a mission failiure screen so I doubt the game has an ending

#9819
balance5050

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N3vDawg wrote...

http://social.biowar...5/index/9900809
What could this mean for our theory?


It means nothing, it's more question dodging. There is a reason he can't directly comment. If you were sitting on the real ending but knew it wasn't going to be released yet, you wouldn't want to spoil THE BIGGEST GAME REVEAL IN HISTORY either. 

#9820
Icinix

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Miekkas wrote...

I'm probably rehashing things but...

What I cannot understand though is: if this theory is true, what is going on in the other two endings with variations of Joker crashing and the old man telling a story to the child? Are they part of Shepard's hallucination/ indoctrination where he is seeing what he wants to see or what the Reapers want him to see?


Red herrings.

They're quick and nasty put together cinematics that don't have a tenth of the polish as the rest of the cinematics in the game.

Its not evidence - but it is interesting. There is no dialogue at the Normandy crash. We see only three squad mates or none - 1 is ALWAYS Joker, EDI in all but one choice comes out second. It would have been so easy for them to just add every crew memeber standing on the hill - but they didn't.

The Buzz Aldrin thing at the end is just horribly awkward and doesn't feel like any love went into it - but if we're going with our crazy conspiracy theories - would make sense if they want people thinking that the ending is real.

But seriously? "There could be all kinds of strange weird alien life" etc etc. FTL is still active - there is the mixture of races all over the galaxy. The story of Shep has been spread somehow, if it was an isolate human only colony off in the middle of nowhere - how would they have any idea about what happened at Earth with Shep unless someone came to them and told them the Reapers were defeated somehow. It doesn't fit in and has holes big enough to fly the Citadel through.

So I'll hold to them being Red Herrings until BioWare comes out and actually says "These are complete, definitive endings." Like they did with DA2.

#9821
NightAntilli

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Fledgey wrote...

NightAntilli wrote...

If you wait long enough at the end without making a choice, you'll eventually get a mission failure screen saying the crucible has been destroyed, so, I doubt it's indoctrination.

Well if I stand stationary in a combat situation I get a mission failiure screen so I doubt the game has an ending

I discovered this by accident. I was wandering around, seeing if there is no secret place you can crawl to or whatever, and instead, I discovered that. So I wasn't just standing there doing nothing.

Modifié par NightAntilli, 14 mars 2012 - 03:03 .


#9822
Sajuro

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Fledgey wrote...

NightAntilli wrote...

If you wait long enough at the end without making a choice, you'll eventually get a mission failure screen saying the crucible has been destroyed, so, I doubt it's indoctrination.

Well if I stand stationary in a combat situation I get a mission failiure screen so I doubt the game has an ending

If I stand still in the Reaper sequence on Rannoch I get vaporized, I'm sure there's nothng past that

#9823
N3vDawg

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balance5050 wrote...

N3vDawg wrote...

http://social.biowar...5/index/9900809
What could this mean for our theory?


It means nothing, it's more question dodging. There is a reason he can't directly comment. If you were sitting on the real ending but knew it wasn't going to be released yet, you wouldn't want to spoil THE BIGGEST GAME REVEAL IN HISTORY either. 

Ok, that's really all I wanted to know.

#9824
acManic

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Another reason it could be indoctrination. Might have been mentioned before... Since the reapers already control TIM and he seems to be controlling you in TIM/Anderson conversation, wouldn't that mean the reapers actually forced you to shoot Anderson? Or at least that they wanted you to do that. Like they didn't want you to be influenced by him. So they wanted him dead.

Idk I think that's proof right there. The reapers definitely control TIM and it's implied he control you and Anderson even if it was only for a moment. Sorry if it's been mentioned before though, hard keeping up with this haha.

#9825
bellabri287

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I tell you WE are being indoctrinated! we must resists, and in turn Shep will resist and we get a real ending!