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[Miss Vader]

Fledgey wrote...

Here's my video of all the scenes featuring the kid in the beginning. Worth a look.

Thanks for posting! I have been meaning to go back and look at this but have been too lazy to do so lol

[N3vDawg]

acManic wrote...

Another reason it could be indoctrination. Might have been mentioned before... Since the reapers already control TIM and he seems to be controlling you in TIM/Anderson conversation, wouldn't that mean the reapers actually forced you to shoot Anderson? Or at least that they wanted you to do that. Like they didn't want you to be influenced by him. So they wanted him dead.

Idk I think that's proof right there. The reapers definitely control TIM and it's implied he control you and Anderson even if it was only for a moment. Sorry if it's been mentioned before though, hard keeping up with this haha.

Yes, good point, I found that odd as well. Anyone know if this has been said?

[BiNGEaNiNjA]

crimsontotem wrote...

BiNGEaNiNjA wrote...

 I find one flaw with indoctrination as a cause for the endings, and I hope (as I'm sure most fans would) that I am wrong.  There are two characters in the game which can sense indoctrination.  The Prothean VI and Javik have contact with Shepard and neither of them sense indoctrination.  I seriously doubt indoctrination leaves a weak impression on the mind.  Javik is able to sense the maturing of a Krogan, the altered genes of a test tube baby, and a number of other insane observations from remnant dead organic material.  Again I hope this is just an oversight in storytelling because I want a better ending too.

one of our main point is that he is being indoctrinated after he got blasted by the Harbinger

Most of the theories point to earlier contact opening the door for indoctrination, but I also remember TIM's research into indoctrination teaching us that adrenaline makes subjects more vulnerable to the indoctrination.  My point against indoctrination would be that Javik would have sensed something earlier in Shepard even if he was a "little" indoctrinated.  The effect was always shown to be a progressive type of mind control, but the signs were obvious and when the mind started to subvert people were subtly rewritten.  Remember the derelict reaper?  Two people remembered having the same wife?  That's not some minor change.  Given Javik's description of the Prothean's abilities he would have picked up something like that.

This doesn't mean Shepard was not fighting against his own doubts, PTSD, and blood loss in the end which caused a hallucination 

[Kashiin]

I find this topic most interesting. I just beat the game and I was looking for answers. I totally agree with the theory of a "mind-hijacked"/trauma Shepard. Thank you for the many hints I found here.

[Icinix]

acManic wrote...

Another reason it could be indoctrination. Might have been mentioned before... Since the reapers already control TIM and he seems to be controlling you in TIM/Anderson conversation, wouldn't that mean the reapers actually forced you to shoot Anderson? Or at least that they wanted you to do that. Like they didn't want you to be influenced by him. So they wanted him dead.

Idk I think that's proof right there. The reapers definitely control TIM and it's implied he control you and Anderson even if it was only for a moment. Sorry if it's been mentioned before though, hard keeping up with this haha.

Yeah - like Anderson is an anchor point for Sheps mental state. Something pulling him back. Makes sense they want you to think he's out of the picture.

[Fledgey]

Miss Vader wrote...

Fledgey wrote...

Here's my video of all the scenes featuring the kid in the beginning. Worth a look.

Thanks for posting! I have been meaning to go back and look at this but have been too lazy to do so lol

It's even in 1080p  That took forever to figure out how to do in adobe premiere pro. I also got a closer look at the kid while he's just watching at the railing, I know people were asking about that.

[NotCras]

N3vDawg wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

N3vDawg wrote...

http://social.biowar...5/index/9900809
What could this mean for our theory?

It means nothing, it's more question dodging. There is a reason he can't directly comment. If you were sitting on the real ending but knew it wasn't going to be released yet, you wouldn't want to spoil THE BIGGEST GAME REVEAL IN HISTORY either. 

Ok, that's really all I wanted to know.

I totally agree, it all just doesnt make sense.
More on my theories here This is another thought of mine about the ending, I think its a Bioware conspiracy against us.
http://toomuchbrainf...e3-thought.html

[bkp360]

If it's just a dream then Earth is in really bad shape as they were losing pretty bad last I saw.

So I guess the reapers will win because ole 'Sheps off dreaming. I feel so bad for all of you guys still holding onto hope. But I feel worse for myself as I have none left.

[TheGoddess0fWar]

From the codex:

"Organics undergoing indoctrination may complain of headaches and buzzing or ringing in their ears. As time passes, they have feelings of "being watched" and hallucinations of "ghostly" presences. Ultimately, the Reaper gains the ability to use the victim's body to amplify its signals, manifesting as "alien" voices in the mind"

1. James comments on a hum when you speak to him asking "Is it just me?"
2. Ghostly presences as well as voices are seen/heard in Shepard's dreams
3. The same trees from Shepard's dreams are seen when they get up after being blasted by Harbinger and going towards the Crucible

Based on this, I'm all for the Hallucation/Indoctrination theory.

Modifié par TheGoddess0fWar, 14 mars 2012 - 03:11 .

[Icinix]

Fledgey wrote...

Miss Vader wrote...

Fledgey wrote...

Here's my video of all the scenes featuring the kid in the beginning. Worth a look.

Thanks for posting! I have been meaning to go back and look at this but have been too lazy to do so lol

It's even in 1080p  That took forever to figure out how to do in adobe premiere pro. I also got a closer look at the kid while he's just watching at the railing, I know people were asking about that.

Awesome! Thanks for this, this is great!

Also - lol @ trying to shoot him.

[hypothead]

O.O.....OMFG....I have no clue what is real anymore.

[N3vDawg]

bkp360 wrote...

If it's just a dream then Earth is in really bad shape as they were losing pretty bad last I saw.

So I guess the reapers will win because ole 'Sheps off dreaming. I feel so bad for all of you guys still holding onto hope. But I feel worse for myself as I have none left.

SLAP! Snap outa it!

[Fledgey]

Icinix wrote...

Fledgey wrote...

Miss Vader wrote...

Fledgey wrote...

Here's my video of all the scenes featuring the kid in the beginning. Worth a look.

Thanks for posting! I have been meaning to go back and look at this but have been too lazy to do so lol

It's even in 1080p  That took forever to figure out how to do in adobe premiere pro. I also got a closer look at the kid while he's just watching at the railing, I know people were asking about that.

Awesome! Thanks for this, this is great!

Also - lol @ trying to shoot him.

he's a little sneaky bastard.

[ArkkAngel007]

Wow this thread turned into a mess, didn't it?

The Stargazer scene is the only one that blocks this theory. At that point, the Shepard lives scene has already played out. Therefore, it is assumed that no matter what happens, this scene will play out. Obviously, if Shepard dies or is assimilated, this wouldn't be the case.

Supposedly the reason the Catalyst, as it calls itself, can't take action is supposedly that the Crucible is causing interference. That's what it states in the script anyways.

Now, I see lazy writing thrown around a lot. Sorry, no pun intended, that is one of the laziest excuses I've heard from fans. They don't know what goes on in the board room, or through that writing process. If this happens to be true, it's the exact opposite of lazy writing; it's one of the most brilliant and ballsy moves in the industry.

However, the marketing aspect is a disaster still if this proves true and is offered as as paid DLC. This is a part of the narrative of ME3, the conclusion of that narrative, and that should have been retained within the full narrative arc. Telling people to pay more for the real final battle for Earth is just asking for a permanent shun.

[Handren]

Posting here for the first time since ME2 days to say I fully support this. I simply wanted to uppercut the starchild and say: JUST WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK I AM!?

And tell him about how I made peace with the geth and he's full of crap. I really want there to be a new ending DLC.

For those who wanted shepard to die, and feel it is appropos, that is fine, but at least respect those who want other options. Why must we either die or leave the galaxy and so many species in such a horrible state?! There MUST be another way. That is what ME is all about. There is always another option.

[SlottsMachine]

 I don't know if this has been posted or not. If it has, here it is again. I still hate the endings but it mentions things I didn't notice or pay much attention too. I found it interesting.

Edit/

*reads caption underneath the video*    Nevermind, carry on. lol

Modifié par GeneralSlotts193, 14 mars 2012 - 03:20 .

[JFedora]

BiNGEaNiNjA wrote...

crimsontotem wrote...

BiNGEaNiNjA wrote...

 I find one flaw with indoctrination as a cause for the endings, and I hope (as I'm sure most fans would) that I am wrong.  There are two characters in the game which can sense indoctrination.  The Prothean VI and Javik have contact with Shepard and neither of them sense indoctrination.  I seriously doubt indoctrination leaves a weak impression on the mind.  Javik is able to sense the maturing of a Krogan, the altered genes of a test tube baby, and a number of other insane observations from remnant dead organic material.  Again I hope this is just an oversight in storytelling because I want a better ending too.

one of our main point is that he is being indoctrinated after he got blasted by the Harbinger

Most of the theories point to earlier contact opening the door for indoctrination, but I also remember TIM's research into indoctrination teaching us that adrenaline makes subjects more vulnerable to the indoctrination.  My point against indoctrination would be that Javik would have sensed something earlier in Shepard even if he was a "little" indoctrinated.  The effect was always shown to be a progressive type of mind control, but the signs were obvious and when the mind started to subvert people were subtly rewritten.  Remember the derelict reaper?  Two people remembered having the same wife?  That's not some minor change.  Given Javik's description of the Prothean's abilities he would have picked up something like that.

This doesn't mean Shepard was not fighting against his own doubts, PTSD, and blood loss in the end which caused a hallucination 

Javik admits that the Protheans didn't fully understand indoctrination - the whole reason his base feel was because of indoctrinated sleeper agents. If an entire military base with thousands of protheans being kept under tight security was infiltrated by indoctrination, is it really so unbelievable that Shepard, only in the early stages of indoctrination and still fighting it off, managed to be undetected as well?

[Icinix]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

Supposedly the reason the Catalyst, as it calls itself, can't take action is supposedly that the Crucible is causing interference. That's what it states in the script anyways.

..which maybe is the only thing the Crucible needs to do...

Without Reapers being controlled, communicated by a central source, they can be divided and conquered like any foe, they might lose control of their husks and other abominations.

The indoctrination scene could be the one last attempt at getting control of Shep.

[Golferguy758]

I'm desperately trying to hold onto hope, but I just feel taxed by it. really hope that my faith isn't misplaced.

And this is coming form one of the hardcore defenders of this theory, too. hah.

[HauntingBeauty]

Might I just add, that if you look at the video closely, the soldiers actually help all the other refugees into the shuttle...but not the only kid who is all alone? Just a thought.

Edit: Can be seen at 3:01

Modifié par HauntingBeauty, 14 mars 2012 - 03:21 .

[Repossessor]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

Wow this thread turned into a mess, didn't it?

The Stargazer scene is the only one that blocks this theory. At that point, the Shepard lives scene has already played out. Therefore, it is assumed that no matter what happens, this scene will play out. Obviously, if Shepard dies or is assimilated, this wouldn't be the case. 

The Stargazer scene can still happen if they ever release a new ending.  It appears to take place a great deal of time in the future; we're just assuming we know what came before that moment.

[NeoMan5]

TheGoddess0fWar wrote...

From the codex:

"Organics undergoing indoctrination may complain of headaches and buzzing or ringing in their ears. As time passes, they have feelings of "being watched" and hallucinations of "ghostly" presences. Ultimately, the Reaper gains the ability to use the victim's body to amplify its signals, manifesting as "alien" voices in the mind"

1. James comments on a hum when you speak to him asking "Is it just me?"
2. Ghostly presences as well as voices are seen/heard in Shepard's dreams
3. The same trees from Shepard's dreams are seen when they get up after being blasted by Harbinger and going towards the Crucible

Based on this, I'm all for the Hallucation/Indoctrination theory.

Those trees are there on the approach as well and don't just "show up" after you get blown away.

[Sajuro]

NightAntilli wrote...

If you wait long enough at the end without making a choice, you'll eventually get a mission failure screen saying the crucible has been destroyed, so, I doubt it's indoctrination.

Think of it like this, if you break out of indoctrination then that sends a shock up Harbinger's spine and that is translated to the rest of the Reapers since he is the leader and that'll give the Alliance some extra time so Shepard can get to da beam and open the Citadel arm for real so they can dock that badboy.

[Handren]

Icinix I have that very page you have linked in you sig open right now! LOL

I also agree that the whole starchild scene simply reeks of what we have been told (and seen in the third novel) of what indoctrination is like firsthand.I would love it if the "Secret ending" is Shep waking up in the rubble after the laser on earth, overcoming Harbinger's indoctrination.

Also conspicuous is the absence of the final boss, which they even said there was in the CE artbook, and ME1/2 each had. This isn`t like halo, where only one game had bosses. Each game has so far.

Those trees are there on the approach as well and don't just "show up" after you get blown away.

Could be the beginning signs of indoctrination that they are there.

Modifié par Handren, 14 mars 2012 - 03:23 .

[ArkkAngel007]

Icinix wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

Supposedly the reason the Catalyst, as it calls itself, can't take action is supposedly that the Crucible is causing interference. That's what it states in the script anyways.

..which maybe is the only thing the Crucible needs to do...

Without Reapers being controlled, communicated by a central source, they can be divided and conquered like any foe, they might lose control of their husks and other abominations.

The indoctrination scene could be the one last attempt at getting control of Shep.

Possibly.  All I know is that it says that the Crucible has altered things to where it can't do anything itself, and it needs Shep to do so.  More than likely, Shepard is the true catalyst.