57139 réponses à ce sujet

[k8ee]

keginkc wrote...

k8ee wrote...

@krystalevenstar
Yes, hope. That has always been a big thing, especially in this game, and really there is no hope with the endings presented to us.

I dunno.  Maybe no hope for Shepard as an individual, but the entire ending rang as hope for the galaxy to me.  Especially the sythesize ending, where you've essentially saved every form of life in the galaxy, organic and synthetic alike.  And then the end scene with the Normandy, as bizarrely out of place as it seemed to have them flying far away from Earth, is hope in a nutshell, with EDI and Joker basically set up as adam and eve for a new hybrid race on some beautiful and perfect planet somewhere.  I actually loved that part once I shut down the "wtf is the normandy doing?" part of my brain.  Sure, you apparently have stranded your LI there, too, but even that's a happy "saved the one I loved" moment.

I just don't buy it... both choices to control or synthesize seem like the reapers win. The entire game you are bent on destroying them, and in the end you give in and compromise? No way.

[Raveyn]

lavosslayer wrote...

humes spork wrote...

lavosslayer wrote...

We already established though that everyone else in the crew was already on the ship doing the refit so it would make sense...

No, there's a point there. If Eva were the source of the Reaper tech, then it follows none of the people involved in the Normandy refit would have been previously exposed to it. If the Reaper tech or an Indoctrination device came from another source, then EDI would have known about it even if the crew themselves never found it and undoubtedly said something to someone

I see your point and raise you a question of why wouldn't EDI detect the Reaper Tech in the cyber body when it was brought on board the Normandy?

She wouldn't detect it becaise EDI is the Reaper Tech?  (And no, I'm not saying she's aware of what's happening)

It's stated in ME2 and again in ME3 that she has Reaper programming built into her.  If that's the case, wouldn't it follow that she is the Indoctrination device? (She also being the Normandy?)  Hell, Shepard has so much contact with the Reapers that this wouldn't even be needed as a plot device, but it sure does fit.

[lavosslayer]

lookingglassmind wrote...

lavosslayer wrote...

I also don't recall anyone ever occupying the starboard observatory either. (The room with the bar and card table/Kasumi's old room)

Tali goes there to get drunk after Miranda's mission.

hah wuddya know!? something I missed...cool to know...anyway about the indoctrination device..lol

[krystalevenstar]

Could someone repost the codex entry on indoctrination from earlier in the thread? I think that's one of the most powerful pieces of evidence to all of this. It essentially describes Shepard's dreams to a freakin-T

[byne]

rogueagent6 wrote...

lavosslayer wrote...

lookingglassmind wrote...

humes spork wrote...

The only room that seems to never serve a purpose in ME3 is life support, and that's always open for some unknown reason.

It's also just about the only place on the ship Javik doesn't touch with a ten-foot pole...especially odd given his predilection for walking around "sensing" the former crew. Seems he would have jumped at the opportunity to go to life support and "get to know" Thane.

That is also interesting. I wondered at the empty Life Support, but again, just let it go once it remained unexplained. It's weird that it was left open, no-one ever touched it. Characters are found in multiple places (Kaidan has several locations, as does Tali, etc), but that room has always been silent and empty. Perfect for a DLC character, but also weird. Why would it have been open? Unless they were planning on having someone in there that didn't make into the final product, such as Thane himself.

I also don't recall anyone ever occupying the starboard observatory either. (The room with the bar and card table/Kasumi's old room)

Tail got drunk there.

I've also run into Garrus talking to random crewmember in there, and another time when I ran into Garrus talking to Liara in there.

[FugitiveMind]

humes spork wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Except that James is on the opposite side of the ship and a deck (two decks by the elevator) below Eva's body and I would expect Cortez to say something if that was it since he sleeps beneath the AI core it seems.

Yeah, the Eva link isn't particularly compelling, unless you add in the prospect EDI was broadcasting an Indoctrination signal through the whole damn ship via intercom. Still, putting a device in the cargo bay exposes a lot of crew, especially when they'd be leaving for and coming back from missions which would be when hormonal stress reaction would be highest.

I seem to recall a convo with Cortez about having a good eye that the shuttle is new with new stealth technology like that of the Normandy... you know, the stuff Cerberus installed...

[krystalevenstar]

lookingglassmind wrote...

lavosslayer wrote...

I also don't recall anyone ever occupying the starboard observatory either. (The room with the bar and card table/Kasumi's old room)

Tali goes there to get drunk after Miranda's mission.

Kaiden and Vega are also playing poker in there at one point.

[Daedrus_0837]

keginkc wrote...

k8ee wrote...

@krystalevenstar
Yes, hope. That has always been a big thing, especially in this game, and really there is no hope with the endings presented to us.

I dunno.  Maybe no hope for Shepard as an individual, but the entire ending rang as hope for the galaxy to me.  Especially the sythesize ending, where you've essentially saved every form of life in the galaxy, organic and synthetic alike.  And then the end scene with the Normandy, as bizarrely out of place as it seemed to have them flying far away from Earth, is hope in a nutshell, with EDI and Joker basically set up as adam and eve for a new hybrid race on some beautiful and perfect planet somewhere.  I actually loved that part once I shut down the "wtf is the normandy doing?" part of my brain.  Sure, you apparently have stranded your LI there, too, but even that's a happy "saved the one I loved" moment.

Any ending that involves the Mass Relays being destroyed pretty much seals the fates of many of the various races. Quarians in Sol are screwed, as are Turians, since neither of those races can consume Human food. Earth is too small to accomodate the population of ships above, so those people will live out of their ships until they run out of resources, which will happen soon since there isn't alot of EZO in Sol.

Also, my interpretation of saving the one(s) I love does not involve stranding them on a planet by themselves. Especially if you had Liara (850 years by herself) or Tali (going to die a slow, horrible death).

[omgBAMF]

lookingglassmind wrote...

lavosslayer wrote...

I also don't recall anyone ever occupying the starboard observatory either. (The room with the bar and card table/Kasumi's old room)

Tali goes there to get drunk after Miranda's mission.

There's also a scene there between Garrus, Javick, and a random crewmember talking about the Prothean's past.

[k8ee]

Tali getting drunk was hilarious. But that's OT, lol

[keginkc]

lookingglassmind wrote...

lavosslayer wrote...

I also don't recall anyone ever occupying the starboard observatory either. (The room with the bar and card table/Kasumi's old room)

Tali goes there to get drunk after Miranda's mission.

Several things happen in there, as I recall.  The afore-mentioned Tali drinking.  Also have Kaiden and Vega playing poker.  And I think I remember a scene with Javik, Vega and the pilot talking, as well.  I could swear I remember Garrus being in there once, too, near the virtual reality machine.

(I loved the way they did the crew on the ship, I would check every room after literally every mission)

[lavosslayer]

Raveyn wrote...

lavosslayer wrote...

humes spork wrote...

lavosslayer wrote...

We already established though that everyone else in the crew was already on the ship doing the refit so it would make sense...

No, there's a point there. If Eva were the source of the Reaper tech, then it follows none of the people involved in the Normandy refit would have been previously exposed to it. If the Reaper tech or an Indoctrination device came from another source, then EDI would have known about it even if the crew themselves never found it and undoubtedly said something to someone

I see your point and raise you a question of why wouldn't EDI detect the Reaper Tech in the cyber body when it was brought on board the Normandy?

She wouldn't detect it becaise EDI is the Reaper Tech?  (And no, I'm not saying she's aware of what's happening)

It's stated in ME2 and again in ME3 that she has Reaper programming built into her.  If that's the case, wouldn't it follow that she is the Indoctrination device? (She also being the Normandy?)  Hell, Shepard has so much contact with the Reapers that this wouldn't even be needed as a plot device, but it sure does fit.

I think we are saying the same thing

Either

A) she is the reaper tech

there is no reaper device on the ship at all

or
C) since she is part reaper tech, any device brought onboard isn't detected as its deemed harmless due to the (whoa this just popped in my head) underlying IFF subroutines that she incorporated from the the deralict Reaper!?

[krystalevenstar]

Something has been digging at me a bit about the Normandy crash ending. It seems like it's an uninhabited jungle planet, yet in all the versions of my ending, on the upper left side of the last scene when they're looking at the planets in the sky, you can clearly see some sort of construct/building. Definitely out of place in the jungle scene. I'll try to get a screencap somewhere and show what I'm talking about.

[humes spork]

lavosslayer wrote...

I also don't recall anyone ever occupying the starboard observatory either. (The room with the bar and card table/Kasumi's old room)

You can catch squaddies poking around and shooting the breeze in starboard observatory from time to time. The only place I never caught anybody generally farting around were Shep's cabin and the war room (for obvious reasons) and life support.

[Evindell]

Daedrus_0837 wrote...

keginkc wrote...

k8ee wrote...

@krystalevenstar
Yes, hope. That has always been a big thing, especially in this game, and really there is no hope with the endings presented to us.

I dunno.  Maybe no hope for Shepard as an individual, but the entire ending rang as hope for the galaxy to me.  Especially the sythesize ending, where you've essentially saved every form of life in the galaxy, organic and synthetic alike.  And then the end scene with the Normandy, as bizarrely out of place as it seemed to have them flying far away from Earth, is hope in a nutshell, with EDI and Joker basically set up as adam and eve for a new hybrid race on some beautiful and perfect planet somewhere.  I actually loved that part once I shut down the "wtf is the normandy doing?" part of my brain.  Sure, you apparently have stranded your LI there, too, but even that's a happy "saved the one I loved" moment.

Any ending that involves the Mass Relays being destroyed pretty much seals the fates of many of the various races. Quarians in Sol are screwed, as are Turians, since neither of those races can consume Human food. Earth is too small to accomodate the population of ships above, so those people will live out of their ships until they run out of resources, which will happen soon since there isn't alot of EZO in Sol.

Also, my interpretation of saving the one(s) I love does not involve stranding them on a planet by themselves. Especially if you had Liara (850 years by herself) or Tali (going to die a slow, horrible death).

This.

So, so much, this.

[DrDetective]

Javik never left the cargo hold, for me.

[lookingglassmind]

krystalevenstar wrote...

Something has been digging at me a bit about the Normandy crash ending. It seems like it's an uninhabited jungle planet, yet in all the versions of my ending, on the upper left side of the last scene when they're looking at the planets in the sky, you can clearly see some sort of construct/building. Definitely out of place in the jungle scene. I'll try to get a screencap somewhere and show what I'm talking about.

Really? Hmm! I don't remember this. (And I remember scanning like a crazy person trying to find something I could identify on the horizon).

[keginkc]

Evindell wrote...

Daedrus_0837 wrote...

keginkc wrote...

k8ee wrote...

@krystalevenstar
Yes, hope. That has always been a big thing, especially in this game, and really there is no hope with the endings presented to us.

I dunno.  Maybe no hope for Shepard as an individual, but the entire ending rang as hope for the galaxy to me.  Especially the sythesize ending, where you've essentially saved every form of life in the galaxy, organic and synthetic alike.  And then the end scene with the Normandy, as bizarrely out of place as it seemed to have them flying far away from Earth, is hope in a nutshell, with EDI and Joker basically set up as adam and eve for a new hybrid race on some beautiful and perfect planet somewhere.  I actually loved that part once I shut down the "wtf is the normandy doing?" part of my brain.  Sure, you apparently have stranded your LI there, too, but even that's a happy "saved the one I loved" moment.

Any ending that involves the Mass Relays being destroyed pretty much seals the fates of many of the various races. Quarians in Sol are screwed, as are Turians, since neither of those races can consume Human food. Earth is too small to accomodate the population of ships above, so those people will live out of their ships until they run out of resources, which will happen soon since there isn't alot of EZO in Sol.

Also, my interpretation of saving the one(s) I love does not involve stranding them on a planet by themselves. Especially if you had Liara (850 years by herself) or Tali (going to die a slow, horrible death).

This.

So, so much, this.

I'm good with that.  We can agree to disagree.

[humes spork]

lavosslayer wrote...

there is no reaper device on the ship at all

Well, Indoctrination devices needn't necessarily be Reaper tech. Cerberus fiddles around with Indoctrination too for their own purposes.

[Raveyn]

lavosslayer wrote...

Raveyn wrote...

lavosslayer wrote...

humes spork wrote...

lavosslayer wrote...

We already established though that everyone else in the crew was already on the ship doing the refit so it would make sense...

No, there's a point there. If Eva were the source of the Reaper tech, then it follows none of the people involved in the Normandy refit would have been previously exposed to it. If the Reaper tech or an Indoctrination device came from another source, then EDI would have known about it even if the crew themselves never found it and undoubtedly said something to someone

I see your point and raise you a question of why wouldn't EDI detect the Reaper Tech in the cyber body when it was brought on board the Normandy?

She wouldn't detect it becaise EDI is the Reaper Tech?  (And no, I'm not saying she's aware of what's happening)

It's stated in ME2 and again in ME3 that she has Reaper programming built into her.  If that's the case, wouldn't it follow that she is the Indoctrination device? (She also being the Normandy?)  Hell, Shepard has so much contact with the Reapers that this wouldn't even be needed as a plot device, but it sure does fit.

I think we are saying the same thing

Either

A) she is the reaper tech

there is no reaper device on the ship at all

or
C) since she is part reaper tech, any device brought onboard isn't detected as its deemed harmless due to the (whoa this just popped in my head) underlying IFF subroutines that she incorporated from the the deralict Reaper!?

C) and especially the Bolded section = Exactly what I was trying to get at. 

So yes, I think we're both saying the same thing. 

Modifié par Raveyn, 11 mars 2012 - 04:43 .

[littleork]

krystalevenstar wrote...

Something has been digging at me a bit about the Normandy crash ending. It seems like it's an uninhabited jungle planet, yet in all the versions of my ending, on the upper left side of the last scene when they're looking at the planets in the sky, you can clearly see some sort of construct/building. Definitely out of place in the jungle scene. I'll try to get a screencap somewhere and show what I'm talking about.

 
Yeah i just watched it on youtube, its kinda unclear if its a big rock or building but it could be for sure

[FFZero]

Honestly if the endings do all turn out to be hallucinations from indoctrination Mass Effects writers are some of the craftiest buggers ever to walk the earth. If however this was not their original intention it could be an easy way for them to change the endings.

Modifié par FFZero, 11 mars 2012 - 04:46 .

[Mx_CN3]

I was always wondering how The Illusive Man just... appeared on the Citadel.

[krystalevenstar]

lookingglassmind wrote...

krystalevenstar wrote...

Something has been digging at me a bit about the Normandy crash ending. It seems like it's an uninhabited jungle planet, yet in all the versions of my ending, on the upper left side of the last scene when they're looking at the planets in the sky, you can clearly see some sort of construct/building. Definitely out of place in the jungle scene. I'll try to get a screencap somewhere and show what I'm talking about.

Really? Hmm! I don't remember this. (And I remember scanning like a crazy person trying to find something I could identify on the horizon).

I've got the 360 version, so I can't get a picture yet since my boyfriend is in the room and he's still playing ME2. Driving me crazy I can't discuss all this insanity with him XD

[Ormeriel]

I just reread the indoctrination codex entry.

Indeed it describes exactly the dream and hallucination Shepard has, as well as the pain and headache he seems to have in ME 3.

It would also explain the humming Vega mentions as it is part of the indoctrination process.