Aller au contenu

Photo

Was the ending a hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory


57139 réponses à ce sujet

#10451
yagaelvin

yagaelvin
  • Members
  • 91 messages

Erethrian wrote...

And here goes my hope... :(

rorako wrote...

http://www.digitaltr...-controversies/

For those that don't want to read the entire interview, I'll copy and paste the question and answer here.

What are your thoughts on the reaction to the game’s endings?
I didn’t want the game to be forgettable, and even right down to the
sort of polarizing reaction that the ends have had with people–debating
what the endings mean and what’s going to happen next, and what
situation are the characters left in. That to me is part of what’s
exciting about this story. There has always been a little bit of mystery
there and a little bit of interpretation, and it’s a story that people
can talk about after the fact.


Actually all that he really says is that he wanted the ending to be something we'll talk and argue about for a long time. In that regard, he was right! 

Have you read this thread yet?  Thought it was a little interesting

#10452
lex0r11

lex0r11
  • Members
  • 2 190 messages

SomeoneStoleMyName wrote...

 If the indoctrination theory is true, anyone else hoping for a redemption option for the illusive man?
IMO it would be cool if you get renegade option to kill him later, or paragon option to forgive him. Where if you are a vengeful ****** your love interest sacrifice herself for you, but if you choose paragon the illusive man sacrifices himself instead. 
I really love the Illusive mans character and would hope for him to realize how empty and meaningless all his sacrifices and lust for power were. Sure it would be cliche, but this is how I'd hope it turns out.
You end up fighting Harbinger physically, then you have to make your escape because of an incomming explosion were there are someone who needs to operate a blast door. Killing him meaning your LI will sacrifice herself or you die with her, but if the illusive man doing it it would go down like this:

Illusive man: I have this Shepard.
Illusive mans eyes glow (sovereign): Assuming direct control.
Illusive man resists and starts bleeding out his ears and eyes.
Illusive man: Run Shepard.
Shepard: What if you cant...
Illusive man: I can hold SHepard, RUN!
Illusive man eyes glow yellow again (Sovereign): ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL
Shepard: Illusive man?
Illusive man fights off again and looks at shepard: My name is (Reveals real name, to denounce his existence as Illusive man and for the first time in long acknowledge his old self)
Shepard: Despite all you have done... I wont forget this (real name) (Runs inside blast doors)
Sovereign voice spoken by Illusive man: Resistance is futile, think of the power I can grant you. Surrender yourself.
Illusive man: You know, we are the same you and I. Look at our power and our ability to shape things and control the ones around us, what has it given us? Nothing. We are just as empty. I dont hate you, I pity you.

Blast doors close and the Illusive man falls to his knees, eyes glowing.

Illusive man whispers: "I renounce you..." as he falls dead bleeding out his eyes, ears and nose.

The Illusive man was extremely smart, and had good intentions gone bad. I would really like the end for him to be him reuniting with his humanity and resisting his indoctrination.






good ideas just keep coming.

#10453
Dessalines

Dessalines
  • Members
  • 607 messages

Since people are posting Arrival dlc stuff. If you let the time run down, one of things that never made  sense that he see all of his crew and the IM standing together in a location together. I can't tell if that is Kelly Chambers or a Femshep turning into a Husk at the end either
Also in Arrival the Reapers are trying to keep him alive, and you still talk to Harbringer. Every game has this one on one conversation with the Reaper, but this one doesn't?

.

Modifié par Dessalines, 14 mars 2012 - 08:16 .


#10454
xZBx

xZBx
  • Members
  • 275 messages
I have a question, have we decidedly established that the little kid that 'dies' is indeed a "planted seed" of sorts by a Reaper agent? When you see the kid getting into the shuttle, no one seems to tend for him, and he is surrounded by alliance soldiers, in fact, the alliance soldiers are too busy helping out a grown man on to transport rather than aiding the stranded child, he hops on on his own. Thoughts? Or is this just icing on the cake? Also, every time Shepard wakes up from these "nightmares" on the ship, the same gesture of catching his breath in desperation occurs just like when you breathe in after you destroy the reapers.

If this is indeed a set up for a wholesome ending to come, it's definitely a stroke of brilliance. Also, Bioware's had a knack for giving us meaningful conversations with the Reapers in part 1 and 2[eh, kinda in this one]. Since they are the main threat/focus in this game more than ever, excluding the short convo you have with a non-critical reaper character on Rannoch, you never get to speak with Harbinger. This is something I looked forward to when playing me3 and it never happened, which I guess leaves room for it to occur in the hopeful end of all endings.

#10455
Abram730

Abram730
  • Members
  • 374 messages

Sl4sh3r wrote...

Abram730 wrote...

Since you need a high battle rediness and to choose destroy ending.. many people will choose other endings..

I think it will be this

cru·ci·ble
2. A severe test, as of patience or belief; a trial.

Matthew 7
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

It's symbolism here people.. The crucible, The beam in your eye.
It's our fate we choose.. Not the galaxies.

What is a synthesis of organic and synthetic? A husk
What is merging with reapers? Indoctrination.

Shepard as a Boss fight ouch.


This is... Interesting...

Also
United States Marine Corps Recruit Training
"On the final day of the Crucible, recruits are awoken and begin their final march (including "The Reaper" a forced march up a steeply inclined hill to the top of Edson's Ridge on the west coast)."

#10456
bboynexus

bboynexus
  • Members
  • 1 486 messages

Abram730 wrote...

Since you need a high battle rediness and to choose destroy ending.. many people will choose other endings..

I think it will be this

cru·ci·ble
2. A severe test, as of patience or belief; a trial.

Matthew 7
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

It's symbolism here people.. The crucible, The beam in your eye.
It's our fate we choose.. Not the galaxies.

What is a synthesis of organic and synthetic? A husk
What is merging with reapers? Indoctrination.

Shepard as a Boss fight ouch.


It's important people see this, I think.

#10457
Novouto

Novouto
  • Members
  • 98 messages
You know, I don't really know what to think about the 1m1 = March 15 thing, but why are Earth letters and numbers in an unexplored part of the citadel? I think that gives the idea it's all some weird fever dream some credibility.

#10458
Moshaaver

Moshaaver
  • Members
  • 56 messages

devSin wrote...

BringBackNihlus wrote...

Not going to lie; Jessica Merizan is being pretty coy about all of this, and I actually find it hilarious. Hope her remarks are more than words, though.

Didn't she already basically say that she doesn't know?

You may interpret it as "being pretty coy", but I honestly think she's just interacting with the community. She's not dropping hints or trying to dance around specific information; like she said "I'm not a dev."

She doesn't know any more than you what the truth is.


I imagine she would be briefed at some point. 

#10459
yagaelvin

yagaelvin
  • Members
  • 91 messages

Niemack Saarinen wrote...

[Yeah lest we forget about the global "Space Edition" launches.  For sake of PR they are enjoying people talking about it, the more the merrier, more press more news.    So yeah still think its a stunt, the ending(s) are laughably full of inaccuracies.


Exactly.  For all the people who say that Bioware wouldn't be this creative in planning something like this, remember that these are the same people who thought up the "space launch" . So who knows......

Modifié par yagaelvin, 14 mars 2012 - 08:17 .


#10460
MissMaster_2

MissMaster_2
  • Members
  • 1 010 messages
There are just too many things in the end for people to say that BW really meant that to be reality. I don't think there will be a DLC I think they figured their fans should be able to notice something was up with the end and they wanted to leave it open. So we can fill in the blanks.

#10461
gunneybobbysosay

gunneybobbysosay
  • Members
  • 2 messages
With respect and appreciation to all...
BioWare or EA thank you for Mass effect 1, 2, &3 LOVE IT! You can do no wrong accept not making more and more...cheers!
To the creators thank you for all the Mass Effect series...it is the greatest multimedia experience I ever experienced and I enjoyed it all thank you! The following is a light hear ted look at all the controversial fun of the ME3 ending I hope you enjoy...
Breaking news exclusive: No Spoilers...
That is weird everyone got something other completely then I did in my game, as it happened I got
"The sad ending" first...1st Ending no spoilers (ALLIANCE command says it's to late, Liara tells Sheppard that she's pregnant, and then an overwhelming feeling of dread rains in upon my femShep then goes dark..! I awake alone at first but I since not alone at all...I find with me there is a dead joker as well as a erased non functioning EDI, then Liara shows up on the monitor to tell me she is leaving me for her true love and the babies real farther her true love is the illusive man and they were riding off into paradise as I mine the babies, indoctrinated babies hundreds of them or more beyond count and I am stuck on the Normandy with them all....)
2nd Ending No Spoilers: (Upon my second play through I got the "The Scooby-Doo ending..."
Anderson pulls off the man size Harbingers face to reveal the Illusive man aka old man winters, of the citadel amusement park...he used smoke and mirrors to as well as a projector to fool us in to thinking their was a monster and he could rule the galaxy as the crazy old amusement park weirdo the illusive man shouted "I would have got away with too it if it wasn't for Sheppard’s and those damn kids!!!"
Upon my third play through I finally got The Mega-Happy ending
the council announced Starting tomorrow, my fem Shep has a six album multi-Billion dollar recording reality show contract with a two picture vide deal for any production I wanted the lead role in...Vegas baby Vegas!
I guess we really do have unique experiences based on are choices..! thanks Wayne's'World wayne's world Wayne's world it's party time excellent!

#10462
Reptilian Rob

Reptilian Rob
  • Members
  • 5 964 messages

bboynexus wrote...

Abram730 wrote...

Since you need a high battle rediness and to choose destroy ending.. many people will choose other endings..

I think it will be this

cru·ci·ble
2. A severe test, as of patience or belief; a trial.

Matthew 7
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

It's symbolism here people.. The crucible, The beam in your eye.
It's our fate we choose.. Not the galaxies.

What is a synthesis of organic and synthetic? A husk
What is merging with reapers? Indoctrination.

Shepard as a Boss fight ouch.


It's important people see this, I think.

Also worth noting that a "Crucible" is also a state of mind and a place of reverance, so it could also just be an allegory for the starchild. 

"A place, time, or situation characterized by the confluence of powerful intellectual, social, economic, or political forces."

Modifié par Reptilian Rob, 14 mars 2012 - 08:17 .


#10463
Elendstourist

Elendstourist
  • Members
  • 79 messages
It's been 9 hourse since my last visit here and the thread has grown really fast, but I have to say: The tweet with


"@jakefinn94 Mike Gamble already said on his twitter, if the fans knew what was in store, the reaction would be different."

is still very convincing to me.

#10464
Emperor_Ike

Emperor_Ike
  • Members
  • 178 messages

Moshaaver wrote...

devSin wrote...

BringBackNihlus wrote...

Not going to lie; Jessica Merizan is being pretty coy about all of this, and I actually find it hilarious. Hope her remarks are more than words, though.

Didn't she already basically say that she doesn't know?

You may interpret it as "being pretty coy", but I honestly think she's just interacting with the community. She's not dropping hints or trying to dance around specific information; like she said "I'm not a dev."

She doesn't know any more than you what the truth is.


I imagine she would be briefed at some point. 


They're all also saying things like, "can't say, have to keep the feed spoiler free!" So it really could just be 'coy.'

#10465
Reptilian Rob

Reptilian Rob
  • Members
  • 5 964 messages

Elendstourist wrote...

It's been 9 hourse since my last visit here and the thread has grown really fast, but I have to say: The tweet with


"@jakefinn94 Mike Gamble already said on his twitter, if the fans knew what was in store, the reaction would be different."

is still very convincing to me.

I'm taking that tweet at face value, she could just be alluding to DLC or even more SP content that isn't the ending. 

#10466
Ravax

Ravax
  • Members
  • 77 messages
WHAT DA SPOCK DID I JUST READ???

gunneybobbysosay wrote...

With respect and appreciation to all...
BioWare or EA thank you for Mass effect 1, 2, &3 LOVE IT! You can do no wrong accept not making more and more...cheers!
To the creators thank you for all the Mass Effect series...it is the greatest multimedia experience I ever experienced and I enjoyed it all thank you! The following is a light hear ted look at all the controversial fun of the ME3 ending I hope you enjoy...
Breaking news exclusive: No Spoilers...
That is weird everyone got something other completely then I did in my game, as it happened I got
"The sad ending" first...1st Ending no spoilers (ALLIANCE command says it's to late, Liara tells Sheppard that she's pregnant, and then an overwhelming feeling of dread rains in upon my femShep then goes dark..! I awake alone at first but I since not alone at all...I find with me there is a dead joker as well as a erased non functioning EDI, then Liara shows up on the monitor to tell me she is leaving me for her true love and the babies real farther her true love is the illusive man and they were riding off into paradise as I mine the babies, indoctrinated babies hundreds of them or more beyond count and I am stuck on the Normandy with them all....)
2nd Ending No Spoilers: (Upon my second play through I got the "The Scooby-Doo ending..."
Anderson pulls off the man size Harbingers face to reveal the Illusive man aka old man winters, of the citadel amusement park...he used smoke and mirrors to as well as a projector to fool us in to thinking their was a monster and he could rule the galaxy as the crazy old amusement park weirdo the illusive man shouted "I would have got away with too it if it wasn't for Sheppard’s and those damn kids!!!"
Upon my third play through I finally got The Mega-Happy ending
the council announced Starting tomorrow, my fem Shep has a six album multi-Billion dollar recording reality show contract with a two picture vide deal for any production I wanted the lead role in...Vegas baby Vegas!
I guess we really do have unique experiences based on are choices..! thanks Wayne's'World wayne's world Wayne's world it's party time excellent!



#10467
Earthborn_Shepard

Earthborn_Shepard
  • Members
  • 1 306 messages
The thing that currently bugs me the most is that BioWare would never end a game like that. If this was meant to be the final ending of an epic trilogy, they would rather make an half hour epilogue than "kthxbai"

#10468
Erethrian

Erethrian
  • Members
  • 484 messages

yagaelvin wrote...

Erethrian wrote...

And here goes my hope... :(

rorako wrote...

http://www.digitaltr...-controversies/

For those that don't want to read the entire interview, I'll copy and paste the question and answer here.

What are your thoughts on the reaction to the game’s endings?
I didn’t want the game to be forgettable, and even right down to the
sort of polarizing reaction that the ends have had with people–debating
what the endings mean and what’s going to happen next, and what
situation are the characters left in. That to me is part of what’s
exciting about this story. There has always been a little bit of mystery
there and a little bit of interpretation, and it’s a story that people
can talk about after the fact.


Actually all that he really says is that he wanted the ending to be something we'll talk and argue about for a long time. In that regard, he was right! 

Have you read this thread yet?  Thought it was a little interesting


Haven't, the hope's here again!

Thanks for the link. I missed some "tweets". :)


But, now we know this clearly is hallucination, dream or indoctrination (I think it's the last one). So, have we to wait 3 months or something to get our single-player DLC to end the game? I don't believe in the 1M1 theory yet, at least not in the March 15th theory.

#10469
kyg_20X6

kyg_20X6
  • Members
  • 854 messages
One thing that really gets me is the choices you have to make. Every previous game goes to pains to explain to you why something is needed, what it does, what you have to do, etc. Think Vigil on Ilos explaining the Conduit or the plan to take out the Collector Base. There are no explain 'push magic button' solutions. It is all explained, all understood.

But when the the Starchild gives you the choices there is no explanation. There is no explanation of what exactly the Catalyst is, who created it, why it looks like it does. There is no explanation why, if the Catalyst is needed to activate the Crucibil, the Starchild can't do it. There is no explanation how jumping into a stream of energy coming from this giant weapon will (or could possibly) merge every organic and synthetic in the galaxy. Or how grabbing some circuits will give you reaper control. Or shooting some tank destroys them. They all seem metaphoric.

Shepard proceeds to the Catalyst virtually uninhibited. Three Husks and one Maruader (that shoots you once, c'mon!) - token resistance to make it not seem to easy (if you just walked in you'd be suspicious). Then absolutely no enemies inside, clear run to the console. Shepard just accepts everything, like it's a dream. The Illusive Man arrives and his 'power' of you and Anderson seems like an attempt to convince Shepard that control is possible. If Shepard is resolute, Anderson is shot in attempt to weaken them. If Shepard still resists they fight off this attempt and 'TIM' is killed. 'Anderson' then dies and 'Hackett' informs Shepard that it doesn't work. This seems like more attempts to break Shepard down, which seems to work as s/he collapses.

Then - VOILA! - a floating platform (where is this tech from!?) comes out of nowhere and takes Shepard to the next challenge. This time, we are presented with a more sympathetic face - the little kid. Who attempts to convince us (and often successfully, be honest!) that destroying the Reapers is wrong, you NEED synthetics (despite saying he made the reapers so synthetics won't become a problem!), then plays on your possible feelings concerning friendly synthetics. He then tries to sell you control and (despite saying TIM could never control them) he says you could control the Reapers (with NO explanation why!) and there will be peace. He then proposes synthises of organic and synthetic as the best option (which also happens to be what a Reaper is!). And all you have do, apparently, to fulfil your choice is some simple action like jumping in a beam of light, or shooting a tank. How it works? Who cares, Shepard? You can 'stop the Reapers' with one simple action.

To me this is so obviously an attempt to decieve Shepard. And every choice is an attempt to draw Shepard away from destroying the Reapers to ideas of control and synthesis (the mantra of TIM and Saren). Couple this with the fact that when you destroy the Reapers you wake up...

I mean, c'mon!

Also, I'm curious as to whether you get the Stargazer scene if you choose the lowest ending and destroy the Reapers it destroys Earth. I mean, wouldn't that put a dint in the chances of old man river being around in the future to tell the tale. And why would any child want to hear the tale of how Shepard ****ed up?

Anyway, the above stands out to me and coupled with everything else and the fact that the game makes so much sense up UNTIL THIS VERY LAST, WEIRD -ASS, DREAM-'LIKE' SEQUENCE! As well as all the BW teasings. There has got to be something going on here!

Also, I think this thread is starting to lose it's focus. We're starting to overanalyze things like the artwork image, the trees, etc. I think we've made all the solid points. Now we just need to keep bugging BW on Twitter about it until we get an answer!

#10470
Elendstourist

Elendstourist
  • Members
  • 79 messages

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Elendstourist wrote...

It's been 9 hourse since my last visit here and the thread has grown really fast, but I have to say: The tweet with


"@jakefinn94 Mike Gamble already said on his twitter, if the fans knew what was in store, the reaction would be different."

is still very convincing to me.

I'm taking that tweet at face value, she could just be alluding to DLC or even more SP content that isn't the ending. 


The fans reaction she is talking about has to be the rage about the ending. What other reactions could she refer to? The positive ones? Don't think so.

#10471
J4N3_M3

J4N3_M3
  • Members
  • 2 308 messages
I would also like to point out that Shepard is wearing armor, or what's left of it. So the evidence that Shepard isn't wearing armor is not there.

#10472
FrostByte-GER

FrostByte-GER
  • Members
  • 140 messages
Any new news or results?

#10473
Lurchibald

Lurchibald
  • Members
  • 178 messages

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

The thing that currently bugs me the most is that BioWare would never end a game like that. If this was meant to be the final ending of an epic trilogy, they would rather make an half hour epilogue than "kthxbai"


I take it you haven't played DA2? That end was basically "You and your companions went their seperate ways" (no other information given)

#10474
MissMaster_2

MissMaster_2
  • Members
  • 1 010 messages

J4N3_M3 wrote...

I would also like to point out that Shepard is wearing armor, or what's left of it. So the evidence that Shepard isn't wearing armor is not there.


Yes but the armor changes, no mater what it is the normal black N7. Why would they randomly get lazy and say "well f*** it!"

Modifié par MissMaster_2, 14 mars 2012 - 08:24 .


#10475
Guest_SDFGSDFGSD_*

Guest_SDFGSDFGSD_*
  • Guests
Personal log: damini sengupta

Attemps are ongoing at figuring out what the end product of our research was meant for. Wile it is obvious that the delivery system was to be implant-reliant, with evident neurological applications, many questions remain as of yet unanswered. The loss of dr Horace Armstrong in particular is hindering our efforts to speedily reconstruct the nature of the illusive mans goals. We have several parts of the whole, which lead us to chilling conclusions. But we are nowhere near figuring out what said whole might be --and that is what scares me the most.....

Implant-reliant with evident neurological applications..........


Found at the base with the ex-Cerberus scientists.

TIM trying to indoctrinate Shepard perhaps?

^_^^_^

Actually probably just. About all indoctrination of Cerberus forces.   But the implant made me wonder because of shepards rebuilding

Modifié par ageofadrian, 14 mars 2012 - 08:25 .