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Was the ending a hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory


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#10701
Thermorium

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Tibiilicious wrote...

kyrieee wrote...

coruptai125 wrote...

Tibiilicious wrote...

You know that iOS app that sends you updates and texts from the games' characters as you proceed throughout the game.

You get sent this message from you LI after you beat it.

i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb390/becspics03/photo.png

So ...dlc with extended ending ?


Sounds like her texting you from the hospital. Also those texts in codex are really stupid.


It certainly does not
It sounds like she's texting you when YOU'RE in the hospital


The person above me right, you only get this text AFTER you've beaten the game, this implies YOU are in the hospital, not Ashley.


Because the app was released after most people (and i'm assuming the original poster as well) completed the game, wouldn't that screw up the order in which you receive the mails?

#10702
Tony_Knightcrawler

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"This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we're taking into account so many decisions that you've made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It's not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.


LOL Actually, it's EXACTLY like getting A, B, or C ending. Hahahahaha.


As far as the iOS thing, I haven't beaten it since I got it, but it has "recent" texts as early as Horizon, which isn't very early. I'm not gonna replay the entire game to see all those texts. :-P I got nothing after beating the game, though. I guess I could beat the last part again and see if anything happens. Not tonight, though.

#10703
Sheparded

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With the ios device message, i think that puts strong evidence on the indoctrination theory

#10704
Tony_Knightcrawler

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How COULD Ash see you in the hospital? If the game's ending is literal, she's stranded on some far-off planet because the Normandy's engines are busted. If the indoctrination theory is correct... UGH how... who would have recovered your body in that hell-hole? If paramedics could get to your body, then people could easily get to the beam. What does this mean, your team or other soldiers got to the beam and beat the Reapers all by themselves?

#10705
JulienJaden

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I think one of the most important points right now is Casey Hudson's pre-release statement about the ending being more sophisticated and complex than A, B, C, with everything being taken into account.
There's two options: Either he's pulling our chain with that statement from today (and they really need to stop that **** cause if they keep it up for a couple more days, I'll just stop buying any Bioware products out of protest, no matter the quality) or he is a lying bastard (which will definitely hurt the company because that would disrupt the relationship they have with their community). They simply can't afford delivering a ****ty, blatantly linear ending after all the hype and promises, because every single one of them who's in their right mind would have said "Guys, the choices are cool and all, but they are too similar". If Bioware is seriously telling us that this is the best they could come up with, that this is what they wanted to go with and that they honestly don't think there is something fundamentally wrong with how the endings play out and how they are presented, then I think we cannot expect Bioware to produce storylines of high-quality in the future anymore. It would completely devaluate what Bioware stands for and THAT is definitely economic suicide.

#10706
holyshock18

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Just woke. Any new Information?

#10707
Astarotte24

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Tibiilicious wrote...

kyrieee wrote...

coruptai125 wrote...

Tibiilicious wrote...

You know that iOS app that sends you updates and texts from the games' characters as you proceed throughout the game.

You get sent this message from you LI after you beat it.

i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb390/becspics03/photo.png

So ...dlc with extended ending ?


Sounds like her texting you from the hospital. Also those texts in codex are really stupid.


It certainly does not
It sounds like she's texting you when YOU'RE in the hospital


The person above me right, you only get this text AFTER you've beaten the game, this implies YOU are in the hospital, not Ashley.




Hang in there -> Means Shepard is in trouble not Ash. Also if Ash would be in hospital it woudn't be adressed Skipper but Commander.

Again this backs up the indoctrination ending. Means shepard is in hospital after being hit by reaper beam. Also it might mean that while his body is in hospital his mind is not (Control/Synthesis ending). Hang in there might mean that Ash wants to help Sheppard the same way he did when she was unconscious.

#10708
Tibiilicious

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Thermorium wrote...

Tibiilicious wrote...

kyrieee wrote...

coruptai125 wrote...

Tibiilicious wrote...

You know that iOS app that sends you updates and texts from the games' characters as you proceed throughout the game.

You get sent this message from you LI after you beat it.

i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb390/becspics03/photo.png

So ...dlc with extended ending ?


Sounds like her texting you from the hospital. Also those texts in codex are really stupid.


It certainly does not
It sounds like she's texting you when YOU'RE in the hospital


The person above me right, you only get this text AFTER you've beaten the game, this implies YOU are in the hospital, not Ashley.


Because the app was released after most people (and i'm assuming the original poster as well) completed the game, wouldn't that screw up the order in which you receive the mails?


Why would Ash yell you to ''Hang in there'' because you are fighting the reapers and she's hoping she can join you again very soon ?.  The text also states ''They might actually let me see you today'', implying that Shepard is in the hospital after he got hit with Harbinger's beam, and that the ending is an hallicunation/indoctrination.  That's my take on it atleast.

#10709
nranola

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PyroByte wrote...

coruptai125 wrote...

Tibiilicious wrote...

You know that iOS app that sends you updates and texts from the games' characters as you proceed throughout the game.

You get sent this message from you LI after you beat it.

i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb390/becspics03/photo.png

So ...dlc with extended ending ?


Sounds like her texting you from the hospital. Also those texts in codex are really stupid.


If people only get these messages from Ash or Kaidan then I think you might be right. But if someone got a message like this from Liara, Garrus or Tali then there might be hope.

I tried it with Kaidan as my LI and I didn't receive any post-game messages. :/

#10710
Geraro

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N7Kopper wrote...

I saw this thread, and thought that if we really cracked it that quickly (before the game even came out in my country) they'd renege on this idea.
But most people don't realise how much goddamn sense this makes. This makes me hold hope that it'll still happen.

Fooled me. It did. It really, really did. Damn it, I'm Saren. ¬_¬


Warning - wall of text approaching - for the attention deficient my tl:dr response is:

You aren't the only one mate. I fell right into starkids trap.

/Wall of Text>

I had been hoping that BW would introduce some more grey in this game, to make things not so clear cut paragon = good, renegade = evil. To my disappointment, it seemed like another series of clear cut moral choices throughout the entire game. Then they hit me with this right at the end.

Basic sales psych - gave me 'his' least prefered option first, destroying the reapers, and paint it in a negative light. Then hits me up with 'controlling the reapers' which seemed like the renegade choice attempting to grasp power despite the blue 'paragon' light. Then the coup de grace - oh the best ending for everyone is for noble paragon shepherd to sacrifice himself via synthesis, machines and organics can all live happily ever after if you do this and it will end the cycle.....

So of course I go hurling myself off into oblivion thinking I'm doing the right thing. Face starts to turn black, eyes start to turn blue and next thing I know I get a dodgy ending sequence and a brief epilogue that makes no logical sense. Then I yelled for a bit, ranted at the injustice, at the plot holes, at the lack of exposition etc....

Then I sat there for ten minutes recovering from the kick in the daddybags I had just received, and I started to think about what I had just chosen for my Shep.... this is what the Reapers wanted all along - "WE ARE YOUR SALVATION THROUGH DESTRUCTION" - I had just done a Saren. 

When I jumped on the boards and saw the outrage and anger, I could truly appreciate it - this is not how it should end. People point out that the writing and character development of this series was excellent and it truly drew them into the world of Shep and Mass Effect. The anger seems to be driven by not understanding how it was possible for BW to drop the ball so badly so close to the end. Thinking back to what I was feeling as I finished the game, what they have done with the "ending" as I experienced is nothing short of frightening. They evoked very strong feelings of anger, confusion, denial, etc. Despite the legitimate claims that this is due to plot holes and logic issues, it is amazing the level of emotion they have generated by their story. 

There are more than enough clues and hints throughout the game and in the ending sequence to support the 'indoctrination theory' as it is called. I have no doubt this is deliberate on BWs part. It is possible they intend on leaving it here, essentially a Soprano's or Lost style of ending - leaving fans to debate and argue forever. OR (hopefully) this is all part of the plan to create a cliffhanger end via DLC/unlocked console content.

Of course there are plenty of criticisms about either scenario - either they greatly misunderstood the need for closure the majority of their fanbase has or they greatly misunderstood the rage that would be generated by a cliffhanger. In an ideal situation I would have fell for starkids trap once, figured it out, reloaded, chose destroy and then into the actual ending sequence. Would have been one of the most brilliant tricks played on the player themselves in my experience of playing videogames.

Instead we have a very nasty situation developing with people apparently selling/returning the game in protest, game journalists and fans taking to each other with vitriole and BW mouthpieces unable to do anything most likely due to NDA stipulations which will hold until a particular point in time (hopefully the release of the extra content).

It will be very sad if one of the greatest sci fi stories told via this medium is only remembered due to the furore of the final 10 minutes....

/Wall of Text>

#10711
Spectre-61

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Tibiilicious wrote...

Thermorium wrote...

Tibiilicious wrote...

kyrieee wrote...

coruptai125 wrote...

Tibiilicious wrote...

You know that iOS app that sends you updates and texts from the games' characters as you proceed throughout the game.

You get sent this message from you LI after you beat it.

i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb390/becspics03/photo.png

So ...dlc with extended ending ?


Sounds like her texting you from the hospital. Also those texts in codex are really stupid.


It certainly does not
It sounds like she's texting you when YOU'RE in the hospital


The person above me right, you only get this text AFTER you've beaten the game, this implies YOU are in the hospital, not Ashley.


Because the app was released after most people (and i'm assuming the original poster as well) completed the game, wouldn't that screw up the order in which you receive the mails?


Why would Ash yell you to ''Hang in there'' because you are fighting the reapers and she's hoping she can join you again very soon ?.  The text also states ''They might actually let me see you today'', implying that Shepard is in the hospital after he got hit with Harbinger's beam, and that the ending is an hallicunation/indoctrination.  That's my take on it atleast.


I remember that Kaidan sent me a message when he was in the hospital that looked quite similar with "They might actually let me see you today'". But that "Hang in there" is a bit confusing.

#10712
Harorrd

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www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-03-14-bioware-responds-to-mass-effect-3-ending-furore

Looks like they give give a sht, they are going to give us Multiplayer Dlc mappacks, and other crap...

#10713
IronsteffL

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nranola wrote...

PyroByte wrote...

coruptai125 wrote...

Tibiilicious wrote...

You know that iOS app that sends you updates and texts from the games' characters as you proceed throughout the game.

You get sent this message from you LI after you beat it.

i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb390/becspics03/photo.png

So ...dlc with extended ending ?


Sounds like her texting you from the hospital. Also those texts in codex are really stupid.


If people only get these messages from Ash or Kaidan then I think you might be right. But if someone got a message like this from Liara, Garrus or Tali then there might be hope.

I tried it with Kaidan as my LI and I didn't receive any post-game messages. :/


Because I don't know if anyone read what I was writing: there is no message from Liara either ^^

#10714
kyrieee

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People in another thread confirmed you get those MSGs at the start of the game.
So, false alarm

#10715
Bobrzy

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Thermorium wrote...

Tibiilicious wrote...

kyrieee wrote...

coruptai125 wrote...

Tibiilicious wrote...

You know that iOS app that sends you updates and texts from the games' characters as you proceed throughout the game.

You get sent this message from you LI after you beat it.

i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb390/becspics03/photo.png

So ...dlc with extended ending ?


Sounds like her texting you from the hospital. Also those texts in codex are really stupid.


It certainly does not
It sounds like she's texting you when YOU'RE in the hospital


The person above me right, you only get this text AFTER you've beaten the game, this implies YOU are in the hospital, not Ashley.


Because the app was released after most people (and i'm assuming the original poster as well) completed the game, wouldn't that screw up the order in which you receive the mails?

In this picture, we can see Ash saying "They might acctually let me see you today". So Shep is in hospital, because if Ash was there it would've stated "They might acctually let YOU see ME today".

Also: "Hang in there". It's not something you say to a healthy person walking out of the hospital to the ship. You tell that to someone who's in danger, in this case - danger of losing life. It plays along with my previous statement.

#10716
Harorrd

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Posted Image

#10717
Thermorium

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Tibiilicious wrote...

Thermorium wrote...

Tibiilicious wrote...

kyrieee wrote...

coruptai125 wrote...

Tibiilicious wrote...

You know that iOS app that sends you updates and texts from the games' characters as you proceed throughout the game.

You get sent this message from you LI after you beat it.

i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb390/becspics03/photo.png

So ...dlc with extended ending ?


Sounds like her texting you from the hospital. Also those texts in codex are really stupid.


It certainly does not
It sounds like she's texting you when YOU'RE in the hospital


The person above me right, you only get this text AFTER you've beaten the game, this implies YOU are in the hospital, not Ashley.


Because the app was released after most people (and i'm assuming the original poster as well) completed the game, wouldn't that screw up the order in which you receive the mails?


Why would Ash yell you to ''Hang in there'' because you are fighting the reapers and she's hoping she can join you again very soon ?.  The text also states ''They might actually let me see you today'', implying that Shepard is in the hospital after he got hit with Harbinger's beam, and that the ending is an hallicunation/indoctrination.  That's my take on it atleast.


don't mind me, i'm just cautiously optimistic about all this. I want it to be true, no doubt. But I'd rather take everything presented as evidence here with a grain of salt. Not saying you couldn't be correct though

*edit* and now i want an iOS device to check this out myself =P

Modifié par Thermorium, 14 mars 2012 - 12:03 .


#10718
Astarotte24

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kyrieee wrote...

People in another thread confirmed you get those MSGs at the start of the game.
So, false alarm


If it would be early msg then Ash woudn't call Sheppard Skipper but Commander. It implies its late game/post ending.

#10719
Harorrd

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Harorrd wrote...

Posted Image




THis might give you hope young ones <3;)

#10720
Dessalines

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Thermorium wrote...

Tibiilicious wrote...

Thermorium wrote...

Tibiilicious wrote...

kyrieee wrote...

coruptai125 wrote...

Tibiilicious wrote...

You know that iOS app that sends you updates and texts from the games' characters as you proceed throughout the game.

You get sent this message from you LI after you beat it.

i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb390/becspics03/photo.png

So ...dlc with extended ending ?


Sounds like her texting you from the hospital. Also those texts in codex are really stupid.


It certainly does not
It sounds like she's texting you when YOU'RE in the hospital


The person above me right, you only get this text AFTER you've beaten the game, this implies YOU are in the hospital, not Ashley.


Because the app was released after most people (and i'm assuming the original poster as well) completed the game, wouldn't that screw up the order in which you receive the mails?


Why would Ash yell you to ''Hang in there'' because you are fighting the reapers and she's hoping she can join you again very soon ?.  The text also states ''They might actually let me see you today'', implying that Shepard is in the hospital after he got hit with Harbinger's beam, and that the ending is an hallicunation/indoctrination.  That's my take on it atleast.


don't mind me, i'm just cautiously optimistic about all this. I want it to be true, no doubt. But I'd rather take everything presented as evidence here with a grain of salt. Not saying you couldn't be correct though

*edit* and now i want an iOS device to check this out myself =P

Yeah, I just bought it, and I already beating the game. My last message is from Javik.

#10721
kyrieee

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Astarotte24 wrote...

kyrieee wrote...

People in another thread confirmed you get those MSGs at the start of the game.
So, false alarm


If it would be early msg then Ash woudn't call Sheppard Skipper but Commander. It implies its late game/post ending.


No, it's pre-invasion
Shepard is detained
http://social.biowar...index/9901420/7

#10722
EliseoRocha

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Well Casey Hudsen just said that the ending was intended to be the way it was. He said," [He] didn't want the game to be forgettable, and even right down to the sort of polarizing reaction that the ends have had with people–debating what the endings mean and what's going to happen next, and what situation are the characters left in." Guess this is all we're going to get...

Read the interview here... http://kotaku.com/58...he-games-ending

#10723
njfluffy19

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Astarotte24 wrote...

kyrieee wrote...

People in another thread confirmed you get those MSGs at the start of the game.
So, false alarm


If it would be early msg then Ash woudn't call Sheppard Skipper but Commander. It implies its late game/post ending.


I just got the app yesterday (a few days after I beat the game) and messages are still in relative order to the game. Garrus doesn't send any such message (:crying:) but I do think Ashley's words are telling. "Hang in there" and "Skipper" don't exactly fit with how she acted in the beginning of the game. As I recall, she was still pissy.

#10724
njfluffy19

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EliseoRocha wrote...

Well Casey Hudsen just said that the ending was intended to be the way it was. He said," [He] didn't want the game to be forgettable, and even right down to the sort of polarizing reaction that the ends have had with people–debating what the endings mean and what's going to happen next, and what situation are the characters left in." Guess this is all we're going to get...

Read the interview here... http://kotaku.com/58...he-games-ending


This had been addressed already...

It doesn't mean anything.

#10725
RPGmom28

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Why does Udina's famous quote, "Does political sh**storm mean anything to you?" spring to mind? I guess people better remember the ending pretty deeply considering many may never want to replay the game.