57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Golferguy758]

People who demanding casey and bioware directly answer questions now have clearly never been under a ****ing nda. They CAN'T say anything sdirectly without getting sued and committing career suicide

[Lurchibald]

Tailen wrote...

Hence "there are some really obvious things that are different and then lots and lots of smaller things".  That was the whole point in my sharing that quote.  To give context.  Which you seemed to cast aside as much as the first poster 

You're still talking big-picture, and ignoring "who lives and who dies, civilizations that rose and fell, all the way down to individual characters".

Also, if we're looking at those outcomes as an indoctrination attempt then it doesn't necessarily have to happen like that (though admittedly the "Stargazer" sequence leads us to believe it does on some level).

And here is the complete quote (Italics by me ):

"Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different (The endings we see aren't that much different). At this point we’re taking into account so many decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff (The ending we get doesn't reflect on anything we have done.). It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C. 

It’s more like there are some really obvious things that are different and then lots and lots of smaller things, lots of things about who lives and who dies (Who does live and die? It was never told in my ending who lived and died), civilizations that rose and fell (Again, we are never told how the Turian planet ended up, or what became of Illium or Thessia etc.), all the way down to individual characters (The only end thing I found out about individual characters is 1. Anderson died 2. TIM died 3. Mordin Died 3. Legion "Died" 4. Thane died and lastly 5. Joker and the two companions I took (Liara and Javik) on the last mission came off the crashed Normandy, No word on Wrex, Miranda, Jacob, Jack, Samara, EDI, Grunt, Garrus, Tali, Zaeed, Kasumi, Ashley, Doctor Chakwas among others). That becomes the state of where you left your galaxy. The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them (Again, the actual endings we are shown didn't). It would be interesting to see if somebody could put together a chart for that (Wouldn't be hard). Even with Mass Effect 2’s..."

[Bobrzy]

Denethar wrote...

http://masseffect.wi...LC_Revealed!!!!

Don't put too much weight on it, but it's an interesting theory.

Oh boy i hope it's true.

I love the "free" part. I hope it's true. ihopeihopeihope...

[Smiley556]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

Smiley556 wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

Stated it a bit further back but here:

Shepard, when fully aware of his surroundings and in an uncompromised mental state, is resistant to Reaper indoctrination. This is due to his strong will, driven by his goal in destroying the Reapers. Unlike control or synthesis, Shepard's goal of destroying the Reapers (no compromises, excuses, etc) isn't malleable.

However, when Shepard is asleep, or compromised mentally in some fashion (such as the trauma from Harbringer's attack), indoctrination can take place.

Key word is resistant. Immune/resistant, know the difference.

That was my point 

I know, I was just simplifying it for all the people who keep plucking the word immune out of nowhere and stapling it on shepard.

[Dwailing]

Golferguy758 wrote...

The people who ae using that interview really ned tostop. He's dodging the question because he and bioware still have tricks. Read jessic's twitter. Look beyond what is directly in front of you

I agree.  On the note about Bioware still having tricks, I had a thought last night.  Maybe Bioware was so serious about the ending being shaped by player decisions that they decided to put in this loopy ending to GENERATE fan speculation.  Then, once a single, popular theory has been chosen as the most likely, they will take that theory and use it to create an all new ending!  Of course, it is also possible that what they wanted to do was have a mystery for fans to discuss before they revealed the truth.  Either one would fit in with the coy nature with which Bioware's employies, minus Casey Hudson of course, are treating this situation.  The former theory might fit better given the way Jessica has responded to the questions.  This might also explain why people have been "converting" to the endings the way some have.  You know, how they no longer criticize the ending because they realize what Bioware has been planning all along.  In all honesty, if theory #1 is true, then this game would end up being quite possibly the greatest example of fan service in history.

[Noob451]

Icinix wrote...

Casey Hudson from Tailens post...

"Mass Effect 3 is the idea that we can let you feel something that is part of that character’s experience "

Mission Accomplished.

In a sense - that feeling of hopelessness - that feeling of no control...not being able to ask questions (the developers have abandoned the forums and twitter is cryptic at best and really only "glad you enjoyed it!" promo). Ultimately that feeling that what we did means nothing. Just like Shep would be feeling.

Every emotion we have as players right now - is the same emotions that Shep would be going through during this indoctrination process.

Quite frankly if this is what he meant, and I really believe it is, its brilliant. Risky and bat**** crazy...but brilliant.

that's what I believe.

[Lurchibald]

NICKjnp wrote...

I say again...he is immune to indoctrination. It was established in ME2. And he isn't controlling Shepard's thoughts...he is controlling his actions. There is a big difference between the two. I dislike the ending like everyone else but this idea that Shepard is indoctrinated goes against stated lore about Shepard.

Shepard being Immune is not an established fact, Resistant maybe, but not Immune. I would like to point out that if Sheps mind were that strong then how could his mind be destroyed by a simple organic like Morinth? 

[NotCras]

Dessalines wrote...

Phobius9 wrote...

Tailen wrote...

TL;DR -- Without the turn that it took and the lack of traditional closure, it never could have had this impact.  It never would have made us feel.

This.

When Thane dies, and my renagade Femshep asks why did the passage state she, and Thane's son states the prayer was for you. That made me feel. I am even reflected that my femshep had push that guy out the window on the mission to recruit Shep. I was not mad about Thane. Artistically, It was amazing.?
When Mordin dies, and he is singing his song. It made me feel. I know I could not story, but I was wondering if I made had told Mordin sooner he could have figured out something to save his life. instead it had to be him.  I am not mad about that choice. Artistically, It was amazing.?
When Kelly chambers died, because I forgot tell her to change her name, and I over hear people talking about how she was shot in the face by cerebus that even made me feel?
When Mirada dies that made me feel. That dam genetic Cerebus cheerleader.
Being able to kill Kei Lang was even better than allowing Alistair to be executed in Dragon Age.
From Kitsume asking if Jacob was back on the Normady, because she would come back for him,and basically all of her cameos, from all the cameos with your team from Mass Effect 2, and being able to talk to all of them that survive before your final battle in Mass Effect 3,  All of those scenes made me feel a little bit.
When you tell Garrus that even in heaven you have his back.....that was a good scene
For me, I am not looking for a happy ending. It just you have so many scenes that are constructed beautifully and then you have this ending that is not.
So, basically we have been Biowared. 

I also felt all those same times, Mordin is such a badass I was saying, the prayer was so touching and totally worthy of Thane to do. Miranda survived mine and I didnt meet Kelly unfortunately.  Katsume was great as usual, like when she faked death and shepard saw right through her, those are the awesome moments.  The totally awesome moments are the ones with the crew right before the last battle. Its truly amazing and totally fits a perfect ending, one that I think Bioware is hiding.

[byne]

Could someone either PM me the images of Shepard looking all huskified in the Control and Synthesis endings or just post them again?

Was gonna add them to the main post, but I lost them.

[Monochrome Wench]

The Sanctuary mission states that Adrenaline can be used as a catalyst in indoctrination. Shepard is running down the hill dodging harbys red beam of death attempting to reach the conduit. Shepard gets knocked out cold by the red beam of death. Shepards body is full of adrenaline leaving them in a very very suseptable state for indoctrination. Harbinger being only a few hundreds metres away attempts to fully indoctrinate Shepard. Success or failure is your, the players, choice. You just don't know it.

Modifié par Monochrome Wench, 14 mars 2012 - 02:52 .

[Noob451]

Bobrzy wrote...

Denethar wrote...

http://masseffect.wi...LC_Revealed!!!!

Don't put too much weight on it, but it's an interesting theory.

Oh boy i hope it's true.

I love the "free" part. I hope it's true. ihopeihopeihope...

It's a wiki, and not even an actual article so ehhh.... but i do hope it's true.

[Mr. Mistake]

Do you guys know about the Mass Effect dissertation? I found it was a very interesting read.

http://forums.steamp...d.php?t=2011810

Has he done anything on Mass Effect 3 yet?

[ArkkAngel007]

Smiley556 wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

Smiley556 wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

Stated it a bit further back but here:

Shepard, when fully aware of his surroundings and in an uncompromised mental state, is resistant to Reaper indoctrination. This is due to his strong will, driven by his goal in destroying the Reapers. Unlike control or synthesis, Shepard's goal of destroying the Reapers (no compromises, excuses, etc) isn't malleable.

However, when Shepard is asleep, or compromised mentally in some fashion (such as the trauma from Harbringer's attack), indoctrination can take place.

Key word is resistant. Immune/resistant, know the difference.

That was my point 

I know, I was just simplifying it for all the people who keep plucking the word immune out of nowhere and stapling it on shepard.

Just making sure.

And those still going on about the 4chan/GameFAQ "insights", all have stated that the issue with the ending is the leak, and that they purposely changed/half-***ed the ending due to the leaks.

So...why are the endings the same in all of the scripts as the endings we get in the game?  Read people. 

@ Mr. Mistake I don't believe he has at this time.  I think he did a quick abstract on what we knew about the game a bit before release, but I don't have it bookmarked or saved anywhere to pull it up to confirm.

Modifié par ArkkAngel007, 14 mars 2012 - 02:54 .

[JulienJaden]

Icinix wrote...

Casey Hudson from Tailens post...

"Mass Effect 3 is the idea that we can let you feel something that is part of that character’s experience "

Mission Accomplished.

In a sense - that feeling of hopelessness - that feeling of no control...not being able to ask questions (the developers have abandoned the forums and twitter is cryptic at best and really only "glad you enjoyed it!" promo). Ultimately that feeling that what we did means nothing. Just like Shep would be feeling.

Every emotion we have as players right now - is the same emotions that Shep would be going through during this indoctrination process.

Quite frankly if this is what he meant, and I really believe it is, its brilliant. Risky and bat**** crazy...but brilliant.

Yet, it would make most of our chances meaningless in the end. I know what impact they have during the course of the game, but he literally said that the end would be directly affected by everything we did and show the impact on every individual. As it stands, there's neither a direct effect, nor an impact. It's really just three sacrifices with different colors and a completely unnecessary because absolutely unsuitable sequence of the Normandy, with magical teleports in the end, even when you lost your companions and saw them dead. Either Bioware is fooling us or they've completely lost it. At any rate, this is far from brilliant, because mistery and immersion are one thing but giant plotholes and an insultingly weird/bad written ending are another. And no matter what value the endings have, the space magic devaluates them. That's why Bioware can't leave them as is without risking a good bunch of their fans and loyal customers to leave them forever.

[FlyinElk212]

I wouldn't look too closely into the textures. I see them as reuses of older textures simply to speed up the creation process. They only had 2 years to pump this thing out, after all.

[NotCras]

Broham wrote...

Tailen wrote...

Pelleran wrote...

variobunz wrote...

That's true. BW wanted to create memorable ending that sticks with you.
But the problem is it's not memorable because it's amazing. It's controversy.

True. This is what made me believe in that they have an ace up their sleeves. I just don't get to wrap my head around the fact that Bioware might actually want to be remembered for controversy.

I think it's amazing and controversial.  Why can't it be both?

My opinion is that the ending as it stands now could not have had the desired impact if it was handled any differently.  I have felt very strongly that their intentions were to find a way to make us feel exactly the struggle that Shepard would be feeling.  To face down indoctrination, to make the choice like it was our own, to see that choice play out and actually feel the weight of your decision.

It sounds good on paper -- in fact, it sounds an awful lot like the "signifigance of player choice" mantra we always hear from BioWare with their games -- but has it ever really had this kind of impact?  Has it ever really made you feel?

That being my opinion, I was delighted to bump in to this little tidbit from Casey Hudson:

We end up exploring some spaces that maybe have never been done before. Because interactive storytelling is still kind of new, there are neat things to try. One of the things we’re trying in Mass Effect 3 is the idea that we can let you feel something that is part of that character’s experience versus strictly getting you to react to things that you see and experience. We’re trying to tell a little bit of the story Shepard would feel and seeing if the player feels that as well. You saw that on the Earth mission, and you see it throughout the game. It’s insight into how Shepard feels. I think that’s going to be one of the things people remember.

That came from here: http://www.gameinfor...PostPageIndex=2 

Now, I mentioned above "the ending as it stands now".  He mentions in the quote that there are "neat things to try" because "interactive storytelling is still kind of new".  I really think a big part of that is having the ability to break the mold, and leave a cliffhanger (my word of choice here -- others clearly say "unsatisfying and riddled with plot holes") for a brief period.  Long enough, say, to get crazy amounts of attention and unite their raging fanbase against them.  Bold move.

And then -- via a free DLC, or time-locked content, or a 20 minute cinematic, or whatever means they've had planned all along -- give us the answer we're all waiting for with bated breath.

I love the indoctrination theory.  I fully support it, and it leaves me satisfied with the state of the ending for my Shepard's story.  I would be fine without any further explanation, or even any real confirmation.

However, I think what looks crazy to everyone now is going to end up setting a major precedent in storytelling.  I think they're breaking the mold, and I wouldn't be surprised in the least to have the rest of the ending opened up to us shortly.

TL;DR -- Without the turn that it took and the lack of traditional closure, it never could have had this impact.  It never would have made us feel.

Well sai!

With all the "theories" and "revelations" these last 1-2 days; this is exactly my thoughts. Bioware planned this.

The loopholes and randomness of the ending.
The small hints at the end.
The nagging feeling something isn't quite as it seems throughout the game.
That "seemingly in poor taste" message about continuing Shepard's legend in future DLC at the end...

I think Bioware is knowingly setting a new precedence and making gaming history here

Bioware is not stupid enough to do an ending like this, as I said before MY SPIDEY SENSES ARE TINGLING.  What better way to make a twist than by doing it this way? You forget, that its their universe as much as it is ours, and they would want to make the perfect ending for it as much as we do. Bioware is definitely trying to make gaming history here.

[Blackmercy2]

Dont forget though that the child shepard sees in Citadel as the Catalyst , we ve seen him back in Earth....Now how is that possible if we say that is the Catalyst ...Unless since Shepard is hallucinating and his mind gives to the Catalyst the boy figure as a proof that he's feeling guilty for not saving him back in the beggining ...or is it something else ?

[Noob451]

byne wrote...

Could someone either PM me the images of Shepard looking all huskified in the Control and Synthesis endings or just post them again?

Was gonna add them to the main post, but I lost them.

heres a link to the control one

http://i44.tinypic.com/2zgdjq1.png 

[anlk92]

Icinix wrote...

Casey Hudson from Tailens post...

"Mass Effect 3 is the idea that we can let you feel something that is part of that character’s experience "

Mission Accomplished.

In a sense - that feeling of hopelessness - that feeling of no control...not being able to ask questions (the developers have abandoned the forums and twitter is cryptic at best and really only "glad you enjoyed it!" promo). Ultimately that feeling that what we did means nothing. Just like Shep would be feeling.

Every emotion we have as players right now - is the same emotions that Shep would be going through during this indoctrination process.

Quite frankly if this is what he meant, and I really believe it is, its brilliant. Risky and bat**** crazy...but brilliant.

Exactly. If I was in Bioware's place, even if I haven't planned for this, I would go with this theory. I mean right now they basically have two options: to be the guys who couldn't come up with an ending that wouldn't ruin the entire series in the eyes of the fans or to be the crazy geniuses who came up with this.

[leapingmonkeys]

One problem with the ID theory - both your choices indicate that it started early in the game.  Problem is, when Shepard goes to retrieve the final Prothean artifact to complete the Crucible, there is a VI there.  When Kai shows up, the VI announces "Indoctrinated agent detected" and shuts down.  If Shepard was ID'd early in the game, why didn't the VI detect it?

No, sadly, the explanation is much simplier.  Someone at BW/EA decided that they wanted the game to end on a dark note because it appealed to some morbid sense of drama (instead of realizing that this was a game meant to be enjoyed by the players who were playing the game so that they could be heros, save the day and ride off into the sunset with their LI).

To that end, they pre-conceived the ending they wanted, ignored everything else that lead to it, ignored how the ending didn't fit because they had already decided what ending they wanted, and there you are.  In fact, the whole idea that "past actions would impact the course of ME3" was abstracted down into a mostly invisible number (effective military strength).  The number had no visible impact on the game play or choices that Shepard could make.  Its sole role was to act as a fickle finger of fate to indicate what the final cut-scene would be when you arrived at the one and only ending.

[Icinix]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

Just making sure.

And those still going on about the 4chan/GameFAQ "insights", all have stated that the issue with the ending is the leak, and that they purposely changed/half-***ed the ending due to the leaks.

So...why are the endings the same in all of the scripts as the endings we get in the game?  Read people. 

The ending choices may be real - but may have other options beside them.

Their presentation and execution may vary massively - also the script was not complete.

What if the entire last act was not in their....OR...*puts on extra large tin foil hat on top of already large tin foil hat* They leaked the leak deliberately to add validity to the endings we got? In fact - even the early demo mistake "Cerberus is indoctrinated, they're capable of anything."....there is a lot of fishyness going on here...

[Noob451]

leapingmonkeys wrote...

One problem with the ID theory - both your choices indicate that it started early in the game.  Problem is, when Shepard goes to retrieve the final Prothean artifact to complete the Crucible, there is a VI there.  When Kai shows up, the VI announces "Indoctrinated agent detected" and shuts down.  If Shepard was ID'd early in the game, why didn't the VI detect it?

No, sadly, the explanation is much simplier.  Someone at BW/EA decided that they wanted the game to end on a dark note because it appealed to some morbid sense of drama (instead of realizing that this was a game meant to be enjoyed by the players who were playing the game so that they could be heros, save the day and ride off into the sunset with their LI).

To that end, they pre-conceived the ending they wanted, ignored everything else that lead to it, ignored how the ending didn't fit because they had already decided what ending they wanted, and there you are.  In fact, the whole idea that "past actions would impact the course of ME3" was abstracted down into a mostly invisible number (effective military strength).  The number had no visible impact on the game play or choices that Shepard could make.  Its sole role was to act as a fickle finger of fate to indicate what the final cut-scene would be when you arrived at the one and only ending.

maybe because shep isn't indoctrinated yet, he's just fighting it. after earth he only saw the boy while he was sleeping, and at the end if he is unconscious, it could make sense, if he isn't alert how would he fight the indoctrination?

[Icinix]

JulienJaden wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Casey Hudson from Tailens post...

"Mass Effect 3 is the idea that we can let you feel something that is part of that character’s experience "

Mission Accomplished.

In a sense - that feeling of hopelessness - that feeling of no control...not being able to ask questions (the developers have abandoned the forums and twitter is cryptic at best and really only "glad you enjoyed it!" promo). Ultimately that feeling that what we did means nothing. Just like Shep would be feeling.

Every emotion we have as players right now - is the same emotions that Shep would be going through during this indoctrination process.

Quite frankly if this is what he meant, and I really believe it is, its brilliant. Risky and bat**** crazy...but brilliant.

Yet, it would make most of our chances meaningless in the end. I know what impact they have during the course of the game, but he literally said that the end would be directly affected by everything we did and show the impact on every individual. As it stands, there's neither a direct effect, nor an impact. It's really just three sacrifices with different colors and a completely unnecessary because absolutely unsuitable sequence of the Normandy, with magical teleports in the end, even when you lost your companions and saw them dead. Either Bioware is fooling us or they've completely lost it. At any rate, this is far from brilliant, because mistery and immersion are one thing but giant plotholes and an insultingly weird/bad written ending are another. And no matter what value the endings have, the space magic devaluates them. That's why Bioware can't leave them as is without risking a good bunch of their fans and loyal customers to leave them forever.

Oh not saying they're going to leave them as is, but if we all knew real endings were coming, would we feel and react the way we had?

Not a chance.

[Syphirr]

http://www.oxm.co.uk...before-release/

Modifié par Syphirr, 14 mars 2012 - 02:59 .

[HairyMadDog1010]

leapingmonkeys wrote...

One problem with the ID theory - both your choices indicate that it started early in the game.  Problem is, when Shepard goes to retrieve the final Prothean artifact to complete the Crucible, there is a VI there.  When Kai shows up, the VI announces "Indoctrinated agent detected" and shuts down.  If Shepard was ID'd early in the game, why didn't the VI detect it?

No, sadly, the explanation is much simplier.  Someone at BW/EA decided that they wanted the game to end on a dark note because it appealed to some morbid sense of drama (instead of realizing that this was a game meant to be enjoyed by the players who were playing the game so that they could be heros, save the day and ride off into the sunset with their LI).

To that end, they pre-conceived the ending they wanted, ignored everything else that lead to it, ignored how the ending didn't fit because they had already decided what ending they wanted, and there you are.  In fact, the whole idea that "past actions would impact the course of ME3" was abstracted down into a mostly invisible number (effective military strength).  The number had no visible impact on the game play or choices that Shepard could make.  Its sole role was to act as a fickle finger of fate to indicate what the final cut-scene would be when you arrived at the one and only ending.

As Vigil stated, the protheans could only sense high levals of indoctrination.