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[azarhal]

Monochrome Wench wrote...

The Sanctuary mission states that Adrenaline can be used as a catalyst in indoctrination. Shepard is running down the hill dodging harbys red beam of death attempting to reach the conduit. Shepard gets knocked out cold by the red beam of death. Shepards body is full of adrenaline leaving them in a very very suseptable state for indoctrination. Harbinger being only a few hundreds metres away attempts to fully indoctrinate Shepard. Success or failure is your, the players, choice. You just don't know it.

You know, I feel like the Sanctuary was a Reaper's idea to perfect their indoctrination of strong willed individuals. Once that project found a satisfactory solution, the Reaper purged the place. It's not that much different than how they used the Collectors...

[redBadger14]

killnoob wrote...

Noob451 wrote...

killnoob wrote...

byne wrote...

killnoob wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

I already said it and I'll say it again, if the indoctrination theory is NOT what BioWare had in mind, they managed to miss the most awesome explanation.

Naw,

the indoctrination theory make almost as little sense as the endings we have.

No theory will work unless the Cataylst is gone.

Coincidentally, according to the indoctrination theory, the catalyst kid is all just in your head, so he never actually existed.

And why would the kid be in here?

If Shepards indoctrinated, it means the reapers put him there.

And why would the kid give Shepard the option to destroy reapers if the reapers put him there?

I don't wanna be mean, but can you srsly connect the dots on your own please?

because it's an ATTEMPT at indoctrination, that part about destroying the reapers is SHEPARD FIGHTING IT  the other options are put there to guide him away.... control.. the illusive man wanted this guess what?  he was indoctrinated! 

and synthesis, is eerily close to what Saren proposed, guess what?  Indoctrinated!     and something is said along the lines of "Synthesis will cause all organics to ASCEND to the last stage of evolution"    what does harbinger say in ME2 about the colonists?  oh right... "prepare the humans for ascension"

Right.

Think about this.

How will Shepard know what options there are if not for the space kid?

And if the space kid is reapers attempt at indoctrination, why does he tell him about the destroy option?

I'll say it again, the space kid is used because he is an important figure to Shepard. The kid throughout the game evoked strong emotions from Shepard in his dreams, thus Harbinger using the space kid is a way to try and levy Shepard to the Control and Synthesis endings.

And again, the kid telling Shepard about the Destroy option is to make it all seem genuine. Another thing to note is that he mentions Destroy first, but then goes on to say "but there are other solutions" and explain the Control and Synthesis choices in detail, to make Shepard think about them and forget about the Destroy option.

[Sheparded]

The VI became the image of the kid because it wanted to make Shepard feel comfortable when talking to it.

[byne]

killnoob wrote...

And how would Shepard know what options he's got, if the space kid is Shepards Mind?


Has he been inside the crucible before?

You're assuming that those options are the options that actually exist on the Crucible. If its all a hallucination, then we still dont even know what the Crucible even does, since it doesnt connect with the Citadel until after the point at which people are saying the hallucination starts.

[Rinji the Bearded]

We know the child is lying if Shepard lives through the destroy ending.

[killnoob]

Fledgey wrote...

Also, why would, on the Control and Synthesis endings, Shepard's eyes become indoctrinated just like Illusive Man's and Sarens?

In case if you've missed the ending, Joker's eye are also glowing like the illusive man in the synthesis ending.

Just because you've got that eye dont mean your indoctrinated.

It means you're part synthetics.

[Sheparded]

killnoob wrote...

Fledgey wrote...

Also, why would, on the Control and Synthesis endings, Shepard's eyes become indoctrinated just like Illusive Man's and Sarens?

In case if you've missed the ending, Joker's eye are also glowing like the illusive man in the synthesis ending.

Just because you've got that eye dont mean your indoctrinated.

It means you're part synthetics.

I thought that eye type was reaper tech

[Noob451]

BigBubbaBacon wrote...

Can anyone who reads Game Informer confirm or deny this quote? If so it sort of points towards the idea of indoctrinating the player, doesn't it? Sorry of this has already been brought up.


http://www.gamefaqs....2225565?page=11

"Here's a Casey Hudson quote from January (game informer interview) that actually fits pretty well with the indoctrination theory... A few of us argue that a "breaking the 4th wall" type of intention is at work here, and that the ending sequence is actually a kind of indoctrination of THE PLAYER (not just Shepard) into believing that synergy (an idea we hated when Saren presented it) and control (an idea we hated when TIM presented it) are actually a good idea all of a sudden...

"We end up exploring some spaces that maybe have never been done before. Because interactive storytelling is still kind of new, there are neat things to try. One of the things we’re trying in Mass Effect 3 is the idea that we can let you feel something that is part of that character’s experience versus strictly getting you to react to things that you see and experience. We’re trying to tell a little bit of the story Shepard would feel and seeing if the player feels that as well. You saw that on the Earth mission, and you see it throughout the game. It’s insight into how Shepard feels. I think that’s going to be one of the things people remember."[/i] "

not sure, but i did see this:

We've seen plenty of plot-heavy video game trilogies, but never has a franchise tied together so many complex and variable stories across three games, weaving a web of player choices that pulls you ever tighter to the narrative and your effects on its conclusion. As I talk to Casey Hudson about this impending finale, I can't help but notice how tired he looks. His voice is hoarse, and he's clearly been spending many late nights with the rest of his team finishing the game. It's been a long, dramatic eight-year journey for Commander Shepard, the developers at BioWare, and Mass Effect fans, but the conclusion it has all been building to is finally almost here. "I think it will all be worth it in the end," Hudson reassures me with a knowing smile. 

[redBadger14]

killnoob wrote...

Syphirr wrote...



As so many of us have already asserted, Shepard is shown waking up amongst the rubble in London, on Earth. unless we bring more space magic into this, the 3 choices cannot physically have been real. You're either trolling, or just aren't taking the time to listen to what the comunity has pretty much reached consensus on. regardless, you're entitled to your opinion, there's just no need to act so aggressively with it. Just my opinion.

Exactly.

Those three choice are messed up.

So is the indoctrination theory.

The endings suck and no matter how hard you explain them they just dont make sense.

As for Shepard waking up in London, how do you get that idea?

All we saw was him waking up from a pile of rubble.

So, if he didn't wake up in London, I guess he just woke up in a pile of rubble being held down in space, in which no gravity exists. 

You're going to have to do better than that.

[Fledgey]

Sheparded wrote...

killnoob wrote...

Fledgey wrote...

Also, why would, on the Control and Synthesis endings, Shepard's eyes become indoctrinated just like Illusive Man's and Sarens?

In case if you've missed the ending, Joker's eye are also glowing like the illusive man in the synthesis ending.

Just because you've got that eye dont mean your indoctrinated.

It means you're part synthetics.

I thought that eye type was reaper tech

It is. He also misquoted me. That's not what I said.

[Noob451]

killnoob wrote...

Fledgey wrote...

Also, why would, on the Control and Synthesis endings, Shepard's eyes become indoctrinated just like Illusive Man's and Sarens?

In case if you've missed the ending, Joker's eye are also glowing like the illusive man in the synthesis ending.

Just because you've got that eye dont mean your indoctrinated.

It means you're part synthetics.

I think he means the Blue eyes.....

[killnoob]

byne wrote...

killnoob wrote...

And how would Shepard know what options he's got, if the space kid is Shepards Mind?


Has he been inside the crucible before?

You're assuming that those options are the options that actually exist on the Crucible. If its all a hallucination, then we still dont even know what the Crucible even does, since it doesnt connect with the Citadel until after the point at which people are saying the hallucination starts.

I'm going out on a limb to say that by using the word "hallucination"

You actually are not talking about "indoctrination".

If that's the case, then every single fiction out there with open ending you can explain them with "its all a hallucination! Up to a certain point when the main character is injured, he starts hallucinating!'

[redBadger14]

killnoob wrote...

Fledgey wrote...

Also, why would, on the Control and Synthesis endings, Shepard's eyes become indoctrinated just like Illusive Man's and Sarens?

In case if you've missed the ending, Joker's eye are also glowing like the illusive man in the synthesis ending.

Just because you've got that eye dont mean your indoctrinated.

It means you're part synthetics.

And the Reapers are synthetic. Synthesis ending unites Synthetic and Organic life, hence it makes sense why Joker's eyes would look like that. Part Reaper tech there.

Edit: I should reiterate that Joker's eyes do not glow like TIM or Saren; Joker's eyes are green and not blue. So Joker himself likely is not indoctrinated, but rather the synthesis with his organics (synthetic life includes the Reapers) causes organics to have some amount of Reaper tech in them. Just a thought.

Modifié par redBadger14, 14 mars 2012 - 04:03 .

[Little Lummo]

Sheparded wrote...

But what if the Godchild is actually Shepard kid which he had with Ashley.....DUN DUN DUN

Dont know about that, but I wouldnt let my mShep and Kaidan adopt a devil child like that. Reminds me of the movie Orphan...

[NICKjnp]

How about we follow the color scheme. Blue (synthesis) is paragon and everyone gets along. Red (renegade) is organics wiping out synthetics. Neutral (white) is Reapers reprogrammed to not destroy but being brainwashed themselves. The endings make sense but how they are reached does not.
And what is the point of any of the cutscenes afterwards? If Shepard gives in then why continue to show events afterwards? Sorry...everyone seems to be reading too much into the ending. Just accept that it was an ending that you didn't like.
This idea reminds me of the "Shepard is a geth" that was floating around when they released the ME2 teaser with Legion in it.

Modifié par NICKjnp, 14 mars 2012 - 04:01 .

[Fledgey]

killnoob wrote...

byne wrote...

killnoob wrote...

And how would Shepard know what options he's got, if the space kid is Shepards Mind?


Has he been inside the crucible before?

You're assuming that those options are the options that actually exist on the Crucible. If its all a hallucination, then we still dont even know what the Crucible even does, since it doesnt connect with the Citadel until after the point at which people are saying the hallucination starts.

I'm going out on a limb to say that by using the word "hallucination"

You actually are not talking about "indoctrination".

If that's the case, then every single fiction out there with open ending you can explain them with "its all a hallucination! Up to a certain point when the main character is injured, he starts hallucinating!'

Oh my god it's like you're not even listening. Please read the thread from the first page and read to about page 100 and then come back and tell us how you feel. As of right now you're just being ignorant.

[Earthborn_Shepard]

Just noticed how BioWare has an obsession with the letter C. Conduit, Citadel, Crucible, Catalyst...

[njfluffy19]

killnoob wrote...

Fledgey wrote...

Also, why would, on the Control and Synthesis endings, Shepard's eyes become indoctrinated just like Illusive Man's and Sarens?

In case if you've missed the ending, Joker's eye are also glowing like the illusive man in the synthesis ending.

Just because you've got that eye dont mean your indoctrinated.

It means you're part synthetics.

No, they are green. Your eyes turn BLUE like Saren's and TIM's.

Modifié par njfluffy19, 14 mars 2012 - 04:00 .

[prag16]

killnoob wrote...

Noob451 wrote...

killnoob wrote...

byne wrote...

killnoob wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

I already said it and I'll say it again, if the indoctrination theory is NOT what BioWare had in mind, they managed to miss the most awesome explanation.

Naw,

the indoctrination theory make almost as little sense as the endings we have.

No theory will work unless the Cataylst is gone.

Coincidentally, according to the indoctrination theory, the catalyst kid is all just in your head, so he never actually existed.

And why would the kid be in here?

If Shepards indoctrinated, it means the reapers put him there.

And why would the kid give Shepard the option to destroy reapers if the reapers put him there?

I don't wanna be mean, but can you srsly connect the dots on your own please?

because it's an ATTEMPT at indoctrination, that part about destroying the reapers is SHEPARD FIGHTING IT  the other options are put there to guide him away.... control.. the illusive man wanted this guess what?  he was indoctrinated! 

and synthesis, is eerily close to what Saren proposed, guess what?  Indoctrinated!     and something is said along the lines of "Synthesis will cause all organics to ASCEND to the last stage of evolution"    what does harbinger say in ME2 about the colonists?  oh right... "prepare the humans for ascension"

Right.

Think about this.

How will Shepard know what options there are if not for the space kid?

And if the space kid is reapers attempt at indoctrination, why does he tell him about the destroy option?

You clearly STILL haven't read the OP.  Every last thing your'e complaining about has been accounted for (if not in the OP, then in subsequent discussion... but the vast vast majority is in the OP).

[ArkkAngel007]

byne wrote...

killnoob wrote...

And how would Shepard know what options he's got, if the space kid is Shepards Mind?


Has he been inside the crucible before?

You're assuming that those options are the options that actually exist on the Crucible. If its all a hallucination, then we still dont even know what the Crucible even does, since it doesnt connect with the Citadel until after the point at which people are saying the hallucination starts.

You're forgetting that at this point, the Reapers are providing these choices.  This is both Shepard's mind and the Reapers indoctrination.  The Reaper's provide the suggestions and take actions, and Shepard's mind provides the imagery (TIM "controlling" Shepard was the Reaper's attempting forceful indoctrination).

[Syphirr]

Fledgey wrote...

killnoob wrote...

byne wrote...

killnoob wrote...

And how would Shepard know what options he's got, if the space kid is Shepards Mind?


Has he been inside the crucible before?

You're assuming that those options are the options that actually exist on the Crucible. If its all a hallucination, then we still dont even know what the Crucible even does, since it doesnt connect with the Citadel until after the point at which people are saying the hallucination starts.

I'm going out on a limb to say that by using the word "hallucination"

You actually are not talking about "indoctrination".

If that's the case, then every single fiction out there with open ending you can explain them with "its all a hallucination! Up to a certain point when the main character is injured, he starts hallucinating!'

Oh my god it's like you're not even listening. Please read the thread from the first page and read to about page 100 and then come back and tell us how you feel. As of right now you're just being ignorant.

THIS

[byne]

killnoob wrote...

byne wrote...

killnoob wrote...

And how would Shepard know what options he's got, if the space kid is Shepards Mind?


Has he been inside the crucible before?

You're assuming that those options are the options that actually exist on the Crucible. If its all a hallucination, then we still dont even know what the Crucible even does, since it doesnt connect with the Citadel until after the point at which people are saying the hallucination starts.

I'm going out on a limb to say that by using the word "hallucination"

You actually are not talking about "indoctrination".

If that's the case, then every single fiction out there with open ending you can explain them with "its all a hallucination! Up to a certain point when the main character is injured, he starts hallucinating!'

Well, I'm actually saying the hallucination itself is a side effect of the indoctrination, as in a lot of places in the games, including the facility in Arrival, you can hear audio logs of people who are being indoctrinated talking about having weird dreams.

[JulienJaden]

With regards to the 'survival' ending: We all know it, but still, it's absolutely impossible for Shepard to be on the Citadel. He can absolutely not survive re-entering Earth's atmosphere or the following crash (if actually enough of him was in any state fit for crashing after the trip through the atmosphere, cause most certainly, Shepard would end up as a veil of dust). Hell, Shepard can't even survive the explosion of the Citadel or the Citadel shutting down because without the shields, there's no atmosphere left to breath or have survivable temperature. And there's no saferoom in sight that was built just so that whoever activates this feature of the Citadel (It's gonna be a standard feature of Windows 20!) can survive the ensuing self-destruction. So, even if that N7-sequence was taking place someplace else than Earth's surface, there is absolutely NO WAY that Shepard could have survived that. And instant teleportation is not an option unless the USS Enterprise has joined the fleet on short notice.

[kent80082006]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

kent80082006 wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

Shepard being the Catalyst would definately make a hundred percent more sense than that little brat. It would fit the actual meaning of the word, meaning Shep's ability to inspire and encourage people. All other civilisations just didn't have some kind of leader like that, so they perished.

The catalyst cannot be shepherd, the use of the catalyst was implemented
a few cycles ago and it has always been the citadel according to the
Prothean VI, just maybe without the god child in it

But apparently the Crucible has never been used before because the other cycles didn't finish it. So how would they know what the Catalyst actually is?

Because the blueprints were there all along! They never finished building it doesn't mean they never finished designing it.

The crucible was originally designed without the catalyst, the use of the citadel was implemented by a civilization of a cycle before the Protheans as stated by the Prothean VI, why would they add it to the blueprints if they don't know what it is? If they don't have any sort of magic crystal ball then there's no way they know about Shpeherd and naturally he can't be the catalyst. 

So if you'll agree with me on that I'd like to state a new perspective to view the ID theory.

It's safe to presume that the use of catalyst alters the crucible's function to some extent, if the previous civilizations don't know about the god child, then the crucible is definitely not doing what it's supposed to do, that is, the function intended by original designers or by those who implemented the use of citadel.

This somehow proofs that the current three choices are not the intended function of the crucible but proposal of the god child as an indoctrination attempt.