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Was the ending a hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory


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#11151
Candidate 88766

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Noob451 wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Monochrome Wench wrote...

The Sanctuary mission states that Adrenaline can be used as a catalyst in indoctrination. Shepard is running down the hill dodging harbys red beam of death attempting to reach the conduit. Shepard gets knocked out cold by the red beam of death. Shepards body is full of adrenaline leaving them in a very very suseptable state for indoctrination. Harbinger being only a few hundreds metres away attempts to fully indoctrinate Shepard. Success or failure is your, the players, choice. You just don't know it.

Two things.

Firstly, if a person running high with adrenaline can indoctrinated within minutes just by being close to the Reapers, then virtually every single human would have been indoctrinated on day one of the invasion. Giant machines from space have just landed on your planet and are obliterating your cities - to a normal person, that is going to generate a serious amount of adrenaline. Given that there are multiple Reapers in each city, the vast majority of the population would be indoctrinated in no time at all. This is not the case - the people brought to the prison areas set up by the Reapers are described as still having free will in most cases as they commit acts of kindness to each other.

Secondly, indoctrination is not something you can simply overcome. The ME3 codex states that it is achieved through 'electromagnetic fields, infrasonic and ultrasonic noise, and other subliminal method'. You cannot overcome these forces with willpower. You can't simply choose to stop the signals entering your mind.  


and if you read the novels, you will see that it can be resisted, hell grayson resisted for a very long time.

ME1 shows you can resist it - both Benezia and Saren resist it. My point is that you cannot overcome it as this theory states - you can only delay it, and even then only by staying away from Reaper technology.

The theory relies on Shepard going from a point of being very indoctrinated to a point of being virtually free of it, which is impossible. The level of indoctrination cannot decreas - as the codex says, the changes to the mind caused by these signals are permanent.

#11152
killnoob

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njfluffy19 wrote...

Capeo wrote...

cobnut wrote...

Killnoob, I think you are trolling us. Nobody could possibly be so ignorant and beside the point you pretend to be. You just didn't understand any of the arguments given to you and still blame the theory stupid. =.=


That's because the theory is stupid.  The game friggin' tells you outright you defeated the Reapers.  And people are so deluded that they think there is something more to it because they simply can't accept that ME just has subpar writers.


Posted Image


Posted Image
[img]http://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://images.sodahead.com/profiles/0/0/2/6/7/3/2/1/1/HAHAHA-NO-62731470317.jpeg&imgrefurl=https://www.sodahead.com/living/tattoo-or-breakup-would-you-tat-for-a-bfgf/question-2314011/comment-72703273/&h=437&w=562&sz=39&tbnid=Ep_f_adWhg_tOM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=116&prev=/search%3Fq%3DHahaha%2Bno%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=Hahaha+no&docid=4d-d1HGOrMWgQM&sa=X&ei=yMNgT_GwCeGWiQf5n-DeBw&ved=0CGQQ9QEwCg&dur=283[/img]

Modifié par killnoob, 14 mars 2012 - 04:16 .


#11153
IronSabbath88

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Why would BioWare not make you think this is final? If they DO have something coming, they wouldn't want to make it obvious... and they didn't. The only way you have any kind of hint is if you have enough war assets and make the right choice.

Of course they're going to say the game is over.

#11154
Candidate 88766

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While there is some stuff that kind of supports it, there is plenty of evidence that the theory is wrong.

-The game directly tells you that Shepard has just ended the Reaper threat, despite the endings of the theory either being Shepard failing (in which case the Crucible won't activate) or Shepard not ending the Reaper threat by the end of the game. It doesn't say that Shepard will go on to end the Reaper threat, but that in what you just played Shepard ended the Reaper threat, which simply isn't true in the indoctrination ending.

-You do not simply break free of indoctrination. You can't choose to stop listening to "electromagnetic fields, infrasonic and ultrasonic noise, and other subliminal methods" (which is how the ME3 codex describes indoctrinations functionality). Take Saren for example - he was both a very strong willed individual and one Sovereign was activeley trying not to indoctrinate too much so that he'd still be useful. The only way he broke free was suicide. The same goes for TIM, although I imagine he was more under their influence than Saren was.

-People point to the codex as evidence, despite the codex contradicting the theory. "Organics undergoing indoctrination may complain of headaches and buzzing or ringing in their ears. As time passes, they have feelings of "being watched" and hallucinations of "ghostly" presences. Ultimately, the Reaper gains the ability to use the victim's body to amplify its signals, manifesting as "alien" voices in the mind." Shepard never once complains of headaches, or buzzing in his ears, or feelings of being watched. We never see hallucinations in the game. We never hear the Reapers' voices in Shepard's mind. Some people point to the dream sequences, but they're just that - dreams. The whispers are from the charcaters you've met, and the people-shaped wisps of smoke simply represent the dead. The dreams are representative - they show that even with more and more people dying around him, this one child's death is what is haunting Shepard.

-People say that the sequence of Shepard waking up in London must be a sign that he was lying there all along, but look at the scenery. When running for the Conduit, you are running across open ground. In the ending scene. Shepard is lying on layers of ruined building - you can see pipes and bits of wall, which simply weren't present beforehand. People point to the trees that weren't there before just before the Conduit as a sign of the ending being an illusion - surely this total change of scenery would imply the same thing? Shepard is not lying in the same place he was - nowehere near - and yet this is conveniently ignored despite scenery changes being a main point of the theory's evidence.

-Why would Bioware, a company built on making story-based games, end ME3 - the conclusion to one of their most successful and popular stories ever - on a cliffhanger simply so they could end it later with DLC?

-Why market everything about this game as being around the concept of taking Earth back if you don't actually get to do that? If this theory is correct, the game ends before you get the chance to 'take Earth back'.

-Why implement GaW at all if it makes no difference? In this theory, destroy is the only option allowing Shepard to break free, and it is available with the lowest GaW scores. There is no reason for it to exist in this theory - it doesn't affect Earth's fate, as you haven't saved Earth yet. It doesn't affect your choices - the only successful choice is available regardless. It doesn't affect the fate of your squadmates - their dead bodies are part of the illusion. There is no reason for it to exist in this theory despite it being the major focus of the game.

-Why give Shepard only one option if GaW is low? No matter what, Shepard is within a few metres of reaching the Conduit. The Reapers know that they have built the Crucible, and that Shepard was within seconds of reaching the Catalyst. So why then provide Shepard with only one choice that means he breaks free of indoctraintion? If he's made it this far, regardless of how strong the fleet is, he's proven himself to be incredible dangerous to the Reapers. Why go to all the trouble of fabricating this entire sequence if its only purpose is to ensure Shepard breaks free?

-Why does Bioware show the player the Reapers being destroyed/leaving, the Relays being destroyed and the Normandy crashing in every ending? This isn't stuff Shepard can see, its stuff being shown to the player. If Shepard breaks free, why show the Reapers being destroyed if they haven't actually been destroyed? And if he chooses wrong and falls under the Reapers' influence, why keep the illusions going? He is under their control - they don't need to show an illusion of the Reapers leaving Earth.

-Why, in any of the theory's endings, would the Reapers make Shepard imagine the Normandy crashing ona a random planet?

-Why does the Prothean VI detect no indoctrination on Shepard and yet mere hours later Shepard has become so indoctrinated that he is imagining entire sequences? Indoctrination is not rapid - the fastest indoctrination ruins the subject's mind, yet Shepard is still in control of his mind to come extent. This implies slow indoctrination, which raises two questions. Firstly, how did Shepard get so indoctrinated in such a short space of time if right before the battle the game tells you that you're not indoctrinated? Secondly, if the Reapers are capable of indoctrinating him in this timeframe, then why not go all out and reduce him to a vegetable?

And while these points alone aren't enough to 100% disprove the theory for some people, they are surely enough to call it into serious doubt at least.

Modifié par Candidate 88766, 14 mars 2012 - 04:18 .


#11155
Hurricane Brad

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killnoob wrote...

Hurricane Brad wrote...

killnoob wrote...

Right.

Think about this.

How will Shepard know what options there are if not for the space kid?

And if the space kid is reapers attempt at indoctrination, why does he tell him about the destroy option?


Shepard and the Alliance are confident that the Crucible is a weapon to destroy the reapers.  If space kid tells him that it can't, he will be more suspicious and less inclined to believe it.  With the expected option available, Shepard is more likely to believe the space kid and is thus more inclined to choose the other options that space kid favours.   


I'm not saying the Space kid should tell him he "Cant" destroy the reapers.

I'm saying why is the space kid telling him anything at all?

Think about it. If he doesnt' say a word, Shepard won't have a frigging clue what to do.


Assuming Shepard is in fact unconscious, I think that Harbinger wants to indoctrinate him while he's vulnerable.  If Shepard is just left alone, perhaps he will wake up of his own accord or find something else that causes him to wake.  I dunno, just speculation really.

#11156
Fledgey

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MatthewGold wrote...

michael donahoe ‏ @CooTweetBro
I'm really pissed off people have spoiled that @masseffect 3 has an ending. OMG! IT ENDS? SPOILARZ!

Mass Effect ‏ @masseffect
@cootweetbro We've never said so~

Hahaha holy ****, what? What else could this mean. I seriously can't skew this one any other way.

#11157
JulienJaden

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kent80082006 wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

kent80082006 wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

Shepard being the Catalyst would definately make a hundred percent more sense than that little brat. It would fit the actual meaning of the word, meaning Shep's ability to inspire and encourage people. All other civilisations just didn't have some kind of leader like that, so they perished.


The catalyst cannot be shepherd, the use of the catalyst was implemented
a few cycles ago and it has always been the citadel according to the
Prothean VI, just maybe without the god child in it


But apparently the Crucible has never been used before because the other cycles didn't finish it. So how would they know what the Catalyst actually is?


Because the blueprints were there all along! They never finished building it doesn't mean they never finished designing it.

The crucible was originally designed without the catalyst, the use of the citadel was implemented by a civilization of a cycle before the Protheans as stated by the Prothean VI, why would they add it to the blueprints if they don't know what it is? If they don't have any sort of magic crystal ball then there's no way they know about Shpeherd and naturally he can't be the catalyst. 

So if you'll agree with me on that I'd like to state a new perspective to view the ID theory.

It's safe to presume that the use of catalyst alters the crucible's function to some extent, if the previous civilizations don't know about the god child, then the crucible is definitely not doing what it's supposed to do, that is, the function intended by original designers or by those who implemented the use of citadel.

This somehow proofs that the current three choices are not the intended function of the crucible but proposal of the god child as an indoctrination attempt.



Actually, hold the freaking phone!
Let me reiterate: The crucible is a design that has changed in the course of the cycle. It was, eventually, changed to incorporate the Citadel.
Well, what happened before? Was it just too short-ranged? Granted, in ME3, it can't fire without the Citadel, but that could be because of the changes to the design. We don't know what options the original design would have offered and if it just wouldn't have worked on a galactic scale. My point is: The race that came up with the idea had no idea or intention of involving the Citadel in the plan, but they still thought that it would be their salvation, or that of the next cycle. And up until the ME3 cycle, it was never used because they were either betrayed or started building it when it was already too late.

Fact is, the Prothean VI said it was eventually changed to involve the Citadel, and that means that, at some point, the original design was meant to work without it, because the original inventors must have had an idea and discovered something that would save them all, without the Citadel.

#11158
njfluffy19

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Fledgey wrote...

MatthewGold wrote...

michael donahoe ‏ @CooTweetBro
I'm really pissed off people have spoiled that @masseffect 3 has an ending. OMG! IT ENDS? SPOILARZ!

Mass Effect ‏ @masseffect
@cootweetbro We've never said so~

Hahaha holy ****, what? What else could this mean. I seriously can't skew this one any other way.


It could just mean they didn't spoil the ending.

#11159
Sheparded

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njfluffy19 wrote...

mr.surv wrote...

Ok another idea.

Why Anderson didn't open the arms of the citadel? He was at the console before Shep gets into the room.
!:bandit:


He is computer illiterate. Old people often are.


I think anderson was indoctrinated

#11160
killnoob

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Candidate 88766 wrote...

Noob451 wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Monochrome Wench wrote...

The Sanctuary mission states that Adrenaline can be used as a catalyst in indoctrination. Shepard is running down the hill dodging harbys red beam of death attempting to reach the conduit. Shepard gets knocked out cold by the red beam of death. Shepards body is full of adrenaline leaving them in a very very suseptable state for indoctrination. Harbinger being only a few hundreds metres away attempts to fully indoctrinate Shepard. Success or failure is your, the players, choice. You just don't know it.

Two things.

Firstly, if a person running high with adrenaline can indoctrinated within minutes just by being close to the Reapers, then virtually every single human would have been indoctrinated on day one of the invasion. Giant machines from space have just landed on your planet and are obliterating your cities - to a normal person, that is going to generate a serious amount of adrenaline. Given that there are multiple Reapers in each city, the vast majority of the population would be indoctrinated in no time at all. This is not the case - the people brought to the prison areas set up by the Reapers are described as still having free will in most cases as they commit acts of kindness to each other.

Secondly, indoctrination is not something you can simply overcome. The ME3 codex states that it is achieved through 'electromagnetic fields, infrasonic and ultrasonic noise, and other subliminal method'. You cannot overcome these forces with willpower. You can't simply choose to stop the signals entering your mind.  


and if you read the novels, you will see that it can be resisted, hell grayson resisted for a very long time.

ME1 shows you can resist it - both Benezia and Saren resist it. My point is that you cannot overcome it as this theory states - you can only delay it, and even then only by staying away from Reaper technology.

The theory relies on Shepard going from a point of being very indoctrinated to a point of being virtually free of it, which is impossible. The level of indoctrination cannot decreas - as the codex says, the changes to the mind caused by these signals are permanent.


Oh god...

that's... that's beautiful.

#11161
Fledgey

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Candidate 88766 wrote...
*Bull*****

All of these have been answered in the thread. Read moar.

#11162
prag16

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Earthborn_Shepard wrote...
Exactly my point, actually.

Also, this:

michael donahoe [/b]

@CooTweetBroI'm really pissed off people have spoiled that @masseffect 3 has an ending. OMG! IT ENDS? SPOILARZ!

Posted Image
Mass Effect[/b]

@masseffect@cootweetbro We've never said so~


dafuq?





Heh, unles that ME3 twitter feed has been consistently trolling us... something is defnitelyi afoot.


And yeah, at this point the dissenters are ALL using arguments that are laid to rest in the original post.  For anything NOT in the original post (same few points repeated every 20 pages or so)... maybe we should put together a wiki or FAQ... lol...

#11163
redBadger14

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I think people are reading too much into the fact that if Joker's eyes are green then he can't possibly be indoctrinated or have some form of Reaper tech synthesized in his body.

Green is simply the color that represents the ending that Shepard chose and the color that represents the merging of Synthetic and Organic life. Joker's eyes don't have to be blue.

#11164
MaP_Prime

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There is still one thing about the ending that has been bugging me, the Stargazer scene. Personally I hate scenes like that, but that's just me, but what has gotten me going is the child asking for stories of Shepard's other adventures. Now the question I have is what adventures does this refer to? I know it can simply mean the events of ME1 and ME2 as their own separate adventures, or it can refer to one of the origins for Shepard (stopping the Blitz for example). So it might be just that. Yet something also tells me there is more to it, that Shepard did something after the Reapers were beaten, because lets face it, even though Shepard has said multiple times she wants to retire once it is all done and she's alive she is still an influential and dominant figure in the galaxy, she would be taking an active role in the post-war galaxy. So that tells me she was up to something in the end. Sorry if this has already been talked about, but this thread is really damn long and I just can't read through all of it, it might also be me getting my hopes up for an ending that is a real ending, not the none ending we got.

#11165
Fledgey

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killnoob wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Noob451 wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Monochrome Wench wrote...

The Sanctuary mission states that Adrenaline can be used as a catalyst in indoctrination. Shepard is running down the hill dodging harbys red beam of death attempting to reach the conduit. Shepard gets knocked out cold by the red beam of death. Shepards body is full of adrenaline leaving them in a very very suseptable state for indoctrination. Harbinger being only a few hundreds metres away attempts to fully indoctrinate Shepard. Success or failure is your, the players, choice. You just don't know it.

Two things.

Firstly, if a person running high with adrenaline can indoctrinated within minutes just by being close to the Reapers, then virtually every single human would have been indoctrinated on day one of the invasion. Giant machines from space have just landed on your planet and are obliterating your cities - to a normal person, that is going to generate a serious amount of adrenaline. Given that there are multiple Reapers in each city, the vast majority of the population would be indoctrinated in no time at all. This is not the case - the people brought to the prison areas set up by the Reapers are described as still having free will in most cases as they commit acts of kindness to each other.

Secondly, indoctrination is not something you can simply overcome. The ME3 codex states that it is achieved through 'electromagnetic fields, infrasonic and ultrasonic noise, and other subliminal method'. You cannot overcome these forces with willpower. You can't simply choose to stop the signals entering your mind.  


and if you read the novels, you will see that it can be resisted, hell grayson resisted for a very long time.

ME1 shows you can resist it - both Benezia and Saren resist it. My point is that you cannot overcome it as this theory states - you can only delay it, and even then only by staying away from Reaper technology.

The theory relies on Shepard going from a point of being very indoctrinated to a point of being virtually free of it, which is impossible. The level of indoctrination cannot decreas - as the codex says, the changes to the mind caused by these signals are permanent.


Oh god...

that's... that's beautiful.

Now you're arguing semantics, bro. Here. Let me fix our theory for you. So the destroy option represents shepard's will to live, causing her to RESIST the indoctrination and wake up from being knocked unconscious. There. All patched up.

#11166
HairyMadDog1010

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Rifneno wrote...

I know the subject of the eyes has been brought up a lot.  But I've talked to quite a few people who don't see it, or don't think they're really what we think they are.  So I got some screenshots and when necessary magnified them so you can see them better.

Posted Image
That's the Illusive Man's eye in ME2. Note the pattern: an inner circle, an outer circle, and two orb shapes on the bottom left and right.

Posted Image
This is Saren's eye in ME1 right before he ragequits existence. It's different, but similar in a way. A large glowing center, an inner ring, a much smaller outer ring, and some wavy designs coming out of them.

Posted Image
This is Shepard's eye right after his face turned black in the control ending. This is the exact same pattern as the Illusive Man's. The only difference is the color. Which is similar to Saren's. I'll also note that the rest of the scene he seemed to be in immense pain as he's gripping the handles. After he turns like this, he simply looks deadpan and emotionless.

Posted Image
This is Shepard's eye during the synthesis ending. He's further from the camera and a lot of the time it's distorted by the green pulses, but this is still a clear enough shot to tell, without a doubt, that he has the same eyes here as in control.

Hopefully this helps convince someone that doesn't believe the eye evidence, which I personally consider to be the strongest evidence of the indoctrination theory.


Page 383...

#11167
Candidate 88766

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killnoob wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

ME1 shows you can resist it - both Benezia and Saren resist it. My point is that you cannot overcome it as this theory states - you can only delay it, and even then only by staying away from Reaper technology.

The theory relies on Shepard going from a point of being very indoctrinated to a point of being virtually free of it, which is impossible. The level of indoctrination cannot decreas - as the codex says, the changes to the mind caused by these signals are permanent.


Oh god...

that's... that's beautiful.

:huh:

#11168
Sheparded

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In mass effect 1 you can have one ending (you live), in mass effect 2 you have 2 endings (you live or die) and in mass effect 3 you have 3 endings (destroy,synthesis,control) IT ALL MAKES SENSE.

#11169
kent80082006

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killnoob wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Noob451 wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Monochrome Wench wrote...

The Sanctuary mission states that Adrenaline can be used as a catalyst in indoctrination. Shepard is running down the hill dodging harbys red beam of death attempting to reach the conduit. Shepard gets knocked out cold by the red beam of death. Shepards body is full of adrenaline leaving them in a very very suseptable state for indoctrination. Harbinger being only a few hundreds metres away attempts to fully indoctrinate Shepard. Success or failure is your, the players, choice. You just don't know it.

Two things.

Firstly, if a person running high with adrenaline can indoctrinated within minutes just by being close to the Reapers, then virtually every single human would have been indoctrinated on day one of the invasion. Giant machines from space have just landed on your planet and are obliterating your cities - to a normal person, that is going to generate a serious amount of adrenaline. Given that there are multiple Reapers in each city, the vast majority of the population would be indoctrinated in no time at all. This is not the case - the people brought to the prison areas set up by the Reapers are described as still having free will in most cases as they commit acts of kindness to each other.

Secondly, indoctrination is not something you can simply overcome. The ME3 codex states that it is achieved through 'electromagnetic fields, infrasonic and ultrasonic noise, and other subliminal method'. You cannot overcome these forces with willpower. You can't simply choose to stop the signals entering your mind.  


and if you read the novels, you will see that it can be resisted, hell grayson resisted for a very long time.

ME1 shows you can resist it - both Benezia and Saren resist it. My point is that you cannot overcome it as this theory states - you can only delay it, and even then only by staying away from Reaper technology.

The theory relies on Shepard going from a point of being very indoctrinated to a point of being virtually free of it, which is impossible. The level of indoctrination cannot decreas - as the codex says, the changes to the mind caused by these signals are permanent.


Oh god...

that's... that's beautiful.


LISTEN! The whole point is that the whole thing is an ATTEMPT to indoctrinate Shepherd, if he's already deeply indoctrinated as you said do you think he will still have a chance to make choices? NO!

#11170
Noob451

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HairyMadDog1010 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

I know the subject of the eyes has been brought up a lot.  But I've talked to quite a few people who don't see it, or don't think they're really what we think they are.  So I got some screenshots and when necessary magnified them so you can see them better.

Posted Image
That's the Illusive Man's eye in ME2. Note the pattern: an inner circle, an outer circle, and two orb shapes on the bottom left and right.

Posted Image
This is Saren's eye in ME1 right before he ragequits existence. It's different, but similar in a way. A large glowing center, an inner ring, a much smaller outer ring, and some wavy designs coming out of them.

Posted Image
This is Shepard's eye right after his face turned black in the control ending. This is the exact same pattern as the Illusive Man's. The only difference is the color. Which is similar to Saren's. I'll also note that the rest of the scene he seemed to be in immense pain as he's gripping the handles. After he turns like this, he simply looks deadpan and emotionless.

Posted Image
This is Shepard's eye during the synthesis ending. He's further from the camera and a lot of the time it's distorted by the green pulses, but this is still a clear enough shot to tell, without a doubt, that he has the same eyes here as in control.

Hopefully this helps convince someone that doesn't believe the eye evidence, which I personally consider to be the strongest evidence of the indoctrination theory.


Page 383...


i was looking for this

#11171
prag16

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Machines Are Us wrote...

Fascinating read, but too much has been read into it, and too much expectation on Bioware to be subtle where all evidence points to the contrary.


But that's just it...

Most in-game evidence indicates the indoctrination theory as being more probable than the "face value" theory.

The leading evidence for the "face value" theory is people assuming there's no Bioware can be this deep/clever/meta.

They're probably right.  But there's not enough evidence to dismiss the indoctrination theory out of hand.

#11172
IronSabbath88

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Shepard didn't have visions of ghostly images during his nightmares? You kidding me? They progressively get worse with these ghosty black images! They appear everywhere! Not to mention the whispers of old squadmates or other people.

The telltale signs of possible indoctrination were there the entire game. We just didn't pay attention to them until recently.

#11173
Kioux

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Candidate 88766 wrote...

Two things.

Firstly, if a person running high with adrenaline can indoctrinated within minutes just by being close to the Reapers, then virtually every single human would have been indoctrinated on day one of the invasion. Giant machines from space have just landed on your planet and are obliterating your cities - to a normal person, that is going to generate a serious amount of adrenaline. Given that there are multiple Reapers in each city, the vast majority of the population would be indoctrinated in no time at all. This is not the case - the people brought to the prison areas set up by the Reapers are described as still having free will in most cases as they commit acts of kindness to each other.

Secondly, indoctrination is not something you can simply overcome. The ME3 codex states that it is achieved through 'electromagnetic fields, infrasonic and ultrasonic noise, and other subliminal method'. You cannot overcome these forces with willpower. You can't simply choose to stop the signals entering your mind.  


And yet we, or at least I , had Saren as well as TIM defy the indoctrination at the end by killing themselves. So, that theory does not work to a 100% either from where I see it. And as far as I know, there are different sorts of Reapers with different ways to go about the invasion. And once they decide to harvest the species and they find out that - all in all - those humans can't really do anything about it, why waste time on indoctrinating? The only actual danger is Shepard and those that are going for the single way to destroy all of them, no?

#11174
kjir

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njfluffy19 wrote...

mr.surv wrote...

Ok another idea.

Why Anderson didn't open the arms of the citadel? He was at the console before Shep gets into the room.
!:bandit:


He is computer illiterate. Old people often are.

I'm sure he was trying, but then he gets herky-jerky, staggers around and gasps "Shepard... I... I can't..."
... I'm guessing he can't control his body. Reaper indoctrination just oozing off of the Illusive Man.

If that was the Illusive Man. Maybe the entire exercise was, like the OP said, just an indoctrinated hallucination. Still a bad way to end and the most bald-faced play at a DLC money-machine I've seen yet, especially because all that follows with that text telling you to expand the legend with future DLC.

#11175
Noob451

Noob451
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prag16 wrote...

Machines Are Us wrote...

Fascinating read, but too much has been read into it, and too much expectation on Bioware to be subtle where all evidence points to the contrary.


But that's just it...

Most in-game evidence indicates the indoctrination theory as being more probable than the "face value" theory.

The leading evidence for the "face value" theory is people assuming there's no Bioware can be this deep/clever/meta.

They're probably right.  But there's not enough evidence to dismiss the indoctrination theory out of hand.


these guys are beginning to sound like the Turian Councilor, we all know how that ended up.