57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Elanor]

MintyCool wrote...

Almost 500 posts...Seriously, some of you should take a step back and rethink your priorities in life...

We already won, the terrific finally to the Mass Effect saga will not be changed. Accept that.

My suggestion, it's Spring, maybe take in a little sun.

Vocal minorities always lose. Always. social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9870213/1

You don't say.

[MatthewGold]

MintyCool wrote...

Almost 500 posts...Seriously, some of you should take a step back and rethink your priorities in life...

We already won, the terrific finally to the Mass Effect saga will not be changed. Accept that.

My suggestion, it's Spring, maybe take in a little sun.

Vocal minorities always lose. Always. social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9870213/1

>Vocal minorities always lose.  
But the minority is people who are satisfied with the game ending.

Modifié par MatthewGold, 14 mars 2012 - 04:31 .

[Lurchibald]

Quick Question, why do people keep responding to killnoob? Obvious troll is obvious.

[kent80082006]

MintyCool wrote...

Almost 500 posts...Seriously, some of you should take a step back and rethink your priorities in life...

We already won, the terrific finally to the Mass Effect saga will not be changed. Accept that.

My suggestion, it's Spring, maybe take in a little sun.

Vocal minorities always lose. Always. social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9870213/1

*finale

Learn to spell right if you want others to take your opinion seriously

[Dap Brannigan]

Man, if this theory is true and they're releasing more content, then Bioware should really make a statement soon.

People seem to be returning their copies of ME3 in droves.

[Candidate 88766]

prag16 wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

And while these points alone aren't enough to 100% disprove the theory for some people, they are surely enough to call it into serious doubt at least.

Most of that has already been shot down in the thread.  And for whatever semi valid points exist within that list... that's still far less "problems" and "holes" than the "face value" theory causes.

So I'm told, but no-one has actually provided the counter arguments - understandable given the size of the threat though.

Lets start with a couple of them:

-Why would Bioware, a company built on making story-based games, end ME3 - the conclusion to one of their most successful and popular stories ever - on a cliffhanger simply so they could end it later with DLC? 

-Why market everything about this game as being around the concept of taking Earth back if you don't actually get to do that? If this theory is correct, the game ends before you get the chance to 'take Earth back'. 

If anyone has counter-arguments ot these, I'd like to see them. This isn't meant to be confrontational, but to me these are two of the most logical arguments against the theory.

[njfluffy19]

D0G S0LD1ER wrote...

I don't know if this has been said or not yet but, did anyone else notice that the planet the Normandy crashes on and the planet that the stargazers are on is the could possibly be the same planet? (notice the position of the two moons). However, I don't know if it means anything, maybe someone else can shed some light on this.

Yeah, posted it awhile back. Looks to be the same or is just another one of those "coincidences" that are found heavily in the third game.

[Sheparded]

Dap Brannigan wrote...

Man, if this theory is true and they're releasing more content, then Bioware should really make a statement soon.

People seem to be returning their copies of ME3 in droves.

If i had a console version i would of returned it already.

[sjrskl]

I posted this on another forum it's a compilation on little stuff that
points to the indoctrination theory it can come across as a little tinfoil
hat-ish but all I can say to that is deal with it.





I love the theory that the ending is in fact fake as it is an attempt by
harbinger to indoctrinate both Shepard and the player.

this might come off as crazy or fan boyish or simple denying that the ending
sucked but it doesn't matter because it's a compelling theory.

first let's examine the little boy Shepard sees throughout the game. is he
even real ? we see in the beginning of the game a little boy playing with a toy
inside the alliance compound maybe a bit strange for a child to be there but
nothing out of the ordinary. later when the reapers are starting to land we see
the child running in to a building which is promptly blown up by a reaper. as
we enter the building Shepard notices the child hiding in a ventilation shaft.

the kid says something rather strange for a boy his age: "everyone is
dying" and in the following moments Shepard tries to help but hears a
reaper behind him then the boy says "You can't help me" and Shepard
seems a bit taken back. then Anderson calls out to Shepard and suddenly the
boy is gone. also notice the danger of electrocution sign next to the shaft.
Anderson doesn't seem to notice that Shepard saw that kid and Shepard doesn't
say anything about it as well.

later when Shepard is about to leave on the Normandy we see the child
climbing in to a transport which gets blown out of the sky making it once and
for all clear the kid died. but strangely during the whole time no one but Shepard
acknowledges the kid or tries to help him. On the citadel we can see a picture
of the boy at the memorial wall in the refugee area of the citadel. when Shepard
first returns to the ship after getting shafted by the council he experiences a
dream. we see a desolate forest and the kid running in the distance Shepard
tries to run towards the kid and as he gets closer we see the kid going up in flames.
If you try to run away from the kid you first get turned around but if you do
it again you get teleported to the kid implying you can't run away from it.

as the game progresses Shepard starts to lose (a bit of) hope of making it
through even as he unites the galaxy we can see the war take its toll on Shepard;
as he experiences more dreams we can see the dead starting to appear we hear
the voices of the companions we've lost in the war and see "oily"
shadows and hear voices.

just before the attack on the Cerberus base Shepard has one final dream
filled with shadows and voices ending with Shepard seeing himself embrace the
boy and with a rather creepy smile going up in flames alongside the boy. all of
this is rather strange and after the dream Shepard is irritable and confused.

in the final assault where everyone is trying to get to the conduit (ME 1
anyone?) harbinger finally shows up and starts lasering everything in sight
including Shepard. when we see him "wake up" (this is the part where
the indoctrination becomes reality) we see harby flying away and Shepard
getting up in a wasteland with corpses in front of him. depending on your EMS score
we can see our companions lying dead or not (higher score = we don't see them)
and on the left we can see the same kind of trees that were visible in the
strange dreams.

as a player we can't pan the camera down to see our feet and we get a gun
with unlimited bullets. we see mountains of corpses lying around the conduit
and as we walk towards the conduit husks and a marauder appears (sometimes only
the marauder, I assume it depends on difficulty or EMS don't know for sure
yet). Shepard walks faster than his/her animation would suggest but also still
very slow like in the dreams. also just like in the dreams the surroundings are
a bit blurred.

Shep steps on to the conduit and is teleported to a new part of the citadel.
we hear Anderson on the comm. and Shepard reacts and speaks without pressing
his ear (what you see him do in most of the game when he communicates with
someone over the comm.). again we see a lot of corpses all of which bald and
with a doll like appearance. we see two keepers both of which are typing on
nothing but air.

Anderson says the place looks just like how Shepard described the collector
base and Shepard agrees even when this is not the case. Anderson mentions
shifting walls Shepard then walks through a doorway and comes across the chasm
to see Anderson standing in front of a console. the strange thing about that is
Shepard was in front of Anderson when the run to the conduit began. also
Anderson seemed completely unharmed. we also hear Cole mention that everyone
was wiped out by harby would two people going in to the not conduit stand out ?

we then see TIM enter the scene he looks like a half transformed husk and
starts trying to convince Shepard that control is the best option for
humanity. he uses arguments strangely similar to Saren at the end of mass
effect 1. parallel to the ending of ME 1 as a pure paragon and having chosen
the paragon option throughout the game (specifically to TIM) we can persuade
TIM to break through the indoctrination and shoot himself but not before Shepard
shoots Anderson in his belly. Shepard then opens the citadel so the crucible
can link up.

we see a scene where Anderson and Shepard talk ending in the death of Anderson.
Shepard then hears Hacket over the comm. and Shepard again talks back without
pressing his ear. but before Shep can reach the console he passes out
interestingly he clutches his belly right on the spot where he shot Anderson
and Anderson didn't seem to be hurt at all by the shot. one thing to note was
in the environment where supposedly no organics had come there is a structure
that was also seen on the shadow brokers ship with the code 1m1 on it. this is
strange because why would a otherwise clean environment (as in no discernible
structures or text) have that in it. also 1m1 is used in a formula in optics
for convergence and in a logical statement means that something will always
lead to the same outcome no matter what.

we see Shepard being lifted up or "ascending" as it were to the
exterior of the citadel. there he is greeted by the boy we see in the beginning
and the dreams. he introduces himself as the catalyst depending on EMS again we
see a difference. his behavior changes when you have a low score the boy says:
"what are you doing here" on higher scores he says: "wake up".
we never get to know why the catalyst just happens to look like the kid. Shep
asks if the catalyst knows how to defeat the reapers. the catalyst then explains
his BS solution to the organic synthetic conflict. and offers three solutions
(two if you score lower or even one in the absolute worst case scenarios) the
first is the destroy ending this will nuke the reapers but also (according to
the catalyst) the Geth and EDI and even Shep himself will die and he implies
this choice is bad don't go for it.

the Second choice is control he tries to appeal to Shepard's pride saying
do you think you can control us ? he makes it clear Shepard will die but will
also control a very paradoxical answer. and finally synthesis the best solution
I mean it's green and it takes more effort to achieve at all then the red or blue
ending and in this one everyone but Shep gets to live another day. this is to
both indicate to Shepard and the player that it is most def the best choice. Shepard
can't really argue with the catalyst so the player is forced to make a choice.
in the confusing moments that follow we can see the three colored endings which
by now must have been burned into the brains of every hater and lover of mass
effect and generally leave a bad taste in everyone's mouths.

what I haven't expanded upon is that when you read the codex entry for
indoctrination : it
becomes clear that these things are happening to commander Shepard. he sees
and hears dead people (albeit in dreams) also describable as alien voices, he
can possibly kill the VS, he can choose not to renegade interrupt Kai Leng or
Udina al pointing towards subtle hints of indoctrination (of both Shep and the
player to learned ME behavior). it is left ambiguous if the protean vi
recognizes Kai Leng or Shepard being indoctrinated. the VS asks on mars if you
would know if you are being controlled and later on the Geth virtual reality mission
joker asks if you know if you are in reality again. I see these as subtle hints
(perhaps I look to much into them but still) to indoctrination or at least a
plea to examine in game reality. Also we only see the boy when Shep is unconscious
in the dreams making it again more possible that Shep is unconscious in the end.
Never in the story until the very end can we see Shep being influenced by
indoctrination even though he has spent a lot of time around reaper artifacts
and reapers themselves.

but let's get into the stuff that makes it really weird shall we . when
listening to the catalyst we hear three voices: the kid and man an femshep. in
the line: "you have more hope than you think" hale's voice emphasizes
the word think (not to Shep but the player). when the choices are presented the
destroy ending resembles Anderson but the choice is red indicating a divergence
in whether you should believe Anderson is doing a renegade thing, or the colors
are intentionally mixed with the parallel blue ending where we see TIM. note
that throughout the game Anderson, Hacket and Shep decide that destroying the
reapers is the only solution; to cooperate is to die. note how the blue and
green choices are brighter choices than the red one. also see how control looks
like a reaper structure and red like an alliance one.

When choosing either control or synthesis we see Shep disintegrating but
just before he is gone we see what looks like a husk of commander Shepard,
also note the TIM eyes on the control ending. TIM represents the blue control
choice, Saren represents the green choice and Anderson represents the red
choice. why does Saren represent the green choice ? because if you listen to Saren's
speech at the end of ME 1 you clearly hear him talking about being synthetic
and flesh, organic and steel and being with sovereign is teh awesome www.youtube.com/watch
.

what do these choices really represent then ? I see it as blue you become a
husk as you try to control a force much greater then yourself. green you become
either a sleeper agent or "Saren-like" imitation because you gave in
to the will of the reapers (notice how Shepard accepts the ending by jumping
into a beam like surrendering to it) and red you fight of indoctrination it is
the only ending where you have to use violence to achieve it. one of the main
reasons to support the idea that red means fighting indoctrination is the fact
that you need 4000-5000 EMS to get to see a small clip where Shepard is lying
under what appear to be concrete rubble and takes a surprised breath. what does
it actually do then and wtf is up with joker flying the Normandy in the middle
of nowhere to crash on some random planet ?

my explanation is a lot of the ending is metaphysical or rather an
interpretation to the player to see the internal struggle of commander Shepard
trying to fight of indoctrination before he either dies/becomes indoctrinated
or lives during this whole time he remains on earth just meters away from the
conduit. the crucible firing is the final heartbeat of commander Shepard before
the end and the Normandy crashing on a random planet are Shepard's last
thoughts about his best friends somehow surviving whatever he happens to
choose. it's funny how crucible can mean a very though test or challenge and
maybe it means Bioware is testing the resolve of players to have Shepard stick
to his resolve to kill the reapers even at the possible cost of genocide and
murder (possibly suicide). We can see the player as the willpower of Shepard seeing as we are the ones making all of his decisions so to corrupt Sheps willpower bioware has to corrupt us. (maximum tinfoil hat here)


also funny is how the only way to get to the scene where Shepard is alive
and breathes in is to choose the option that the catalyst insists will end up
killing you and not resolve anything in the future. the breathing clip plays
after the crash landing implying that none of it happened. as everyone has
pointed out in numerous threads on the webs; the current endings feel wrong,
too short and fake. the reality might be that Bioware is trolling everyone with
this ending and the true ending is yet to come as a(possibly at cost) DLC or a
patch. it could also mean Bioware just lost its touch and really screwed up.

please excuse any and all grammatical errors as English is not my native
language.

 

Modifié par sjrskl, 14 mars 2012 - 04:34 .

[IronSabbath88]

I find it ironic that your last mission you can play is just after the beam hits you. Not the entire mission. Just that part.

Also, I can confirm that you cannot save during it, there's only autosaves during certain parts of the mission.

[killnoob]

Noob451 wrote...

please, PLEASE come up with actual evidence proving otherwise, other than repeating the same thing over and over.

where is YOUR actual evidence proving Hallucination theory is real?

I've already disproved every single possible arguements there are in support of the theory.

Unless you show me hard concrete evidence proving the hallucination theory is 100% correct, don't ask me to "prove that it isn't real" because just because you cant prove the REAL Santa Claus doesn't exist, doesn't mean he does.

[Wildsforg]

Any Bioware official news was about it?

[Kakaw]

I agree that the overall pattern and the sudden "waking-up" in a pile of rubble in the end shows that it was shepard fighting indoctrination. I believe it cause it makes sense, and not only because I wish it to be this way; but, what about the old man and the kid talking at the end? They show up in all 3 endings. Which means that there is human life still in this very cycle, and the reapers didn't reap, no matter the ending. Why? Or was this still before he woke up; and part of the hallucinations?

Modifié par Kakaw, 14 mars 2012 - 04:37 .

[redBadger14]

killnoob wrote...



Facepalm.

Right so none of the three end cut scenes are real.

Even with the destroyer option, where you actually SEE reaper destroyed.
Shepard doesn't immediately wakes up - instead he dream some more about reapers getting destroyed and how normandy crushland and joker walk out with his best buddy and watch the sunset blah blah

Enough is enough. = =

Learn to type coherent, English sentences and I may consider taking that post seriously.

[Candidate 88766]

Capeo wrote...

I've read the thread and the mental gymnastics are a joke.  BW wrote a crappy ending.  That's it.  The endings match the script exactly.  The script outright says Synergy is the best outcome.  The script outright says TIM is indoctrinated and says nothing about Shep being indoctrinated.  Synergy unlocks after Destroy and Control meaning BW thinks its the best option.  EDI and Joker look happy in the Synergy ending.  Again, the best outcome.  The game tells you outright you defeated the Reapers both on the damn screen and in the epilogue.

I agree with this to an extent.

And while I appreciate that people are looking for something - anything - to make the endings seem better, it seems like a false hope and ultimately more disappointment will come. 

Modifié par Candidate 88766, 14 mars 2012 - 04:35 .

[MintyCool]

You're the political equivalent to the Occupy Movement. Poor unemployed liberals who feel that the world owes them something.

Unfortunately for you, the majority (Fans of the ending, the media, and Bioware) will just continue to walk on by as you beat your tin drum. lol.

Accept it. Minorites always lose.

Modifié par MintyCool, 14 mars 2012 - 04:38 .

[HairyMadDog1010]

This thread kind of remainds me of the reaping cycle, every few pages we assimilate a few, as then more spring up to argue. Then they to are assimilated.

We are your salvation!!

Modifié par HairyMadDog1010, 14 mars 2012 - 04:36 .

[Wattoes]

I just watched the "up at noon" thing on IGN with Casey Hudson.

He makes it pretty clear that all dlc they make in the future will just be "sugar on top" and they would never leave key details out of the main experience.

I hate to say it folks, but thats pretty much a nail in the coffin.

[Noob451]

killnoob wrote...

Noob451 wrote...

please, PLEASE come up with actual evidence proving otherwise, other than repeating the same thing over and over.

where is YOUR actual evidence proving Hallucination theory is real?

I've already disproved every single possible arguements there are in support of the theory.

Unless you show me hard concrete evidence proving the hallucination theory is 100% correct, don't ask me to "prove that it isn't real" because just because you cant prove the REAL Santa Claus doesn't exist, doesn't mean he does.

you have not disproved anything, which is why i would like the see actual counter arguments from you instead of posts basically saying "no you're wrong" and then asking a question

Modifié par Noob451, 14 mars 2012 - 04:36 .

[N7L4D]

Noob451 wrote...

I'm starting to feel like this thread has become similar to Shepard trying to tell everyone about the reapers, and everyone else just dismissing it with no actual counter argument.  (in most cases anyway, I have seen some well thought out counter arguments)

Exactly what I've bin thinking lol

[njfluffy19]

redBadger14 wrote...

killnoob wrote...



Facepalm.

Right so none of the three end cut scenes are real.

Even with the destroyer option, where you actually SEE reaper destroyed.
Shepard doesn't immediately wakes up - instead he dream some more about reapers getting destroyed and how normandy crushland and joker walk out with his best buddy and watch the sunset blah blah

Enough is enough. = =

Learn to type coherent, English sentences and I may consider taking that post seriously.

[HairyMadDog1010]

killnoob wrote...

Noob451 wrote...

please, PLEASE come up with actual evidence proving otherwise, other than repeating the same thing over and over.

where is YOUR actual evidence proving Hallucination theory is real?

I've already disproved every single possible arguements there are in support of the theory.

Unless you show me hard concrete evidence proving the hallucination theory is 100% correct, don't ask me to "prove that it isn't real" because just because you cant prove the REAL Santa Claus doesn't exist, doesn't mean he does.

Read the op.......

Modifié par HairyMadDog1010, 14 mars 2012 - 04:38 .

[byne]

MintyCool wrote...

You are all the political equivalent to the Occupy Movement. Poor unemployed liberals who feel that the world owes them something.

Unfortunately for you, the majority (Fans of the ending, the media, and Bioware) will just continue to walk on by as you beat you tin drum. lol.

Accept it.

Oh, I get it, you're either a troll or a Fox News viewer.

No wonder you liked the ending.

[redBadger14]

Chipikowski wrote...

I'm sorry, I'm a 100% positive this has been mentioned several times before, but i'm not planning on scouting through 400 pages...
But I saw my squadmates after I got hit by the laser. In a pool of blood. One of them my LI, and them coming out of the Normandy really messed with my feelings. Just saying, those that stated the squaddies were not there or standing somewhere in the back, maybe it's a bug?
Because mine were pretty dead. So I really, REALLY hope that all after the laser was a dream. Hallucination. Indoctrination. Whatever.

Come on, Bioware. Show us that you're not only the master of RPG's, but also the master of trolling. I'd salute you, get the DLC, and if it's good, I might not burn your headquarters down

You only see your squadmates dead if your EMS is too low. I believe over 5000 or 6000 and they "live" or are not shown to be dead.