57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Capeo]

Fledgey wrote...

Just stop responding to killnoob, he's just getting people riled up on purpose. There's no reason to respond whatsoever.

Why, because he's making sense?  There's nothing to this indoctrination theory.

[blooregard]

Wattoes wrote...

blooregard wrote...

Wattoes wrote...

I just watched the "up at noon" thing on IGN with Casey Hudson.

He makes it pretty clear that all dlc they make in the future will just be "sugar on top" and they would never leave key details out of the main experience.

I hate to say it folks, but thats pretty much a nail in the coffin.

wasn't he also the one that said "there would be no unanswered questions or loose ends" and that "not everybody would get the same 'A B or C'" and then everyone gets the same  A,B,or C ending

Ya fair enough.  In the same video he also talks about how this is "the most conclusive ending weve ever done".

Im not trying to be evil here, merely pointing out something that hasn't been mentioned yet.   The sad fact is that, with almost certainty, these are the intended endings.

understandable but think of this. Hudson said the DLC was "sugar on top" if the indoctronation theory is DLC the current ending is set up to be the end of the game AS WELL as being set up to be the indoctronation theory. 

[killnoob]

lex0r11 wrote...

isn't that the point? doesn't indoctrination start with 'mindgames' and only after it is 100% complete you can control him. and shep obviously isn't normal compared to other indoctrination victims. he resisted als these excesive reaper contact all these games.

So are you saying that even the cinematic after you choose destroy isn't real?

That Shepard dreamed/hallucinated some more even after choosing Destroy?

And he always hallucinate the same thing about normandy crash into some unknown planet?

[Descedent]

Noob451 wrote...

Fledgey wrote...

Just stop responding to killnoob, he's just getting people riled up on purpose. There's no reason to respond whatsoever.

this

trolls are hungry

[lex0r11]

killnoob wrote...

Erethrian wrote...


Again with that? O.o

"You're trolling/joking, right? Stop the rage and hate for now.

Shepard's already seen those options, not because he's been in the crucible
before, but because he's already seen what Saren and what TIM wanted
(Synergy/Control). Also if your choice was to keep the CB at the end of
ME2, the only option is to CONTROL the reapers (with low EMS). So,
actually, the indoctrination theory is the only thing that makes sense.

The reapers TRY to indoctrinate Shepard's mind, they try to keep him away from the DESTROY option, but it's still SHEPARD'S MIND, not HARBRINGER's mind, so it's his call. He is confused by the
indoctrination but he's the only one who can free himself from the
indoctrination by choosing the Destroy option.

Anyway, I think Shepard still survives whatever his choice is, but maybe (if a true
ending is coming) his actions once he awakes are based or influenced by
the choose he made.

That said, not trying to be offensive, it's just pissing me off all the hate you have..."

Dude, that's what happens in the current ending.

They're saying "the cyber kid is attempting to sway Shepard from choosing the destroy option"

But I'm saying there's no indication of the kid even "TRYING" to sway him

He just accept Shepard's answer like he respect his choice.

where is he verbaly accepting it? it's a thing in his head through indoctrination. if shep goes '**** it, i'll still do it my way' harbinger failed to overtake his mind. like i said before, shep isn't like other indoctrination victims.

[Majusbeh]

njfluffy19 wrote...

Majusbeh wrote...

 just wanted to add something that may be relevant.

at the very beginning of the game anderson's saying something about shepard getting a little bit "round around the edges" (fat) and touches his belly exactly were shepard is later wounded (and isn't anderson also shot were shepard is shot?).
that's maybe nothing, but it feels relevant, because afterwards shepard touches his own belly in a way...well...it's strange

http://www.youtube.c...40MFYrR0#t=509s

I think it's meant to be a joke.

Edit: And to show the player that Shepard has been out of commission since the events of Me2 and its DLC.

yes I know it's a joke, just thought it is a little coincident ^^

[Noob451]

njfluffy19 wrote...

Capeo wrote...


Who says you do believe him?  You can still choose whatever you want.  I'm just telling you BW labels the Synergy ending as "perfect" and "saving the galaxy".  It ends all chance of wars and no synthetic race has to die.  Which is nice for the Geth considering they offer to fight the Reapers if you side with them.

Where is this said? You only need a slightly higher reputation and EMS. How does that make it perfect? Saren wanted this from the beginning, so by your thought process, Saren was correct from the beginning and we were wrong in killing him? That is a ridiculous conclusion to come to. Think about it.

The "perfect" ending (Highest EMS, hardest to obtain) is from destroy. We can assume that this is the "best" and "secret" ending because of the cut scene at the end (Shepard taking a breath in some rubble). So tell me, how is synthesis the best option?

besides isn't it all about making tough choices?  the entire game we're asked, what would you sacrifice?   Synthesis and control just seem like easy ways out, with no real consequences.  (remember shepard supposedly dies in all 3 choices)

Modifié par Noob451, 14 mars 2012 - 05:03 .

[prag16]

HairyMadDog1010 wrote...

frajerik wrote...

Noob451 wrote...

MatthewGold wrote...

Michał Korniluk ‏ @MichaKorniluk
@BioEvilChris There are also people selling incomplete data telling us it's complete. Such people are bastards, aren't they?

Chris Priestly ‏ @BioEvilChris
@MichaKorniluk Good thing I don't know anyone like that.


Oh ho ho ho.

damn it Chris!   staight answer! come on!

So the game is complete = endings stays.

Or it could be a patch that activates the mounds of  unused final battle dialogue.

Eh, I'd assume stuff like that would have already been datamined.  Unless they were SUPER sneaky, and whatever conclusion they have uses the games engine (no prerendered cutscenes) and has no recorded dialogue... hmmm.

[killnoob]

Capeo wrote...

Fledgey wrote...

Just stop responding to killnoob, he's just getting people riled up on purpose. There's no reason to respond whatsoever.

Why, because he's making sense?  There's nothing to this indoctrination theory.

Thanks,

Good to know there are people who can reason clearly and not just grasping straws whenever possible.

[njfluffy19]

killnoob wrote...

Dude, that's what happens in the current ending.

They're saying "the cyber kid is attempting to sway Shepard from choosing the destroy option"

But I'm saying there's no indication of the kid even "TRYING" to sway him

He just accept Shepard's answer like he respect his choice.

But the child may also be part of Shepard's subconscious. Think about it-- is it simply coincidence this child looks exactly like the one met in the beginning in the ducts, the one also in his/her dreams? Maybe it doesn't argue with Shepard because it is not solely indoctrination.

[Lemondish]

Capeo wrote...

Lemondish wrote...

Capeo wrote...

kent80082006 wrote...

Recap of star child on destroy option

You can destroy all reapers if you like
Can you imagine your life without synthetics?
Even you are partly synthetics
Including the geth

It's obvious that the star child doesn't want you to choose the destroy option
However Shpeherd will only wake up if you choose the destroy option
So if you can't explain why the star child so subtly try to interfere with Shepher's choice with those unnecessary details you have to admit there's something more to the ending

That's because BW themselves see this as the worst outcome.  Read the script.  The whole point of the game is to bring synthetics and organics together.  BW uses the word "perfect" in regards to the Synergy ending.

If the whole point of the game is to bring synthetics and organics together, why do you believe the kid when he says there must be a new solution or 'synthetics will kill all organics'. There's no evidence to suggest any synthetics will rise up and kill organics as it has yet to happen. The geth are the only example, and we learned through the story that they were simply defending themselves.

Who says you do believe him?  You can still choose whatever you want.  I'm just telling you BW labels the Synergy ending as "perfect" and "saving the galaxy".  It ends all chance of wars and no synthetic race has to die.  Which is nice for the Geth considering they offer to fight the Reapers if you side with them.

If by Bioware labelling the Syngergy ending as perfect, you mean the Catalyst does. Keep in mind that Synthesis is not only exactly what Saren was going on about, it is also eerily familiar to the concept of ascencion that Harbinger details.

I feel you're making a mistake by assuming that Bioware is giving the message without considering the messenger.

[HairyMadDog1010]

Capeo wrote...

Fledgey wrote...

Just stop responding to killnoob, he's just getting people riled up on purpose. There's no reason to respond whatsoever.

Why, because he's making sense?  There's nothing to this indoctrination theory.

Have you even read tho OP?

[Helnos]

Got to admit it makes sense, but you have to understand how the indoctrination process works. Everything shepard sees on "the citadel" is a construct of his own mind, the reapers whispering to him while he's unconcious.

You could be fighting the reapers for a battle of your own mind! They tell you what you want to hear, convince you that there is another way to end the conflict without destroying synthetics, guilt trip you into seeing thier way of thinking and when you give up your ideals, even if it's only to comprimise they have you!

Sticking to your guns, your mission DESTROY THE REAPERS "AT ANY COST" (Javik also tells you this many many times) Is the only way to regain controll of your own mind (and body).

Hence the only ending where shep wakes up....

[njfluffy19]

I smell trolls.

[blooregard]

Capeo wrote...

Fledgey wrote...

Just stop responding to killnoob, he's just getting people riled up on purpose. There's no reason to respond whatsoever.

Why, because he's making sense?  There's nothing to this indoctrination theory.

if you can counter EVERY piece of evidence supporting the indoctronation theory I'm sure we'll all believe you if you can't then stop saying the theory is baseless

[777crowe777]

lex0r11 wrote...

kent80082006 wrote...

Recap of star child on destroy option

You can destroy all reapers if you like
Can you imagine your life without synthetics?
Even you are partly synthetics
Including the geth

It's obvious that the star child doesn't want you to choose the destroy option
However Shpeherd will only wake up if you choose the destroy option
So if you can't explain why the star child so subtly try to interfere with Shepher's choice with those unnecessary details you have to admit there's something more to the ending

"but the reapers will be destroyed?"
"yes, but the peace won't last. soon, your children will create synthetics and then the chaos will come back."

this.
it's the only option that is presented as negative. no real manipulation other than 'positive' end results in the other two options, only a short decription.

The mass relays are gone so it doesnt matter what option you choose.... everyone looses!!! (Poor Quarians:homeworld back=help earth=loose homeworld )

Still dont understand why Joker is running anyway? Anyone else get that stupid part? (Crucible=kill da reaps, NOT Crucible=kill everyone so F***ing RUN!)

Modifié par 777crowe777, 14 mars 2012 - 05:06 .

[lex0r11]

killnoob wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

isn't that the point? doesn't indoctrination start with 'mindgames' and only after it is 100% complete you can control him. and shep obviously isn't normal compared to other indoctrination victims. he resisted als these excesive reaper contact all these games.

So are you saying that even the cinematic after you choose destroy isn't real?

That Shepard dreamed/hallucinated some more even after choosing Destroy?

And he always hallucinate the same thing about normandy crash into some unknown planet?

where did you get that out of my post?

[MatthewGold]

Capeo wrote...

Fledgey wrote...

Just stop responding to killnoob, he's just getting people riled up on purpose. There's no reason to respond whatsoever.

Why, because he's making sense?  There's nothing to this indoctrination theory.

Maybe you're right.
Even so, I'm enjoying this, be it delusion or reality.  What does it matter? It's not like us talking about this breaks your legs or kills kittens.

[Lurchibald]

that is all...

[Fledgey]

blooregard wrote...

Capeo wrote...

Fledgey wrote...

Just stop responding to killnoob, he's just getting people riled up on purpose. There's no reason to respond whatsoever.

Why, because he's making sense?  There's nothing to this indoctrination theory.

if you can counter EVERY piece of evidence supporting the indoctronation theory I'm sure we'll all believe you if you can't then stop saying the theory is baseless

(He's trolling too, just ignore them. They're derailing the thread. Shhhhh)

[Golferguy758]

The counter arguments that the majority of naysayers use can be summarized with the follotwing statement. "ah yes, "indoctrination" we have dismissed that claim"

[HairyMadDog1010]

prag16 wrote...

HairyMadDog1010 wrote...

frajerik wrote...

Noob451 wrote...

MatthewGold wrote...

Michał Korniluk ‏ @MichaKorniluk
@BioEvilChris There are also people selling incomplete data telling us it's complete. Such people are bastards, aren't they?

Chris Priestly ‏ @BioEvilChris
@MichaKorniluk Good thing I don't know anyone like that.


Oh ho ho ho.

damn it Chris!   staight answer! come on!

So the game is complete = endings stays.

Or it could be a patch that activates the mounds of  unused final battle dialogue.

Eh, I'd assume stuff like that would have already been datamined.  Unless they were SUPER sneaky, and whatever conclusion they have uses the games engine (no prerendered cutscenes) and has no recorded dialogue... hmmm.

I think the dialogue has. I rember a line were joker said he was bringing his girls home (Normady and EDI) and various other battle dialogue.

[AgentMulder5]

Just going to repost something I wrote elsewhere.

I don't know if this has been mentioned before, and if it has forgive me, but I think the ending is but one of two types of indoctrination at work on Shepard. I cobbled this together while trying to unify the two theories on when exactly the indoctrination began, and explain why that VI didn't freak when Shepard got near.

I would argue that Shepard's journey down the indoctrinated rabbit hole began on the derelict Reaper back in ME2. Since all Reaper tech gives off this indoctrinating effect, it would be reasonable to assume that Shepard would be subject to this as well. I believe that a mentally strong Shepard is able to resist most of this slow, gradual indoctrination through shear will. His/her military service, combined with the dire nature of the mission and the will to complete it give Shepard an edge over this basic mind manipulation, hence why we see no effects of indoctrination in most of ME2.

I believe that Arrival is the first time indoctrination had any effect on Shepard for one reason. Being forced to kill thousands of Batarians to stop the Reapers was an incredible mental strain, above and beyond that of the mission at hand. As ME3 progresses and various bits and bobs of Reaper tech are encountered, the subtle indoctrination continues. The loss of so many innocent chips at Shepard's mental armor, and while he/she still resists the indoctrination, it becomes harder to resist as the game progresses.

I would argue the increasingly dire nature of Shepard's dreams is his/her mind trying to cope with resisting the indoctrination. While Shepard is not actively aware he/she is being indoctrinated, the unconscious is, and the dreams are a projection of that. While it's been stated that the burning boy is supposed to represent Harbinger, I would argue that he represents one of the lines Harbinger repeats over and over, "salvation through destruction."

To a Reaper mind, the killing the boy saves him from the chaos an organic/synthetic strife would bring. Remember how the last dream shows both the boy and Shepard burning? I think this points to the ever increasing effect the indoctrination is having on Shepard. By the endgame, I think the Reapers are showing Shepard in the end his/her salvation can only be obtained through their destruction (control/synthesis endings). Shepard would have no reason to suspect this because the gradual indoctrination doesn't become extremely apparent until the very end.

Still Shepard resists and fights the indoctrination. The Reaper's end-game goal of turning the galaxy's beacon of hope against them isn't working. It is in London, as Shepard runs towards the lift, that Harbinger realizes that Shepard isn't going to fall the easy way. It decides to attempt the more rapid form of indoctrination to prevent Shepard from killing the Reapers. I would argue this more overt indoctrination is what leads to the hallucination, rather than a slight tingle and some trippy dreams. From there on, Shepard either fights or gives in to the indoctrination.

tl;dr

Shepard gets treated to an indoctrination buffet over the course of ME2 and ME3. Through his/her willpower, they are able to resist the passive, slow indoctrination forcing Harbinger to attempt the more rapid form. This leads to the LSD-trip of an ending we know and hate. This could explain why the Prothean VI doesn't detect indoctrination in Shepard. With their resistance, it's as if the indoctrination never happened at all. Given sufficient time between directly encountering Reaper tech, Shepard is able to resist.

[IronSabbath88]

MatthewGold wrote...

Capeo wrote...

Fledgey wrote...

Just stop responding to killnoob, he's just getting people riled up on purpose. There's no reason to respond whatsoever.

Why, because he's making sense?  There's nothing to this indoctrination theory.

Maybe you're right.
Even so, I'm enjoying this, be it delusion or reality.  What does it matter? It's not like us talking about this breaks your legs or kills kittens.

This. It's better to talk about this than go all "omg, Bioware is teh poopiez"

[PyroByte]

Cellander wrote...

Ramps and receivers on the side on the Citadel:

The things on the left and right side of the ramp bear a really close resemblance to the capacity generators on the hull of the shadow broker vessel (the ones that discharge energy when you shot them). Could still be just coincidence.