57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Sheparded]

Jaxitty wrote...

Has anyone considered, assuming you believe the Indoctrination Theory, (which I do) that even with all the evidence that your average joe couldn't just shake off indoctrination....Shep is 3/4 synthetic! That he may be resistant to a majority of the nastier side effects of it but still succumb to parts of it because s/he's still partly organic.

I will add though, that I don't know whether synthetics can even BE indoctrinated and if they can how it works...someone with more time or who has already memorized the codex's from the three games can fill in those gaps

Synthetics are much easier to indoctrinate (take the geth for example), and that could work towards our theory for shepard being indoctrinated.

[killnoob]

Moshaaver wrote...

I'm glad that the trolling has been reduced to referencing the World Trade Center, maybe next they'll talk about Hitler.

Sure.

If someone actually think they leak the script on purpose

AND  THEN

go through the pain of changing it to a worse ending

I can bring up hitler no problem.

Modifié par killnoob, 14 mars 2012 - 05:19 .

[Golferguy758]

Goddammit. trolls ruined this thread. Seriously just going around and around in circles. If you want to believe that bw screwed up, fine. Go be miserable in the other 8000 threads.

See some of the regulars on the othrr forums

[Kulthar Drax]

This is my first time posting here, but after considering the indoctrination theory, it is the only one that makes any real sense. The endings as they stand contribute no closure or satisfactory conclusion to the trilogy or the mass effect universe in general. In fact, if nothing else I would like an ending which DOESN'T destroy all galactic civilization in the form of all Mass Relays being destroyed. Because otherwise, you may as well let the Reapers win. At least the next cycle might have a chance at destroying the Reapers without wrecking galactic civilization to boot. Perhaps one of the endings could be in the far future, with a couple of Yahg discovering Liara's time capsule containing information on defeating the Reapers. Again, another indication of the whole indoctrination and "let the reapers win" attitude. Although yes, you can argue that all the endings result in Mass Relay destructions, I think this is still a hallucination because not even the Reapers will want the relays destroyed.

Bioware want to continue making games in the Mass Effect universe and while you could just make them pre-reaper invasion, it does rather still limit you considerably for the future. This is just another reason why I think the real endings will be released eventually and that it was all a hallucination. Hell, when you go to the destroy option at the end, you're even shooting at a "power conduit", which can theoretically symbolize destroying the Reapers' power over you.

Modifié par Kulthar Drax, 14 mars 2012 - 05:20 .

[njfluffy19]

Capeo wrote...

Fledgey wrote...

Scripts can change, and things can be leaked on purpose to create a false expectation.

Oh, good lord.  Leaked on purpose?  Yeah, right.  The tin-foil hat is stong in you.  The script is almost exactly the same.  The only difference is they cut stuff.  Then sold it as DLC.  Hence Omega DLC is coming next because they cut that from the main game.

Oh god, 4chan.

TROLL ALERT!

[killnoob]

Golferguy758 wrote...

Goddammit. trolls ruined this thread. Seriously just going around and around in circles. If you want to believe that bw screwed up, fine. Go be miserable in the other 8000 threads.

See some of the regulars on the othrr forums

And if you want to believe the indoctrination theory is true, fine.

Get your brethen to stop spreading the disease like they are real.

[Sheparded]

Moshaaver wrote...

I'm glad that the trolling has been reduced to referencing the World Trade Center, maybe next they'll talk about Hitler.

Ive seen about Nien references to hitler so far

[Capeo]

lex0r11 wrote...

killnoob wrote...

So Harbringer failed to overtake his mind, if he chooses destroyer?

Then explain to me why does Shepard still sees the reapers getting destroyed, the normandy crushed into some random planet like all other endings,

If he's supposed to stop hallucinating as soon as Harbringer fails?

What's the point of seeing all that?

because it ends only when he wakes after the ruble. maybe harbinger thinks this is what he wants to see to take his mind off its *defensive* mode. tricking the mind into relaxation might help indoctrination. why not?

Relaxing his mind by killing the geth and EDI and stranding his friends on some random rock?  That's very soothing.

[njfluffy19]

Golferguy758 wrote...

Goddammit. trolls ruined this thread. Seriously just going around and around in circles. If you want to believe that bw screwed up, fine. Go be miserable in the other 8000 threads.

See some of the regulars on the othrr forums

Please. There's no sense in throwing arguments at us that have already been discussed and in some cases, disproven. Be respectful.

[Noob451]

Capeo is at least bringing some points in his arguments, if we don't want this thread getting completley derailed though, I suggest ignoring killnoob....seriously

Modifié par Noob451, 14 mars 2012 - 05:21 .

[Moshaaver]

killnoob wrote...

Golferguy758 wrote...

Goddammit. trolls ruined this thread. Seriously just going around and around in circles. If you want to believe that bw screwed up, fine. Go be miserable in the other 8000 threads.

See some of the regulars on the othrr forums

And if you want to believe the indoctrination theory is true, fine.

Get your brethen to stop spreading the disease like they are real.

Bro, you are on a thread that's only purpose is to discuss Indoctrination Theories.... or is this some horrible mistake and you don't actually know how to go to a different thread? Do you need me to send you instructions? Are you lost?

[Capeo]

njfluffy19 wrote...

Capeo wrote...

Fledgey wrote...

Scripts can change, and things can be leaked on purpose to create a false expectation.

Oh, good lord.  Leaked on purpose?  Yeah, right.  The tin-foil hat is stong in you.  The script is almost exactly the same.  The only difference is they cut stuff.  Then sold it as DLC.  Hence Omega DLC is coming next because they cut that from the main game.

Oh god, 4chan.

TROLL ALERT!

What? 

[Action Bawstard]

Moshaaver wrote...

I'm glad that the trolling has been reduced to referencing the World Trade Center, maybe next they'll talk about Hitler.

Hey, even he would be pissed about the endings

[JulienJaden]

killnoob wrote...

Fledgey wrote...
Scripts can change, and things can be leaked on purpose to create a false expectation.

And Bioware did WTC.

Seriously, listen to yourself.

Don't be ridiculous. The US government did that.


Anyway, alright, let's start at zero: If every ending is real, how can Shepard survive the station exploding around him, shields failing (thus, no atmosphere), and, if we assume that this scene takes place on Earth, re-entry into the planet's atmosphere?
If you can give me a satisfying answer based on what we see in the current endings that doesn't involve teleportation or space magic, I'm willing to accept it as a valid point.
Just don't go around trolling everyone when there's plotholes the size of Nevada.

[Erethrian]

killnoob wrote...

Erethrian wrote...


Again with that? O.o

"You're trolling/joking, right? Stop the rage and hate for now.

Shepard's already seen those options, not because he's been in the crucible
before, but because he's already seen what Saren and what TIM wanted
(Synergy/Control). Also if your choice was to keep the CB at the end of
ME2, the only option is to CONTROL the reapers (with low EMS). So,
actually, the indoctrination theory is the only thing that makes sense.

The reapers TRY to indoctrinate Shepard's mind, they try to keep him away from the DESTROY option, but it's still SHEPARD'S MIND, not HARBRINGER's mind, so it's his call. He is confused by the
indoctrination but he's the only one who can free himself from the
indoctrination by choosing the Destroy option.

Anyway, I think Shepard still survives whatever his choice is, but maybe (if a true
ending is coming) his actions once he awakes are based or influenced by
the choose he made.

That said, not trying to be offensive, it's just pissing me off all the hate you have..."

Dude, that's what happens in the current ending.

They're saying "the cyber kid is attempting to sway Shepard from choosing the destroy option"

But I'm saying there's no indication of the kid even "TRYING" to sway him

He just accept Shepard's answer like he respect his choice.

Right, the kid does, but you should think about it as if he's in his own mind. The kid says that "Destroy" is not the right choice. But he states that Synergy is the perfect one.

Try to look at it this way:

The reapers are in your mind, and in there they suggest you to try controlling them (maybe because you really think you can -low ems and kept the CB at ME2-, or maybe because even if your determination is to destroy them, they want you to "try" it, so you become indoctrinated), but you have the option to destroy them, too (if you destroyed the CB at ME2). Also, when they see the power you've got (High EMS) they see you as something even more dangerous and they try to offer you a more appealing option (Synergy), where noone's destroyed, and where the cycle is supposedly broken. They're in your mind and as I said you have a strong wil, but you've been aweakened (both physically and mentally) so they suggest you not to choose "Destroy". Even with the reapers suggesting you all those options (and being your mind a mess), they can't erase your self-determination from your mind, so you're able to choose "Destroy".

The question now is: What if when you keep the CB in ME2, you're able to actually control them? We'll see. That's what I think.

[Brahlis]

Bioware's probably reading this board all like

[lex0r11]

killnoob wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

killnoob wrote...

So Harbringer failed to overtake his mind, if he chooses destroyer?

Then explain to me why does Shepard still sees the reapers getting destroyed, the normandy crushed into some random planet like all other endings,

If he's supposed to stop hallucinating as soon as Harbringer fails?

What's the point of seeing all that?

because it ends only when he wakes after the ruble. maybe harbinger thinks this is what he wants to see to take his mind off it's *defensive* mode. tricking the mind into relaxation might help indoctrination. why not?

What on earth are you talking about?

Mass relays getting destroyed all geth wiped out are relaxations?

Huh??

who knows what bioware thinks what makes the mind susceptible to indoctrination. neither of us knows how a 'mind****' works best. or what would you do to make the mind weak? simply making it a happy ending in his head sounds to easy and could give it away.

[killnoob]

Kulthar Drax wrote...

This is my first time posting here, but after considering the indoctrination theory, it is the only one that makes any real sense. The endings as they stand contribute no closure or satisfactory conclusion to the trilogy or the mass effect universe in general. In fact, if nothing else I would like an ending which DOESN'T destroy all galactic civilization in the form of all Mass Relays being destroyed. Because otherwise, you may as well let the Reapers win. At least the next cycle might have a chance at destroying the Reapers without wrecking galactic civilization to boot. Perhaps one of the endings could be in the far future, with a couple of Yahg discovering Liara's time capsule containing information on defeating the Reapers. Again, another indication of the whole indoctrination and "let the reapers win" attitude. Although yes, you can argue that all the endings result in Mass Relay destructions, I think this is still a hallucination because not even the Reapers will want the relays destroyed.

Bioware want to continue making games in the Mass Effect universe and while you could just make them pre-reaper invasion, it does rather still limit you considerably for the future. This is just another reason why I think the real endings will be released eventually and that it was all a hallucination. Hell, when you go to the destroy option at the end, you're even shooting at a "power conduit", which can theoretically symbolize destroying the Reapers' power over you.

Until you see a cinematic mass relay destroyed and reapers start to fall from the sky and normandy crash into some random planet.

Shepard: err... wasn't I supposed to be hallucinating? I thought I made the right choice and broke free of Harbringer's control? Where did THAT come from?

[Descedent]

killnoob wrote...

Golferguy758 wrote...

Goddammit. trolls ruined this thread. Seriously just going around and around in circles. If you want to believe that bw screwed up, fine. Go be miserable in the other 8000 threads.

See some of the regulars on the othrr forums

And if you want to believe the indoctrination theory is true, fine.

Get your brethen to stop spreading the disease like they are real.

you can...

[jackncoke28]

jackncoke28 wrote...

Just wanted to comment about the argument on why would reapers give you the option to destroy them. The indoctrination argument stipulates that shepard never actually got to the citadel, the choices are in your head. I would argue that the choices aren't really between controling, synthesizing, or destroying. They are basically
1. Giving in to reaper idiology while maintaining some of who you are (control)
2. Completely giving in to reaper ideology (synthesis)
3. Not giving in, and continuing to fight. (Destroy)
And by reaper idiology I mean there idea about the need for order in the universe (put forth by the "catalyst") and the inevitability of the organic's destruction by the harbingers of that synthetic order, the catalyst uses this argument to creat a sense of how useless it will be to keep fighting, and using the image of the boy has the added effect of reminding Shepard that he won't be able to save every one if he does continue to fight, an attempt to break his will. The first 2 choices, IMO, are shepard giving in to the arguments the reapers have made in ME1,2,and most of 3, via indoctrinated Saren, Sovereign, Harbinger, and indoctrinated TIM.

The reason for the indoctrination I believe, is to break the resistance of the allied forces. Shepard represents their hope, their belief that they can win this fight. We learned from javik that the prothean reaper war lasted his entire life, and the major disadvantage was that they were a homogeneous empire. So even with that disadvantage the held out for at least a couple decades. This cycle has multiple races fighting in tandem, and it has the catalyst weapon. This cycle has the best chance of defeating them and they know it. Martyring Shepard does not help their cause, they need him broken.
Wow, I didn't intend to go this far lol, I guess that's what great stories do to someone

[killnoob]

lex0r11 wrote...

killnoob wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

killnoob wrote...

So Harbringer failed to overtake his mind, if he chooses destroyer?

Then explain to me why does Shepard still sees the reapers getting destroyed, the normandy crushed into some random planet like all other endings,

If he's supposed to stop hallucinating as soon as Harbringer fails?

What's the point of seeing all that?

because it ends only when he wakes after the ruble. maybe harbinger thinks this is what he wants to see to take his mind off it's *defensive* mode. tricking the mind into relaxation might help indoctrination. why not?

What on earth are you talking about?

Mass relays getting destroyed all geth wiped out are relaxations?

Huh??

who knows what bioware thinks what makes the mind susceptible to indoctrination. neither of us knows how a 'mind****' works best. or what would you do to make the mind weak? simply making it a happy ending in his head sounds to easy and could give it away.

There is no MINDBREAK

The endings are terrible writings.

They're not intended for you to think Shepard is being indoctrinated.

If they are, then Bioware has a megaton of explaining to do.

[byne]

killnoob wrote...

Moshaaver wrote...

I'm glad that the trolling has been reduced to referencing the World Trade Center, maybe next they'll talk about Hitler.

Sure.

If someone actually think they leak the script on purpose

AND  THEN

go through the pain of changing it to a worse ending

I can bring up hitler no problem.

I think the major difference between you adn people who believe the indoctrination/hallucination thing are that you think Bioware just really sucks enough at writing that they figured the ends were fine.

That may very well be true, but the indoctrination/hallucination theory is going off the assumption that based on the fact that the rest of the game doesnt suck nearly as much, Bioware didnt mean the current endings to be the true ones.

Your arguing with us on this point is not really going to be helpful in any way until someone from Bioware comes out and straight up says the theory is right or wrong.

Until then, you're just basically saying it cant be true because of Reason X, whereas we say Reason Y and Reason Z seem to indicate otherwise

There is no definitive proof either way.

[Vlta]

http://www.gamefront...ng-and-its-bad/

Guess what guys....It wasn't a hallucination...

[Noob451]

jackncoke28 wrote...

jackncoke28 wrote...

Just wanted to comment about the argument on why would reapers give you the option to destroy them. The indoctrination argument stipulates that shepard never actually got to the citadel, the choices are in your head. I would argue that the choices aren't really between controling, synthesizing, or destroying. They are basically
1. Giving in to reaper idiology while maintaining some of who you are (control)
2. Completely giving in to reaper ideology (synthesis)
3. Not giving in, and continuing to fight. (Destroy)
And by reaper idiology I mean there idea about the need for order in the universe (put forth by the "catalyst") and the inevitability of the organic's destruction by the harbingers of that synthetic order, the catalyst uses this argument to creat a sense of how useless it will be to keep fighting, and using the image of the boy has the added effect of reminding Shepard that he won't be able to save every one if he does continue to fight, an attempt to break his will. The first 2 choices, IMO, are shepard giving in to the arguments the reapers have made in ME1,2,and most of 3, via indoctrinated Saren, Sovereign, Harbinger, and indoctrinated TIM.

The reason for the indoctrination I believe, is to break the resistance of the allied forces. Shepard represents their hope, their belief that they can win this fight. We learned from javik that the prothean reaper war lasted his entire life, and the major disadvantage was that they were a homogeneous empire. So even with that disadvantage the held out for at least a couple decades. This cycle has multiple races fighting in tandem, and it has the catalyst weapon. This cycle has the best chance of defeating them and they know it. Martyring Shepard does not help their cause, they need him broken.
Wow, I didn't intend to go this far lol, I guess that's what great stories do to someone

exactly, they break shepard, they break the forces

[Lemondish]

Capeo wrote...

No.  Read the friggin script.  It's not what the catalyst says it's what BW says.  It states if the player had a perfect game then Synergy the best ending will be open.

I certainly did not have a perfect game, yet Synergy was still offered to me.