57139 réponses à ce sujet

[cobnut]

Capeo wrote...

Fledgey wrote...

Just stop responding to killnoob, he's just getting people riled up on purpose. There's no reason to respond whatsoever.

Why, because he's making sense?  There's nothing to this indoctrination theory.

He's not making sense at all. Nobody has to believe in the indoctrination theory, but he doesn't get any answer and desperately tries to convince everybody that the theory is wrong. It's just annoying.

[Noob451]

Vlta wrote...

http://www.gamefront...ng-and-its-bad/

Guess what guys....It wasn't a hallucination...

already discussed a while back

[Jaxitty]

Sheparded wrote...

Jaxitty wrote...

Has anyone considered, assuming you believe the Indoctrination Theory, (which I do) that even with all the evidence that your average joe couldn't just shake off indoctrination....Shep is 3/4 synthetic! That he may be resistant to a majority of the nastier side effects of it but still succumb to parts of it because s/he's still partly organic.

I will add though, that I don't know whether synthetics can even BE indoctrinated and if they can how it works...someone with more time or who has already memorized the codex's from the three games can fill in those gaps

Synthetics are much easier to indoctrinate (take the geth for example), and that could work towards our theory for shepard being indoctrinated.

But were the geth indoctrinated? I thought they had simply chose to let the Old Machines "give them their future" instead of striving for it themselves. Or at least Legion says something along thise since he and his breathren decided they wanted to make their own future. (I'm totally paraphrasing here since i'm too lazy atm to go find the exact quote)

[JulienJaden]

killnoob wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

killnoob wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

killnoob wrote...

So Harbringer failed to overtake his mind, if he chooses destroyer?

Then explain to me why does Shepard still sees the reapers getting destroyed, the normandy crushed into some random planet like all other endings,

If he's supposed to stop hallucinating as soon as Harbringer fails?

What's the point of seeing all that?

because it ends only when he wakes after the ruble. maybe harbinger thinks this is what he wants to see to take his mind off it's *defensive* mode. tricking the mind into relaxation might help indoctrination. why not?

What on earth are you talking about?

Mass relays getting destroyed all geth wiped out are relaxations?

Huh??

who knows what bioware thinks what makes the mind susceptible to indoctrination. neither of us knows how a 'mind****' works best. or what would you do to make the mind weak? simply making it a happy ending in his head sounds to easy and could give it away.

There is no MINDBREAK

The endings are terrible writings.

They're not intended for you to think Shepard is being indoctrinated.

If they are, then Bioware has a megaton of explaining to do.

Exactly.

[Moshaaver]

Vlta wrote...

http://www.gamefront...ng-and-its-bad/

Guess what guys....It wasn't a hallucination...

Oh man, stop the thread, this guy found something that was discussed on like page 200. STOP THE THREAD.

This already came up, please go back and do a little research. 

[Sheparded]

http://a6.sphotos.ak...330212186_n.jpg

Bioware's face right now.

[lodgik]

HOLY S***T !!!



The 1m1 on the metalic pole it's INVERTED just like seing it in a mirror, i don't know if it's something but contless movie and books used this to tell you're not in the reality.

and another thing, look closely at


and



From what i take you're basically at the connection point between the citadel and the crucible, right. And well you can't see any type of protection from the void because it's the connection point, implying that commander sherpard is standing in a room completely exposed to the void of space. secondo, the beam of blue light connecting the citadel and the crucible, I assume must pass throught the lenght of each other in a horizontal fashion, so unless the beam curves at some point it emplie that shepard is standing on A WALL on the citadel opposite to the crucible to see the beam perpendiculary and all that without the help of functionning gravity boot since is armor is ripped to pieces O.O

Modifié par lodgik, 14 mars 2012 - 05:27 .

[Deitylink]

killnoob wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

killnoob wrote...

So Harbringer failed to overtake his mind, if he chooses destroyer?

Then explain to me why does Shepard still sees the reapers getting destroyed, the normandy crushed into some random planet like all other endings,

If he's supposed to stop hallucinating as soon as Harbringer fails?

What's the point of seeing all that?

because it ends only when he wakes after the ruble. maybe harbinger thinks this is what he wants to see to take his mind off it's *defensive* mode. tricking the mind into relaxation might help indoctrination. why not?

What on earth are you talking about?

Mass relays getting destroyed all geth wiped out are relaxations?

Huh??

Shepherd imagines the Mass Relays explode because that's what the child says will happen. He also doesn't imagine EDI leave the ship because the child says all synthetics will die.

It seems to me like you havent read ANYTHING on the board and simply just arguing out of anger that you don't understand the ending. And to that I say, you have lost, game over for you man.

[killnoob]

jackncoke28 wrote...

jackncoke28 wrote...

Just wanted to comment about the argument on why would reapers give you the option to destroy them. The indoctrination argument stipulates that shepard never actually got to the citadel, the choices are in your head. I would argue that the choices aren't really between controling, synthesizing, or destroying. They are basically
1. Giving in to reaper idiology while maintaining some of who you are (control)
2. Completely giving in to reaper ideology (synthesis)
3. Not giving in, and continuing to fight. (Destroy)
And by reaper idiology I mean there idea about the need for order in the universe (put forth by the "catalyst") and the inevitability of the organic's destruction by the harbingers of that synthetic order, the catalyst uses this argument to creat a sense of how useless it will be to keep fighting, and using the image of the boy has the added effect of reminding Shepard that he won't be able to save every one if he does continue to fight, an attempt to break his will. The first 2 choices, IMO, are shepard giving in to the arguments the reapers have made in ME1,2,and most of 3, via indoctrinated Saren, Sovereign, Harbinger, and indoctrinated TIM.

The reason for the indoctrination I believe, is to break the resistance of the allied forces. Shepard represents their hope, their belief that they can win this fight. We learned from javik that the prothean reaper war lasted his entire life, and the major disadvantage was that they were a homogeneous empire. So even with that disadvantage the held out for at least a couple decades. This cycle has multiple races fighting in tandem, and it has the catalyst weapon. This cycle has the best chance of defeating them and they know it. Martyring Shepard does not help their cause, they need him broken.
Wow, I didn't intend to go this far lol, I guess that's what great stories do to someone

This is good story, yes.

If Shepard wakes up right after the indoctrination attempt, I will be with you guys backing this theory 100%.

But that is not the case.

Instead, after you choose the destroy option, we see a series of cinematic that's similar to other endings.

How do you explain that?

[njfluffy19]

Vlta wrote...

http://www.gamefront...ng-and-its-bad/

Guess what guys....It wasn't a hallucination...

Lawl. People need only go back a page or two to find this was already discussed.

*Kills her cat in anger* <_<

[Moshaaver]

njfluffy19 wrote...

Vlta wrote...

http://www.gamefront...ng-and-its-bad/

Guess what guys....It wasn't a hallucination...

Lawl. People need only go back a page or two to find this was already discussed.

*Kills her cat in anger* <_<

Nah, I already covered that, so please do not kill your Kitty Cat.

[lex0r11]

killnoob wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

killnoob wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

killnoob wrote...

So Harbringer failed to overtake his mind, if he chooses destroyer?

Then explain to me why does Shepard still sees the reapers getting destroyed, the normandy crushed into some random planet like all other endings,

If he's supposed to stop hallucinating as soon as Harbringer fails?

What's the point of seeing all that?

because it ends only when he wakes after the ruble. maybe harbinger thinks this is what he wants to see to take his mind off it's *defensive* mode. tricking the mind into relaxation might help indoctrination. why not?

What on earth are you talking about?

Mass relays getting destroyed all geth wiped out are relaxations?

Huh??

who knows what bioware thinks what makes the mind susceptible to indoctrination. neither of us knows how a 'mind****' works best. or what would you do to make the mind weak? simply making it a happy ending in his head sounds to easy and could give it away.

There is no MINDBREAK

The endings are terrible writings.

They're not intended for you to think Shepard is being indoctrinated.

If they are, then Bioware has a megaton of explaining to do.

you know we are discussing here, right? until bioware denies or confirms or some obvious datamining happens, there will be no proof. you seem like you can proof your point, but i don't see it.

Modifié par lex0r11, 14 mars 2012 - 05:30 .

[777crowe777]

I agree with Killnoob.... it doesnt make any sense. Shepard should have just died (destroy option). At least then there wouldnt be loose ends.


P.S. Absolute miracle he lives in the first place (smoked by a reaper laser + shot in the gut + on citadel when it explodes = taking a breath in the rubble or the Citadel)

[Noob451]

lodgik wrote...

HOLY S***T !!!



The 1m1 on the metalic pole it's INVERTED just like seing it in a mirror, i don't know if it's something but contless movie and books used this to tell you're not in the reality.

and another thing, look closely at


and



From what i take you're basically at the connection point between the citadel and the crucible, right. And well you can't see any type of protection from the void because it's the connection point, implying that commander sherpard is standing in a room completely exposed to the void of space. secondo, the beam of blue light connecting the citadel and the crucible, I assume must pass throught the lenght of each other in a horizontal fashion, so unless the beam curves at some point it emplie that shepard is standing on A WALL on the citadel opposite to the crucible to see the beam perpendiculary and all that without the help of functionning gravity boot since is armor is ripped to pieces O.O

isn't this in the OP?

[Sajuro]

Capeo wrote...

Lemondish wrote...

Capeo wrote...

Lemondish wrote...

Capeo wrote...

kent80082006 wrote...

Recap of star child on destroy option

You can destroy all reapers if you like
Can you imagine your life without synthetics?
Even you are partly synthetics
Including the geth

It's obvious that the star child doesn't want you to choose the destroy option
However Shpeherd will only wake up if you choose the destroy option
So if you can't explain why the star child so subtly try to interfere with Shepher's choice with those unnecessary details you have to admit there's something more to the ending

That's because BW themselves see this as the worst outcome.  Read the script.  The whole point of the game is to bring synthetics and organics together.  BW uses the word "perfect" in regards to the Synergy ending.

If the whole point of the game is to bring synthetics and organics together, why do you believe the kid when he says there must be a new solution or 'synthetics will kill all organics'. There's no evidence to suggest any synthetics will rise up and kill organics as it has yet to happen. The geth are the only example, and we learned through the story that they were simply defending themselves.

Who says you do believe him?  You can still choose whatever you want.  I'm just telling you BW labels the Synergy ending as "perfect" and "saving the galaxy".  It ends all chance of wars and no synthetic race has to die.  Which is nice for the Geth considering they offer to fight the Reapers if you side with them.

If by Bioware labelling the Syngergy ending as perfect, you mean the Catalyst does. Keep in mind that Synthesis is not only exactly what Saren was going on about, it is also eerily familiar to the concept of ascencion that Harbinger details.

I feel you're making a mistake by assuming that Bioware is giving the message without considering the messenger.

No.  Read the friggin script.  It's not what the catalyst says it's what BW says.  It states if the player had a perfect game then Synergy the best ending will be open.

There is no "Synergy" there is only Synthesis, Destroy, and Control
Ever thought that the "Synergy" from the leaked script was the old ending which was supposedly about Dark Energy, like the Reapers and Organics working together to solve the problem of Dark Energy, Hence: "Synergy"
And before you say it is semantics, Synergy and Synthesis are very different things.

[orionshield]

in the beginning when you first see the human husk, the little boy is seen running into the building where shortly after you kill the climbing husk, shepard climbs down the ladder, dodges the reaper laser, enters the building, and sees the kid in the air vent, and anderson never seen him all that time,

later the boy gets into the blue alliance kodiak and no body helps him up, I thought that was really odd, didn't they see a poor boy trying to climb up into a safe transport, right away the boy stares right at shepard [and why and how does he notice him so quicky and how come theres an empasis on that],,,,later shepard has dreams of the boy running away and why is this in his dream?............lastly the last ten minutes of the game the AI appears to shepard after he passes out....and GUESS WHAT!!! the AI is the kid with the same voice as the kid! ..........What a coincidence!..........THEN YOU HAVE THREE CHOICES, CHOICES YOU GET EVEN IF YOU DON'T DO ALL THE SIDE QUEST AND MAKE ALL THE IMPORTANT DECISIONS FANS INVESTED IN THE LAST 5 YEARS, AND YOU STILL END UP WITH THE SAME ENDING REGARDLESS! .........BIOWARE THAT IS WHY FANS ARE SOOOOOO UPSET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Noob451]

777crowe777 wrote...

I agree with Killnoob.... it doesnt make any sense. Shepard should have just died (destroy option). At least then there wouldnt be loose ends.


P.S. Absolute miracle he lives in the first place (smoked by a reaper laser + shot in the gut + on citadel when it explodes = taking a breath in the rubble or the Citadel)

replay it, he wasn't hit, laser hit in front of him and screen flashed to white, the ones you were dodging were much closer.

[Action Bawstard]

777crowe777 wrote...

I agree with Killnoob.... it doesnt make any sense. Shepard should have just died (destroy option). At least then there wouldnt be loose ends.


P.S. Absolute miracle he lives in the first place (smoked by a reaper laser + shot in the gut + on citadel when it explodes = taking a breath in the rubble or the Citadel)

Inowright?
I took a lazer to the earlier in the game and THEY MADE ME START OVER 8/

[jackncoke28]

Had another thought. The destroy option isn't an option given to you by the catalyst, but instead it is what remains of your free will, saving Anderson from getting killed by TIM is another sign of this. Why else would saving Anderson allow you to see the breath ending with only 4000 ems instead of 5000. Anderson represents your will to fight, and him surviving longer ups your chances of breaking indoctrination sooner, needing 1000 less ems to survive destroy.

[Sajuro]

Noob451 wrote...

lodgik wrote...

HOLY S***T !!!



The 1m1 on the metalic pole it's INVERTED just like seing it in a mirror, i don't know if it's something but contless movie and books used this to tell you're not in the reality.

and another thing, look closely at


and



From what i take you're basically at the connection point between the citadel and the crucible, right. And well you can't see any type of protection from the void because it's the connection point, implying that commander sherpard is standing in a room completely exposed to the void of space. secondo, the beam of blue light connecting the citadel and the crucible, I assume must pass throught the lenght of each other in a horizontal fashion, so unless the beam curves at some point it emplie that shepard is standing on A WALL on the citadel opposite to the crucible to see the beam perpendiculary and all that without the help of functionning gravity boot since is armor is ripped to pieces O.O

isn't this in the OP?

Not with pics and not with the point about the wall.

[Fiannawolf]

Guess what theres reaper icons on invisable systems where Omega and Illos are supposed to be

[lex0r11]

and i think we should keep this thread going, despite all this so people can at least see what the OP has compiled.

[Jaxitty]

Fiannawolf wrote...

Guess what theres reaper icons on invisable systems where Omega and Illos are supposed to be

I notticed trhat! And it only really appears the closer you get to the end of the game. You can't actually GO to those systems though.

[killnoob]

Deitylink wrote...

killnoob wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

killnoob wrote...

So Harbringer failed to overtake his mind, if he chooses destroyer?

Then explain to me why does Shepard still sees the reapers getting destroyed, the normandy crushed into some random planet like all other endings,

If he's supposed to stop hallucinating as soon as Harbringer fails?

What's the point of seeing all that?

because it ends only when he wakes after the ruble. maybe harbinger thinks this is what he wants to see to take his mind off it's *defensive* mode. tricking the mind into relaxation might help indoctrination. why not?

What on earth are you talking about?

Mass relays getting destroyed all geth wiped out are relaxations?

Huh??

Shepherd imagines the Mass Relays explode because that's what the child says will happen. He also doesn't imagine EDI leave the ship because the child says all synthetics will die.

It seems to me like you havent read ANYTHING on the board and simply just arguing out of anger that you don't understand the ending. And to that I say, you have lost, game over for you man.

It seems to me you still don't get it.

If the destroy option is supposed to be Shepard's resolve to break free from indoctrination,

then you're basically saying this:

Harbringer try to control Shepard by planting images in his head

Shepard breaks free, but instead of waking up he takes a few moments to imagine



now take a moment to watch this

Is there ANY indication that Shepard is imagining things?

We see the crucible turn red.

We see the cinematics.

Are you seriously gonna grasp one straw and claims that he imagined everything the child said would happen?

[Elendstourist]

Maybe we should only post new arguments and new twitter posts.