57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Noob451]

Mr.Burke wrote...

Why indoctrinate him when you can just use the beam of death?

harbinger has wanted Shepard since ME2  he is contstantly telling the collecters to take him alive.

[crimsontotem]

woah i am really sick and tired of these newcomers who have just beaten the ending who are saying "why can't u accept it's a crappy writing for the ending?" read the op people read it....

[njfluffy19]

I can't stand reading this anymore. Going to lurk on Byne's post.

Enjoyed it while it lasted, guys.

[Lemondish]

Mr.Burke wrote...

Why indoctrinate him when you can just use the beam of death?

Shepard is more than a human. She's a legend. Killing her would likely only create the most effective martyr ever. Control, however...

[koucha]

lodgik wrote...

HOLY S***T !!!



The 1m1 on the metalic pole it's INVERTED just like seing it in a mirror, i don't know if it's something but contless movie and books used this to tell you're not in the reality.

I just want to point this out that inverted text is common in games, especially with a palindrome like 1m1, although with some fonts, it can't be perfectly inverted, like some can (808, etc.)  It occurs when a game asset's geometry and texture are mirrored for environment building. :|

[Evil_medved]

Also if this is all in Sheps mind, it means that blowing up relays and Normandy crash have some symbolic meaning, not just random hallucinations.

[lex0r11]

AntariuzX wrote...

Can somebody clarify one thing for me, that makes me question indoctrination theory. If it is all a dream indeed, Shepard is indoctrinated, then why even give him the option to destroy reapers? If reapers got into his mind, then they won, the end. Reapers are just giving him option to kill themselves?

i bevlieve, while indoctrination is a move to take over you mind, all that is happening and all you can see is still part of your head. so i suggest that until the "taking control" thing is 100% complete, things out of sheps own mind will be taking into account.

maybe the three choices aren't actually presented by the reapers and it is infact just the weapon designed as it is and a button would suffice. it is only the reapers coming in in the last second to try save their asses. just pretending this is all their doing.

Modifié par lex0r11, 14 mars 2012 - 05:43 .

[Lemondish]

killnoob wrote...

AntariuzX wrote...

Can somebody clarify one thing for me, that makes me question indoctrination theory. If it is all a dream indeed, Shepard is indoctrinated, then why even give him the option to destroy reapers? If reapers got into his mind, then they won, the end. Reapers are just giving him option to kill themselves?

Supposedly, they're saying that

Everything is played out in his head.

The reapers are TRYING to indoctrinate him, with a super long build up (with anderson, with TIM, and everything else) in between before getting to the point.

IF you choose destroy,

You defeat the reapers control and wake up.

But that's not before you hallucinate some more about reapers and mass relay getting blown up.

Waking up is simply an expectation. The proper expression might be to "begin breaking free from control". What happens next, whether its waking up or not, isn't known yet. 

[killnoob]

Mr.Burke wrote...

Why indoctrinate him when you can just use the beam of death?

Exactly.

Killing him would be MUCH easier consider how he's unconscious.

[killnoob]

Lemondish wrote...

killnoob wrote...

AntariuzX wrote...

Can somebody clarify one thing for me, that makes me question indoctrination theory. If it is all a dream indeed, Shepard is indoctrinated, then why even give him the option to destroy reapers? If reapers got into his mind, then they won, the end. Reapers are just giving him option to kill themselves?

Supposedly, they're saying that

Everything is played out in his head.

The reapers are TRYING to indoctrinate him, with a super long build up (with anderson, with TIM, and everything else) in between before getting to the point.

IF you choose destroy,

You defeat the reapers control and wake up.

But that's not before you hallucinate some more about reapers and mass relay getting blown up.

Waking up is simply an expectation. The proper expression might be to "begin breaking free from control". What happens next, whether its waking up or not, isn't known yet. 

I believe it is.



In the end he wakes up.

After imagine quite a lot of things blowing up.

Are you saying he begin break free of control

BY  assuming what the god child says is true?

That's a horrible way to start.

Modifié par killnoob, 14 mars 2012 - 05:45 .

[Noob451]

killnoob wrote...

Mr.Burke wrote...

Why indoctrinate him when you can just use the beam of death?

Exactly.

Killing him would be MUCH easier consider how he's unconscious.

and will create a martyr, possibly causing the forces to rally and finish the fight "to honor shepard"

[orionshield]

ALSO IN THE BEGINNING THE LITTLE BOY WITH THE ALLIANCE FIGHTER IN HIS HAND HAS NO SHADOW BUT WHEN THE SCENE CUTS TO SHEPARD YOU IMMEDIATELY SEE SHEPARDS HAND MAKE SHADOW OVER HIS FACE,,,.......THE LITTLE BOY ISN'T REAL AND THE AI AS WELL, WHEN TIM USED INDOCTRINATION ON SHEPARD, LATER SHEPARD WAS DREAMING THE LAST TEN MINIUTES OF THE GAME, HE ACTUALLY PASSED OUT NEXT TO ANDERSON AND WHEN HE HAD A LOSS OF BLOOD, ONE PASSES OUT RIGHT AWAY,,,,THE ENDING IS STILL NOT COMPLETE!

[jackncoke28]

For all we know stargazer scene could be taking place thousands of years in the future with the story having been passed down, or liara's "time capsule" being discovered. Considering Buzz Aldrin is doing the voice of the old man, I see it as more of a nod to space travel and human ingenuity, not an integral piece of Shepard's story. Javik and the protheans are proof of how people can get things wrong about a species, let alone 1 man, that lived thousands of years in the past.

[Evil_medved]

killnoob wrote...

Mr.Burke wrote...

Why indoctrinate him when you can just use the beam of death?

Exactly.

Killing him would be MUCH easier consider how he's unconscious.

He was unconscious once, for DAYS during Arrival.

Did they killed him?

Nope.

[lex0r11]

killnoob wrote...

Mr.Burke wrote...

Why indoctrinate him when you can just use the beam of death?

Exactly.

Killing him would be MUCH easier consider how he's unconscious.

why does harbinger in almost every encounter insist on keeping shepard alive? maybe they need him alive for something, not that liquefying thing from the second game.

[Lemondish]

koucha wrote...

lodgik wrote...

HOLY S***T !!!



The 1m1 on the metalic pole it's INVERTED just like seing it in a mirror, i don't know if it's something but contless movie and books used this to tell you're not in the reality.

I just want to point this out that inverted text is common in games, especially with a palindrome like 1m1, although with some fonts, it can't be perfectly inverted, like some can (808, etc.)  It occurs when a game asset's geometry and texture are mirrored for environment building. :|

Could support be found either way if a similar mirroring of text is found in an environment? Or would this be too coincidental?

[Mr.Burke]

Is it possible that harbinger thinks that the reapers could actually loose the fight and that indoctrination of shepard would allow him to use shepard so that all hope is gone? idk

[Capeo]

Gamingtrek12025 wrote...

People really should read the first post. Answers a lot of the questions. Also, if you don't agree with the theory than fine, but give us an actual reason. I saw this earlier in the posts and it fits here, don't just give an answer that is "Bioware is teh stupids".

\\

Uh, reasons?  The game tells you you beat the Reapers.  The epilogue tells you you beat the Reapers.  The script is exactly the same endings, makes no mention of indoctrination except in regards to TIM, and it outright states that Synergy is the best outcome.  Both Control and Destroy unlock earlier than Synergy.  The fact that Shepard can only live in the Destroy ending is meaningless as it is the ONLY ending that allows for it.  Control traps him.  Synergy consumes him.  Destroy is the only one that allows for him to live.  It has no more meaning than that.

And I also love how people are trying to tear every little bit of meaning from cutscenes that BW couldn't even be bothered to change for the different endings other than the color of the space magic.

[Lemondish]

killnoob wrote...

Lemondish wrote...

killnoob wrote...

AntariuzX wrote...

Can somebody clarify one thing for me, that makes me question indoctrination theory. If it is all a dream indeed, Shepard is indoctrinated, then why even give him the option to destroy reapers? If reapers got into his mind, then they won, the end. Reapers are just giving him option to kill themselves?

Supposedly, they're saying that

Everything is played out in his head.

The reapers are TRYING to indoctrinate him, with a super long build up (with anderson, with TIM, and everything else) in between before getting to the point.

IF you choose destroy,

You defeat the reapers control and wake up.

But that's not before you hallucinate some more about reapers and mass relay getting blown up.

Waking up is simply an expectation. The proper expression might be to "begin breaking free from control". What happens next, whether its waking up or not, isn't known yet. 

I believe it is.



In the end he wakes up.

After imagine quite a lot of things blowing up.

Are you saying he begin break free of control

BY  assuming what the god child says is true?

That's a horrible way to start.

I see Shepard take a breath, confirming life, not conciousness.

Furthermore, if you as a player assumes that what the kid says is true, why would you choose to destroy all synthetics, dooming the universe to repeat the chaos? You wouldn't choose this option if you believed the kid.

Now...if you questioned the kid, and decided to stick to your resolve and choose the option that SYMBOLICALLY destroys the reapers...then indoctrination attempt would explain why thsi is the only ending where Shepard appears to be alive...in concrete rubble.

Modifié par Lemondish, 14 mars 2012 - 05:48 .

[byne]

lex0r11 wrote...

killnoob wrote...

Mr.Burke wrote...

Why indoctrinate him when you can just use the beam of death?

Exactly.

Killing him would be MUCH easier consider how he's unconscious.

why does harbinger in almost every encounter insist on keeping shepard alive? maybe they need him alive for something, not that liquefying thing from the second game.

To quote from the indoctrination codex entry:

"Should a Reaper subvert a well-placed political or military leader, the resulting chaos can bring down nations."

Gee, I wonder why they want Shepard....

[killnoob]

Evil_medved wrote...

killnoob wrote...

Mr.Burke wrote...

Why indoctrinate him when you can just use the beam of death?

Exactly.

Killing him would be MUCH easier consider how he's unconscious.

He was unconscious once, for DAYS during Arrival.

Did they killed him?

Nope.

Oh right.

So when Harbringer is shooting lasers to stop everyone from getting to the beam, he wasn't trying to kill anyone, he's trying to indoctrinate them using the laser.

C'mon = =

[Fledgey]

orionshield wrote...

ALSO IN THE BEGINNING THE LITTLE BOY WITH THE ALLIANCE FIGHTER IN HIS HAND HAS NO SHADOW BUT WHEN THE SCENE CUTS TO SHEPARD YOU IMMEDIATELY SEE SHEPARDS HAND MAKE SHADOW OVER HIS FACE,,,.......THE LITTLE BOY ISN'T REAL AND THE AI AS WELL, WHEN TIM USED INDOCTRINATION ON SHEPARD, LATER SHEPARD WAS DREAMING THE LAST TEN MINIUTES OF THE GAME, HE ACTUALLY PASSED OUT NEXT TO ANDERSON AND WHEN HE HAD A LOSS OF BLOOD, ONE PASSES OUT RIGHT AWAY,,,,THE ENDING IS STILL NOT COMPLETE!

I'd really love to read this, but I can't quite make it out. It hurts my eyes.

[PyroByte]

AntariuzX wrote...

Can somebody clarify one thing for me, that makes me question indoctrination theory. If it is all a dream indeed, Shepard is indoctrinated, then why even give him the option to destroy reapers? If reapers got into his mind, then they won, the end. Reapers are just giving him option to kill themselves?

None of the options the kid gives are reality they are just playing out
in shepards head and the destroy option being an allegory for his will
to continue fighting the reapers (and resisting indoctrination). Hence this is the only ending you see
shepard breathing again.

[Bouncer Mark]

I must say at the outset that the theory below extrapolates from what others before me have contributed and it intends to further explain the ending. Many thanks to them for inspiring me.
 
The most important thing for player to realise is that no matter what choice you made throughout the Mass Effect series, the ideology Shepard always vows to destroy the reapers. This is the premise of my theory.
 
Seems like the indoctrination begins after the reaper (harbinger) beams hit Shepard.
(a lot of proof and players figure this out already to put this beyond dispute)
 
Note that the Illusive man pointed a gun at Anderson, renegade prompt appears. If you don’t shoot the Illusive man, the gun points at you and renegade prompt appears again. At that point, it is game over if you don’t make that choice.
 
Some people complained about being forced to make that option. In my opinion this further proves that anything that happens after the beam hits is the ‘process’ of indoctrination.
 
(p.s. I used the words process because player is still given a choice and indoctrination completes if you choose two of the three options, further below)
 
Going back to the illusive man shooting incident, it is mandatorily renegade because this is what shepard always wanted to destroy the reapers and even though he is under the influence of the reaper, he knows what he needs to do to stop the reapers and it is him underneath mandating the player to pick the renegade option or it is over.
 
After Shepard really lost his consciousness and appears to be at the top of the citadel (or wherever that is), the player takes over completely and subject to the full effect of the Reaper via the presence of the child (indoctrination).
 
The destroy option is painted in red (some doubt because the reapers want to manipulate you into not choosing that) but this is indeed what they (the reapers) think, they think continuing the cycle of extinction is better and thus destroying them actually is bad; and of course this is no doubt what the Admiral Anderson will do as presented as a vision by the child (same for Illusive Man for the control).
 
The indoctrination is complete (if the player choose control or synthesis option), both could be from shepard’s point of view in his idealistic aim to destroy the reapers BAD ending, here is why:
 
·        illusive man proves that control is meaningless (you simply cannot control the reapers)
·        the child said synthetics will always destroy the organics, this is wrong as the Geth incident proves it (if the best outcome occurs, Quarian and Geth make peace with each other and co-exist)
 
Choosing either of the options of course can be a ‘good’ thing if the player realises actually ending the cycle does not help any of the organics (buying into the reapers mindset = indoctrination).
 
On the other hand, the player can conform to Shepard’s ideology and choose to destroy the reapers, which also means that it is to disagree with the reapers ideal and the indoctrination ends.
 
Bioware thus DID give player the choice that matters.

[AxelBat]

Okay, I was already on board with this theory, but now that I've seen those eyes I am 100% convinced.

I have to say, even if this ends up not being true (which I mean c'mon...) I will forever believe that this is what happened, and then come up with a final ending in my head.