57139 réponses à ce sujet

[kent80082006]

killnoob wrote...

Kulthar Drax wrote...

This is my first time posting here, but after considering the indoctrination theory, it is the only one that makes any real sense. The endings as they stand contribute no closure or satisfactory conclusion to the trilogy or the mass effect universe in general. In fact, if nothing else I would like an ending which DOESN'T destroy all galactic civilization in the form of all Mass Relays being destroyed. Because otherwise, you may as well let the Reapers win. At least the next cycle might have a chance at destroying the Reapers without wrecking galactic civilization to boot. Perhaps one of the endings could be in the far future, with a couple of Yahg discovering Liara's time capsule containing information on defeating the Reapers. Again, another indication of the whole indoctrination and "let the reapers win" attitude. Although yes, you can argue that all the endings result in Mass Relay destructions, I think this is still a hallucination because not even the Reapers will want the relays destroyed.

Bioware want to continue making games in the Mass Effect universe and while you could just make them pre-reaper invasion, it does rather still limit you considerably for the future. This is just another reason why I think the real endings will be released eventually and that it was all a hallucination. Hell, when you go to the destroy option at the end, you're even shooting at a "power conduit", which can theoretically symbolize destroying the Reapers' power over you.

Until you see a cinematic mass relay destroyed and reapers start to fall from the sky and normandy crash into some random planet.

Shepard: err... wasn't I supposed to be hallucinating? I thought I made the right choice and broke free of Harbringer's control? Where did THAT come from?

It has been established that Shepherd broke free when he woke up. The wake up scene is placed AFTER the mass relays and normandy crashing scene. Counter argument and constructive discussion is healthy, but it's obvious that you didn't even bother reading the OP, so you can take with you your sarcasm and hatred and get the f*** out of this thread

[killnoob]

byne wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

killnoob wrote...

Mr.Burke wrote...

Why indoctrinate him when you can just use the beam of death?

Exactly.

Killing him would be MUCH easier consider how he's unconscious.

why does harbinger in almost every encounter insist on keeping shepard alive? maybe they need him alive for something, not that liquefying thing from the second game.

To quote from the indoctrination codex entry:

"Should a Reaper subvert a well-placed political or military leader, the resulting chaos can bring down nations."

Gee, I wonder why they want Shepard....

Right, and spending three games trying to do that wasn't enough.
They have to keep trying until the very end, where Shepard actually has a chance to destroy every reapers in existence.

but because they're dumb machines they' cant reason:

Oh let's just try one more time before he blows us up if that doesn't work we'll kill him.
After he blows us up.

[Noob451]

killnoob wrote...

Evil_medved wrote...

killnoob wrote...

Mr.Burke wrote...

Why indoctrinate him when you can just use the beam of death?

Exactly.

Killing him would be MUCH easier consider how he's unconscious.

He was unconscious once, for DAYS during Arrival.

Did they killed him?

Nope.

Oh right.

So when Harbringer is shooting lasers to stop everyone from getting to the beam, he wasn't trying to kill anyone, he's trying to indoctrinate them using the laser.

C'mon = =

we're talking about shepard, don't bring more elements into this that don't belong.

[Segameister]

I could live with the theory, but turning the ending of a fantastic trilogy into a dream sequence seems odd to say the least, even odder than what they did to to the series finally. It's too much of a stretch.

[SomeBug]

Noob451 wrote...

Mr.Burke wrote...

Why indoctrinate him when you can just use the beam of death?

harbinger has wanted Shepard since ME2  he is contstantly telling the collecters to take him alive.

That was before the Collector base was destroyed/captured.

They wanted him alive to be part of the human Reaper.

Since the end of ME2, there is no longer that need.

The indoctrination theory is bull. Just accept it.

[BlackDragonBane]

This sums up what has happened to this poor thread quite nicely.

[Elendstourist]

Just dont respond to killnoob and the problem solves itself.


Btw: Any new twitter updates?

[FrostByte-GER]

orionshield wrote...

ALSO IN THE BEGINNING THE LITTLE BOY WITH THE ALLIANCE FIGHTER IN HIS HAND HAS NO SHADOW BUT WHEN THE SCENE CUTS TO SHEPARD YOU IMMEDIATELY SEE SHEPARDS HAND MAKE SHADOW OVER HIS FACE,,,.......THE LITTLE BOY ISN'T REAL AND THE AI AS WELL, WHEN TIM USED INDOCTRINATION ON SHEPARD, LATER SHEPARD WAS DREAMING THE LAST TEN MINIUTES OF THE GAME, HE ACTUALLY PASSED OUT NEXT TO ANDERSON AND WHEN HE HAD A LOSS OF BLOOD, ONE PASSES OUT RIGHT AWAY,,,,THE ENDING IS STILL NOT COMPLETE!

He has a Shadow....

[Capeo]

Lemondish wrote...

Capeo wrote...

Oh, please, you don't "understand the ending".  You're making crap up that doesn't fit the evidence because you can't face the simple fact that BW wrote crappy endings.

Just as you can't face the evidence that there may be more to this. Confirmation bias, anyone?

If there actual evidence I would face it.  Just a note, actual evidence is a script.  That's real evidence.  The game outright telling you you ended the Reaper threat is real evidence.  The epilogue firing no matter you choice is real evidence.

[killnoob]

kent80082006 wrote...

killnoob wrote...

Kulthar Drax wrote...

This is my first time posting here, but after considering the indoctrination theory, it is the only one that makes any real sense. The endings as they stand contribute no closure or satisfactory conclusion to the trilogy or the mass effect universe in general. In fact, if nothing else I would like an ending which DOESN'T destroy all galactic civilization in the form of all Mass Relays being destroyed. Because otherwise, you may as well let the Reapers win. At least the next cycle might have a chance at destroying the Reapers without wrecking galactic civilization to boot. Perhaps one of the endings could be in the far future, with a couple of Yahg discovering Liara's time capsule containing information on defeating the Reapers. Again, another indication of the whole indoctrination and "let the reapers win" attitude. Although yes, you can argue that all the endings result in Mass Relay destructions, I think this is still a hallucination because not even the Reapers will want the relays destroyed.

Bioware want to continue making games in the Mass Effect universe and while you could just make them pre-reaper invasion, it does rather still limit you considerably for the future. This is just another reason why I think the real endings will be released eventually and that it was all a hallucination. Hell, when you go to the destroy option at the end, you're even shooting at a "power conduit", which can theoretically symbolize destroying the Reapers' power over you.

Until you see a cinematic mass relay destroyed and reapers start to fall from the sky and normandy crash into some random planet.

Shepard: err... wasn't I supposed to be hallucinating? I thought I made the right choice and broke free of Harbringer's control? Where did THAT come from?

It has been established that Shepherd broke free when he woke up. The wake up scene is placed AFTER the mass relays and normandy crashing scene. Counter argument and constructive discussion is healthy, but it's obvious that you didn't even bother reading the OP, so you can take with you your sarcasm and hatred and get the f*** out of this thread

How about you read my ****ing post instead.

Why does the waking up bit comes after the cinematics?

That's what I've been trying to understand.

People say he imagined everything.

Why?

Err because the god kid told him that would happen.

But isn't he supposed to be breaking free of control?
How come he still believes and imagine what the god kid says to be true?

[Ghost of a Messiah]

If the ending wasn't a hallucination, then I'll simply subscribe to one of my own.

     I flipped the switch after I shot TIM. All reapers were destroyed. I spent a month or so in the med bay on the Normandy and the Doc fixed me up good as new. Then I went to go settle down on Rannoch in the house I built for one of my crew. Then we just simply lived out the rest of our days in peace. This tired old soldier just put his weapons away for good and held Tali... Heck we even made a legion together.

[Lemondish]

kent80082006 wrote...

It has been established that Shepherd broke free when he woke up. The wake up scene is placed AFTER the mass relays and normandy crashing scene. Counter argument and constructive discussion is healthy, but it's obvious that you didn't even bother reading the OP, so you can take with you your sarcasm and hatred and get the f*** out of this thread

Now now, there's no call for that. This is basically like when a teacher has to explain a concept several different ways so that those with alternative learning styles can pick up on the content. Those who can't understand it are the reason why we're constantly questioning our hypothesis and discovering new ways to support it.

[S.M Shepard]

Tweeted @masseffect the other day that i was left with so many answers after completing the game and i got the answer "hang in there". So i'm 75% that there will be a dlc or some explanation for the ending. We just need patience...

[galaxy366]

killnoob wrote...

AntariuzX wrote...

Can somebody clarify one thing for me, that makes me question indoctrination theory. If it is all a dream indeed, Shepard is indoctrinated, then why even give him the option to destroy reapers? If reapers got into his mind, then they won, the end. Reapers are just giving him option to kill themselves?

Supposedly, they're saying that

Everything is played out in his head.

The reapers are TRYING to indoctrinate him, with a super long build up (with anderson, with TIM, and everything else) in between before getting to the point.

IF you choose destroy,

You defeat the reapers control and wake up.

But that's not before you hallucinate some more about reapers and mass relay getting blown up.

Then why do we see Shepard alive under rocks? DO KNOW, you don't hear weapons firing, but more metally sound and other strange and creepy noise. Sound more like the Citadel then  Eartg

[killnoob]

Elendstourist wrote...

Just dont respond to killnoob and the problem solves itself.


Btw: Any new twitter updates?

Yea, because i'm the only one with the ability to reason.

After I'm gone there will be others.

Trust me.

They might not have the same firepower as I do,

but they will be there.

[LeRavelle]

killnoob wrote...

Evil_medved wrote...

killnoob wrote...

Mr.Burke wrote...

Why indoctrinate him when you can just use the beam of death?

Exactly.

Killing him would be MUCH easier consider how he's unconscious.

He was unconscious once, for DAYS during Arrival.

Did they killed him?

Nope.

Oh right.

So when Harbringer is shooting lasers to stop everyone from getting to the beam, he wasn't trying to kill anyone, he's trying to indoctrinate them using the laser.

C'mon = =

It's possible the reapes don't want to kill shephard but to control him, after all the indoctrinated TiM kept on saying he should be kept alive for now, if they wanted to kill him/her they would have done it by now.

[Noob451]

killnoob wrote...

Elendstourist wrote...

Just dont respond to killnoob and the problem solves itself.


Btw: Any new twitter updates?

Yea, because i'm the only one with the ability to reason.

After I'm gone there will be others.

Trust me.

They might not have the same firepower as I do,

but they will be there.

I'm sorry, but what reason?   you keep asking the same three questions repeatedly.

[Lemondish]

Capeo wrote...

Lemondish wrote...

Capeo wrote...

Oh, please, you don't "understand the ending".  You're making crap up that doesn't fit the evidence because you can't face the simple fact that BW wrote crappy endings.

Just as you can't face the evidence that there may be more to this. Confirmation bias, anyone?

If there actual evidence I would face it.  Just a note, actual evidence is a script.  That's real evidence.  The game outright telling you you ended the Reaper threat is real evidence.  The epilogue firing no matter you choice is real evidence.

A leaked script from ages ago. There is no evidence to suggest that this script hasn't been changed drastically since then. A certain of level of iteration is not only expected, but necessary. Clinging to it for dear life, even when the final product is much more relevant AND recent simply shows that you refuse to accept any evidence contrary to your accepted hypothesis.

The game has indoctrinated you against us. Fight it!

[killnoob]

galaxy366 wrote...

killnoob wrote...

AntariuzX wrote...

Can somebody clarify one thing for me, that makes me question indoctrination theory. If it is all a dream indeed, Shepard is indoctrinated, then why even give him the option to destroy reapers? If reapers got into his mind, then they won, the end. Reapers are just giving him option to kill themselves?

Supposedly, they're saying that

Everything is played out in his head.

The reapers are TRYING to indoctrinate him, with a super long build up (with anderson, with TIM, and everything else) in between before getting to the point.

IF you choose destroy,

You defeat the reapers control and wake up.

But that's not before you hallucinate some more about reapers and mass relay getting blown up.

Then why do we see Shepard alive under rocks? DO KNOW, you don't hear weapons firing, but more metally sound and other strange and creepy noise. Sound more like the Citadel then  Eartg

because Shepard somehow survived after wiping out all reapers, and Shepard is in the ruins of the citadel?
he didn't sacrifice his body if he choose the destroy option.

[Evil_medved]

killnoob wrote...

Elendstourist wrote...

Just dont respond to killnoob and the problem solves itself.


Btw: Any new twitter updates?

Yea, because i'm the only one with the ability to reason.

After I'm gone there will be others.

Trust me.

They might not have the same firepower as I do,

but they will be there.

By "They" you mean bio drones or trolls?

Modifié par Evil_medved, 14 mars 2012 - 05:54 .

[Zaknaberrnon]

moar info on the 1m1 thing, quoting form another thread and adding my own bit after:

F3Zero wrote...

TIMIRIEL sent this to me, anyone want to have at it?

Might help make sense of what BIOWARE wants us to think.

1M1 - i think that's a more inconspicuous way of writing this 1*(M^(-1))

(the formula is used in optics, it actually stands for inverse of focal length, or dioptry,
or convergence...

In Logic, convergence is also the notion that a sequence of transformations come to the same conclusion, no matter what order they are performed in...

maybe it's too far fetched, i don't know
sadly, it fits to well with the "multiple" endings

And heres the clip:


 

my part:

I looked up the definitions for 'convergence' on wikidictionary to see if there were any other interesting meanings, and came across something familiar:

"convergence (countable and uncountable; plural convergences)

   1: The act of moving toward union or uniformity.
        A meeting place.

   2: The intersection of three electron beams for red, green and blue onto a single pixel in a CRT.
    3: (mathematics) The process of approaching some limiting value.
  4:   (physiology) The coordinated focusing of the eyes, especially at short range.
    5: (biology) The evolution of similar structures or traits in unrelated species in similar environments; convergent      evolution.
   6: The merging of distinct technologies, industries, or devices into a unified whole.
"
hmm three different colored explosions for three different choices...

http://en.wiktionary...iki/convergence

Modifié par Zaknaberrnon, 14 mars 2012 - 05:55 .

[Noob451]

killnoob wrote...

galaxy366 wrote...

killnoob wrote...

AntariuzX wrote...

Can somebody clarify one thing for me, that makes me question indoctrination theory. If it is all a dream indeed, Shepard is indoctrinated, then why even give him the option to destroy reapers? If reapers got into his mind, then they won, the end. Reapers are just giving him option to kill themselves?

Supposedly, they're saying that

Everything is played out in his head.

The reapers are TRYING to indoctrinate him, with a super long build up (with anderson, with TIM, and everything else) in between before getting to the point.

IF you choose destroy,

You defeat the reapers control and wake up.

But that's not before you hallucinate some more about reapers and mass relay getting blown up.

Then why do we see Shepard alive under rocks? DO KNOW, you don't hear weapons firing, but more metally sound and other strange and creepy noise. Sound more like the Citadel then  Eartg

because Shepard somehow survived after wiping out all reapers, and Shepard is in the ruins of the citadel?
he didn't sacrifice his body if he choose the destroy option.

oh the citadel is made of concrete and rebar?

[Lemondish]

killnoob wrote...

galaxy366 wrote...

killnoob wrote...

AntariuzX wrote...

Can somebody clarify one thing for me, that makes me question indoctrination theory. If it is all a dream indeed, Shepard is indoctrinated, then why even give him the option to destroy reapers? If reapers got into his mind, then they won, the end. Reapers are just giving him option to kill themselves?

Supposedly, they're saying that

Everything is played out in his head.

The reapers are TRYING to indoctrinate him, with a super long build up (with anderson, with TIM, and everything else) in between before getting to the point.

IF you choose destroy,

You defeat the reapers control and wake up.

But that's not before you hallucinate some more about reapers and mass relay getting blown up.

Then why do we see Shepard alive under rocks? DO KNOW, you don't hear weapons firing, but more metally sound and other strange and creepy noise. Sound more like the Citadel then  Eartg

because Shepard somehow survived after wiping out all reapers, and Shepard is in the ruins of the citadel?
he didn't sacrifice his body if he choose the destroy option.

The ruins of the citadel? Which part do you think is made of cement and rebar?

[killnoob]

Noob451 wrote...

killnoob wrote...

Elendstourist wrote...

Just dont respond to killnoob and the problem solves itself.


Btw: Any new twitter updates?

Yea, because i'm the only one with the ability to reason.

After I'm gone there will be others.

Trust me.

They might not have the same firepower as I do,

but they will be there.

I'm sorry, but what reason?   you keep asking the same three questions repeatedly.

Because these question are what's so retarded about the indoctrination theory.
If you can't answer these questions, dont think your theory is the real **** and don't say you have evidence.

Indoctrination theory is just as full of holes as the current ending.