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[killnoob]

Erethrian wrote...

kent80082006 wrote...

killnoob wrote...

And the theories continues.

You know, I'm starting to think Bioware is brilliant.

They've managed to create an ending that allows everyone to fill what they want into the blanks.

Seriously,

if you believe in the indoctrination theory/hallucination theory/whatever the **** theory, you have lost your right to complain about the ending because you've done exactly what bioware wants you to do.

Good job Bioware

Let's hope the endings to their next game remain similar to ME3 so it'll get everyone talking.

You have lost your right to complain?

You do know not everyone will whine like a little baby when something didn't go the way they wanted it to go, right?
You may complain all you want, heck you can even torch down their building if you're so filled with discontent that you so desperately want to convince everyone to protest with you.

But we're looking for something a bit more positive here, and I feel like you don't belong here with us.
It doesn't matter if we're wrong, we have nothing to lose, but doing this gives us hope and makes us feel better. We are absolutely not trying to preach this theory to anyone, and what we do here is not doing anyone any harm in any way, so I don't understand why you so desperately want to shut us up.

You're trying to convince us that what we're doing here is meaningless, but from my point of view we're doing something far more constructive and meaningful than what you're doing: whinning

Constructive as in playing right into Bioware's hand and fixing their plotholes from them and make them look better writers than they actually are? And then when your theory turn out to be right and they release an ending DLC you're gonna fork over your money and buy it?

How is that constructive comparing to people who are complaining about the ending and trying to get them to fix it themselves, rather than letting the fan to fix it for them?

I'm not trying to convince you what you're doing is meaningless.

I'm trying to say that a lot of people here have been posting elsewhere telling people about the hallucinations theory is right, and I'm here trying to prove that there are plotholes within the theory, as well as reminding everyone that by creating excuses for their lazy ending is doing everyone more harm than good.

You can believe whatever the hell you want for all I care so long as you don't shove it in my face and claim your theory is flawless, because it isn't.

[Goddy10]

Auresta wrote...

Goddy10 wrote...

I need to bring up something that hasn't been properly analyzed yet; Why do the facial scars left by Cerberus remain completely dormant for the entire game up until towards the ending? I thyink Cerberus has more to do with this theory then we're giving them credit for.

Those codes that are on the Normandy and the Citadel is another hint.

Facials scars have been brought up. i don't konw twhe ragument surrounding it but Shepard's pretty beat up at the end. Facial scarring showing through isn't that big of a deal.

Go back and watch the last cutscene with your LI on the Normandy. They appear plain as day before Shephard even enters the fight.

[kent80082006]

Lurchibald wrote...

Thread Derailed as far as I can tell... it's been 30 pages since I was last here and still all I'm seeing is either killnoob posting or people quoting and replying to killnoob... <_< 

So lets not do that anymore, lets stick back to facts and cautious speculations

[Niemack Saarinen]

killnoob wrote...

Fledgey wrote...

killnoob wrote...

Auresta wrote...

killnoob wrote...


Ofc they wouldn't try to indoctrinate him when he has his finger on the button.
IT'd be too late anyway.

In case if you haven't noticed, Harbringer tries to kill him by shooting LASERS at him, to prevent him from reaching the beam.

Are you saying that after Shepard got knocked out he suddenly has a change of heart AGAIN and decide to indoctrinate him one last time?

Honestly, that'd be the worst writing I've ever seen in fiction if it happens to be true.

Can someone address this?

Yea, can someone address this, I'm interested.

He never shoots directly at shepard, only at the other soldiers and vehicles charging the conduit.

So you're saying he's letting Shepard to reach the beam while killing everyone elses off?

But he accidentally hit him and he goes

Oh Shi-

Ah well. Might as well try to indoctrinate him now.

If you think about prior to that - Shep defending the Thanix Missles - that reaper is basically ontop of you and shooting all around you,  if he really wanted to kill you all he had to do was shoot the missles and blow your ass up,  i somehow think that reaper could have obliterated me if it wanted. But instead? it only puts up a defensive fight the instant you launch the last missles - seemed too fishy, too easy.

[Getorex]

StillOverrated wrote...

killnoob wrote...

StillOverrated wrote...

Some million people probably already brought this up (a hundred million times, I wager) but if the indoctrination theory is right, then this just makes everything worse.

Its not gonna be right because at this point, if Bioware comes out and say "Yeah The indoctrination theory is what we're going for,"

They will seriously make a bunch of people (inlcuding me) look like idiots.

They risk pissing off their fan base even more.

Pretty sure they're not dumb enough to do that.

Now BW,

Please don't prove me wrong

Oh, don't worry. They'll make us ALL look like idiots when they eventually reveal that they sold us an incomplete game.

Ummm.  No.  They have lost good will an will NOT gain it back when they CHARGE for the unlock to make the game complete.  

I seriously doubt that there's much they can do for many who, with the mere passage of 10 minutes at the end of the game lost ALL interest and heart for the entire ME franchise.  

If they DON'T charge for the fix then tney will regain some of these people but if they charge for it, they're royally ****ed.

[eoinnx03]

Lol look at this, we finnally hit a nerve http://24.media.tumb...eekauo1_500.jpg

[killnoob]

byne wrote...

killnoob wrote...

StillOverrated wrote...

Some million people probably already brought this up (a hundred million times, I wager) but if the indoctrination theory is right, then this just makes everything worse.

Its not gonna be right because at this point, if Bioware comes out and say "Yeah The indoctrination theory is what we're going for,"

They will seriously make a bunch of people (inlcuding me) look like idiots.

They risk pissing off their fan base even more.

Pretty sure they're not dumb enough to do that.

Now BW,

Please don't prove me wrong

But hasnt most of your argument up to this point been based on Bioware being dumb enough to think the current endings were good endings?

What stops them from being dumb enough to ****** more people off?

In case you haven't read it, I've already said I changed my mind.

I think Bioware is brilliant.

They've got us by the balls.

Whenever some people complain about the lazy endings, some fan will show up and start shoving conspiracy theories in their face.

I'm pretty sure this is exactly what they want.

[Gamedwarf24]

I swear to god IF Bioware is trolling the **** out of us...they better at least give us the troll face when they release the ending DLC.

[El_Spiko]

 Sorry if I'm repeating anything already said, I haven't had time to read the bajillion pages of this thread.

I'm totally on board with the indoctrination theory. A couple things I didn't see mentioned in the Thesis at the beginning.

1m1 - I saw this posted elsewhere on the forum: 

1M1 - i think that's a more inconspicuous way of writing this 1*(M^(-1))

(the formula is used in optics, it actually stands for inverse of focal length, or dioptry,
or convergence...

In Logic, convergence is also the notion that a sequence of transformations come to the same conclusion, no matter what order they are performed in... 

Especially considering the mirroring of 1m1 on the walkway to TIM and on top of the citadel with the child, this makes a lot of sense.

Something that's not so much evidence but that does support the ID theory is Shepherd being space Jesus. There's countless parallels throughout the game, and at the end Shep is looking at having to sacrifice himself on the crucible to save everyone else. If his story were to parallel Christ's in the Last Temptation of Christ, then the end sequence is a pretty good reimagining of that. We have the devil (harbinger) taking the form of a guardian angel child (our ghost child) that speaks in a multi-layered voice that tries to convince Jesus to make a choice that is totally counter-intuitive to the entire narrative of the story and his life up until that point. With so many allusions to Shepherd being space Jesus (hell, even look at his name) it seems like more than coincidence that there are many parallels between ME3's ending and the LToC.

[killnoob]

Niemack Saarinen wrote...


If you think about prior to that - Shep defending the Thanix Missles - that reaper is basically ontop of you and shooting all around you,  if he really wanted to kill you all he had to do was shoot the missles and blow your ass up,  i somehow think that reaper could have obliterated me if it wanted. But instead? it only puts up a defensive fight the instant you launch the last missles - seemed too fishy, too easy.

So you're basically saying that reaper deliberately give Shepard a chance to destroy them?

OR

Is it a lot easier to believe that they simply consider Shepar insignificant at this point and just blind shootingand trying to kill everything that moves?

[Getorex]

Niemack Saarinen wrote...

killnoob wrote...

Fledgey wrote...

killnoob wrote...

Auresta wrote...

killnoob wrote...


Ofc they wouldn't try to indoctrinate him when he has his finger on the button.
IT'd be too late anyway.

In case if you haven't noticed, Harbringer tries to kill him by shooting LASERS at him, to prevent him from reaching the beam.

Are you saying that after Shepard got knocked out he suddenly has a change of heart AGAIN and decide to indoctrinate him one last time?

Honestly, that'd be the worst writing I've ever seen in fiction if it happens to be true.

Can someone address this?

Yea, can someone address this, I'm interested.

He never shoots directly at shepard, only at the other soldiers and vehicles charging the conduit.

So you're saying he's letting Shepard to reach the beam while killing everyone elses off?

But he accidentally hit him and he goes

Oh Shi-

Ah well. Might as well try to indoctrinate him now.

If you think about prior to that - Shep defending the Thanix Missles - that reaper is basically ontop of you and shooting all around you,  if he really wanted to kill you all he had to do was shoot the missles and blow your ass up,  i somehow think that reaper could have obliterated me if it wanted. But instead? it only puts up a defensive fight the instant you launch the last missles - seemed too fishy, too easy.

That "fishy" is merely you fishing for reason and hope in the mess that is the end.  Keep in mind that all the Reaper that blew apart the two shuttles at the beginning of the game with the kid in one of them merely had to sweep its laser a little to the right to blow the Normandy to hell.  There were other times in the game where similar things COULD have happened.  They didn't because it wasn't within the needs/narrative of the game.  Don't read too much into too many things.  Sometimes a cigar really is just a cigar.

[Martukis]

Getorex wrote...

Golferguy758 wrote...

The people who ae using that interview really ned tostop. He's dodging the question because he and bioware still have tricks. Read jessic's twitter. Look beyond what is directly in front of you

Their "trick" is an EA "trick".  Instead of giving us a real ending and then providing nice DLC they sold us a defective product and the trick is to charge us for the fix: a DLC that corrects the bull**** ending.  That's your trick up their sleeve.

Not a very good trick and not one to garner love and support. 

Keep in mind that you had to pay for the first DLC with the Prothean in it.  Keep in mind that they claimed it was developed separately from the main game so wasn't ever part of the game.  Keep in mind that this has, in fact, been proven to be false and that it is possible to unlock this part of the full, actual game without doing the DLC pay game.  Keep in mind that they LIED in order to squeeze money from players.  I fully expect to see a REAL ending come out that costs money.  I fully expect that this REAL ending was originally part of the main game plan but that they decided to pull it to make a defective product and get more money from us to fix it.

 From Ashes was included in the Collector's edition.

[Lurchibald]

All I'm saying is that all that can be said has been said and now everyone is just constantly repeating what the other is saying.

[killnoob]

Getorex wrote...

 Sometimes a cigar really is just a cigar.

Opinion aside, that is one motherfking awesome quote.

I'm quoting you from now on.

[turelhimvampire]

Another thing that gets me, if it isn't a hallucination/indoctrination attempt... how does the Illusive Man control Anderson - he controls Shepard due to his reaper tech developed cybernetics - in the same way Paul Greyson was.

Anderson has no reaper tech cybernetics. I still believe Anderson was killed by Harbingers "Fricken' laser beams" and that he is a figment of the Indoctrination attempt.

[lex0r11]

killnoob wrote...

Erethrian wrote...

kent80082006 wrote...

killnoob wrote...

And the theories continues.

You know, I'm starting to think Bioware is brilliant.

They've managed to create an ending that allows everyone to fill what they want into the blanks.

Seriously,

if you believe in the indoctrination theory/hallucination theory/whatever the **** theory, you have lost your right to complain about the ending because you've done exactly what bioware wants you to do.

Good job Bioware

Let's hope the endings to their next game remain similar to ME3 so it'll get everyone talking.

You have lost your right to complain?

You do know not everyone will whine like a little baby when something didn't go the way they wanted it to go, right?
You may complain all you want, heck you can even torch down their building if you're so filled with discontent that you so desperately want to convince everyone to protest with you.

But we're looking for something a bit more positive here, and I feel like you don't belong here with us.
It doesn't matter if we're wrong, we have nothing to lose, but doing this gives us hope and makes us feel better. We are absolutely not trying to preach this theory to anyone, and what we do here is not doing anyone any harm in any way, so I don't understand why you so desperately want to shut us up.

You're trying to convince us that what we're doing here is meaningless, but from my point of view we're doing something far more constructive and meaningful than what you're doing: whinning

Constructive as in playing right into Bioware's hand and fixing their plotholes from them and make them look better writers than they actually are? And then when your theory turn out to be right and they release an ending DLC you're gonna fork over your money and buy it?

How is that constructive comparing to people who are complaining about the ending and trying to get them to fix it themselves, rather than letting the fan to fix it for them?

I'm not trying to convince you what you're doing is meaningless.

I'm trying to say that a lot of people here have been posting elsewhere telling people about the hallucinations theory is right, and I'm here trying to prove that there are plotholes within the theory, as well as reminding everyone that by creating excuses for their lazy ending is doing everyone more harm than good.

You can believe whatever the hell you want for all I care so long as you don't shove it in my face and claim your theory is flawless, because it isn't.

let me ask you this, do you consider yourself a fan of this franchise? why is this bad?

if they don't have a plan in place, then this is considered feedback in form of ideas, the whole board is packed with it. but if they have a plan, this is just an idea how it could work and how they might try to do it. and as far as i can remember, this is how dlc can actually be implemented in a good way. because the whole thing was a hallucination.

Modifié par lex0r11, 14 mars 2012 - 07:13 .

[Alexjenko]

http://arkis.deviant...ILERS-289902125

http://dl.dropbox.co...31384088609.jpg

[killnoob]

Lurchibald wrote...

All I'm saying is that all that can be said has been said and now everyone is just constantly repeating what the other is saying.

True.

Not gonna change a god damn thing

But true.

[Bourne Endeavor]

WizenSlinky0 wrote...

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

Either way, this is irrelevant speculation. If the DLC is free, we have nothing to really complain about. Now if they attach a cost, well that is another story.

I disagree. I will complain for the console users who cannot or do not hook their 360's up to the internet. They either will never know a new ending exists or never be able to get it. And if it was released as a physical disc it would cease to be free due to production costs.

Ah yes, that would be irritating. Although, if you have an ethernet cable you can use the free two day trial that is included with the game to download it. It is far from a perfect solution and I do believe they would have been better off putting it in the actual game, albeit after the credits, then as DLC but this is superior to the horrid endings we have now. At least Youtube would be an option, even if not a great one.

[Getorex]

killnoob wrote...

Getorex wrote...

 Sometimes a cigar really is just a cigar.

Opinion aside, that is one motherfking awesome quote.

I'm quoting you from now on.

Well, I was paraphrasing Sigmund Freud there so don't give me too much credit.

[crimsontotem]

Lurchibald wrote...

All I'm saying is that all that can be said has been said and now everyone is just constantly repeating what the other is saying.

I agree... I think we have founded all the evidence we can get... now it's just analyzing the symbolic image in the games. Which could be slightly opinionated. 

[TheRealQueen]

killnoob wrote...

byne wrote...

killnoob wrote...

StillOverrated wrote...

Some million people probably already brought this up (a hundred million times, I wager) but if the indoctrination theory is right, then this just makes everything worse.

Its not gonna be right because at this point, if Bioware comes out and say "Yeah The indoctrination theory is what we're going for,"

They will seriously make a bunch of people (inlcuding me) look like idiots.

They risk pissing off their fan base even more.

Pretty sure they're not dumb enough to do that.

Now BW,

Please don't prove me wrong

But hasnt most of your argument up to this point been based on Bioware being dumb enough to think the current endings were good endings?

What stops them from being dumb enough to ****** more people off?

In case you haven't read it, I've already said I changed my mind.

I think Bioware is brilliant.

They've got us by the balls.

Whenever some people complain about the lazy endings, some fan will show up and start shoving conspiracy theories in their face.

I'm pretty sure this is exactly what they want.

I don't know about anyone else here, but if Bioware doesn't give us an ending expansion, I don't care if this Indoctrination Theory is correct, I will be pissed and will not rise to defend them. I was of the opinion that this thread was hinged on the fact that this theory left it open for an ending (free) dlc that was planned already and ready to be released soon. If that has changed, or if I am mistaken, I apologize, but this is where I personally stand. But while I think this theory has merit, and I hope that the dlc will be released soon, I understand your frustration. However, I hope you are mistaken.

If the ending stays as is, I feel it is unexcusable, even if this theory is correct. I hope I am not alone here.

[MEcamilla]

There is also one more thing...My canon Shep, on my 1st playtrough i chose the control option...Here it is: halfway on the platform, i changed my mind and tried to go back but I COULDNT!!!!!that confirms the indoctrination theory!!!

[Denethar]

Let's be honest everyone, some of these theories is just overreaching things. The reason Shepard isn't aimed at/killed earlier in the last level is the same reason as to why Normandy can just fly around a Reaper in the introduction....plot armor.

[noobcannon]

WizenSlinky0 wrote...

akawa106 wrote...

I'm not sure if any1 covered this but i got one question (not ganna read 400 pages) I like this theory but if this theory were to be true then why does it give you different options if u complete the game with less resources (or combat readiness or wtv they call it) and specifically why would u get some where the only option is destroy.  I dont have the page up that shows all the available endins but i'm sure i saw some that the only option u had to to destroy, and if destroy is the option that the reapers dont want you to have, why make it ur only one?

To the first question as far as I've seen the theory is "more war assets = higher will to fight for shepard".

But the fact destroy is sometimes the only ending is something I...did not consider. Interesting point. Wish I had thought of it.

if you have low war assets and have the destroy option, it's because you destroyed the collector base at the end of me2. if you saved the collector base, control is the only option.

also pay attention to the spaceboy's conversation with low war assets vs high war assets. the dialouge is slightly different at parts. with low war assets he says "what are you doing here?". with high war assets he says "wake up".