57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Ghrelt]

I think most of us who believe in this theory also believe that Bioware only redeems themselves if:

a) they release the "True Ending" DLC for free, and
they release it within a week or two of the last zone getting ME3 (which happens tomorrow, btw)

[Elendstourist]

Ramus wrote...

The last BOSS

I lol'd

[killnoob]

lex0r11 wrote...

killnoob wrote...

LenabotSE wrote...

killnoob, I must commend you on your masterful trolling.

Nah seriously though,

If you can explain to me, with a clear, obvious answer as to why Harbringer would suddenly change his mind and decide to indoctrinate Shepard after knocking him out with a "deathly laser' that is supposed to be used for killing, then I'm all for the indoctrination theory.

Otherwise,

I'll just stick to my own theory that Shepard doesn't exist and is merely a fictional character created by the Stargazer in order to entertain his grand son.

i'll just say it will be difficult for us non bioware folks to rationalize reapers. only they know why they acted like the did. i think al l0ot of people came of with alot of possibilities as to why the frick indoctrination kicks in at the final hour of the game. we don't even know how bioware thinks it really works. THAT would be a great opportunity to explain how the reapers really do it, don't you think?

Mate, i dont think any opportunity would be a good enough opportunity to reveal what the reapers want.

They are supposed to be incomprehensible.

Whatever bull**** came out of that child's mouth is not incomprehensible, it's stupid.

We wumans can't even explain why the fk we're alive and why do we even try to understand something like the reapers?

Fk that.

Modifié par killnoob, 14 mars 2012 - 08:02 .

[Midna Shepard]

What if it's all about DEATH? I mean, the Reapers need humans to be dead (or almost dead) in order to turn them into husks, so maybe it is what the harbirger is trying to do with Shepard. Maybe every human has to face the same choice before the transformation in order to allow that kind of "synthesis" to happen. So we can imagine that choice as a struggle for Shepard to resist against the transformation into a husk. BUT the difference between Shepard and other humans is that the Commander has also in mind 2 other possibilities thanks to TIM and Anderson.

The only choice that doesn't tranform Shepard is the red one (destroy). When s/he picks the other options his/her body clearly becomes something else.

[Elenterx]

k I'm gonna edit it and upload it quick, It is DEFINITELY TIM.
I got it recorded the first time I heard it, will edit part out where my dog starts to go ****ing crazy.

Reloading the save file put me back at activating the hammers tho and I just did it on insantiy so I'm sad about that.

I'll record it closer to tv again to ensure you all.

[Hurricane Brad]

killnoob wrote...

Hurricane Brad wrote...

killnoob wrote...

Right, and spending three games trying to do that wasn't enough.
They have to keep trying until the very end, where Shepard actually has a chance to destroy every reapers in existence.

but because they're dumb machines they' cant reason:

Oh let's just try one more time before he blows us up if that doesn't work we'll kill him.
After he blows us up.

What exactly are you not understanding here?  According to the theory (or at least my interpretation of it) the reapers are not at risk of blowing up, because it's not actually happening.  Shepard is still unconscious in the pile of rubble near the beam in London.  HE IS NOT ON THE CITADEL.  They would not risk trying to indoctrinate him if he had his finger on the button, so to speak.  Because he is vulnerable and not an immediate threat to them, Harbinger figures "why the hell not" and makes an attempt to indoctrinate him.  Harbinger has always had a personal interest in taking Shepard alive if possible, so that's why he doesn't just finish him off.

Ofc they wouldn't try to indoctrinate him when he has his finger on the button.
IT'd be too late anyway.

In case if you haven't noticed, Harbringer tries to kill him by shooting LASERS at him, to prevent him from reaching the beam.

Are you saying that after Shepard got knocked out he suddenly has a change of heart AGAIN and decide to indoctrinate him one last time?

Honestly, that'd be the worst writing I've ever seen in fiction if it happens to be true.


Also

Read the highlighted part.

And gimme one reason why I should take your interpetation as fact.

*reposted as it seems to have gotten missed*

Harbinger tried to kill him when he was rushing the beam because he was a threat.  Just because he would prefer to take Shepard alive doesn't mean he would risk letting his most dangerous foe get to the superweapon that could potentially defeat the reapers.  I see no reason why he wouldn't make an indoctrination attempt while Shepard is unconscious as Shepard is no longer a threat and his unconscious mind should be more vulnerable.  It would be safer to just kill him, but I'm sure Harbinger is more than a little overconfident since Shepard is seemingly helpless.  For whatever reason he has always wanted Shepard alive if possible.  Also as far as we know Shepard has never before faced an indoctrination attempt, he has never been shown to struggle with this previously so I don't know what you mean by Harbinger attempting it "one last time."

I didn't say you should take my interpretation as fact, it is just a theory afterall.  We won't know if it's true or not until Bioware actually says something about it or releases new ending content.  Look at the evidence and draw your own conclusions, there is a lot of it that suggests that what happens to Shepard after the reaper beam is not reality.

If you are going to argue against the theory however you should at least understand the basics of it.  As far as I've seen, everybody in this thread who agrees at all with the indoctrination theory rejects the scene with the catalyst kid as being part of the indoctrination attempt.  It is in Shepard's head and if he attempts to destroy the reapers in his head it obviously doesn't mean they are destroyed in reality.  It just means that he has fought off the indoctrination attempt, which is why it shows him draw breath while lying in the rubble in London.  He can then hopefully get up and attempt to complete his mission. 

[Roll Equals Cute]

This was posted in another thread. Side-by-side-by-side-etc comparisons of the endings. Depressing, but...maybe a hint or something in there?

Thoughts?

[Debi-Tage]

[/quote]

if tali is a LI they reveal her face. how they do it though comes off as lazy to most. she gives you a framed picture of her without her helment on. the picture however is photoshopped from a random stock photo.

http://i.imgur.com/Uyuhk.jpg 

[/quote]

Link didn't work, but thank you (seriously).

At any rate the point is that yes, people are mad at ME3 for various reasons...I have some gripes of my own about things unrelated to the point of this thread - so I don't post them here and use them for evidence of how bad Bioware sucks and never could've come up with something like this. I go to the appropriate thread - to either rage, or complain about plotholes that have NOTHING to do with this thread. This is a thread where we are theorizing and trying to make sense of the endings - not complain that the graphics sucked or Bioware is mean and hates their fans.

[camcon2100]

[quote]killnoob wrote...

[quote]lex0r11 wrote...

[quote]killnoob wrote...

[quote]LenabotSE wrote...

killnoob, I must commend you on your masterful trolling. [/quote]



Nah seriously though,

If you can explain to me, with a clear, obvious answer as to why Harbringer would suddenly change his mind and decide to indoctrinate Shepard after knocking him out with a "deathly laser' that is supposed to be used for killing, then I'm all for the indoctrination theory.

Otherwise,

I'll just stick to my own theory that Shepard doesn't exist and is merely a fictional character created by the Stargazer in order to entertain his grand son.


[/quote]

i'll just say it will be difficult for us non bioware folks to rationalize reapers. only they know why they acted like the did. i think al l0ot of people came of with alot of possibilities as to why the frick indoctrination kicks in at the final hour of the game. we don't even know how bioware thinks it really works. THAT would be a great opportunity to explain how the reapers really do it, don't you think?

[/quote]

Remember Arrival, Harbinger spared Shep for a chance to indoctrinate him

[Elanor]

Elendstourist wrote...

Ramus wrote...

The last BOSS

I lol'd

Hahah. xD

[killnoob]

Hurricane Brad wrote...

Harbinger tried to kill him when he was rushing the beam because he was a threat.  Just because he would prefer to take Shepard alive doesn't mean he would risk letting his most dangerous foe get to the superweapon that could potentially defeat the reapers.  I see no reason why he wouldn't make an indoctrination attempt while Shepard is unconscious as Shepard is no longer a threat and his unconscious mind should be more vulnerable.  It would be safer to just kill him, but I'm sure Harbinger is more than a little overconfident since Shepard is seemingly helpless.  For whatever reason he has always wanted Shepard alive if possible.  Also as far as we know Shepard has never before faced an indoctrination attempt, he has never been shown to struggle with this previously so I don't know what you mean by Harbinger attempting it "one last time."

I didn't say you should take my interpretation as fact, it is just a theory afterall.  We won't know if it's true or not until Bioware actually says something about it or releases new ending content.  Look at the evidence and draw your own conclusions, there is a lot of it that suggests that what happens to Shepard after the reaper beam is not reality.

If you are going to argue against the theory however you should at least understand the basics of it.  As far as I've seen, everybody in this thread who agrees at all with the indoctrination theory rejects the scene with the catalyst kid as being part of the indoctrination attempt.  It is in Shepard's head and if he attempts to destroy the reapers in his head it obviously doesn't mean they are destroyed in reality.  It just means that he has fought off the indoctrination attempt, which is why it shows him draw breath while lying in the rubble in London.  He can then hopefully get up and attempt to complete his mission. 

Your not getting it friend.

1 second before, Harby was bent on killing everbody.

the next second, when he has the perfect opportunity to deal the killing blow, he changes his mind?

Seriously that just would not work well in fictions.

Its like one of those villians that talk and talk and wasted their element of surprise by constantly talking when they could've just stabs the protagonist to death.

[Arkennys]

Hey everyone!

I'd just like to quickly add my voice to yours, though I have nothing new to contribute.

First I would like to thank everybody for all the details and the structured analysis. It really is awesome. As soon as the bit where you run down towards the teleport beam started, I immediately felt something was off, then the conversation with TIM and RGC left me utterly baffled. I couldn't exactly explain what my proplem was, but it felt terribly wrong. I figured someone smarter must know what's going on, thus I came to these forums.

I love this theory a lot, and even if BW makes no follow up, or comes out to say that the ending is real and canon, I'll stick to this. As far as I am concerned this is what has happened and nobody can convince me otherwise. Though I'd love to see an actual ending that makes sense, preferably in the form of a free DLC. However, though I realise this would set a bad precedent and it certainly would be unethical business, I must admit I'd be willing to pay for it, if the reviews said the new ending is not terrible like the current one.

Regards, Kargil

[Sierra163]

Ellythe wrote...

I think most of us who believe in this theory also believe that Bioware only redeems themselves if:

a) they release the "True Ending" DLC for free, and
they release it within a week or two of the last zone getting ME3 (which happens tomorrow, btw)

It's currently 5am on Thursday (15th) in Japan, so we'll see.

[Elanor]

Roll Equals Cute wrote...



This was posted in another thread. Side-by-side-by-side-etc comparisons of the endings. Depressing, but...maybe a hint or something in there?

Thoughts?

Nice colors.

[killnoob]

[quote]camcon2100 wrote...

[quote]killnoob wrote...

[quote]lex0r11 wrote...

[quote]killnoob wrote...

[quote]LenabotSE wrote...

killnoob, I must commend you on your masterful trolling. [/quote]



Nah seriously though,

If you can explain to me, with a clear, obvious answer as to why Harbringer would suddenly change his mind and decide to indoctrinate Shepard after knocking him out with a "deathly laser' that is supposed to be used for killing, then I'm all for the indoctrination theory.

Otherwise,

I'll just stick to my own theory that Shepard doesn't exist and is merely a fictional character created by the Stargazer in order to entertain his grand son.


[/quote]

i'll just say it will be difficult for us non bioware folks to rationalize reapers. only they know why they acted like the did. i think al l0ot of people came of with alot of possibilities as to why the frick indoctrination kicks in at the final hour of the game. we don't even know how bioware thinks it really works. THAT would be a great opportunity to explain how the reapers really do it, don't you think?

[/quote]

Remember Arrival, Harbinger spared Shep for a chance to indoctrinate him[/quote]

Thats in Arrival, where the Crucible doesn't exist and reapers are under the impression no one can kill them

They clearly change their mind when they see a bunch of human charging towards the beam,

Harby pretty much goes into panic mode and blind shoot everyone who gets close.

Arrival =/= Mass Effect 3

[tatortodd22]

WizenSlinky0 wrote...

Auresta wrote...

Something about destroy being the only option means the Reapers do not think of you as a threat. With low EMS = low commitment to the game and involvement in the war effort, you won't live after it anyway. More EMS = more potential for Shepard to really break through, so they offer you more options to steer you away from surviving in Destroy/carrying out your real mission. Not a great argument, though.

This is all assuming that the theory is right.

Yeah, that's not a very steady argument. There is no precedent for that set. There has never been a case where reapers decided it wasn't worth their effort and half-assed their indoctrination. Either A.) Indoctrination is passive and therefore would not have varying degrees of effect based on your war assets, or B.) Indoctrination is active and they would not bothering indoctrinating you if the only thing they were going to do is give you the only ending that breaks you out of it anyway.

Indoctrination is a combination of passive and active efforts on the part of the Reapers, I think. It is a constant and permanent effect on a person's personality and behavior, and effects the masses. However, Saren in the beginning is spared of most indoctrination because he is more valuable to the Reapers as a fully functioning asset (indoctrination dumbs down a brain, zombifies it). So clearly they have some active control over the degree of the indoctrination, and we can assume that they can also control the means of the indoctrination as well.

I think only giving you the option of destroying is less of a reflection on the options the Reapers present Shepard, and more a reflection on Shepards determination/destiny because of his past actions and attitudes expressed. I haven't looked too much into the EMS details and everything though. I could be wrong.


For a lot of the child proof, I recorded video of all the interactions and spottings of the child in the beginning, and summarize a lot of the evidence people have mentioned, with some of my own contributions:

[Peer of the Empire]

I have wonderd what bioware was going to do for ME3 dlc and the indoctrinated ending makes sense.  Very elegant

[lex0r11]

killnoob wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

killnoob wrote...

LenabotSE wrote...

killnoob, I must commend you on your masterful trolling.

Nah seriously though,

If you can explain to me, with a clear, obvious answer as to why Harbringer would suddenly change his mind and decide to indoctrinate Shepard after knocking him out with a "deathly laser' that is supposed to be used for killing, then I'm all for the indoctrination theory.

Otherwise,

I'll just stick to my own theory that Shepard doesn't exist and is merely a fictional character created by the Stargazer in order to entertain his grand son.

i'll just say it will be difficult for us non bioware folks to rationalize reapers. only they know why they acted like the did. i think al l0ot of people came of with alot of possibilities as to why the frick indoctrination kicks in at the final hour of the game. we don't even know how bioware thinks it really works. THAT would be a great opportunity to explain how the reapers really do it, don't you think?

Mate, i dont think any opportunity would be a good enough opportunity to reveal what the reapers want.

They are supposed to be incomprehensible.

Whatever bull**** came out of that child's mouth is not incomprehensible, it's stupid.

We wumans can't even explain why the fk we're alive and why do we even try to understand something like the reapers?

Fk that.

but honestly, they could do it. what better way to first show a sequence, which is afterwards revealed as indoctrination and after the real fight/boss battle/another end dialogue they could explain it through.. hm, space magic?

damn, there it is again.

[Zealuu]

I'll frantically cling to this until we get something tangible from Bioware.

I wouldn't trust inbred-looking ghost kids anyway.

[VvAndromedavV]

killnoob wrote...
IF you actually follow the thread you will discover there are plenty of evidence against the hallucination theory.

But hey as long as you don't start telling everyone it's fact you can believe whatever the hell you want.

I for one believe stargazer made Shepard up.

IF you can believe that yes, I have paged through this thread off and on for a few days, but no, I don't have the time/desire to read every post in a thread that is currently 474 pages long...

Uh, yeah.

Not everyone is camping this tread all day long as you seem to be. That doesn't mean they haven't paged through it before posting.

I said there was evidence for it. I never said there wasn't evidence against it, and I never said it was fact. I said that when I first saw the ending that was my personal interpretation, and it still is.

Modifié par VvAndromedavV, 14 mars 2012 - 08:12 .

[killnoob]

Midna Shepard wrote...

What if it's all about DEATH? I mean, the Reapers need humans to be dead (or almost dead) in order to turn them into husks, so maybe it is what the harbirger is trying to do with Shepard. Maybe every human has to face the same choice before the transformation in order to allow that kind of "synthesis" to happen. So we can imagine that choice as a struggle for Shepard to resist against the transformation into a husk. BUT the difference between Shepard and other humans is that the Commander has also in mind 2 other possibilities thanks to TIM and Anderson.

The only choice that doesn't tranform Shepard is the red one (destroy). When s/he picks the other options his/her body clearly becomes something else.

That would not explain the cinematics.

But good theory, I actually like this one.

[Diggsworth]

Debi-Tage wrote...

if tali is a LI they reveal her face. how they do it though comes off as lazy to most. she gives you a framed picture of her without her helment on. the picture however is photoshopped from a random stock photo.

http://i.imgur.com/Uyuhk.jpg 

Link didn't work, but thank you (seriously).

At any rate the point is that yes, people are mad at ME3 for various reasons...I have some gripes of my own about things unrelated to the point of this thread - so I don't post them here and use them for evidence of how bad Bioware sucks and never could've come up with something like this. I go to the appropriate thread - to either rage, or complain about plotholes that have NOTHING to do with this thread. This is a thread where we are theorizing and trying to make sense of the endings - not complain that the graphics sucked or Bioware is mean and hates their fans.

http://imgur.com/Uyuhk.jpg 

Fixed.

Modifié par Diggsworth, 14 mars 2012 - 08:10 .

[TheRealQueen]

killnoob wrote...

LenabotSE wrote...

killnoob, I must commend you on your masterful trolling.

http://4.bp.blogspot... Emoticon3.png


Nah seriously though,

If you can explain to me, with a clear, obvious answer as to why Harbringer would suddenly change his mind and decide to indoctrinate Shepard after knocking him out with a "deathly laser' that is supposed to be used for killing, then I'm all for the indoctrination theory.

Otherwise,

I'll just stick to my own theory that Shepard doesn't exist and is merely a fictional character created by the Stargazer in order to entertain his grand son.

I don't think Harbinger changed his mind. I don't think his intention was to kill Shepard in the first place. If his intention was to kill him in the first place, I think Shepard would be dead. As you said, it's a "deathly laser". I mean, you are running straight at the conduit, it's an easy shot. It also appears as if you are hit dead on, but I can't be sure as it fades to white so we don't see Shepard actually getting hit. You insist that Harbinger wants Shepard dead, and yet, Harbinger doesn't kill him/her. If he really wanted Shepard dead, as you insist, wouldn't he shoot Shepard again, just to make sure?

I understand that you don't want to fully accept that Harbinger would indoctrinate Shepard. I also understand that you don't want us saying that this theory is fact, because it is in fact a theory, thus isn't fact. But I would like to also say that there is lots of evidence that Harbinger doesn't want Shepard dead, either. Neither position is concrete.

Also, I feel it should be noted that the blasts are random, sometimes aimed at something, sometimes not. At points it takes out a person, at another time it shoots a pile of rubble. It's a machine, it should be more accurate than that if it's truly intent on killing all of the forces. That's just how I see it.

[killnoob]

VvAndromedavV wrote...

killnoob wrote...
IF you actually follow the thread you will discover there are plenty of evidence against the hallucination theory.

But hey as long as you don't start telling everyone it's fact you can believe whatever the hell you want.

I for one believe stargazer made Shepard up.

Uh, yeah.

Not everyone is camping this tread all day long as you seem to be. That doesn't mean they haven't paged through it before posting.

Which is why i said you can believe whatever you want as long as you don't start treating it as fact like some of the people do here and everywhere else.

I camp because I have time, and if I have time why not?

[Zealuu]

Surely someone as advanced as the Reapers can "set phasers to stun", right?