57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Hurricane Brad]

killnoob wrote...

Hurricane Brad wrote...

Harbinger tried to kill him when he was rushing the beam because he was a threat.  Just because he would prefer to take Shepard alive doesn't mean he would risk letting his most dangerous foe get to the superweapon that could potentially defeat the reapers.  I see no reason why he wouldn't make an indoctrination attempt while Shepard is unconscious as Shepard is no longer a threat and his unconscious mind should be more vulnerable.  It would be safer to just kill him, but I'm sure Harbinger is more than a little overconfident since Shepard is seemingly helpless.  For whatever reason he has always wanted Shepard alive if possible.  Also as far as we know Shepard has never before faced an indoctrination attempt, he has never been shown to struggle with this previously so I don't know what you mean by Harbinger attempting it "one last time."

I didn't say you should take my interpretation as fact, it is just a theory afterall.  We won't know if it's true or not until Bioware actually says something about it or releases new ending content.  Look at the evidence and draw your own conclusions, there is a lot of it that suggests that what happens to Shepard after the reaper beam is not reality.

If you are going to argue against the theory however you should at least understand the basics of it.  As far as I've seen, everybody in this thread who agrees at all with the indoctrination theory rejects the scene with the catalyst kid as being part of the indoctrination attempt.  It is in Shepard's head and if he attempts to destroy the reapers in his head it obviously doesn't mean they are destroyed in reality.  It just means that he has fought off the indoctrination attempt, which is why it shows him draw breath while lying in the rubble in London.  He can then hopefully get up and attempt to complete his mission. 

Your not getting it friend.

1 second before, Harby was bent on killing everbody.

the next second, when he has the perfect opportunity to deal the killing blow, he changes his mind?

Seriously that just would not work well in fictions.

Its like one of those villians that talk and talk and wasted their element of surprise by constantly talking when they could've just stabs the protagonist to death.

It is cliche, granted.  I think it's realistic in this case though given Harbinger's interest in Shepard, Shepard's apparent helplessness and the arrogance that the reapers continually display.

[netarchy]

killnoob wrote...

Which is why i said you can believe whatever you want as long as you don't start treating it as fact like some of the people do here and everywhere else.

I camp because I have time, and if I have time why not?

Suddenly I have the urge to make some popcorn...

[Nogthwai]

They're probably not going to do give up on the ME-IP (and the story Pre-Shepard is neraly fully fleshed out) so the only possible canon ending is destroying the reapers and waking in up in the rubble as Shepard .

[killnoob]

TheRealQueen wrote...


I don't think Harbinger changed his mind. I don't think his intention was to kill Shepard in the first place. If his intention was to kill him in the first place, I think Shepard would be dead. As you said, it's a "deathly laser". I mean, you are running straight at the conduit, it's an easy shot. It also appears as if you are hit dead on, but I can't be sure as it fades to white so we don't see Shepard actually getting hit. You insist that Harbinger wants Shepard dead, and yet, Harbinger doesn't kill him/her. If he really wanted Shepard dead, as you insist, wouldn't he shoot Shepard again, just to make sure?

I understand that you don't want to fully accept that Harbinger would indoctrinate Shepard. I also understand that you don't want us saying that this theory is fact, because it is in fact a theory, thus isn't fact. But I would like to also say that there is lots of evidence that Harbinger doesn't want Shepard dead, either. Neither position is concrete.

Also, I feel it should be noted that the blasts are random, sometimes aimed at something, sometimes not. At points it takes out a person, at another time it shoots a pile of rubble. It's a machine, it should be more accurate than that if it's truly intent on killing all of the forces. That's just how I see it.

I've explained it before, everything is situational.

Harby wants Shepard alive before because reapers don't know about crucible
When they find out they got scared enough to move the citadel to earth where they could protect it
And when people start running towards the beam which teleport them to the citadel Harby goes into panic mode and shoots at everybody.

By your logic, you're basically saying

While the reapers are scared enough to relocated the citadel,

Harby still gives Shepard a chance to use the crucible, because he doesn't shoot him dead,
and when he has the perfect chance to remove this obstacle once and for all he still tries to indoctrinate him.

Can you help me understand why that make sense to you?

[Noob451]

Hurricane Brad wrote...

killnoob wrote...

Hurricane Brad wrote...

Harbinger tried to kill him when he was rushing the beam because he was a threat.  Just because he would prefer to take Shepard alive doesn't mean he would risk letting his most dangerous foe get to the superweapon that could potentially defeat the reapers.  I see no reason why he wouldn't make an indoctrination attempt while Shepard is unconscious as Shepard is no longer a threat and his unconscious mind should be more vulnerable.  It would be safer to just kill him, but I'm sure Harbinger is more than a little overconfident since Shepard is seemingly helpless.  For whatever reason he has always wanted Shepard alive if possible.  Also as far as we know Shepard has never before faced an indoctrination attempt, he has never been shown to struggle with this previously so I don't know what you mean by Harbinger attempting it "one last time."

I didn't say you should take my interpretation as fact, it is just a theory afterall.  We won't know if it's true or not until Bioware actually says something about it or releases new ending content.  Look at the evidence and draw your own conclusions, there is a lot of it that suggests that what happens to Shepard after the reaper beam is not reality.

If you are going to argue against the theory however you should at least understand the basics of it.  As far as I've seen, everybody in this thread who agrees at all with the indoctrination theory rejects the scene with the catalyst kid as being part of the indoctrination attempt.  It is in Shepard's head and if he attempts to destroy the reapers in his head it obviously doesn't mean they are destroyed in reality.  It just means that he has fought off the indoctrination attempt, which is why it shows him draw breath while lying in the rubble in London.  He can then hopefully get up and attempt to complete his mission. 

Your not getting it friend.

1 second before, Harby was bent on killing everbody.

the next second, when he has the perfect opportunity to deal the killing blow, he changes his mind?

Seriously that just would not work well in fictions.

Its like one of those villians that talk and talk and wasted their element of surprise by constantly talking when they could've just stabs the protagonist to death.

It is cliche, granted.  I think it's realistic in this case though given Harbinger's interest in Shepard, Shepard's apparent helplessness and the arrogance that the reapers continually display.

they are pretty darn arrogant, arent they?

[Hamskillet]

killnoob wrote...
IF you actually follow the thread you will discover there are plenty of evidence against the hallucination theory.

But hey as long as you don't start telling everyone it's fact you can believe whatever the hell you want.

I for one believe stargazer made Shepard up.

I would bet good money that Stargazer definately did not make Shepard up. Stargazer is on the planet that the Normandy crashed on. Stargazer is a descendant of the Normandy crew (my guess is Joker) and the crew has verbally passed on Shepards tale over the years.

[killnoob]

Hamskillet wrote...

killnoob wrote...
IF you actually follow the thread you will discover there are plenty of evidence against the hallucination theory.

But hey as long as you don't start telling everyone it's fact you can believe whatever the hell you want.

I for one believe stargazer made Shepard up.

I would bet good money that Stargazer definately did not make Shepard up. Stargazer is on the planet that the Normandy crashed on. Stargazer is a descendant of the Normandy crew (my guess is Joker) and the crew has verbally passed on Shepards tale over the years.

And how do you know that?

[Noob451]

Hamskillet wrote...

killnoob wrote...
IF you actually follow the thread you will discover there are plenty of evidence against the hallucination theory.

But hey as long as you don't start telling everyone it's fact you can believe whatever the hell you want.

I for one believe stargazer made Shepard up.

I would bet good money that Stargazer definately did not make Shepard up. Stargazer is on the planet that the Normandy crashed on. Stargazer is a descendant of the Normandy crew (my guess is Joker) and the crew has verbally passed on Shepards tale over the years.

who did joker have children with?  the love of his life was an AI in a robot body.

[Elanor]

Hamskillet wrote...

killnoob wrote...
IF you actually follow the thread you will discover there are plenty of evidence against the hallucination theory.

But hey as long as you don't start telling everyone it's fact you can believe whatever the hell you want.

I for one believe stargazer made Shepard up.

I would bet good money that Stargazer definately did not make Shepard up. Stargazer is on the planet that the Normandy crashed on. Stargazer is a descendant of the Normandy crew (my guess is Joker) and the crew has verbally passed on Shepards tale over the years.

I don't think so...

[killnoob]

Hurricane Brad wrote...

killnoob wrote...

Hurricane Brad wrote...

Harbinger tried to kill him when he was rushing the beam because he was a threat.  Just because he would prefer to take Shepard alive doesn't mean he would risk letting his most dangerous foe get to the superweapon that could potentially defeat the reapers.  I see no reason why he wouldn't make an indoctrination attempt while Shepard is unconscious as Shepard is no longer a threat and his unconscious mind should be more vulnerable.  It would be safer to just kill him, but I'm sure Harbinger is more than a little overconfident since Shepard is seemingly helpless.  For whatever reason he has always wanted Shepard alive if possible.  Also as far as we know Shepard has never before faced an indoctrination attempt, he has never been shown to struggle with this previously so I don't know what you mean by Harbinger attempting it "one last time."

I didn't say you should take my interpretation as fact, it is just a theory afterall.  We won't know if it's true or not until Bioware actually says something about it or releases new ending content.  Look at the evidence and draw your own conclusions, there is a lot of it that suggests that what happens to Shepard after the reaper beam is not reality.

If you are going to argue against the theory however you should at least understand the basics of it.  As far as I've seen, everybody in this thread who agrees at all with the indoctrination theory rejects the scene with the catalyst kid as being part of the indoctrination attempt.  It is in Shepard's head and if he attempts to destroy the reapers in his head it obviously doesn't mean they are destroyed in reality.  It just means that he has fought off the indoctrination attempt, which is why it shows him draw breath while lying in the rubble in London.  He can then hopefully get up and attempt to complete his mission. 

Your not getting it friend.

1 second before, Harby was bent on killing everbody.

the next second, when he has the perfect opportunity to deal the killing blow, he changes his mind?

Seriously that just would not work well in fictions.

Its like one of those villians that talk and talk and wasted their element of surprise by constantly talking when they could've just stabs the protagonist to death.

It is cliche, granted.  I think it's realistic in this case though given Harbinger's interest in Shepard, Shepard's apparent helplessness and the arrogance that the reapers continually display.

Yet, they're scared enough to relocate the citadel where most of them are, where  they could protect it.
Sure they're arrogant, but they sure as hell aren't arrogant enough to bet their existence on the line.

[lex0r11]

Noob451 wrote...

Hamskillet wrote...

killnoob wrote...
IF you actually follow the thread you will discover there are plenty of evidence against the hallucination theory.

But hey as long as you don't start telling everyone it's fact you can believe whatever the hell you want.

I for one believe stargazer made Shepard up.

I would bet good money that Stargazer definately did not make Shepard up. Stargazer is on the planet that the Normandy crashed on. Stargazer is a descendant of the Normandy crew (my guess is Joker) and the crew has verbally passed on Shepards tale over the years.

who did joker have children with?  the love of his life was an AI in a robot body.

now we are taking the crash landing seriously? please dont do that. :/

[killnoob]

lex0r11 wrote...

Noob451 wrote...

Hamskillet wrote...

killnoob wrote...
IF you actually follow the thread you will discover there are plenty of evidence against the hallucination theory.

But hey as long as you don't start telling everyone it's fact you can believe whatever the hell you want.

I for one believe stargazer made Shepard up.

I would bet good money that Stargazer definately did not make Shepard up. Stargazer is on the planet that the Normandy crashed on. Stargazer is a descendant of the Normandy crew (my guess is Joker) and the crew has verbally passed on Shepards tale over the years.

who did joker have children with?  the love of his life was an AI in a robot body.

now we are taking the crash landing seriously? please dont do that. :/

+1

[Debi-Tage]

killnoob wrote...

Hurricane Brad wrote...

Harbinger tried to kill him when he was rushing the beam because he was a threat.  Just because he would prefer to take Shepard alive doesn't mean he would risk letting his most dangerous foe get to the superweapon that could potentially defeat the reapers.  I see no reason why he wouldn't make an indoctrination attempt while Shepard is unconscious as Shepard is no longer a threat and his unconscious mind should be more vulnerable.  It would be safer to just kill him, but I'm sure Harbinger is more than a little overconfident since Shepard is seemingly helpless.  For whatever reason he has always wanted Shepard alive if possible.  Also as far as we know Shepard has never before faced an indoctrination attempt, he has never been shown to struggle with this previously so I don't know what you mean by Harbinger attempting it "one last time."

I didn't say you should take my interpretation as fact, it is just a theory afterall.  We won't know if it's true or not until Bioware actually says something about it or releases new ending content.  Look at the evidence and draw your own conclusions, there is a lot of it that suggests that what happens to Shepard after the reaper beam is not reality.

If you are going to argue against the theory however you should at least understand the basics of it.  As far as I've seen, everybody in this thread who agrees at all with the indoctrination theory rejects the scene with the catalyst kid as being part of the indoctrination attempt.  It is in Shepard's head and if he attempts to destroy the reapers in his head it obviously doesn't mean they are destroyed in reality.  It just means that he has fought off the indoctrination attempt, which is why it shows him draw breath while lying in the rubble in London.  He can then hopefully get up and attempt to complete his mission. 

Your not getting it friend.

1 second before, Harby was bent on killing everbody.

the next second, when he has the perfect opportunity to deal the killing blow, he changes his mind?

Seriously that just would not work well in fictions.

Its like one of those villians that talk and talk and wasted their element of surprise by constantly talking when they could've just stabs the protagonist to death.

For some reason Harby obviously wants Shepard alive. That has already been established in the last 400 pages through various lines of evidence. I will not rehash them here because the OPs of those posts state them more elloquently than I can restate right now.

Secondly,  I know you are hung up on the cinematics but what if those are what actually following the "real" ending. For instance, whatever choice you made, let's say destroy, then you are waking up in the rubble - FILL IN THE BLANK (future DLC, unlocks, whatever) then FAST FORWARD to the very end of the game - perhaps whatever is released will tie it all together? Suppose what you are seeing is not a linear progression but the true end story is what is missing in between.

[Hurricane Brad]

Noob451 wrote...

they are pretty darn arrogant, arent they?

And with good reason!  I'd be arrogant too if I had their abilities and track record.

[blooregard]

Zealuu wrote...

Surely someone as advanced as the Reapers can "set phasers to stun", right?

their "stun" feature must be pretty ****ing crazy to have blasted most of shepard's armor off


IMO if the indoctronation theory is true I imagine harbinger intentionally missed shepard with the intent on indoctronating him

[acManic]

Some people talked about the ending being a dream or something similar because a lot of things were contrived from other events. Like the hall right before you get to the console with TIM/Anderson, it looks like some of the inside of the Shadow Broker's base and you can get TIM to kill himself the same way and for the same reason as Saren. And I just noticed that in the beginning when the initial attack from the reapers on Earth starts, you're knocked out and are woken up by Anderson similarly to the way he contacts you after you make it through the beam to the citadel. Though I might just be looking for whatever to keep proving this point to myself lol.

[noobcannon]

killnoob wrote...

Hurricane Brad wrote...

Harbinger tried to kill him when he was rushing the beam because he was a threat.  Just because he would prefer to take Shepard alive doesn't mean he would risk letting his most dangerous foe get to the superweapon that could potentially defeat the reapers.  I see no reason why he wouldn't make an indoctrination attempt while Shepard is unconscious as Shepard is no longer a threat and his unconscious mind should be more vulnerable.  It would be safer to just kill him, but I'm sure Harbinger is more than a little overconfident since Shepard is seemingly helpless.  For whatever reason he has always wanted Shepard alive if possible.  Also as far as we know Shepard has never before faced an indoctrination attempt, he has never been shown to struggle with this previously so I don't know what you mean by Harbinger attempting it "one last time."

I didn't say you should take my interpretation as fact, it is just a theory afterall.  We won't know if it's true or not until Bioware actually says something about it or releases new ending content.  Look at the evidence and draw your own conclusions, there is a lot of it that suggests that what happens to Shepard after the reaper beam is not reality.

If you are going to argue against the theory however you should at least understand the basics of it.  As far as I've seen, everybody in this thread who agrees at all with the indoctrination theory rejects the scene with the catalyst kid as being part of the indoctrination attempt.  It is in Shepard's head and if he attempts to destroy the reapers in his head it obviously doesn't mean they are destroyed in reality.  It just means that he has fought off the indoctrination attempt, which is why it shows him draw breath while lying in the rubble in London.  He can then hopefully get up and attempt to complete his mission. 

Your not getting it friend.

1 second before, Harby was bent on killing everbody.

the next second, when he has the perfect opportunity to deal the killing blow, he changes his mind?

Seriously that just would not work well in fictions.

Its like one of those villians that talk and talk and wasted their element of surprise by constantly talking when they could've just stabs the protagonist to death.

i understand what you're saying but my impression of harbinger the entire trilogy has been that he is overconfident and i wouldn't surprised if that is what leads to the fall of the reapers. he has underestimated shepard the whole way and now he has him lying in rubble unconcious and he wants to see the mind of the one that has defied them for so long.

even if he kills shepard they still have to fight the massive army he accumilated, and perhaps indoctrinating shepard and turning him against his friends would benefit the reapers? all just speculating of course.

[Elenterx]

Pepper your angus guys, It's uploading.
will be available here soon.



It takes a while for the 720 version to process tho so quality might not be good at first.

[lex0r11]

killnoob wrote...

Hurricane Brad wrote...

killnoob wrote...

Hurricane Brad wrote...

Harbinger tried to kill him when he was rushing the beam because he was a threat.  Just because he would prefer to take Shepard alive doesn't mean he would risk letting his most dangerous foe get to the superweapon that could potentially defeat the reapers.  I see no reason why he wouldn't make an indoctrination attempt while Shepard is unconscious as Shepard is no longer a threat and his unconscious mind should be more vulnerable.  It would be safer to just kill him, but I'm sure Harbinger is more than a little overconfident since Shepard is seemingly helpless.  For whatever reason he has always wanted Shepard alive if possible.  Also as far as we know Shepard has never before faced an indoctrination attempt, he has never been shown to struggle with this previously so I don't know what you mean by Harbinger attempting it "one last time."

I didn't say you should take my interpretation as fact, it is just a theory afterall.  We won't know if it's true or not until Bioware actually says something about it or releases new ending content.  Look at the evidence and draw your own conclusions, there is a lot of it that suggests that what happens to Shepard after the reaper beam is not reality.

If you are going to argue against the theory however you should at least understand the basics of it.  As far as I've seen, everybody in this thread who agrees at all with the indoctrination theory rejects the scene with the catalyst kid as being part of the indoctrination attempt.  It is in Shepard's head and if he attempts to destroy the reapers in his head it obviously doesn't mean they are destroyed in reality.  It just means that he has fought off the indoctrination attempt, which is why it shows him draw breath while lying in the rubble in London.  He can then hopefully get up and attempt to complete his mission. 

Your not getting it friend.

1 second before, Harby was bent on killing everbody.

the next second, when he has the perfect opportunity to deal the killing blow, he changes his mind?

Seriously that just would not work well in fictions.

Its like one of those villians that talk and talk and wasted their element of surprise by constantly talking when they could've just stabs the protagonist to death.

It is cliche, granted.  I think it's realistic in this case though given Harbinger's interest in Shepard, Shepard's apparent helplessness and the arrogance that the reapers continually display.

Yet, they're scared enough to relocate the citadel where most of them are, where  they could protect it.
Sure they're arrogant, but they sure as hell aren't arrogant enough to bet their existence on the line.

i think it really doesn't matter what we think the reapers would do, we had like 10 possible motivations. we should find evidence elswhere.
you said it yourself killnoob, they see themself as 'incomprehensible'.

[Turran]

killnoob wrote...

Yet, they're scared enough to relocate the citadel where most of them are, where  they could protect it.
Sure they're arrogant, but they sure as hell aren't arrogant enough to bet their existence on the line.

I know you are probably bored, but why are you so set on going against this whole theory?
You may be against it, and I am sure we are sorry if it offends you, but you can't just leave the people who believe or want to believe this theory alone?

You seem set on causing an argument, or trying to disprove it.

[Hamskillet]

Noob451 wrote...

Hamskillet wrote...

killnoob wrote...
IF you actually follow the thread you will discover there are plenty of evidence against the hallucination theory.

But hey as long as you don't start telling everyone it's fact you can believe whatever the hell you want.

I for one believe stargazer made Shepard up.

I would bet good money that Stargazer definately did not make Shepard up. Stargazer is on the planet that the Normandy crashed on. Stargazer is a descendant of the Normandy crew (my guess is Joker) and the crew has verbally passed on Shepards tale over the years.

who did joker have children with?  the love of his life was an AI in a robot body.

Well if you chose the Synthesis ending you combine organic and synthetic. In the end movie I saw both EDI and Joker have green glowing circuts all over their skin. Also if 3 squade mates can survive the crash why not other members of the crew? And maybe they are not the only life on that planet.

Either I have not more proof than anyone else does for their Theory ;p

[Mallissin]

killnoob wrote...

Nah seriously though,

If you can explain to me, with a clear, obvious answer as to why Harbringer would suddenly change his mind and decide to indoctrinate Shepard after knocking him out with a "deathly laser' that is supposed to be used for killing, then I'm all for the indoctrination theory.

Otherwise,

I'll just stick to my own theory that Shepard doesn't exist and is merely a fictional character created by the Stargazer in order to entertain his grand son.

So, what you're saying is... the Stargazer created the Reapers.

Do we get to kill him in the real ending DLC?

What kind of powers does he have? Will I need Overload or Warp?

[Fledgey]

Turran wrote...

killnoob wrote...

Yet, they're scared enough to relocate the citadel where most of them are, where  they could protect it.
Sure they're arrogant, but they sure as hell aren't arrogant enough to bet their existence on the line.

I know you are probably bored, but why are you so set on going against this whole theory?
You may be against it, and I am sure we are sorry if it offends you, but you can't just leave the people who believe or want to believe this theory alone?

You seem set on causing an argument, or trying to disprove it.

It's the same reason militant atheists start arguments with the religious. They see themselves as much more educated and logical and reasoning so they feel the need to impose that on others. (I am an atheist and I think it's really distasteful when other atheists do this.)

[noobcannon]

Hamskillet wrote...

Noob451 wrote...

Hamskillet wrote...

killnoob wrote...
IF you actually follow the thread you will discover there are plenty of evidence against the hallucination theory.

But hey as long as you don't start telling everyone it's fact you can believe whatever the hell you want.

I for one believe stargazer made Shepard up.

I would bet good money that Stargazer definately did not make Shepard up. Stargazer is on the planet that the Normandy crashed on. Stargazer is a descendant of the Normandy crew (my guess is Joker) and the crew has verbally passed on Shepards tale over the years.

who did joker have children with?  the love of his life was an AI in a robot body.

Well if you chose the Synthesis ending you combine organic and synthetic. In the end movie I saw both EDI and Joker have green glowing circuts all over their skin. Also if 3 squade mates can survive the crash why not other members of the crew? And maybe they are not the only life on that planet.

Either I have not more proof than anyone else does for their Theory ;p

i think saren chose the synthesis option and illusive man chose control when they were indoctrinated. now you (shepard) gets to choose...

[Elenterx]

Y U TAKE SO LONG YOUTUBE?