57139 réponses à ce sujet

[GBGriffin]

Raveyn wrote...

So here's another small log on this fire.

Depending on how you played ME1, you could convince Saren that he's indoctrinated. The result? He kills himself to be free.

Depending on how you played ME3, You can convince the Illusive Man that he's indoctrinated. The result? He kills himself to be free.

For the Destroy option, Shepard is told that he can break the cycle, but it will kill him in the process. The result? 

I need to stop obsessing over this thread because it raises my hopes even more. I really do.

I'd say I actually have the motivation to play the games again. Again, I think they'll either confirm this or deny it, and if they deny it, it makes for MUCH better headcanon than I had before.

Again, to quote myself from earlier, I'd love to hear from people who think this isn't possible by refuting the claims, not just by saying it isn't true. I really would like to hear both sides of this, but I think think this theory holds the most weight out of the others floating around.

Modifié par GBGriffin, 11 mars 2012 - 06:08 .

[krystalevenstar]

GBGriffin wrote...

I need to stop obsessing over this thread because it raises my hopes even more. I really do.

Tell me about it. I've been on this thread 90% of the day @_@

[overburning]

Honestly, even if nothing comes out of this, there's enough ambiguity in the whole ending for my headcanon to fix things up, thanks guys for giving me motivation to play ME3 again!

[oh_saki]

Well if Shepard really does get knocked out after being hit with the laser on Earth, then everything afterwards really doesn't matter, whether you chose Synthesis, control, or destruction. Personally, I chose synthesis, then reloaded my last autosave and chose destruction to see if the endings were any different.

Remember, even though the 'destruction' ending seems to be the only one to show Shepard alive at the end, assuming he was knocked out after the Reaper blast on Earth, if it was all a dream he should be alive whether he chose synthesis or control too. And the starkid says himself that Shepard is part synthetic, which he is. Early in the game Dr Chakwas evaluates the tech that Cerberus installed in Shep to make sure everything is working. Theoretically, if Shep decides to destroy synthetic life, he shouldn't have survived as all the tech that's been placed in him and is allowing him to live should have failed.

Right?

So here's my theory, which may have already been posted because this is a long thread and I only read about 5-6 pages of it. Shep gets knocked out from the blast on Earth. His dream of beaming up to the Citadel and everything is him trying to fight Reaper indoc. If Shep chooses control or synthesis, he essentially becomes indoctrinated and game over. If he chooses destruction, he frees his mind from indoc and wakes up on Earth. The whole breathing scene must mean that he got knocked out after the Reaper blast and is just waking up. The only way you get the scene is if you choose destruction, but if destruction was real, Shep should have died because if he killed all synthetics, he would have killed himself.

[littleork]

GBGriffin wrote...

Raveyn wrote...

So here's another small log on this fire.

Depending on how you played ME1, you could convince Saren that he's indoctrinated. The result? He kills himself to be free.

Depending on how you played ME3, You can convince the Illusive Man that he's indoctrinated. The result? He kills himself to be free.

For the Destroy option, Shepard is told that he can break the cycle, but it will kill him in the process. The result? 

I need to stop obsessing over this thread because it raises my hopes even more. I really do.

I'd say I actually have the motivation to play the games again. Again, I think they'll either confirm this or deny it, and if they deny it, it makes for MUCH better headcanon than I had before.

Again, to quote myself from earlier, I'd love to hear from people who think this isn't possibly by refuting the claims, not just by saying it isn't true. I really would like to hear both sides of this, but I think think this theory holds the most weight out of the others floating around.

I have been wondering... is there any other theory really floating around? at least with people agreeing on it as much? Seems that most people are just complaining. I would rather theorize on this than complain . But it would be nice to know indeed.

[lookingglassmind]

@ GBG: Search Kloborgg711's posts in this thread. S/he makes some very good, anchoring points against this theory. Namely invoking real-world problems to get the points across (ie: BioWare's role as a capitalist company, etc).

[Deltateam Elcor]

Ive explained it several times, near death experience down to the letter.

[GBGriffin]

lookingglassmind wrote...

@ GBG: Search Kloborgg711's posts in this thread. S/he makes some very good, anchoring points against this theory. Namely invoking real-world problems to get the points across (ie: BioWare's role as a capitalist company, etc).

Thanks. I will...right after I finish my ME2 playthrough that I finally found a reason to play again, if only temporarily

[littleork]

oh_saki wrote...

Well if Shepard really does get knocked out after being hit with the laser on Earth, then everything afterwards really doesn't matter, whether you chose Synthesis, control, or destruction. Personally, I chose synthesis, then reloaded my last autosave and chose destruction to see if the endings were any different.

Remember, even though the 'destruction' ending seems to be the only one to show Shepard alive at the end, assuming he was knocked out after the Reaper blast on Earth, if it was all a dream he should be alive whether he chose synthesis or control too. And the starkid says himself that Shepard is part synthetic, which he is. Early in the game Dr Chakwas evaluates the tech that Cerberus installed in Shep to make sure everything is working. Theoretically, if Shep decides to destroy synthetic life, he shouldn't have survived as all the tech that's been placed in him and is allowing him to live should have failed.

Right?

So here's my theory, which may have already been posted because this is a long thread and I only read about 5-6 pages of it. Shep gets knocked out from the blast on Earth. His dream of beaming up to the Citadel and everything is him trying to fight Reaper indoc. If Shep chooses control or synthesis, he essentially becomes indoctrinated and game over. If he chooses destruction, he frees his mind from indoc and wakes up on Earth. The whole breathing scene must mean that he got knocked out after the Reaper blast and is just waking up. The only way you get the scene is if you choose destruction, but if destruction was real, Shep should have died because if he killed all synthetics, he would have killed himself.

That is what i think, that the 2 other options are shepard giving up while the destroy options is her  keeping her resolve.

[Elenterx]

k so I watched it again, I'm really sure I'm just seeing things. Maybe just trying to grasp onto any hope whatsoever but here's what the boy looks like when your talking to him normally.


And when you make your decision and he fades away.


Probably just the animation or w/e but he looks evil as **** right there.

[TamiBx]

krystalevenstar wrote...

GBGriffin wrote...

I need to stop obsessing over this thread because it raises my hopes even more. I really do.

Tell me about it. I've been on this thread 90% of the day @_@

Me too. And this is like raising my expectations and if Bioware doesn't announce anything, I will feel more depressed than ever...

Also, this thread is making me paranoid. 

[rogueagent6]

lookingglassmind wrote...

 Which brings an interesting thought: I should have brought EDI on that mission, just to potentially rule out the possibility of her being indoctrinated/impregnated with indoctrinating tech or code.

The VI doesn't complain about her presence once you reach TIM's office, but I can't remember if he mentions anything about indoctrination before or after the fight with Kai.

[krystalevenstar]

There's too much evidence supporting this now. Bioware isn't new to this game (in terms of the 'game' of being in the industry, or the game ME itself). I refuse to believe they would throw that much time, energy, blood, sweat and tears into this product to end it like this. It's not their style. This is their magnum opus, that's ending on an airhorn in the midst of the symphony. It smells too fishy.

[Ainyan42]

In ME1, Vigil talks about sleeper agents placed by the Reapers - Protheans who were indoctrinated but left behind, and clearly normal enough that other Protheans took them in as refugees, at which point the indoctrinated agents betrayed their saviors to the Reapers. What's to stop Cerberus from having laid the groundwork when rebuilding Shepard to be an indoctrinated Sleeper agent, and the "ending" is a visualization of Shepard's own internal battle against Harbinger when he tries to activate her indoctrination protocol?

[lookingglassmind]

oh_saki wrote...

Well if Shepard really does get knocked out after being hit with the laser on Earth, then everything afterwards really doesn't matter, whether you chose Synthesis, control, or destruction. Personally, I chose synthesis, then reloaded my last autosave and chose destruction to see if the endings were any different.

Remember, even though the 'destruction' ending seems to be the only one to show Shepard alive at the end, assuming he was knocked out after the Reaper blast on Earth, if it was all a dream he should be alive whether he chose synthesis or control too. And the starkid says himself that Shepard is part synthetic, which he is. Early in the game Dr Chakwas evaluates the tech that Cerberus installed in Shep to make sure everything is working. Theoretically, if Shep decides to destroy synthetic life, he shouldn't have survived as all the tech that's been placed in him and is allowing him to live should have failed.

Right?

So here's my theory, which may have already been posted because this is a long thread and I only read about 5-6 pages of it. Shep gets knocked out from the blast on Earth. His dream of beaming up to the Citadel and everything is him trying to fight Reaper indoc. If Shep chooses control or synthesis, he essentially becomes indoctrinated and game over. If he chooses destruction, he frees his mind from indoc and wakes up on Earth. The whole breathing scene must mean that he got knocked out after the Reaper blast and is just waking up. The only way you get the scene is if you choose destruction, but if destruction was real, Shep should have died because if he killed all synthetics, he would have killed himself.

Good thoughts. However, the whole "if destruction was real, then Shepard himself would have died due to being partially synthetic" can be countered by a number of things. Namely, the Catalyst could have been lying to Shepard, trying to disuade him of Destroying. Or, Shepard could have died regardless, even if s/he is shown breathing at the end. We don't know if Shepard lives past that breath.

Or, the part of Shepard that was synthetic may have been destroyed, but the organic part of her/him lived. Doubtful s/he is going to last very long in that state, but who knows.

But it is a very good good theory. And it's a hellish one. I can't really counter it, not very well. Not without knowing that Destroy truly does kill all synthetics.

[Deltateam Elcor]

Ainyan42 wrote...

In ME1, Vigil talks about sleeper agents placed by the Reapers - Protheans who were indoctrinated but left behind, and clearly normal enough that other Protheans took them in as refugees, at which point the indoctrinated agents betrayed their saviors to the Reapers. What's to stop Cerberus from having laid the groundwork when rebuilding Shepard to be an indoctrinated Sleeper agent, and the "ending" is a visualization of Shepard's own internal battle against Harbinger when he tries to activate her indoctrination protocol?

Nothing probably, which would tie in perfectly to an omega DLC to get rid of one of last bases, though how they go around dealing with the ending first, id prefer it to be free.

Would there be a DLC for the Collector base though if you saved it?

Doubt it, but it leaves a plothole.

Modifié par Deltateam Elcor, 11 mars 2012 - 06:16 .

[littleork]

Ainyan42 wrote...

In ME1, Vigil talks about sleeper agents placed by the Reapers - Protheans who were indoctrinated but left behind, and clearly normal enough that other Protheans took them in as refugees, at which point the indoctrinated agents betrayed their saviors to the Reapers. What's to stop Cerberus from having laid the groundwork when rebuilding Shepard to be an indoctrinated Sleeper agent, and the "ending" is a visualization of Shepard's own internal battle against Harbinger when he tries to activate her indoctrination protocol?

OMG I love this, even if cerberus looked like against the reaper in the 2nd, we know that they were probably not, they always hided things from us.

[krystalevenstar]

Elenterx wrote...

k so I watched it again, I'm really sure I'm just seeing things. Maybe just trying to grasp onto any hope whatsoever but here's what the boy looks like when your talking to him normally.


And when you make your decision and he fades away.


Probably just the animation or w/e but he looks evil as **** right there.

That's kinda weird but I think he's just looking down because he's still there when you go to make your choice. I shot at him a bunch to no avail, and eventually ran out of time and got the 'The Crucible was destroyed' critical mission failure. I -did- notice that upon the auto reload at the point you make your final choice, the child was gone. However I figured it was just a glitch and that he was supposed to be there since I had Tali disappear during a convo earlier in the game.

[JayneD]

The whole "internal battle" makes sense to me, that you have to fight indoctrination. Shepard has been in to many situations where reapers could have had an affect on them.

Also, it kinda makes sense to me that BioWare could put off the "real" ending until all regions have received a release, although it seems very shady.

I would really like some kind of offical stance on this one way or another.

At least on my second playthrough I didn't mess up my 2 game long romance with Liara for a fling with that damned Traynor...

[erlind0186]

I just spent the entire day reading this whole thread. I finished the game last night and been devestated ever since. I can't even look at my xbox anymore. I've been desperatley looking for hope and based on what I've seen here I've found what hope there may be. The hallucination/indoctrination theory sounds so right. So much seems to support it. I was becoming so heartbroken over it, I overlooked a lot of the details I've heard here. It just CAN'T be coincidence that the rest of the game is perfect up to that point. Thank you all for your diligence and constant scanning. It's given me hope.

[rogueagent6]

lookingglassmind wrote...

We don't know if Shepard lives past that breath.

Knowing BioWare, I'd think it's safe to assume that it's not his/her last breath. Unfortunately that is an ASSumption, and we all know how those usually turn out. Which would cement BW's Epic Cyber Wasteland Troll of Our Age status.

[oh_saki]

lookingglassmind wrote...

oh_saki wrote...

Well if Shepard really does get knocked out after being hit with the laser on Earth, then everything afterwards really doesn't matter, whether you chose Synthesis, control, or destruction. Personally, I chose synthesis, then reloaded my last autosave and chose destruction to see if the endings were any different.

Remember, even though the 'destruction' ending seems to be the only one to show Shepard alive at the end, assuming he was knocked out after the Reaper blast on Earth, if it was all a dream he should be alive whether he chose synthesis or control too. And the starkid says himself that Shepard is part synthetic, which he is. Early in the game Dr Chakwas evaluates the tech that Cerberus installed in Shep to make sure everything is working. Theoretically, if Shep decides to destroy synthetic life, he shouldn't have survived as all the tech that's been placed in him and is allowing him to live should have failed.

Right?

So here's my theory, which may have already been posted because this is a long thread and I only read about 5-6 pages of it. Shep gets knocked out from the blast on Earth. His dream of beaming up to the Citadel and everything is him trying to fight Reaper indoc. If Shep chooses control or synthesis, he essentially becomes indoctrinated and game over. If he chooses destruction, he frees his mind from indoc and wakes up on Earth. The whole breathing scene must mean that he got knocked out after the Reaper blast and is just waking up. The only way you get the scene is if you choose destruction, but if destruction was real, Shep should have died because if he killed all synthetics, he would have killed himself.

Good thoughts. However, the whole "if destruction was real, then Shepard himself would have died due to being partially synthetic" can be countered by a number of things. Namely, the Catalyst could have been lying to Shepard, trying to disuade him of Destroying. Or, Shepard could have died regardless, even if s/he is shown breathing at the end. We don't know if Shepard lives past that breath.

Or, the part of Shepard that was synthetic may have been destroyed, but the organic part of her/him lived. Doubtful s/he is going to last very long in that state, but who knows.

But it is a very good good theory. And it's a hellish one. I can't really counter it, not very well. Not without knowing that Destroy truly does kill all synthetics.

I like to think Bioware would tease us with a Shepard breath only to have him die immediately afterwards. But that's just my own opinion and I could be very wrong about that. And its true that Starkid could be lying, but the fact that Shep is part synthetic is brought up early in the game, as I said, after you recruit Chakwas and she gives you a medical exam to make sure the Cerberus implants are working. And I'm sure we all remember Cerberus bring Shep back to life in ME2, his entire spine looks like something that was ripped out of a Geth and installed into him. Further, many of the upgrades available in ME2 were things that improved Shepard's skin (skin and muscle weaves, etc). It's not an unknown fact to fans of the franchise that Shep is part synthetic.

[mupp3tz]

The thing that makes me believe the hallucination theory most was brought up during the first couple of pages, which was the following scene:

Sundance31us wrote...
Hackett: Shepard. Commander!
Shepard: I--What do you need me to do?
Hackett: Nothing's happening. The Crucible's not firing. It's got to be something on your end. Commander Shepard!
Shepard: I don't see--I'm not sure how to...<Shepard collapses>
Hackett: Commander!
<Citadel arms open>
:
:
<the rest you know>

Crucible isn't firing, Shepard collapses before he can do anything...then it's working?

To quote Milton Arbogast from Psycho (1960),"...if it doesn't gel, it isn't aspic, and this ain't gelling. It's not coming together, something's missing."

Perhaps this was when the hallucination period began.

Modifié par M U P P 3 T Z, 11 mars 2012 - 06:22 .

[Asiant]

Hallucination makes PERFECT SENSE...think about it, the only way Shepard lives is by destroying the reapers!! then Shepard ends up in some rubble on Earth...this scene is actually when harbinger blasted Shepard, Shepard now just wakes up from that nightware...thats why Shepard is surrounded by concrete rubble and not citadel tech tubes and walls.

[durasteel]

Maybe if they offer him a lot of money they could persuade Drew Karpyshyn to come back and fix it.