57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Priss Blackburne]

Okay after raging over the ending in a child like fashion I went through the ending again from the last save. I do believe now that it's a hallucination, too many things are different. the keeper paying attention to shepard striked me as odd this time as they don't pay attention to anyone.

[Terraforming2154]

This thread has been the one thing that got me through the disappointment of finishing the game late Friday, and made me happy going with my gut and chosing the Destroy ending (though I have seen people argue that ending is more about Renegade Shepard's need for self-preservation rather than sacrifice...an interpretation I disagree with entirely). I actually got goosebumps at a few of the suggestions you guys have been providing. Silly, I know, but I need more than what the game gave me.

But, while I think most of the points brought up are legitimately intriguing and too coincidental to be nothing, I'm struggling to get past the ending epilogue with the man talking to his grandchild. How would that fit into the theory? Would Shepard be dreaming of her own, for lack of a better word, self-deification (i.e. "the" Shepard)? Why would she see that? Sorry if I looked over a post that addressed this.

Modifié par Terraforming2154, 11 mars 2012 - 06:27 .

[rogueagent6]

Ainyan42 wrote...

In ME1, Vigil talks about sleeper agents placed by the Reapers - Protheans who were indoctrinated but left behind, and clearly normal enough that other Protheans took them in as refugees, at which point the indoctrinated agents betrayed their saviors to the Reapers. What's to stop Cerberus from having laid the groundwork when rebuilding Shepard to be an indoctrinated Sleeper agent, and the "ending" is a visualization of Shepard's own internal battle against Harbinger when he tries to activate her indoctrination protocol?

Yes, but Miranda gives no indication that anything out of the ordinary was used to reconstruct Shepard. I would think that if Reaper tech was used, TIM wouldn't have worried about her including a chip to control you given his knowledge of indoctrination and conversion.

[lookingglassmind]

rogueagent6 wrote...

lookingglassmind wrote...

We don't know if Shepard lives past that breath.

Knowing BioWare, I'd think it's safe to assume that it's not his/her last breath. Unfortunately that is an ASSumption, and we all know how those usually turn out. Which would cement BW's Epic Cyber Wasteland Troll of Our Age status.

I think you're probably right, actually. Even though BioWare said it was the end of Shepard's journey, I don't think they'd kill him/her off if the player resists indoctrination.

Damnit! Now I don't know where to take the theory. Because if Destroy was real, then I'd guess that Shepard would be more dead than alive. I don't know what sort of crux his organic side tosses into this whole problem, but I doubt it would save him/her. The organic side is already extremely compromised through injury by that time.

Unless Destroy doesn't kill all synthetics, and just kills the Reapers. But the fact that we don't see EDI on the Normandy if we choose to Destroy seems to speak against this (weakly).

[john v rambo]

In space without a helmet.. It had to of been some kind of dream or hallucination. Not to mention, we see the citadel explode... but if you beat the game with 5k or more war assets, we see that Shepard is still alive. There is no way he would have survived the explosion of the citadel and even if he somehow did the fall back to earth would kill him. It just doesn't make any sense.. So BW must be planning something. And yes I know Shepard has survived the explosion of a ship/the fall to a planet before... but as Jacob said "You were nothing but meat and tubes".

[lookingglassmind]

Terraforming2154 wrote...

This thread has been the one thing that got me through the disappointment of finishing the game late Friday. I actually got goosebumps at a few of the suggestions you guys have been providing. Silly, I know, but I need more than what the game gave me.

But, while I think most of the points brought up are legitimately intriguing and too coincidental to be nothing, I'm struggling to get past the ending epilogue with the man talking to his grandchild. How would that fit into the theory? Would Shepard be dreaming of her own, for lack of a better word, self-deification (i.e. "the" Shepard)? Why would she see that? Sorry if I looked over a post that addressed this.

I don't think that part is a hallucination. I think that part is real.

[Arturia Pendragon]

Ainyan42 wrote...

In ME1, Vigil talks about sleeper agents placed by the Reapers - Protheans who were indoctrinated but left behind, and clearly normal enough that other Protheans took them in as refugees, at which point the indoctrinated agents betrayed their saviors to the Reapers. What's to stop Cerberus from having laid the groundwork when rebuilding Shepard to be an indoctrinated Sleeper agent, and the "ending" is a visualization of Shepard's own internal battle against Harbinger when he tries to activate her indoctrination protocol?

What if the Prothean VI cannot detect indoctrination in a living corpse?

Shepard's body was rebuild from a charred/smashed/asphyxiated husk and implanted with cybernetics by Cerberus, which is overseen by an indoctrinated agent of the Reapers. Not to mention the fact that the Collectors were hellbent on recovering Shepard's corpse as well for unexplained reasons....

What if, and this is really stretching it, the Collectors attacked the SR1 and killed Shepard as part of a Xanatos Gambit to install a Manchurian Candidate-like agent? Having defeated Saren and Sovereign, Shepard would have been an ideal subject, given his/her celebrity status.... Harbinger may have even allowed Shepard to defeat the Collectors and destroy the Human Reaper in order to further his/her status within the Council species....

[krystalevenstar]

The Shepard breathing scene reminds me a lot about how you only get the ending where you see Master Chief go into cryo-stasis if you beat Halo 3 on Legendary, every other ending you assumed he was killed, and look now, they're making Halo 4 from that even though that was the definitive end to that series. Maybe they are teasing Mass Effect 4. I do hope they'd wrap this mess up before doing that though, somehow. Then again, E3 is only 3 months away...

[Ainyan42]

rogueagent6 wrote...

Ainyan42 wrote...

In ME1, Vigil talks about sleeper agents placed by the Reapers - Protheans who were indoctrinated but left behind, and clearly normal enough that other Protheans took them in as refugees, at which point the indoctrinated agents betrayed their saviors to the Reapers. What's to stop Cerberus from having laid the groundwork when rebuilding Shepard to be an indoctrinated Sleeper agent, and the "ending" is a visualization of Shepard's own internal battle against Harbinger when he tries to activate her indoctrination protocol?

Yes, but Miranda gives no indication that anything out of the ordinary was used to reconstruct Shepard. I would think that if Reaper tech was used, TIM wouldn't have worried about her including a chip to control you given his knowledge of indoctrination and conversion.

Miranda may not know. And of course TIM would have worried about a control chip - it would interfere with the core of what Shepard was. If they wanted her to be able to rejoin the Alliance at some point to act as a sleeper sabatoge agent, they wouldn't be able to risk anything that might show up as damning - but no one knows how the indoctrination cybernetics work (remember, in ME1 when Saren began having doubts, Harbinger had him loaded up with cybernetics until he succumbed), so it's quite possible that Miranda (and the Alliance doctors/scientists) wouldn't have been able to tell sleeper indoc tech from the advanced cybernetics used to revive Shepard.

[mupp3tz]

Terraforming2154 wrote...

This thread has been the one thing that got me through the disappointment of finishing the game late Friday. I actually got goosebumps at a few of the suggestions you guys have been providing. Silly, I know, but I need more than what the game gave me.

But, while I think most of the points brought up are legitimately intriguing and too coincidental to be nothing, I'm struggling to get past the ending epilogue with the man talking to his grandchild. How would that fit into the theory? Would Shepard be dreaming of her own, for lack of a better word, self-deification (i.e. "the" Shepard)? Why would she see that? Sorry if I looked over a post that addressed this.

Perhaps that scene is supposed to be an actual event in the future.  A narrarative device used to show that it's not the actual end, just yet.  The grandpa is telling the child about how "The Shepard" destroyed the Reapers and secured organic future.  The "one more story.." part could mean that there is a little bit more to Shepard's story.  Of course, it's been stated by the developers that this is the end of Shepard's story (but not the ME IP), but that doesn't completely rule out an epilogue of sorts for our Sheps.

Modifié par M U P P 3 T Z, 11 mars 2012 - 06:28 .

[Invisibilly]

john v rambo wrote...

In space without a helmet.. It had to of been some kind of dream or hallucination. Not to mention, we see the citadel explode... but if you beat the game with 5k or more war assets, we see that Shepard is still alive. There is no way he would have survived the explosion of the citadel and even if he somehow did the fall back to earth would kill him. It just doesn't make any sense.. So BW must be planning something. And yes I know Shepard has survived the explosion of a ship/the fall to a planet before... but as Jacob said "You were nothing but meat and tubes".

. 


Well you do hear wind blowing during that scene which means he/she is on earth

[rogueagent6]

Arturia Pendragon wrote...

What if, and this is really stretching it, the Collectors attacked the SR1 and killed Shepard as part of a Xanatos Gambit to install a Manchurian Candidate-like agent?

Harby states many times in ME2 that you've gained the attention of those infinitely more powerful than you.

Damn you!!!

[tenacious_err]

Terraforming2154 wrote...

This thread has been the one thing that got me through the disappointment of finishing the game late Friday. I actually got goosebumps at a few of the suggestions you guys have been providing. Silly, I know, but I need more than what the game gave me.

But, while I think most of the points brought up are legitimately intriguing and too coincidental to be nothing, I'm struggling to get past the ending epilogue with the man talking to his grandchild. How would that fit into the theory? Would Shepard be dreaming of her own, for lack of a better word, self-deification (i.e. "the" Shepard)? Why would she see that? Sorry if I looked over a post that addressed this.

If it is seen as part of the hallucination, then it can simply be seen as Shepard seeing that the world has moved on and she's been remembered. I think, too, that it helps that Shepard recently saw Liara's project of preserving her in case they lose. That idea of being preserved can be seen as the catalyst for Shepard seeing that, I think.

[Evindell]

Gam3Ov3r wrote...

john v rambo wrote...

In space without a helmet.. It had to of been some kind of dream or hallucination. Not to mention, we see the citadel explode... but if you beat the game with 5k or more war assets, we see that Shepard is still alive. There is no way he would have survived the explosion of the citadel and even if he somehow did the fall back to earth would kill him. It just doesn't make any sense.. So BW must be planning something. And yes I know Shepard has survived the explosion of a ship/the fall to a planet before... but as Jacob said "You were nothing but meat and tubes".

. 


Well you do hear wind blowing during that scene which means he/she is on earth

Do you have a link to this? I don't feel like searching myself, and I definitely don't feel like booting up my XBOX for it...

Modifié par Evindell, 11 mars 2012 - 06:30 .

[krystalevenstar]

lookingglassmind wrote...

Unless Destroy doesn't kill all synthetics, and just kills the Reapers. But the fact that we don't see EDI on the Normandy if we choose to Destroy seems to speak against this (weakly).

Oh wow! That brings up a whole different line of thinking to me. Maybe the child was lying about it destroying -all- synthetic life to disuade you from choosing that option. Like, "Well hey, I'm not gonna stop you, but it will kill all your little buddies the Geth." Another test to show Shepard's resolve to following this through. The cutscene never showed ANY synthetics being destroyed but the Reapers. If the Star Child is lying about everything to get Shepard to choose to save the Reapers, why would this be out of the realm of possibility.

[MoarToast4U]

I have my fingers crossed that everything after getting shot by Harbinger (entering the conduit, confronting Illusive Man-Husk, Anderson, The Guardian, the bogus choice, the aftermath, and the epilogue that makes no conceivable sense) are antemortem hallucinations being suffered by Shepard as s/he lays dying in the rubble of the battlefield (which kind of mirrors the "surprise" ending for the destroy arc). I'm also holding out the hope that if and when the DLC is released, it will pick up where the devs neglectfully dropped us off at, providing us with the true ending.

[Invisibilly]

[quote]Evindell wrote...

[quote]Gam3Ov3r wrote...

[quote]john v rambo wrote...

In space without a helmet.. It had to of been some kind of dream or hallucination. Not to mention, we see the citadel explode... but if you beat the game with 5k or more war assets, we see that Shepard is still alive. There is no way he would have survived the explosion of the citadel and even if he somehow did the fall back to earth would kill him. It just doesn't make any sense.. So BW must be planning something. And yes I know Shepard has survived the explosion of a ship/the fall to a planet before... but as Jacob said "You were nothing but meat and tubes".[/quote]. 


Well you do hear wind blowing during that scene which means he/she is on earth

[/quote]

Do you have a link to this? I don't feel like searching myself, and I definitely don't feel like booting up my XBOX for it...

[/qhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7swKCdM9jvo skip to the end

[Fat Headed Wolf]

I heard some theory on the boards here that Bioware could have put this crappy ending on disc until ME3 had shipped in all regions. Any proof to that, or is it just the case of someone showing wishful thinking?

[ceruleancrescent]

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

Also, prior to the release of the game, Mike Gamble said that we should keep our ME3 saves.  As it stands, it's kind of pointless to keep your save, nevertheless do a NG+, all things considered.  What would be the point of a new squad member, weapon set, mission, or alt. clothing if it's all just goes to hell? 

Can't help but hope.

From the article "As for Shepard’s send-off, Gamble says that it has to leave players satisfied. “We want the outcomes to be satisfying to the player. That doesn’t necessarily mean they’re all going to be happy or positive, but they have to be satisfying. Players have to understand that the choices they’ve been making in this game and in previous have had an impact, and that they’re an architect in what happens.” "

I have to hope that bioware isn't so dense that they can think the endings they gave us were "satisfying" and that the choices we made in the games had "impact" based on these endings....it gives me hope 

Modifié par ceruleancrescent, 11 mars 2012 - 06:35 .

[TheRevanchist]

I'm kinda wondering how the random ass Normandy crap fits into this theory of a dream sequence. I mean...its SO out of place that I dont think even THIS theroy can justify it's reasons to exsist.

[oh_saki]

All I'm saying is.... I'm Commander Mosuckrin' Shepard. I killed Sovereign. I killed Saren. I blew up Virmire. I passed through the Mu Relay, decided it was too easy, and upped the ante by going through the Omega relay. I infiltrated the collector base and blew all their faces off, followed by blowing off the face of their human reaper experiment. Then I decided to show the galaxy I was charismatic as well and united numerous species that have been at each other's throats for generations. I went into the minds of the Geth. I haven't just survived Reaper attacks on the Asari, Turian, and Krogan homeworlds, I straight up went there as they were being attacked, blew a Reaper or two up, then decided to leave.

This CAN'T be how Commander Shepard ends!!!

[littleork]

[quote]Gam3Ov3r wrote...

[quote]Evindell wrote...

[quote]Gam3Ov3r wrote...

[quote]john v rambo wrote...

In space without a helmet.. It had to of been some kind of dream or hallucination. Not to mention, we see the citadel explode... but if you beat the game with 5k or more war assets, we see that Shepard is still alive. There is no way he would have survived the explosion of the citadel and even if he somehow did the fall back to earth would kill him. It just doesn't make any sense.. So BW must be planning something. And yes I know Shepard has survived the explosion of a ship/the fall to a planet before... but as Jacob said "You were nothing but meat and tubes".[/quote]. 


Well you do hear wind blowing during that scene which means he/she is on earth

[/quote]

Do you have a link to this? I don't feel like searching myself, and I definitely don't feel like booting up my XBOX for it...

[/qhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7swKCdM9jvo skip to the end
[/quote]


That was definitly wind and a *im waking up from a nightmare* breathing

[comrade gando]

He's definitely indoctrinated in my opinion, no way they would end the series on such a sour note. I mean really it's like a universally hated ending. Harbinger is f'in with shepard's mind just like he's f'ing with us the gamers' minds. Final boss battle vs harbinger here we come

[mentosman8]

@Kyle: That would have been part of the hallucination. As Shepard succumbs to/fights off death/indoctrination, he imagines making a choice, and his friends/LI crashing, but on a lush new world where life can continue on peacefully and out of the way of the conflict. Note in the ending where Shep is shown to be alive, that clip is *after* the Normandy clip, and would be prior to him waking up in the rubble.

[lookingglassmind]

Fat Headed Wolf wrote...

I heard some theory on the boards here that Bioware could have put this crappy ending on disc until ME3 had shipped in all regions. Any proof to that, or is it just the case of someone showing wishful thinking?

I don't know. It could be. It would be.. interesting, but kind of unlikely. Why would they do that? It seems cost-intensive. And very risky. Potentially losing a large fan base purely for the sake of a friggin' awesome story line? I mean, I'd respect it, but I doubt it's what has actually happened.

If BioWare's going to sacrifice the ending for a powerful metagaming story experience, then I'd say the farthest that they would go is to leave these endings on the disc. This forces the player to decide if Shepard becomes indoctrinated or not. Basically, you're deciding whether you yourself fall prey to indoctrination, through this choice. Then, after this decision is made by most of the players post-release, the DLC with post-ending content is released.