57139 réponses à ce sujet

[crimsontotem]

Icinix wrote...

Nazoa wrote...

I'm loving how this theory is coming along, and I have something to add, that I don't believe has been said, though admittedly I haven't read every page.

Many people ask why the hell the god-child talks about synthetics (reapers) destroying organics so that synthetics cannot rise up. Thus preventing "chaos".

This could be a nonsense argument that only makes sense because Shepard is indoctrinated, OR it could be a twist of the truth.

What if the Reapers were the first synthetics ever created, by a civilization that grew very advanced? They then became self-aware, realized they were superior to their creators, then overthrew them. They now kill off organics after a certain amount of time, because they fear that another race of self-aware synthetics will rise up to challenge them.

SO to hold their dominance, they wipe out all advanced organic life before they can advance far enough to create synthetics to challenge the reapers.

Thoughts?

Adding to that, other than "Destroy" ending, those two options were preferred by two antagonists of the game, Saren and TIM. They were both indoctrinated by the reapers and if our theory is correct, then I think Harbinger was showing Shepard his predecessor's way. 

I like this theory. I haven' t seen this before.

So what the Reapers are saying is a part truth. In their own way they are saving Organic life from being totally dominated by synthetic life, but still remaining the dominant power in the galaxy.

[GovernorTarkin]

Amialis666 wrote...

wryan2011 wrote...

Amialis666 wrote...

wryan2011 wrote...

I have this fear that even if this indoc theory is true the next dlc will have shepherd incapacitated while you take control of the british clock tower guy who 'finishes the fight' and is also the protagonist for the next set of mass effect games. ...or even worse, it's Vega who finishes the fight! That would be ...loco of Bioware I think.

Don't mind me, I think all this conspiracy theory is leading me down dark paths ; )

I can not see vega... Mass effect is all about creating our own character, and deciding their actions.

Vega is already created and has a set personality.
This would destroy the roleplaying as well as the interactive story part of things.

Unless bioware is deciding to get out of the genre they are known for...

As I think about it more, I feel better about them not going this route with a new game.  Mainly because where does that leave everybody who plays as a female character?  Would they consider it just for ending dlc?  We'll see

I however could see them doing something like Dragon Age: Awakening, if you import a save with a dead warden you have to create a new one. If you import one with a living warden you can continue playing that character.

I could see them allowing you to finish the game with shepard if you chose destroy and survived. And if you failed that, having you either create a new character, or have you choose the gender and the new character never takes off their helm.

Maybe the first fight with a new character would be killing shepard, and in later games have them later deal with the guilt or the blame of killing the galaxies greatest hero. 

I could never kill shepard, i'm to attached, thats why i'm mad at the ending

[People4Peace]

Amialis666 wrote...

People4Peace wrote...

Amialis666 wrote...

wryan2011 wrote...

Amialis666 wrote...

wryan2011 wrote...

I have this fear that even if this indoc theory is true the next dlc will have shepherd incapacitated while you take control of the british clock tower guy who 'finishes the fight' and is also the protagonist for the next set of mass effect games. ...or even worse, it's Vega who finishes the fight! That would be ...loco of Bioware I think.

Don't mind me, I think all this conspiracy theory is leading me down dark paths ; )

I can not see vega... Mass effect is all about creating our own character, and deciding their actions.

Vega is already created and has a set personality.
This would destroy the roleplaying as well as the interactive story part of things.

Unless bioware is deciding to get out of the genre they are known for...

As I think about it more, I feel better about them not going this route with a new game.  Mainly because where does that leave everybody who plays as a female character?  Would they consider it just for ending dlc?  We'll see

I however could see them doing something like Dragon Age: Awakening, if you import a save with a dead warden you have to create a new one. If you import one with a living warden you can continue playing that character.

I could see them allowing you to finish the game with shepard if you chose destroy and survived. And if you failed that, having you either create a new character, or have you choose the gender and the new character never takes off their helm.

Maybe the first fight with a new character would be killing shepard, and in later games have them later deal with the guilt or the blame of killing the galaxies greatest hero. 

I agree with everything you said except the last part. If Shep is died, perhaps an Alliance soldier takes over - either to defeat the Reapers (which I doubt) or to go save the Normandy and her crew...plus a few other missions like rebuilding Earth or destroying what is left of any enemies?

If Shep is alive, you obviously just continue from there. Bioware would never let another, possibly random character murder Shep. I just don't see this happening.

I doubt it would happen.

And I am not saying murdered, I am saying if he is indoctrinated, it could be a possibility.
Maybe make that the first choice... paragon let them live and watch them run off, or renegade kill him. (Though to me killing them would be kinder than letting them live as a husk.)

Playing SWTOR has taught me bioware has no quams about killing off main characters in humilating ways....

But Shep wouldn't be a husk if she/he is alive. If the player picked destroy then Shep refused indoctrination...at least to a certain extent. I don't think Shep is past the point of no return...at least in the Destroy ending.

[El_Spiko]

I saw earlier that some folks were saying Shepard's eyes being the same as TIM and Saren because of his implants. In the Evolution comics, all the indoctrinated synthesized people have those eyes, and TIM manifests the same eyes after partially being exposed to a Reaper artifact and having his first vision/nightmare about the reapers. So the eyes are definitely a sign, in fact one of the first signs, of reaper indoctrination.

[Amialis666]

wryan2011 wrote...

Amialis666 wrote...

wryan2011 wrote...

Amialis666 wrote...

wryan2011 wrote...

I have this fear that even if this indoc theory is true the next dlc will have shepherd incapacitated while you take control of the british clock tower guy who 'finishes the fight' and is also the protagonist for the next set of mass effect games. ...or even worse, it's Vega who finishes the fight! That would be ...loco of Bioware I think.

Don't mind me, I think all this conspiracy theory is leading me down dark paths ; )

I can not see vega... Mass effect is all about creating our own character, and deciding their actions.

Vega is already created and has a set personality.
This would destroy the roleplaying as well as the interactive story part of things.

Unless bioware is deciding to get out of the genre they are known for...

As I think about it more, I feel better about them not going this route with a new game.  Mainly because where does that leave everybody who plays as a female character?  Would they consider it just for ending dlc?  We'll see

I however could see them doing something like Dragon Age: Awakening, if you import a save with a dead warden you have to create a new one. If you import one with a living warden you can continue playing that character.

I could see them allowing you to finish the game with shepard if you chose destroy and survived. And if you failed that, having you either create a new character, or have you choose the gender and the new character never takes off their helm.

Maybe the first fight with a new character would be killing shepard, and in later games have them later deal with the guilt or the blame of killing the galaxies greatest hero. 

hmmm possibly.  With all the backlash I'm wondering if they'd give you another way as Shep to fight off the indoctrination in the dlc if you chose wrong.  

It would be interesting in the sense that if you chose Synth or Control your new character would be the main protagonist for the next game like you said.  If you chose destroy you play the endgame as Shep, but when the next Mass Effect game comes around and you make your character they could have being a soldier in London during that battle as part of your canon history regardless of how you finished the game.  Good thoughts!  

My thoughts exactly. If Shepard failed, then the new hero would be 'The one who killed the reapers.'
If shepard suceeded they would still would be a hero 'One of the few who took part in the final assault.'

Basically it would be like the War Hero and the Sole Survivor options. 

Modifié par Amialis666, 15 mars 2012 - 04:21 .

[Nazoa]

Evil_medved wrote...

Nazoa wrote...

I'm loving how this theory is coming along, and I have something to add, that I don't believe has been said, though admittedly I haven't read every page.

Many people ask why the hell the god-child talks about synthetics (reapers) destroying organics so that synthetics cannot rise up. Thus preventing "chaos".

This could be a nonsense argument that only makes sense because Shepard is indoctrinated, OR it could be a twist of the truth.

What if the Reapers were the first synthetics ever created, by a civilization that grew very advanced? They then became self-aware, realized they were superior to their creators, then overthrew them. They now kill off organics after a certain amount of time, because they fear that another race of self-aware synthetics will rise up to challenge them.

SO to hold their dominance, they wipe out all advanced organic life before they can advance far enough to create synthetics to challenge the reapers.

Thoughts?

They can keep synthetics in check a lot more efficiently and without genocides. Codex states that Reaper know everything about organic races and thus they have extreamly efficient recon. They can find signs of rising sythetic life and whipe it out before it rises. Thye could  bomb all Geth into the dust, and nobody would even notice, with them being quiet for 300 years, and yet they didnt.

They were never able to directly control the Geth without their consent.

[Evil_medved]

But Shep wouldn't be a husk if she/he is alive. If the player picked destroy then Shep refused indoctrination...at least to a certain extent. I don't think Shep is past the point of no return...at least in the Destroy ending.

How about this - no matter the choice you made you can play dlc, but in the end of dlc, if Shep choosen wrong he goes all benezia on us, and his/her LI forced to mercykill him.

[People4Peace]

Nazoa wrote...

I'm loving how this theory is coming along, and I have something to add, that I don't believe has been said, though admittedly I haven't read every page.

Many people ask why the hell the god-child talks about synthetics (reapers) destroying organics so that synthetics cannot rise up. Thus preventing "chaos".

This could be a nonsense argument that only makes sense because Shepard is indoctrinated, OR it could be a twist of the truth.

What if the Reapers were the first synthetics ever created, by a civilization that grew very advanced? They then became self-aware, realized they were superior to their creators, then overthrew them. They now kill off organics after a certain amount of time, because they fear that another race of self-aware synthetics will rise up to challenge them.

SO to hold their dominance, they wipe out all advanced organic life before they can advance far enough to create synthetics to challenge the reapers.

Thoughts?

Very interesting. I like it and it's certainly better than the "purpose" of the Reapers explained to us by God Child

[kyg_20X6]

Icinix wrote...

Nazoa wrote...

I'm loving how this theory is coming along, and I have something to add, that I don't believe has been said, though admittedly I haven't read every page.

Many people ask why the hell the god-child talks about synthetics (reapers) destroying organics so that synthetics cannot rise up. Thus preventing "chaos".

This could be a nonsense argument that only makes sense because Shepard is indoctrinated, OR it could be a twist of the truth.

What if the Reapers were the first synthetics ever created, by a civilization that grew very advanced? They then became self-aware, realized they were superior to their creators, then overthrew them. They now kill off organics after a certain amount of time, because they fear that another race of self-aware synthetics will rise up to challenge them.

SO to hold their dominance, they wipe out all advanced organic life before they can advance far enough to create synthetics to challenge the reapers.

Thoughts?

I like this theory. I haven' t seen this before.

So what the Reapers are saying is a part truth. In their own way they are saving Organic life from being totally dominated by synthetic life, but still remaining the dominant power in the galaxy.

Edit: And it fits with the whole Singularity thing too. Lets say they had one overriding code that couldn't be altered - "Protect Organic Life" - in their way they're upholding that like in I, Robot - they're interpretation of it is altered however.

So they then go sit in Dark Space for 50,000 years? Why not rule their galaxy?

[Icinix]

Evil_medved wrote...

Nazoa wrote...

I'm loving how this theory is coming along, and I have something to add, that I don't believe has been said, though admittedly I haven't read every page.

Many people ask why the hell the god-child talks about synthetics (reapers) destroying organics so that synthetics cannot rise up. Thus preventing "chaos".

This could be a nonsense argument that only makes sense because Shepard is indoctrinated, OR it could be a twist of the truth.

What if the Reapers were the first synthetics ever created, by a civilization that grew very advanced? They then became self-aware, realized they were superior to their creators, then overthrew them. They now kill off organics after a certain amount of time, because they fear that another race of self-aware synthetics will rise up to challenge them.

SO to hold their dominance, they wipe out all advanced organic life before they can advance far enough to create synthetics to challenge the reapers.

Thoughts?

They can keep synthetics in check a lot more efficiently and without genocides. Codex states that Reaper know everything about organic races and thus they have extreamly efficient recon. They can find signs of rising sythetic life and whipe it out before it rises. Thye could  bomb all Geth into the dust, and nobody would even notice, with them being quiet for 300 years, and yet they didnt.

Arguably though they worked with the Geth in ME1, ME2 and ME3. Despite Sovereign being disgusted by them.

Maybe its only when Synthetic life starts to become really aware (like the Geth at the end of ME3) that they decide to take action. To be honest, taking out any type of synthetic early on your seriously cripple advancement of races - which could lead to them overpopulating / over polluting their own worlds etc.

Its not a flawless theory - but it makes more sense than we created the singularity to stop the singularity - rather we are a hairs breath from the singularity to save yourselves and us.

[Leonia]

The Reapers are beyond our comprehension.

[Nazoa]

kyg_20X6 wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Nazoa wrote...

I'm loving how this theory is coming along, and I have something to add, that I don't believe has been said, though admittedly I haven't read every page.

Many people ask why the hell the god-child talks about synthetics (reapers) destroying organics so that synthetics cannot rise up. Thus preventing "chaos".

This could be a nonsense argument that only makes sense because Shepard is indoctrinated, OR it could be a twist of the truth.

What if the Reapers were the first synthetics ever created, by a civilization that grew very advanced? They then became self-aware, realized they were superior to their creators, then overthrew them. They now kill off organics after a certain amount of time, because they fear that another race of self-aware synthetics will rise up to challenge them.

SO to hold their dominance, they wipe out all advanced organic life before they can advance far enough to create synthetics to challenge the reapers.

Thoughts?

I like this theory. I haven' t seen this before.

So what the Reapers are saying is a part truth. In their own way they are saving Organic life from being totally dominated by synthetic life, but still remaining the dominant power in the galaxy.

Edit: And it fits with the whole Singularity thing too. Lets say they had one overriding code that couldn't be altered - "Protect Organic Life" - in their way they're upholding that like in I, Robot - they're interpretation of it is altered however.

So they then go sit in Dark Space for 50,000 years? Why not rule their galaxy?

Perhaps, at the end of the day, they don't want to rule over all life, they just want to be able to live themselves. They fear they won't be able to if civilizations advance so far.

[People4Peace]

Mallissin wrote...

taviastrife wrote...

Evil_medved wrote...

Okay guys this is wild but think of it.

Imagine that whole scene near console is indeed truth, there was no TIM - thats indoctrination strikes Shepard right if front of Anderson. He never actually looks on TIM and only once he says "dont listen to HIM(harby?)" but thats about it. How about there are only two of them. Anderson says "They control you" "you are being indoctrinated" looking straight on Shepard/in camera. And Shepards shot does kill him.

Hmm...that's kind of an interesting take on it.  But, Shepard has a chance to talk down TIM, right?  Then, TIM shoots himself.

....Unless that's Shepard beating that initial attempt of Harby's indoctrination.  Then, you could say that the godchild was Harby's last major attempt.

Yet, the ending scene with Shepard in the rubble, taking a breath, would suggest that the Citadel scene didn't even happen in the first place.

I still think everything after being struck by Harbinger's weapon is an indoctrination hallucination between Harbinger, TIM and you, probably using TIM's technology that Harbinger aquired when TIM became his proxy (like Saren).

So, none of it happened in reality. Shepard is actually laying somewhere knocked out by the energy attack while fighting the mind game.

The three choices represent his prize for beating the indoctrination. For instance, Destroy (the only or easiest choice) makes Harbinger blow up, Control (middle difficulty) makes Harbinger start firing at the other Reapers, and Synthesis (hardest but always good) will let you read Harbinger's mind to understand their true motivations (a quick movie explaining Reaper Origins, Dark Matter problem, etc,  you explore later).

When you wake after the hallucination, you and your team run into the beam to get onto the Citadel and figure out how to get the Crucible to work (and find the real Conduit). Hopefully presented with one last huge battle (with old teammates popping in and out of the battle as they flood the Citadel to help) and presented with the ultimate decision on how to use the Crucible after you understand all the issues.

I'm betting the Crucible is a weapon that exacerbates the dark energy problems, so as we fight the Reapers with it we need to figure out how to stop the use of all the Mass Effect cores, relays, etc., from destroying the galaxy while we confront the Reapers.

I would be okay with this ending especially if they brought back the dark energy plot. It makes more sense than the current explanation we have for the Reapers

[xMellowhype]

I'm a little confused here. If Shepard is indoctrinated did the whole thing on the Citadel actually happen?

[taviastrife]

kyg_20X6 wrote...

So they then go sit in Dark Space for 50,000 years? Why not rule their galaxy?

Because they're not greedy...?  /s

XD

Seriously though, they could emerge only when they actually feel threatened.  Maybe the advancement of the Geth caused them to stir?  The Geth were beginning to grow in intelligence more and more after they took Rannoch.

[Flammenpanzer]

xMellowhype wrote...

I'm a little confused here. If Shepard is indoctrinated did the whole thing on the Citadel actually happen?

Depends which indoctrination theory you agree with

[Icinix]

kyg_20X6 wrote...

So they then go sit in Dark Space for 50,000 years? Why not rule their galaxy?

See my previous post - basically - it might not give them what they need.

What if there are limitations in the Reapers - the inability to wipe out races not technology sufficient (e.g They've left the Yhag for at least two cycles), or they can't create technology directly, they can only repurpose what is available in each cycle - so they let races develop large enough but not too large?

Like I said - not a flawless theory - but none of the theories about Reaper motivation are.

[kent80082006]

Good morning everyone! Any major find over the last 50 pages? Staff responce?

[Evil_medved]

Perhaps, at the end of the day, they don't want to rule over all life, they just want to be able to live themselves. They fear they won't be able to if civilizations advance so far.

Dude, you talked to the Reapers. They all arrogant, utterly evil power-hungry bastrads who talk down to us, and always state that you are nothing compared to them. They dont seem like a live and let live bunch,

Thats also points to that kid is lying - Reapers obviously enjoy harvest, violence and domination of lesser beings.

Modifié par Evil_medved, 15 mars 2012 - 04:28 .

[Icinix]

leonia42 wrote...

The Reapers are beyond our comprehension.

...thats what they want you to think

[Roll Equals Cute]

kent80082006 wrote...

Good morning everyone! Any major find over the last 50 pages? Staff responce?

Fake image declaring kid = harbinger, some 4channer apparently found some leaked proof that ending DLC is coming (feasible but impossible to prove), and some interesting tweets.

Hold the line for me friend, the SSV New Yorker is going to bed.

Modifié par Roll Equals Cute, 15 mars 2012 - 04:27 .

[Nazoa]

Icinix wrote...

kyg_20X6 wrote...

So they then go sit in Dark Space for 50,000 years? Why not rule their galaxy?

See my previous post - basically - it might not give them what they need.

What if there are limitations in the Reapers - the inability to wipe out races not technology sufficient (e.g They've left the Yhag for at least two cycles), or they can't create technology directly, they can only repurpose what is available in each cycle - so they let races develop large enough but not too large?

Like I said - not a flawless theory - but none of the theories about Reaper motivation are.

I recognize it has it's problems, which is why I brought it up for discussion... thus far I've seen no explanation for that BS system set up... and the Reapers don't seem like they'd lie out of their ass.

[sjrskl]

Nazoa wrote...

I'm loving how this theory is coming along, and I have something to add, that I don't believe has been said, though admittedly I haven't read every page.

Many people ask why the hell the god-child talks about synthetics (reapers) destroying organics so that synthetics cannot rise up. Thus preventing "chaos".

This could be a nonsense argument that only makes sense because Shepard is indoctrinated, OR it could be a twist of the truth.

What if the Reapers were the first synthetics ever created, by a civilization that grew very advanced? They then became self-aware, realized they were superior to their creators, then overthrew them. They now kill off organics after a certain amount of time, because they fear that another race of self-aware synthetics will rise up to challenge them.

SO to hold their dominance, they wipe out all advanced organic life before they can advance far enough to create synthetics to challenge the reapers.

Thoughts?

to that end watch this clip it shows how the prothean thinks about machines and it show the possible motivations of the reapers and why they think like they do.

[keith123456789]

kent80082006 wrote...

Good morning everyone! Any major find over the last 50 pages? Staff responce?

nope just this funny ass piture 
http://i4.photobucke...un/bestblue.jpg

[Nazoa]

Evil_medved wrote...

Perhaps, at the end of the day, they don't want to rule over all life, they just want to be able to live themselves. They fear they won't be able to if civilizations advance so far.

Dude, you talked to the Reapers. They all arrogant, utterly evil power-hungry bastrads who talk down to us, and always state thatyou nothing compared to them. They dont seem like a live and let live bunch,

Thats also points to that kid is lying - Reapers obviously enjoy harvest, violence and domination of lesser beings.

We've talked to three reapers. They are arrogant, sure. That's why they overthrew their creators in the first place. However, there's no evidence to suggest that they are power-hungry, or that they enjoy the genocide. They do it methodically, like one would take out the trash. They aren't greedy for more power because they feel they ARE ultimate power.