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Was the ending a hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory


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#13026
Elscotto1989

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Auresta wrote...

Elscotto1989 wrote...

so i know this is out of place but i tried to download the datapad app that says its for ipod touch...."incompatible with ipod touch" wow thanks again bioware...your 0-2 on mass effect 3 at the moment...


I have it for my ipod touch. Did you update yours?

it says mine is up to date yet it says that it cant download it that it is not compatable with ipod touch.

#13027
JulienJaden

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I'm not that much into economy and business magazines, and I, along with a few others, already brought those points up a couple 100 pages ago, but I still think it's good to know that even a Forbes editor agrees that Bioware is at risk of ruining itself over these issues with Mass Effect 3, if they don't handle things properly.

http://www.forbes.co...-good-business/

#13028
Elscotto1989

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JulienJaden wrote...

I'm not that much into economy and business magazines, and I, along with a few others, already brought those points up a couple 100 pages ago, but I still think it's good to know that even a Forbes editor agrees that Bioware is at risk of ruining itself over these issues with Mass Effect 3, if they don't handle things properly.

http://www.forbes.co...-good-business/

i agree it is bad business sense.

#13029
Auresta

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Elscotto1989 wrote...

Auresta wrote...

Elscotto1989 wrote...

so i know this is out of place but i tried to download the datapad app that says its for ipod touch...."incompatible with ipod touch" wow thanks again bioware...your 0-2 on mass effect 3 at the moment...


I have it for my ipod touch. Did you update yours?

it says mine is up to date yet it says that it cant download it that it is not compatable with ipod touch.


I have no idea what to say :( All I know is that I have it on my ipod touch and it's working fine :( Good luck with that, though!

#13030
Elscotto1989

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Auresta wrote...

Elscotto1989 wrote...

Auresta wrote...

Elscotto1989 wrote...

so i know this is out of place but i tried to download the datapad app that says its for ipod touch...."incompatible with ipod touch" wow thanks again bioware...your 0-2 on mass effect 3 at the moment...


I have it for my ipod touch. Did you update yours?

it says mine is up to date yet it says that it cant download it that it is not compatable with ipod touch.


I have no idea what to say :( All I know is that I have it on my ipod touch and it's working fine :( Good luck with that, though!

doing a full restore to see if something has gotten out of whack on it over time.

#13031
Martukis

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AFAIK, the datapad app is only compatible with certain versions of the ipod touch. It has been complained about on the @masseffect twitter, as there is no apparent warning or advisory as to which versions it will work on.

#13032
DCYNIGR8

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JulienJaden wrote...

I'm not that much into economy and business magazines, and I, along with a few others, already brought those points up a couple 100 pages ago, but I still think it's good to know that even a Forbes editor agrees that Bioware is at risk of ruining itself over these issues with Mass Effect 3, if they don't handle things properly.

http://www.forbes.co...-good-business/


That was a good read, thanks for sharing.

#13033
Elscotto1989

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Martukis wrote...

AFAIK, the datapad app is only compatible with certain versions of the ipod touch. It has been complained about on the @masseffect twitter, as there is no apparent warning or advisory as to which versions it will work on.

do they plan on redoing the app to work for all of them or are they just going to ostricize there fanbase farther? *makes falling bomb noise*

#13034
Skyblade012

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SalinValu wrote...

byne wrote...

SalinValu wrote...

Pyewacket wrote...

UKillMeLongTime wrote...

if ya dont punch her she is a war asset lol, 10 pts i think



What?  She's worth more than ALLERS?  BWAHAHA.


Sadly no...



According to the wiki she is indeed worth more than Allers.

I think the only thing worth less than Allers is Conrad Verner's doctoral dissertation.


Hmm, maybe I'm just blocking it all out from shock, but I would have sworn that her value went up if you did the interviews with her. And there are two of them.


No, she gives boost to some of the others, but her own never increases.  For example, if you support the Krogan units in your interview about those, the Krogan units get updated with a "moral boost" type improvement.

#13035
Lotarion

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ok so about Normandy Crash scene (with Red ending, becouse in green it is always joker+edi).

First person that comes out is always Joker.
Second person is your LI but only if it is Liara/Ashley/Tali/Kaidan/Garrus (crew members) if not most people have seen Ashley but i don't know if it's a pattern.
Last one is a guy who was with you on Earth.

So for example for me it was Joker, Ashley (LI), Javik.

I think for green it's Joker+Edi+LI(crew member)/crew member from Earth.

Not 100% confirmed (only over 10 people confirmed that) but if that's true, then it must be something to it - maybe thinking about them helps Shepard with indoctrination (or dooms him, thinking they will be alright).

I mean this is the biggest plot hole right next to "alive Shepard" and "mass relays blowing up". Joker had to return on earth, take your crew and run from the battle - all that in about what? 5 minutes? Plus I saw a youtube film where you can actually see dead Garrus lying on the ground after the beam (low EWS) and still see him again in Normandy after the crash. So the fact that it is so large plothole AND it almost always happens is like Bioware saying us "HEY, HEY LOOK!!! SOMETHING IS NOT RIGHT HERE!"

#13036
Spectre-61

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Lotarion wrote...

ok so about Normandy Crash scene (with Red ending, becouse in green it is always joker+edi).

First person that comes out is always Joker.
Second person is your LI but only if it is Liara/Ashley/Tali/Kaidan/Garrus (crew members) if not most people have seen Ashley but i don't know if it's a pattern.
Last one is a guy who was with you on Earth.

So for example for me it was Joker, Ashley (LI), Javik.

I think for green it's Joker+Edi+LI(crew member)/crew member from Earth.

Not 100% confirmed (only over 10 people confirmed that) but if that's true, then it must be something to it - maybe thinking about them helps Shepard with indoctrination (or dooms him, thinking they will be alright).

I mean this is the biggest plot hole right next to "alive Shepard" and "mass relays blowing up". Joker had to return on earth, take your crew and run from the battle - all that in about what? 5 minutes? Plus I saw a youtube film where you can actually see dead Garrus lying on the ground after the beam (low EWS) and still see him again in Normandy after the crash. So the fact that it is so large plothole AND it almost always happens is like Bioware saying us "HEY, HEY LOOK!!! SOMETHING IS NOT RIGHT HERE!"


My pattern was a bit different. First Joker, second Garrus (squadmate on Earth) and third on was Vega (not a squadmate on Earth).

#13037
Elscotto1989

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Lotarion wrote...

ok so about Normandy Crash scene (with Red ending, becouse in green it is always joker+edi).

First person that comes out is always Joker.
Second person is your LI but only if it is Liara/Ashley/Tali/Kaidan/Garrus (crew members) if not most people have seen Ashley but i don't know if it's a pattern.
Last one is a guy who was with you on Earth.

So for example for me it was Joker, Ashley (LI), Javik.

I think for green it's Joker+Edi+LI(crew member)/crew member from Earth.

Not 100% confirmed (only over 10 people confirmed that) but if that's true, then it must be something to it - maybe thinking about them helps Shepard with indoctrination (or dooms him, thinking they will be alright).

I mean this is the biggest plot hole right next to "alive Shepard" and "mass relays blowing up". Joker had to return on earth, take your crew and run from the battle - all that in about what? 5 minutes? Plus I saw a youtube film where you can actually see dead Garrus lying on the ground after the beam (low EWS) and still see him again in Normandy after the crash. So the fact that it is so large plothole AND it almost always happens is like Bioware saying us "HEY, HEY LOOK!!! SOMETHING IS NOT RIGHT HERE!"

i would like a link to this garrus scene.

#13038
wryterra

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Lotarion wrote...

ok so about Normandy Crash scene (with Red ending, becouse in green it is always joker+edi).

First person that comes out is always Joker.
Second person is your LI but only if it is Liara/Ashley/Tali/Kaidan/Garrus (crew members) if not most people have seen Ashley but i don't know if it's a pattern.
Last one is a guy who was with you on Earth.


Sorry, this isn't the case. When I picked destroy joker, liara and garrus were aboard. I took James and javik with me on earth. 

#13039
Monochrome Wench

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The ending likes to give you LI + one of your squad mates in the final mission.

#13040
Bunzmaster

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Lotarion wrote...

I mean this is the biggest plot hole right next to "alive Shepard" and "mass relays blowing up". Joker had to return on earth, take your crew and run from the battle - all that in about what? 5 minutes? Plus I saw a youtube film where you can actually see dead Garrus lying on the ground after the beam (low EWS) and still see him again in Normandy after the crash. So the fact that it is so large plothole AND it almost always happens is like Bioware saying us "HEY, HEY LOOK!!! SOMETHING IS NOT RIGHT HERE!"


True.  OR! It could be a design oversight?

With all the bugs in this game, I wouldn't be surprised if it was just sloppiness.




#13041
Martukis

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Is Harbringer the only Reaper with four of the lights? If so... Well, take another look at the first one, the one that destroys the transport the infamous kid is on...

#13042
Pathero

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Elscotto1989 wrote...

Lotarion wrote...

ok so about Normandy Crash scene (with Red ending, becouse in green it is always joker+edi).

First person that comes out is always Joker.
Second person is your LI but only if it is Liara/Ashley/Tali/Kaidan/Garrus (crew members) if not most people have seen Ashley but i don't know if it's a pattern.
Last one is a guy who was with you on Earth.

So for example for me it was Joker, Ashley (LI), Javik.

I think for green it's Joker+Edi+LI(crew member)/crew member from Earth.

Not 100% confirmed (only over 10 people confirmed that) but if that's true, then it must be something to it - maybe thinking about them helps Shepard with indoctrination (or dooms him, thinking they will be alright).

I mean this is the biggest plot hole right next to "alive Shepard" and "mass relays blowing up". Joker had to return on earth, take your crew and run from the battle - all that in about what? 5 minutes? Plus I saw a youtube film where you can actually see dead Garrus lying on the ground after the beam (low EWS) and still see him again in Normandy after the crash. So the fact that it is so large plothole AND it almost always happens is like Bioware saying us "HEY, HEY LOOK!!! SOMETHING IS NOT RIGHT HERE!"

i would like a link to this garrus scene.


This is apparently quite a common 'bug'  I believe @masseffect commented on it in a tweet.  Something along the lines of 'yeah, we'd be cautious of that' might hae teh fine details slightly wrong.

#13043
Spectre-61

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Martukis wrote...

Is Harbringer the only Reaper with four of the lights? If so... Well, take another look at the first one, the one that destroys the transport the infamous kid is on...


That was a destroyer class reaper. Harbinger is a capital ship. :police:

#13044
kaotician

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spacefiddle wrote...

Chrumpek wrote...

Sidenote that prolly was somwhere among the lines of those 500 pages:

God child tells you that if you choose to destroy, it kills every synthethic life, even shepard since he got plenty of synth in him.

I did that and then I see my shepard breathing in the end movie... wha?

Yeah, even if this is all what I think it is... your only choice that gives even a hope of survival is choosing to murder the Geth you just helped to save

ID theory demands that this choice is counter-intuitive: with very, very little to go on, the player must suddenly decide that the game itself is not to be trusted.  I think this is a plausible explanation, but a poor design choice.  The player is not given enough alternate information to be able to come to this conclusion.  It's too rushed and abrupt.  If they wanted to go this route it could have been done SO much better.

tl;dr of the ID (Indoctrination) theory (well, one of them) is that, at the end there, none of that is exactly real.  You're on the ground, in London, hit by Harby's beam.  And what you experience after that is a last-ditch effort by Harby to indoctrinate Shepard.  So everything Godboi tells you is BS, and the choice he tries to warn you away from - Destroy the Reapers - is the right one.  It's what you came here to do.  It won't kill you OR the Geth: Godboi is lying.  Is, in fact, Harby.

And it goes further: control the Reapers.  Well, we just explained to TIM that this is impossible - but it's in Paragon Blue.  Good choice!

Destroy the Reapers is in Renegade Red, and further tied in with slaughtering the Geth, EDI and yourself.

Synthesis is a middle-ground where this falls apart, a little.  If it's Harby, not sure why he offers this at all instead of pushing Control more, but that question branches into MORE sub-theories.

Go read the ID theory post, the OP breaks down summaries of "leading theories."

(And I still think Shepard was the Catlyst all along!)


I like most of this theory, the trouble is that it just makes no sense overall since effectively you're saying that Harby, with no reason to do so whatsoever, offers Shepherd a 'pick a card, any card' option, one of which includes his own destruction, and all the other Reapers too. Why would he do that? It's just crazy.

#13045
Maegorod

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Monochrome Wench wrote...

The ending likes to give you LI + one of your squad mates in the final mission.


I had Tali (LI) and Liara with me. Joker, Tali and Garrus stepped out of the Normandy, Tali seems to have filled both roles in my case so they just made Garrus come out too apparently :D

#13046
ConradsLaces

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Flammenpanzer wrote...

You missed:
Oooh. PC discs have 14.8gb of data on them..(install is 10gb)
Atleast 2gb of that is different language audio though :pinched:
Opps, 2.7gb is extra language. Each additional language is 900mb...
So Deutsch, French, International (english), and Italian.
Leaves only 1gb in unaccounted files.


Just wanted to pick a post for context - so this isn't directed at you directly, Flammenpanzer.

I think if there were going to be a secret ending, that we all have yet to see, it would be patched in at some point; and none of the files would be kept locally.

Developers know that their fanbase will snoop through game files - hell, I've done it already with ME3 (trying to get the decals to see all the faces on the wall in the Refugee Area... also found a texture for Sovereign)... so, if they want to keep thier secrets...secret... they'd keep everything on thier end, and then just push it down the pipe when the time came.

Sure, it'll use game resources that we already have - wall textures, effects, etc, etc... but I don't think that would necessarily mean it would need to be included on the client... wether it be discs, or via an Origin install.

If this whole thing is true - and I'm really hoping it is - then one day, we'll fire it up, and get a patch... just like an MMO when they introduce new content... we'll get into game, and be hit with something new... and hopefully get the ending that they promised.

#13047
Tygur

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kaotician wrote...

spacefiddle wrote...

Chrumpek wrote...

Sidenote that prolly was somwhere among the lines of those 500 pages:

God child tells you that if you choose to destroy, it kills every synthethic life, even shepard since he got plenty of synth in him.

I did that and then I see my shepard breathing in the end movie... wha?

Yeah, even if this is all what I think it is... your only choice that gives even a hope of survival is choosing to murder the Geth you just helped to save

ID theory demands that this choice is counter-intuitive: with very, very little to go on, the player must suddenly decide that the game itself is not to be trusted.  I think this is a plausible explanation, but a poor design choice.  The player is not given enough alternate information to be able to come to this conclusion.  It's too rushed and abrupt.  If they wanted to go this route it could have been done SO much better.

tl;dr of the ID (Indoctrination) theory (well, one of them) is that, at the end there, none of that is exactly real.  You're on the ground, in London, hit by Harby's beam.  And what you experience after that is a last-ditch effort by Harby to indoctrinate Shepard.  So everything Godboi tells you is BS, and the choice he tries to warn you away from - Destroy the Reapers - is the right one.  It's what you came here to do.  It won't kill you OR the Geth: Godboi is lying.  Is, in fact, Harby.

And it goes further: control the Reapers.  Well, we just explained to TIM that this is impossible - but it's in Paragon Blue.  Good choice!

Destroy the Reapers is in Renegade Red, and further tied in with slaughtering the Geth, EDI and yourself.

Synthesis is a middle-ground where this falls apart, a little.  If it's Harby, not sure why he offers this at all instead of pushing Control more, but that question branches into MORE sub-theories.

Go read the ID theory post, the OP breaks down summaries of "leading theories."

(And I still think Shepard was the Catlyst all along!)


I like most of this theory, the trouble is that it just makes no sense overall since effectively you're saying that Harby, with no reason to do so whatsoever, offers Shepherd a 'pick a card, any card' option, one of which includes his own destruction, and all the other Reapers too. Why would he do that? It's just crazy.


I think they are getting at Harby doesn't have full control of your mind and the destruction end is still Shep's choice, Harby is just trying to be sly and sneak the choices past your radar while vulnerable so that he CAN have full control. Plus if it is all some hallucination then none of the choices really do anything except cement indoctrination or break free. It is Shep's mind's way of visualizing the whole thing.

#13048
Dessalines

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Could it be just be bad writing and a case of Idon'tgivecrapitis? I mean the overall plot is basically the Dragon Age: Origins plot. The only thing that changes is the emotional connection that you only get from the scenes that you had with your crew. Grunt staying back to the Rachni is a cool scene, because you have a history with Grunt. If not it just a Krogan. Even the Reapers are just the darkspawn? There are different darkspawn base on the different races like they are different Reapers base on the different races. The find the war asset mini quest is just like in  Dragon Age 2 when they have you running around to find  objects and returning them back to people. They just wrap all the quests together.
If there is no indoc theory, then it is case of bad writing and a casw of Idon'tgivecrapitis.
Right now, I am thinking Dragon Age 3 is that you are going to be recruited by the Illusive Morrigan to break into the Grand Chantry in Orlais and the main quest will only be 29 hours long. Mass Effect 4 will be that you fled your planet after the Reaper, and rose to be the ruler of the Terminus system.

Modifié par Dessalines, 15 mars 2012 - 08:48 .


#13049
TheGoddess0fWar

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The Truth DLC rumored to be released April/May?

#13050
MDT1

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Dessalines wrote...

Could it be just be bad writing and a case of Idon'tgivecrapitis? I mean the overall plot is basically the Dragon Age: Origins plot. The only thing that changes is the emotional connection that you only get from the scenes that you had with your crew. Grunt staying back to the Rachni is a cool scene, because you have a history with Grunt. If not it just a Krogan. Even the Reapers are just the darkspawn? There are different darkspawn base on the different races like they are different Reapers base on the different races. The find the war asset mini quest is just like in  Dragon Age 2 when they have you running around to find  objects and returning them back to people. They just wrap all the quests together.
If there is no indoc theory, then it is case of bad writing and a casw of Idon'tgivecrapitis.
Right now, I am thinking Dragon Age 3 is that you are going to be recruited by the Illusive Morrigan to break into the Grand Chantry in Orlais and the main quest will only be 29 hours long.


Sure, it could be bad writing and a case of Idon'tgivecrapitis. But people hoped for more and DAO had a "debriefing", the lack of with is one of the main concerns.