57139 réponses à ce sujet

[CptData]

Smiley556 wrote...

TheEllms wrote...

Problem with indoctrinated theory: The Prothean VI on Thessia (I think it was called Vendetta) seemed to be able to detect that Kai Leng was indoctrinated. Wouldn't it have said something if Shepard was indoctrinated?
If that was the case then could Vendetta have fed Shepard false information?

Really, this question again? I'm getting so tired of answering it.
Kai Leng was indoctrinated, shepard was not. Infact, shepard is never indoctrinated if you choose the destroy option at the end. He only becomes indoctrinated if you choose control or synthesis.
The reason the prothean VI didnt detect shepard as being indoctrinated is because shepard was not indoctrinated when confronting the prothean VI. Its really that simple.

Think I answered this one earlier: Shepard got indoctrinated earlier as displayed by his/her dreams. However, once s/he's awake, Shepard's willpower is able to keep indoctrination in check, maybe like it was for Saren at the very beginning. Since the story of ME3 gave a hell of blows against Shepard, his/her strength is failing at some points. In the end, it's a fight between Shepard's mind and indoctrination. If s/he goes for Control or Merge, you can consider it as "indoctrination wins" since both options were suggested by indoctrinated characters (Saren and TIM). The third ending, Destruction, is Shepard's (and Anderson's) path - and both were NOT indoctrinated for most parts of the game (or in case of Anderson, he never got indoctrinated at all).

Modifié par CptData, 15 mars 2012 - 12:01 .

[MysticFred]

VanDex wrote...

MysticFred wrote...

At the risk of getting yelled at . .

What if the whole game is the ending? You see the results of your actions from ME1 & 2 throughout the game, and you do get a sense of closure for your past actions.
That still leaves the last 15 min unanswered but, I believe that's actually the beginning for something new, and not "the ending".

Be gentle please, just another idea.

Pretty much the same idea

https://twitter.com/...35137944670208 

Well I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks that.

[Tashakov]

Heya all, haven't been keeping tabs on this for the past 30 or so pages, but I just found something else on GameFAQs. Not a whole lot of context given, and it could easily be faked, but hey, why not share it?
http://i1115.photobu...31778596081.png (Not a clue how to link the actual picture into the post.)

Look at the model-name. Suspicious? Maybe.

Authentic?
... Mayhaps.

Apologies if this has already made it here.

[Ravax]

Guys guys guys...

Someone pointed me in the direction of this video...



Look at the background image, and read the lyrics.. its just TOOOO similar to our god child / stargazer, etc.. soooo eerily similar its frigign weird.. and the video was uploaded 1 year ago!

[FrostByte-GER]

Icinix wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

I just noticed that in the beginning of the game, the kid is really ALWAYS standing right next to a Warning or Caution sign. No way this could have been ANYTHING else than intentional, it happens at least 4 times. Also, it just appears out of nowhere and starts running towards the building..

Besides the airduct one, what other warnings are there?

http://social.biowar...5/index/9946363 

and

adrianlocke647 wrote...

Heya all, haven't been keeping
tabs on this for the past 30 or so pages, but I just found something
else on GameFAQs. Not a whole lot of context given, and it could easily
be faked, but hey, why not share it?
http://i1115.photobu...31778596081.png (Not a clue how to link the actual picture into the post.)

Look at the model-name. Suspicious? Maybe. ../../../images/forum/emoticons/whistling.png

Authentic?
... Mayhaps. ../../../images/forum/emoticons/angry.png

Apologies if this has already made it here.

mind = blown 2 times....

I think this is our best proof! Nice guys, very nice find

Modifié par FrostByte-GER, 15 mars 2012 - 12:09 .

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

PIC OF SHEPARD IN RUINS

http://i305.photobuc...VVV/Shepard.jpg

Can someone help me explain if number 1 or 2 is true? I cant seem to pinpoint if shepard lies downwards or upwards. I always thought what may be the eye of a helmet was his lower and upper teeth , lying downwards.

Modifié par SomeoneStoleMyName, 15 mars 2012 - 12:11 .

[Earthborn_Shepard]

FrostByte-GER wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

I just noticed that in the beginning of the game, the kid is really ALWAYS standing right next to a Warning or Caution sign. No way this could have been ANYTHING else than intentional, it happens at least 4 times. Also, it just appears out of nowhere and starts running towards the building..

Besides the airduct one, what other warnings are there?

http://social.biowar...5/index/9946363 

mind = blown....

I know right?

BOOM goes the brain

[Elanor]

MysticFred wrote...

VanDex wrote...

MysticFred wrote...

At the risk of getting yelled at . .

What if the whole game is the ending? You see the results of your actions from ME1 & 2 throughout the game, and you do get a sense of closure for your past actions.
That still leaves the last 15 min unanswered but, I believe that's actually the beginning for something new, and not "the ending".

Be gentle please, just another idea.

Pretty much the same idea

https://twitter.com/...35137944670208 

Well I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks that.

For me it sounds little like grasping at straws. They won't admit that they screw it up, will they? 

[Kulin]

Icinix wrote...

Kulin wrote...

Rifneno wrote...
He DOES lie to you in every way.  Control = indoctrination.  Synth = indoctrination.  Destroy = he claims it'll destroy all synthetic life, very heavily implies that includes Shepard, and says it'll eventually lead to the complete destruction of ALL organic life FOREVER.  All we see is the Reapers drop dead, and if your EMS is high enough we get the "Shepard alive" scene.

But there is no proof that he lies. Its just a part of the indoctrination theory. 

But you are right. If he lies and if he is only a picture of your mind who is trying to visualize your inner conflict while trying to break the indoctrination, this would be right.

BUT there is a MAJOR logical flaw in this indoctrination theory. This flaw are the BAD endings. When you have very low EMS shepard is ALWAYS going to destroy the earth or with a little bit more EMS the reapers. You only get the decision to control the reapers or synthese with the reapers when you have high EMS.

So why should a indoctrinated shepard with a WEAK fleet and WEAK friends on his side always select the RIGHT thing?

Think about it! 

The Destroy ending with a high EMS doesn't just destroy Earth - its a fair assumption that wave of destruction is from every relay. Normandy is dead when it gets hit. Earth is dead when it gets hit. I would dare say every planet hit by that wave is dead.

Also - in order for the Reapers to take control - Shep needs to believe the Reapers or believe himself to die. As the EMS gets stronger, and Sheps belief is higher, Shep starts to doubt the Destroy ending being as final as the ghost implies. So they try to trick Shep, tempt shep with options that might waiver his resolve.

Please don't mix up the facts. Our base assumption is the indoctrination theory. This means shepard is NOT on the citadel. He is just dreaming that he is going up there. In his dream he is fighting the indoctrination. The theory is: by selecting the path to destroy the reapers Shepard is destroying the indoctrination and wakes up on earth.

My question is basically why is it easier for him to make the right decision if the EMS is lower and even easier if its the lowest.

Until 1750 EMS you have one choice and destroy the earth. Until 2800 EMS you have two choices and can destroy or control the reapers without destroying them. There are 3 choices if you have more than 2800 ems.

Think about it. Why is the decision EASIER if you have low EMS.

Im sorry, this does not work. If its only a dream and the EMS shows Shepards and his friends' "READYNESS" it must be easier for shepard to make the right decision, not harder by getting more story background(and potential lies) and more choices.

[Earthborn_Shepard]

I think it's been established that the "kid=harbinger-pic" is fake

[Psyro]

http://www.gamezone....d=108867&sys=29

It´s german but there a twitter stated

German: "Härtester Tag aller Zeiten. Ernsthaft, wenn ihr Leute wüsstet, was wir alles planen... ihr würdet eure Version von Mass Effect 3 für immer behalten wollen.""

Englisch" The toughest day ever. Seriously, if you people knew what we plan everything ... you would keep forever your version of Mass Effect 3.

[VanDex]

The picture with the "harbinger" child has already been posted several times and it's a fake.

[FrostByte-GER]

Psyro wrote...

http://www.gamezone....d=108867&sys=29

It´s german but there a twitter stated

German: "Härtester Tag aller Zeiten. Ernsthaft, wenn ihr Leute wüsstet, was wir alles planen... ihr würdet eure Version von Mass Effect 3 für immer behalten wollen.""

Englisch" The toughest day ever. Seriously, if you people knew what we plan everything ... you would keep forever your version of Mass Effect 3.

This has been posted so often....^^

[Lurchibald]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

I think it's been established that the "kid=harbinger-pic" is fake

Yep, I've posted the original before 

Lurchibald wrote...

Here is the original (including original filename)

[Tashakov]

VanDex wrote...

The picture with the "harbinger" child has already been posted several times and it's a fake.

Aww, really?

Hope = crushed.

*leaves to go sob in the shower*

Sorry for the false (repeated) alarm, guys and gals.

[Valk72]

The best argument for the indoctrination theory is in fact quite evident: The fact that the catalyst looks exactly like the kid who died on earth and that you see in your dream. Why else the catalyst would have this form if not to persuade Shepard?

[DarkFire77777]

[quote]CptData wrote...

[quote]Smiley556 wrote...

[quote]TheEllms wrote...

Problem with indoctrinated theory: The Prothean VI on Thessia (I think it was called Vendetta) seemed to be able to detect that Kai Leng was indoctrinated. Wouldn't it have said something if Shepard was indoctrinated?
If that was the case then could Vendetta have fed Shepard false information?[/quote]

Really, this question again? I'm getting so tired of answering it.
Kai Leng was indoctrinated, shepard was not. Infact, shepard is never indoctrinated if you choose the destroy option at the end. He only becomes indoctrinated if you choose control or synthesis.
The reason the prothean VI didnt detect shepard as being indoctrinated is because shepard was not indoctrinated when confronting the prothean VI. Its really that simple.

[/quote]

The above reply is very true:

The only way for the Indoctrination Theory to work, which in my mind it does work, is that Shepard is not indoctrinated yet until you choose either two of the wrong choices at the end of the game.  Throughout ME3, I believe Harbinger is trying to slowly indoctrinate Shepard, but there is no sign that he is fully indoctrinated at any points.  The indoctrination is not complete through out the story; it is only that Harbinger is trying to lure him through the process.  I believe the end of the game, for all the reasons stated in the forum, is Harbinger's last, BIG attempt to finally capture and indoctrinate Shepard.  

This is why this ending may be the biggest Role Play stunt/idea of gaming history.  Role play is about players making choices for their character.  Usually, we have some idea of what is going on in the game and what the consequences are of our decisions.  We don't always have this knowledge, but many times we do.  Now, for the first time in any game I've played.  You have to make the very decision that this character would have to make with no solid proof or knowing if you are about to make the right one or if you are still even in the "real" world or a hallucination.  This is true Role Play at its highest.

Saying that Shepard is indoctrinated during the game makes no sense to me.  It's like saying someone is an alcoholic after their first few drinks.  Could this person be walking the path to alcoholism?  Sure.  But decisions and boundaries a person places on his/herself could make it where alcoholism never becomes a reality.  Same here with Shepard.  He may be experiencing the luring of indoctrination throughout the game, but at the end, the player has a decision to make.  The "boundary" stated over and over through out the game is that you can't live in peace with the Reapers, you cannot control the Reapers.  There is only one true choice to end their threat -- destroy them or they will destroy you.  

Think I answered this one earlier: Shepard got indoctrinated earlier as displayed by his/her dreams. However, once s/he's awake, Shepard's willpower is able to keep indoctrination in check, maybe like it was for Saren at the very beginning. Since the story of ME3 gave a hell of blows against Shepard, his/her strength is failing at some points. In the end, it's a fight between Shepard's mind and indoctrination. If s/he goes for Control or Merge, you can consider it as "indoctrination wins" since both options were suggested by indoctrinated characters (Saren and TIM). The third ending, Destruction, is Shepard's (and Anderson's) path - and both were NOT indoctrinated for most parts of the game (or in case of Anderson, he never got indoctrinated at all).

I know this is long, but it's my two cents worth.

Modifié par DarkFire77777, 15 mars 2012 - 12:16 .

[FrostByte-GER]

VanDex wrote...

The picture with the "harbinger" child has already been posted several times and it's a fake.

NOOOOOO

Modifié par FrostByte-GER, 15 mars 2012 - 12:15 .

[PrinceOfFallout13]

i believe in the theory simply because they made one of the best games in the history of the company and every moment was top notch

and i doubt that they decided to make the last 15 mins like that seriously is like making the most delicious cake and then throwing it in the ground

they are planning something

[DangerSandler]

The best proof for indoctrination is the entire game really. I'm going through NG+ right now, and I'm noticing so many little subtle pokes at the idea that he could be indoctrinated. There's way to many outstanding facts that point to indoctrination to be coincidence.

[Icinix]

Kulin wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Kulin wrote...

Rifneno wrote...
He DOES lie to you in every way.  Control = indoctrination.  Synth = indoctrination.  Destroy = he claims it'll destroy all synthetic life, very heavily implies that includes Shepard, and says it'll eventually lead to the complete destruction of ALL organic life FOREVER.  All we see is the Reapers drop dead, and if your EMS is high enough we get the "Shepard alive" scene.

But there is no proof that he lies. Its just a part of the indoctrination theory. 

But you are right. If he lies and if he is only a picture of your mind who is trying to visualize your inner conflict while trying to break the indoctrination, this would be right.

BUT there is a MAJOR logical flaw in this indoctrination theory. This flaw are the BAD endings. When you have very low EMS shepard is ALWAYS going to destroy the earth or with a little bit more EMS the reapers. You only get the decision to control the reapers or synthese with the reapers when you have high EMS.

So why should a indoctrinated shepard with a WEAK fleet and WEAK friends on his side always select the RIGHT thing?

Think about it! 

The Destroy ending with a high EMS doesn't just destroy Earth - its a fair assumption that wave of destruction is from every relay. Normandy is dead when it gets hit. Earth is dead when it gets hit. I would dare say every planet hit by that wave is dead.

Also - in order for the Reapers to take control - Shep needs to believe the Reapers or believe himself to die. As the EMS gets stronger, and Sheps belief is higher, Shep starts to doubt the Destroy ending being as final as the ghost implies. So they try to trick Shep, tempt shep with options that might waiver his resolve.

Please don't mix up the facts. Our base assumption is the indoctrination theory. This means shepard is NOT on the citadel. He is just dreaming that he is going up there. In his dream he is fighting the indoctrination. The theory is: by selecting the path to destroy the reapers Shepard is destroying the indoctrination and wakes up on earth.

Not mixing up the facts - I'm saying he is dreaming - its a battle of wills, for the Reapers to take full control either A) Shep has to agree with them or Believe he is dead anyway and going to sacrifice everything to kill them.

My question is basically why is it easier for him to make the right decision if the EMS is lower and even easier if its the lowest.

Until 1750 EMS you have one choice and destroy the earth. Until 2800 EMS you have two choices and can destroy or control the reapers without destroying them. There are 3 choices if you have more than 2800 ems.

Think about it. Why is the decision EASIER if you have low EMS.

Im sorry, this does not work. If its only a dream and the EMS shows Shepards and his friends' "READYNESS" it must be easier for shepard to make the right decision, not harder by getting more story background(and potential lies) and more choices.

And I offered a theory that as Sheps belief grows (no matter your character, they seem to behave as though they don't believe the crucible is the end - but as the game goes on, belief grows) - they gain confidence they can win and its not all for nothing. Lower EMS means less belief, less hope, Shep believes they are dead either way. End. Of. Line. Reapers take control.

But by taking the destroy option when Shep believes (high EMS), Shep believes Earth will be saved, Sheps friends will be saved - perhaps even a slim chance Shep can survive.

I'm suggesting the EMS value itself is tied into Sheps belief. Low EMS = low belief, indoctrination. High EMS = High belief, fights indoctriation utnil the end.

Modifié par Icinix, 15 mars 2012 - 12:20 .

[Earthborn_Shepard]

DangerSandler wrote...

The best proof for indoctrination is the entire game really. I'm going through NG+ right now, and I'm noticing so many little subtle pokes at the idea that he could be indoctrinated. There's way to many outstanding facts that point to indoctrination to be coincidence.

Could you name some (except for those which were already mentioned)?

[RebelByDesign]

VanDex wrote...

MysticFred wrote...

At the risk of getting yelled at . .

What if the whole game is the ending? You see the results of your actions from ME1 & 2 throughout the game, and you do get a sense of closure for your past actions.
That still leaves the last 15 min unanswered but, I believe that's actually the beginning for something new, and not "the ending".

Be gentle please, just another idea.

Pretty much the same idea

https://twitter.com/...35137944670208 

But if the last 15 minutes invalidates the rest of the "ending" it's still an ill-conceived, outright bad conclusion.

[VanDex]

DangerSandler wrote...

The best proof for indoctrination is the entire game really. I'm going through NG+ right now, and I'm noticing so many little subtle pokes at the idea that he could be indoctrinated. There's way to many outstanding facts that point to indoctrination to be coincidence.

Or it could just be your brain rationalizing and attributing every tiny detail to the theory (no offense, just saying that that's what brains very often does). What are those "pokes" you speak of? I mean, apart from the kid scenes at the start. 

Modifié par VanDex, 15 mars 2012 - 12:23 .

[Earthborn_Shepard]

Just found a clip of James mentioning the hum sound...



... makes my spine tingle.. I'm pretty sure they pulled a "Kaidan" on us