57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Miss Vader]

It makes sense, because at the very end of the game- the cutscene with the star gazer and child- the child asks for another story about Shep and the Stargazer responds with an Ok, one more-- could this one more story be the continuation of Shep's adventure after waking up from being indoctrinated?

[Niemack Saarinen]

lookingglassmind wrote...


But it goddamned might be. Could be.

Glad people see what i saw  

[AlexMBrennan]

That would be Broken Steel

[krystalevenstar]

oh_saki wrote...

The one risk Bioware pulls with this is obviously losing a HUGE part of their fan base. I heard that Fallout 3 released a DLC post release that allowed your character to live after the ending or something? I didn't know about this, but I bought Fallout 3 when it first came out, played the game through the end and loved it, but the ending did depress me slightly. I haven't gone back to play the game since and I didn't know a DLC was released for it until I read about it literally yesterday.

If Bioware did intend for all this outrage to occur, only to release a DLC after the fact with the 'true ending', there's a big chance that so many people would be outraged or at least apathetic, that they wouldn't even download and play it, maybe not even know it exists like I didn't know the FO3 DLC existed.

Yeah, Broken Steel starts with you waking up 2 weeks after the end of Fallout 3... But anyways, they run that risk, but most of the people who bought the game are probably going to be in the know about something like this once it's announced.

[Eumerin]

Lugaidster wrote...

The device for indoctrination could be the IFF module installed in ME2. And that's why Vega complained by the sound.

Can't be.  The Prothean VI has the ability to detect indoctrination in Organics (it recognizes that Kai Leng is suffering from Indoctrination) and automatically shuts down in their presence as a safety feature.  But it has no issues talking with Shepard.

Ergo, the IFF hasn't Indoctrinated Shepard.

[AlexMBrennan]

Whilst I don't necessarily think that it was a hallucination, I would not take much of the ending at face value.

[DifferentD17]

rogueagent6 wrote...

legislacerator wrote...

There's one thing here I haven't seen mentioned, and maybe I'm just reading too much into things, but think about the definition of the word "crucible." Other than something to melt metal in, a crucible is also a test or trial that is usually incredibly difficult.

Does anyone see where I'm going with this?

Excellent point.

In fact, the Marine Corps added a portion to their boot camp named the Crucible after I graduated in 1995.


I know it's kinda off topic, but here's the wiki link if anyone's interested

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Marine_Corps_Recruit_Training#The_Crucible

The final push is called "the reaper" WTF!!?

[krystalevenstar]

Eumerin wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

The device for indoctrination could be the IFF module installed in ME2. And that's why Vega complained by the sound.

Can't be.  The Prothean VI has the ability to detect indoctrination in Organics (it recognizes that Kai Leng is suffering from Indoctrination) and automatically shuts down in their presence as a safety feature.  But it has no issues talking with Shepard.

Ergo, the IFF hasn't Indoctrinated Shepard.

This could be explained away by the fact that Shepard is
A. Technically a reanimated corpse
B. Has enough synthetic parts inside that maybe the VI can't tell she's indoctrinated

[BS Veyron]

I just want to say thankyou to this community. This topic alone has renewed my love for the game that was shattered by the ending. I was a victim of being upset by there not being a cut and dry ending. Now that iv seen these ideas, it is really starting to become clear to me.

[Drake_1000]

lookingglassmind wrote...

comrade gando wrote...

lookingglassmind wrote...

If you notice while walking up the ramp to get to the control panel on the left side it says 1M1..on the right it says 1M1 but its backwards- the 1's are completely mirrored and backwards. Logic: in this dream: whats RIGHT is skewed, its wrong, its not REAL. I.e. The right thing in your mind to do is represented as "WRONG" in this ending (dream) --- You get a renegade option (RED) to shoot TIM to save anderson?? really? im sorry thats paragon.. but see.. its indoctrination-- its making you think its WRONG to shoot TIM to save anderson.

You just literally made my spine crawl with awesome. I got goosebumps.

This is a PERFECT example of BioWare trying to engage in metagaming -- making the experience real. Trying to indoctrinate the player.

there you go lookingglass, this seems exactly what bioware is intending to do. giving us a false ending to give the impression that the reapers are indoctrinating the player. VERY effective on bioware's part if this is true.

It's the most badass direction that could exist. If BioWare seriously did that sh*t, they can have all of my money. All of it. It's so hardcore. To sacrifice all to allow the player to 'experience' indoctrination? Blows my mind apart.

Well i dont see it the same way. I have taken some vacation to beat the game and it will be for nothing ?
If all of this is true i will just say i miss the old days when you pay for a game you get the game end of the story.

[comrade gando]

it's freakin' ingenious! I get it now, this ending is definitely a reaper indoctrination trick that goes beyond just the player character shepard, it affects the actual PLAYER, making him believe that this is really how it should end. Shepard and player both unite forces against the reapers' indocrination, well played bioware, VERY well played!

[omgBAMF]

Lugaidster wrote...

I like this interpretation. However I don't see them expanding the ending. The cannon ending is destroy with a high EMS (for me according to everything that's been discussed here). But I don't see them expanding after that. I mean, c'mon. That would mean that there's actually only one ending and all the renegade buffs would want to have an alternate ending as well.

Maybe I'm simplifying everything at this point, I don't know.

Cheers

If the last sequence IS a dream/hallucination then Bioware can take it in any direction after you wake up.  They could even introduce an ending where your ingame choices do matter.

[oh_saki]

krystalevenstar wrote...

Eumerin wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

The device for indoctrination could be the IFF module installed in ME2. And that's why Vega complained by the sound.

Can't be.  The Prothean VI has the ability to detect indoctrination in Organics (it recognizes that Kai Leng is suffering from Indoctrination) and automatically shuts down in their presence as a safety feature.  But it has no issues talking with Shepard.

Ergo, the IFF hasn't Indoctrinated Shepard.

This could be explained away by the fact that Shepard is
A. Technically a reanimated corpse
B. Has enough synthetic parts inside that maybe the VI can't tell she's indoctrinated

But Kai Leng is himself brought back from the brink of death and is part synthetic. If the VI works for an indoctrinated and part synthetic Shep, then it should do the same with Kai Leng. I don't think that Shep was indoctrinated prior to the attempt to retake Earth, it seems like a stretch to me.

[omgBAMF]

Drake_1000 wrote...

Well i dont see it the same way. I have taken some vacation to beat the game and it will be for nothing ?
If all of this is true i will just say i miss the old days when you pay for a game you get the game end of the story.

yeah... those days are long gone, I'm afraid.

[Lord Nikon 001]

If this is really a dream and Bioware has a card or two still up their sleave regarding the endings, I can't see them waiting too long before the show us what they have planned. Otherwise the frustration anger and negativity will have time to really settle in and any release of a "real" ending could seriously backfire. They'll hafta be very careful of the monster they have created here....

[AgentMulder5]

monkspider wrote...

Sorry if someone else brought this up, I have been trying my best to keep up with this thread but it is just moving so fast. Apparently the Bioware Community manager says she interpreted the ending as a "dying hallucination" on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/#!/JessicaMerizan

Only thing though is if this were a dying hallucination then it begs the question, what happens with the Reapers? If Shepard is dying and imagines all this, what really happens with the Crucible and the Reapers? And if Shepard were dying, why wouldn't this hallucination have some kind of involvement form their LI. Five minutes before Garrus and Shep were having a heart to heart, you'd think any dying dreams would have him in there somewhere.

Modifié par AgentMulder5, 11 mars 2012 - 07:26 .

[lavosslayer]

oh_saki wrote...

krystalevenstar wrote...

Eumerin wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

The device for indoctrination could be the IFF module installed in ME2. And that's why Vega complained by the sound.

Can't be.  The Prothean VI has the ability to detect indoctrination in Organics (it recognizes that Kai Leng is suffering from Indoctrination) and automatically shuts down in their presence as a safety feature.  But it has no issues talking with Shepard.

Ergo, the IFF hasn't Indoctrinated Shepard.

This could be explained away by the fact that Shepard is
A. Technically a reanimated corpse
B. Has enough synthetic parts inside that maybe the VI can't tell she's indoctrinated

But Kai Leng is himself brought back from the brink of death and is part synthetic. If the VI works for an indoctrinated and part synthetic Shep, then it should do the same with Kai Leng. I don't think that Shep was indoctrinated prior to the attempt to retake Earth, it seems like a stretch to me.

I wouldn't say Kai Lang was ever on the brink of death...he had both of his legs crippled by Anderson but it wasn't like he was almost dead...and certainly not comparable to Shepard...

also Shepard began the Indoctrination Process in the Arrival DLC due to exposure to Object Rho...(we really need to get this stuff stickied in one central place cause its getting kinda frustrating having to repost this every 5 or so pages...however I am glad there are new faces showing up embracing the whole idea!)

Modifié par lavosslayer, 11 mars 2012 - 07:28 .

[lookingglassmind]

comrade gando wrote...

it's freakin' ingenious! I get it now, this ending is definitely a reaper indoctrination trick that goes beyond just the player character shepard, it affects the actual PLAYER, making him believe that this is really how it should end. Shepard and player both unite forces against the reapers' indocrination, well played bioware, VERY well played!

Imagine the awesome if it actually were true...!

If you choose Control or (potentially) Synthesis, then you yourself have fallen prey to indoctrination. How powerful is that? How real is that? I can't think of a better way to hand ME's celebrated and proverbial 'player choice' directly to the player. Truly making Shepard a creation of the player.

I don't know. It sounds insane, but beautiful.

[Eumerin]

krystalevenstar wrote...

Eumerin wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

The device for indoctrination could be the IFF module installed in ME2. And that's why Vega complained by the sound.

Can't be.  The Prothean VI has the ability to detect indoctrination in Organics (it recognizes that Kai Leng is suffering from Indoctrination) and automatically shuts down in their presence as a safety feature.  But it has no issues talking with Shepard.

Ergo, the IFF hasn't Indoctrinated Shepard.

This could be explained away by the fact that Shepard is
A. Technically a reanimated corpse
B. Has enough synthetic parts inside that maybe the VI can't tell she's indoctrinated

Sounds an awful lot like a Husk.  Are you saying that the VI wouldn't be able to tell that a Husk is Indoctrinated?

[omgBAMF]

AgentMulder5 wrote...

monkspider wrote...

Sorry if someone else brought this up, I have been trying my best to keep up with this thread but it is just moving so fast. Apparently the Bioware Community manager says she interpreted the ending as a "dying hallucination" on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/#!/JessicaMerizan

Only thing though is if this were a dying hallucination then it begs the question, what happens with the Reapers? If Shepard is dying and imagines all this, what really happens with the Crucible and the Reapers. And if Shepard were dying, why wouldn't this hallucination have some kind of involvement form their LI. Five minutes before Garrus and Shep were having a heart to heart, you'd think any dying dreams would have him in there somewhere.

My thought would be that Shep wakes up a few minutes after getting blasted and then continues to the citadel to actually start the Crucible, which might have a completely different outcome than those we were shown.

[mahlerbone]

Lord Nikon 001 wrote...

If this is really a dream and Bioware has a card or two still up their sleave regarding the endings, I can't see them waiting too long before the show us what they have planned. Otherwise the frustration anger and negativity will have time to really settle in and any release of a "real" ending could seriously backfire. They'll hafta be very careful of the monster they have created here....

i totally agree. they need to say something soon before people start selling the game back. if we dont hear anything within a week after the euro release i'll totally lose hope...

[BS Veyron]

oh_saki wrote...

krystalevenstar wrote...

Eumerin wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

The device for indoctrination could be the IFF module installed in ME2. And that's why Vega complained by the sound.

Can't be.  The Prothean VI has the ability to detect indoctrination in Organics (it recognizes that Kai Leng is suffering from Indoctrination) and automatically shuts down in their presence as a safety feature.  But it has no issues talking with Shepard.

Ergo, the IFF hasn't Indoctrinated Shepard.

This could be explained away by the fact that Shepard is
A. Technically a reanimated corpse
B. Has enough synthetic parts inside that maybe the VI can't tell she's indoctrinated

But Kai Leng is himself brought back from the brink of death and is part synthetic. If the VI works for an indoctrinated and part synthetic Shep, then it should do the same with Kai Leng. I don't think that Shep was indoctrinated prior to the attempt to retake Earth, it seems like a stretch to me.

Shep is extreamly strong willed, remember what Liara says in ME1, "a lesser mind would have been destroyed by the Beacon."  Shep was able to resist indoctrination up until the point he/she was gravely wounded and was struggling just to stay alive.

[Nefelius]

 Totally ridiculous. I don't think it really needs an explanation why.
But still first off do you really think that this would be a proper ending for the most anticipated game for the last few years? Imagine if Luke woke up at some point in Episode 6 and realized he's just a 12 years school boy that had fallen asleep during doing his homework.

Then there was a comment on twitter that was linked somewhere in one of the rage threads here from an dev stating "look at this on a bright side, it's not dooming the galaxy to death - it's actually freeing it from predetermined mass relay way of evolving"

And the last one the very idea of this dream theory is a pure prove of a denial stage.

Period.

[Kabraxal]

Nefelius wrote...

 Totally ridiculous. I don't think it really needs an explanation why.
But still first off do you really think that this would be a proper ending for the most anticipated game for the last few years? Imagine if Luke woke up at some point in Episode 6 and realized he's just a 12 years school boy that had fallen asleep during doing his homework.

Then there was a comment on twitter that was linked somewhere in one of the rage threads here from an dev stating "look at this on a bright side, it's not dooming the galaxy to death - it's actually freeing it from predetermined mass relay way of evolving"

And the last one the very idea of this dream theory is a pure prove of a denial stage.

Period.

REfute it... point by point.  Please.  We welcome the discussion.

Lurked for a bit myself... when starting a second run I started noticing things with that little boy that started making me wonder and I went on a research and load binge to start picking up any clues.  

And I was one that was relatively happy with the ending, just felt that something was slightly "off".  Started looking into it and things started popping up that was just not quite right to start pointing at something.  So far, that something is leading towards Indoctrination.  Wrong, right... don't know, but there is something to it.

Modifié par Kabraxal, 11 mars 2012 - 07:31 .

[omgBAMF]

mahlerbone wrote...

Lord Nikon 001 wrote...

If this is really a dream and Bioware has a card or two still up their sleave regarding the endings, I can't see them waiting too long before the show us what they have planned. Otherwise the frustration anger and negativity will have time to really settle in and any release of a "real" ending could seriously backfire. They'll hafta be very careful of the monster they have created here....

i totally agree. they need to say something soon before people start selling the game back. if we dont hear anything within a week after the euro release i'll totally lose hope...

i think the Japanese version of ME3 isn't released until 3/15/2012