57139 réponses à ce sujet

[keith123456789]

the only thing i ever wanted was closure. to see what happens to liara and garrus. bioware thats all i want even a happy ending if you are so kind to do.

[Fame-KIllz]

Please lord be true. I cannot accept the current endings.

[PrinceOfFallout13]

i wish more people believed this theory

i have been to other topics and people have ignored this

the 1m1 in reverse (seriously wtf are human numbers doing in a part of the citadel no one has ever been to?) the shot wound of shep on the same place as anderson, the survival of re entry and explosion in space, the tweets (they are even waiting for people to finish the game before talking more about it) that's proof right there.

[paralitos]

when i finished the game.. i liked the ending and i honestly thought that the best ending was synthesis then control and the worst was the destroy... after reading all these debates i have to admit i feel like i was intoctrinated... i can hear it in my head... make it stop

Human you 've changed nothing....

[Sierra163]

The 'final hours' thing just came out for iOS. Anyone able to pick it apart for hints? I would but I don't have an iOS device.

[Tailen]

Doctor Moustache wrote...

Warhawk7137 wrote...

Actually I just realized why this would be a brilliant move on BioWare's part, and would mitigate the fact that we didn't get the full game.

Imagine if the indoctrination theory was true, but the game continued after you pick the destroy ending, because that's the one that breaks you free from reaper control. That information would be all over the web as soon at the game was released, and everyone would know what the "right" choice was. There wouldn't be any dramatic tension. You'd just be waiting for the kid to stop talking so you could continue with the game by picking the right choice.

But, as it is now, we're agonizing about which choice is the right one, because they're all so hard to swallow. By not making it clear it's indoctrination, BioWare, in this scenario, is really putting us in the shoes (or combat boots) of Commander Shepard, unsure whether this is real or a dream, unsure of what the ramifications of the decision are.

Exactly.  Although I'm not yet sure if the choice itself actually matters so much as simply falling for the illusion. 

We are experiencing the same problem Shepard is experiencing in real time.  The same confusion and doubt and frustration.  They WANT us to go over it again and again in our heads, examine the facts and figure out the truth, because that is what Shepard has to do.  We must realize its a dream before we can wake up from it, otherwise we're trapped in it.  If the game had just picked right back up after the decision then we wouldn't feel any of this, it would just be a ****ty "gotcha!" moment and nobody would even really remember it in the logn run.

By giving us this interactive, real time experience of the ending before the real ending comes, they are making it far more memorable.  Thats exactly what Casey said he wanted. 


Course in a few months I might look back at how full of **** I was, in utter disappointment that the indoc theory was wrong and Bioware actually did **** up.  But... I'm pretty sure.  Plot holes the size of jupiter that line up to form a perfect connect the dots drawing... no way its just coincidense. 

Right along my train of thought.

I also wanted to add an idea to the mix, which I'm not sure that I've seen approached from this angle yet... I think one of the biggest clues that BioWare is giving us is the completely obvious and shameless use of the "deus ex machina" plot device.

Keep in mind I'm not referencing the game series "Deus Ex", but the actual plot device whereby "a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event, character, ability, or object".

To me, that's BioWare flat-out saying "Really, guys?  You think we'll end it with a cliched plot device?"

I mean, they're proven masters of storytelling.  This would be about the equivalent of "Inception" ending with DiCaprio waking up to a phone call from Chris Nolan asking if he wants to star in a new movie about dreams, and Leo looks straight into the camera -- breaking the fourth wall -- and says something oh-so witty and charming (*gasps* Leo!).

In all seriousness, though, that is not how BioWare will end Shepard's saga.  With cliche.

[sargon1986]

Guys... I am 100% sure this theory is true. The final battle is still ahead of us, my friends.

[CptData]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

Yep.  This is exactly where I got to, also.  My first reaction to the ending was "What crap!"  Now I'm like, "Whoa."  But if this isn't really their intention, I will be back to "What crap!" again.   

I just thought it was really, really odd to chew out TIM for being indoctrinated, then a few seconds later, being presented with the option, "So the Illusive Man was right."  My spider sense went off.  I was like, "NO!  Shep would never think that!  Anderson is wrong, but the Illusive Man was right?"  For a second, I was struck with self doubt, thinking maybe this was supposed to be the ironic ending.  I simply do not accept this.  So now I am believing Shep is still in London, the war is still on, but now the Reapers are going to be on the run because they failed to eliminate the first person who can end their 'solution'.

There is still more story to tell.  We still don't know where the Reapers came from, and what happened to their 'creators'.  Of course we can surmise they probably harvested their creators, but is it really what it seems?  The story of the Quarians/Geth turned out to be a lot different than we first believed in ME1.

I believe the Crucible/Citadel/Catalyst did its work, regardless of Shepard's decision. Shepard never entered the beam, never talked to Anderson and TIM on the Citadel, never talked to the kid and never decided anything - since it all happened only in his/her mind, symbolizing the struggle between free will and indoctrination.


In BEST case, the Reapers got destroyed, the Mass Relays are still intact, maybe deactivated, but otherwise still working.
in WORST case, the Reapers just retreated, the cycle continues in 50k years and the Relays are destroyed.
Other cases may be between both extremes like "cycle will continue in 50k years but the Relays are still active" - in that case, galactic society may prepare themselves to take down the Reapers ...

[keith123456789]

Remember When harbinger say you resist but you will fail adds proof to the indoctrination theory

[_Flipp_]

You know guys, ME3 released here on March 8th, in the USA it released on March 6th ... I was like totally jealous you could finish it up there earlier then me. Then I heard it releases in Japan even a week later ( today ) and i pitied those poor guys to have to wait so long.... Now everything turned - we are the fools griefing for some information from Bioware while they are just waiting for the Japans to finish....they wont have to suffer what we have to suffer right now ^^

On the other hand - this is an expierence I dont want to miss...even if its hard, this will eventually write Video gaming history!

[CptData]

keith123456789 wrote...

Remember When harbinger say you resist but you will fail adds proof to the indoctrination theory

Not really. That statement points more or less at "conventional warfare". Harby knows even an united fleet can't bring in the firepower needed to take down ALL Reapers. They might free Earth in one battle but would left in a so weakened state they can't do another attempt to free Palaven, Thessia and other homeworlds. In short: with conventional warfare, Shepard can't change anything on the long run. I'm sure the Protheans already destroyed several Reapers in their hundreds of years lasting Reaper War, but even they simply were defeated in the long run.

[Warhawk7137]

FWIW, I think this youtube video:



Which is extremely well done, doesn't so much prove that the theory is true, as much as it demonstrates how, if the theory were true, the ending would be frickin' awesome.

Seriously, that video gave me chills.  All the quotes he selected to lay over the scenes from the ending were bloody perfect.

Modifié par Warhawk7137, 15 mars 2012 - 06:47 .

[Rifneno]

keith123456789 wrote...

Remember When harbinger say you resist but you will fail adds proof to the indoctrination theory

People opposed to the theory claim he means resist as in a military resistance.  Which admittedly has some merit, but it's still odd wording considering.  Especially since "resist" is how Shepard kept wording it to Saren when he was trying to get him to break indoctrination.  I think anyway, been a long time since I replayed ME1.

Speaking of which, does anyone remember what the colonists on Eden Prime said?  I know at least one of them was half-mad from Sovereign and I can't help but wonder if there might be another similarity referenced that far back.

[Earthborn_Shepard]

Mac Walters on the Star Child/Reapers
"Originally, with the catalyst, the star child at the end of the game, I had written that much more in the guise of a investigative style conversation, where there is something he tells you but then, you get to ask a bunch of questions and you get your questions answered. But then me and Casey talked and decided, lets keep the conversation "High level". Give you the details that you need to know, but don't get into the stuff that you don't need to know. Like "How long have they been reaping?" You don't need to know the answers to the mass effect universe. So we intentionally left those out"


DAFUQ

[_Flipp_]

GoldenSkans9 wrote...

Unless we're still being trolled, Hopes Crushed.

http://social.biowar...5/index/9999272

No..nonono....no..noo....can't be...I deny this!!!

Btw. where do I see my squad dead? I mean first of all I didnt see them in front of the beam , second of all I see them walking out of the normandy on the jungle planet. - asuming this is the "final end" , they cant be dead..?

But that mentioned ( and deleted ) scene, where they both stumble and fall and get killed...omg if that happend I wouldve shot myself...

[KroganBillie]

Jere85 wrote...

more tweet replies coming in about them giving more info about the endings soon... we can only hope... and wait.

And hold the line.

[CptData]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

Mac Walters on the Star Child/Reapers
"Originally, with the catalyst, the star child at the end of the game, I had written that much more in the guise of a investigative style conversation, where there is something he tells you but then, you get to ask a bunch of questions and you get your questions answered. But then me and Casey talked and decided, lets keep the conversation "High level". Give you the details that you need to know, but don't get into the stuff that you don't need to know. Like "How long have they been reaping?" You don't need to know the answers to the mass effect universe. So we intentionally left those out"


DAFUQ

Can't really see why this is upsetting news tbh.

The entire end talk is more or less okay as long as it's seen as a dream / indoctrinated dream sequence. Mac doesn't say "there is no dream", right?

[Rifneno]

_Flipp_ wrote...

You know guys, ME3 released here on March 8th, in the USA it released on March 6th ... I was like totally jealous you could finish it up there earlier then me.

I think I probably failed harder on this than anyone.  My ISP decided at some point to stop taking their automatic withdrawals.  And didn't tell me.  And I got cut off for non-payment on the 5th.  They did it physically so it was a couple days to get it back up and running.  I spent the 6th with a copy of ME3CE in my hands and I couldn't play it because I had no internet for it to verify it was past the release date and legit.  ...  You haven't seen nerdrage if you didn't see me on March 6th.  

[Vhalkyrie]

CptData wrote...

I believe the Crucible/Citadel/Catalyst did its work, regardless of Shepard's decision. Shepard never entered the beam, never talked to Anderson and TIM on the Citadel, never talked to the kid and never decided anything - since it all happened only in his/her mind, symbolizing the struggle between free will and indoctrination.

The Crucible/Citadel could not work, if no one ever reached the beam.  Shepard was knocked out before they could reach it, which triggered the final indoctrination attempt by the Reapers.  A last ditch attempt to save themselves.  I don't think Shep resisting indoctrination alone would simply end the war.

Modifié par Vhalkyrie, 15 mars 2012 - 06:55 .

[jsl1016]

Everyone...just by constantly reading & replying here...We've all been indoctrinated,,,

There is no way, at this point, most of us won't pay for a DLC ending that brings resolution.

[CptData]

_Flipp_ wrote...

GoldenSkans9 wrote...

Unless we're still being trolled, Hopes Crushed.

http://social.biowar...5/index/9999272

No..nonono....no..noo....can't be...I deny this!!!

Btw. where do I see my squad dead? I mean first of all I didnt see them in front of the beam , second of all I see them walking out of the normandy on the jungle planet. - asuming this is the "final end" , they cant be dead..?

But that mentioned ( and deleted ) scene, where they both stumble and fall and get killed...omg if that happend I wouldve shot myself...

Guess it's a scene that was planned to happen with a low EMS. I never saw dead bodies of Liara or Ashley (my final squadmates) after getting hit by the beam - since my EMS nearly scratched 6k mark. Therefore I believe you can save your final squad with a high EMS rating.

[redBadger14]

GoldenSkans9 wrote...

Merizans tweet last night:

The ME3 Twitter is not a person. I should know, I wrote the guidelines It's why we RT our employees - to celebrate ppl!

She is saying its multiple people, not one person. The Mass Effect 3 twitter account is used by multiple BioWare employees, just like the Xbox Support twitter. That is done so they can properly handle large amounts of reply traffic.

[IronSabbath88]

GoldenSkans9 wrote...

Unless we're still being trolled, Hopes Crushed.

http://social.biowar...5/index/9999272

Here's the thing. Nowhere there does it say that those endings are conclusive. Nor does it say that it's the end flat out.

What they were going for was speculation. The evidence was all there infront of the player. What they got was people jumping to conclusions.

[Earthborn_Shepard]

And even in November the gameplay team was still experimenting with an endgame sequence where players would suddenly lose control of Shepard's movement and fall under full reaper control. (This sequence was dropped because the gaemplay mechanic proved too troublesome to implement alongside dialogue choices).


This. would have been. ****ing awesome.