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Was the ending a hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory


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#13651
IronSabbath88

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Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

And even in November the gameplay team was still experimenting with an endgame sequence where players would suddenly lose control of Shepard's movement and fall under full reaper control. (This sequence was dropped because the gaemplay mechanic proved too troublesome to implement alongside dialogue choices).


This. would have been. ****ing awesome.


So they did it differently... sounds familiar to me.

#13652
byne

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Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

And even in November the gameplay team was still experimenting with an endgame sequence where players would suddenly lose control of Shepard's movement and fall under full reaper control. (This sequence was dropped because the gaemplay mechanic proved too troublesome to implement alongside dialogue choices).


This. would have been. ****ing awesome.


How would losing control of Shepard's movement have been too troublesome to implement? ITS CALLED A CUTSCENE BIOWARE! YOU DO THEM ALL THE TIME!

#13653
Flammenpanzer

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GoldenSkans9 wrote...

Unless we're still being trolled, Hopes Crushed.

http://social.biowar...5/index/9999272


nooooooooooooooo.com/

#13654
CptData

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Vhalkyrie wrote...

CptData wrote...

I believe the Crucible/Citadel/Catalyst did its work, regardless of Shepard's decision. Shepard never entered the beam, never talked to Anderson and TIM on the Citadel, never talked to the kid and never decided anything - since it all happened only in his/her mind, symbolizing the struggle between free will and indoctrination.


The Crucible/Citadel could not work, if no one ever reached the beam.  Shepard was knocked out before they could reach it, which triggered the final indoctrination attempt by the Reapers.  A last ditch attempt to save themselves.


Who says the CC can't work without Shepard's influence?
Heck with it, no one knows how that thing works. Why's a button needed someone has to push? As I said, the CC could work without Shepard's influence. The reason why it didn't do anything after docking could be "charging up the main weapon" - whatever that weapon is.

Whatever, think that's more or less an academic question. Maybe you're right and the CC didn't do anything and Shepard still has to enter that one. However, this time everything could be entirely different so s/he don't has to decide between three options. Maybe there's just ONE single button in the end - and that button simply sends the Reapers away or deactivates them, without killing the Relays.
All Shepard has to do is to fight his/her way to that button.

Modifié par CptData, 15 mars 2012 - 06:59 .


#13655
Guest_PDesign_*

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#13656
Rifneno

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_Flipp_ wrote...

GoldenSkans9 wrote...

Unless we're still being trolled, Hopes Crushed.

http://social.biowar...5/index/9999272


No..nonono....no..noo....can't be...I deny this!!!

Btw. where do I see my squad dead? I mean first of all I didnt see them in front of the beam , second of all I see them walking out of the normandy on the jungle planet. - asuming this is the "final end" , they cant be dead..?

But that mentioned ( and deleted ) scene, where they both stumble and fall and get killed...omg if that happend I wouldve shot myself...


Which is exactly why I think it was intended as a dream sequence even then.  Two of the most popular characters, both of them LI's (Liara even from the first game!), getting cut down by Harbinger?  I don't buy it.  I don't think they would've done that.  Thane's death was unavoidable but we knew from the beginning it was going to happen and he went out a great hero as he should.  His death had purpose and the galaxy was the better for his last actions.  Ditto for Mordin.  We knew he was about to drop dead of old age and his (avoidable I might add, even if only under very specific and crappy circumstances) death cured the genophage.  He couldn't have gone out with a more awesome end.  There's no meaning to the deaths that are described there.  Nothing would change if Garrus and Liara were just on the Normandy having a drink and talking about the good old days instead of getting char-broiled.  That would have greatly, greatly angered a lot of fans.

#13657
Noob451

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Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

And even in November the gameplay team was still experimenting with an endgame sequence where players would suddenly lose control of Shepard's movement and fall under full reaper control. (This sequence was dropped because the gaemplay mechanic proved too troublesome to implement alongside dialogue choices).


This. would have been. ****ing awesome.


indeed

#13658
Rinji the Bearded

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I don't know what if any that he said or wrote really disproves the indoctrination theory.

Hell, I can't even read half of what he said because his handwriting is freaking atrocious.

#13659
Vhalkyrie

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GoldenSkans9 wrote...

Unless we're still being trolled, Hopes Crushed.

http://social.biowar...5/index/9999272


Well that's it.  I thought the indoctrination theory was awesome.  Now I'm full of doubt again.

Not happy.  :pinched:

#13660
FrostByte-GER

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Q: What did you think of the ending? Is this addressed in the story?

A: I've seen the uproar
online about the ending and understand the fan perspective. Personally I
respect the creative choices the team made and had no problems with how
the story ended -- it made you feel something, even if that feeling was
uncomfortable.

The Final Hours addresses the challenges BioWare faces
in writing a story with defined parameters in a game environment where
players want to feel like they have choice. Ultimately your opinion on
the ending will depend on who you see as the "author" of Mass Effect's
story -- BioWare or the player.

The ending of the game is discussed in the App and
there are some notes from the team about how they were thinking about
the ending. Since this story was completed before the public release of
the game, I do not address the fan petitions or reaction. I hope to
update the story with a new chapter on this down the road.


Dude, theres still hope!

#13661
Moshaaver

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Rifneno wrote...

_Flipp_ wrote...

GoldenSkans9 wrote...

Unless we're still being trolled, Hopes Crushed.

http://social.biowar...5/index/9999272


No..nonono....no..noo....can't be...I deny this!!!

Btw. where do I see my squad dead? I mean first of all I didnt see them in front of the beam , second of all I see them walking out of the normandy on the jungle planet. - asuming this is the "final end" , they cant be dead..?

But that mentioned ( and deleted ) scene, where they both stumble and fall and get killed...omg if that happend I wouldve shot myself...


Which is exactly why I think it was intended as a dream sequence even then.  Two of the most popular characters, both of them LI's (Liara even from the first game!), getting cut down by Harbinger?  I don't buy it.  I don't think they would've done that.  Thane's death was unavoidable but we knew from the beginning it was going to happen and he went out a great hero as he should.  His death had purpose and the galaxy was the better for his last actions.  Ditto for Mordin.  We knew he was about to drop dead of old age and his (avoidable I might add, even if only under very specific and crappy circumstances) death cured the genophage.  He couldn't have gone out with a more awesome end.  There's no meaning to the deaths that are described there.  Nothing would change if Garrus and Liara were just on the Normandy having a drink and talking about the good old days instead of getting char-broiled.  That would have greatly, greatly angered a lot of fans.


This. QTF.

I am not worried really, I think they pulled the best bait and switch ever, and while they have yet to give us the final chapter, they wouldn't let our favourite characters just get killed in two seconds unless you really messed up (a la Mass Effect 2, I didn't lose a single person even the super minor people like Jacob who was really only in 1 and a 1/2 games) 

Have faith, it's all we have.

#13662
IronSabbath88

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How does Shepard being indoctrinated differ much from that?

It doesn't. Not much anyway. What they didn't tell you is that they went with a different route.

Also, repeated from the last page, where do those pages of scribble from Mac indicate that those ARE the ENDINGS? Again, it doesn't, it just interprets it.

Not to mention the speculation thing at the bottom. That's what they were going for. Speculation. They wanted the fans to catch on to what was happening on their own. Instead the fans decided to jump to conclusions without paying attention to the evidence. Until this thread came along, that is.

I hate to say it but most of the fans didn't even bother to pay attention to the signs.

#13663
yuhime

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Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

And even in November the gameplay team was still experimenting with an endgame sequence where players would suddenly lose control of Shepard's movement and fall under full reaper control. (This sequence was dropped because the gaemplay mechanic proved too troublesome to implement alongside dialogue choices).


This. would have been. ****ing awesome.


I agree fully. There should be ending where Shepard is defeated this way or another. Like he could die in ME2. I was so motivated to do everything right so Shepard could win this and live, damn it! And even if he realy had to die I wanted to see that Earth and his friends and squat survived thanks to his sacrifice. Is it really to much to ask for?

#13664
byne

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Q: What did you think of the ending? Is this addressed in the story?

A: I've seen the uproar online about the ending and understand the fan perspective. Personally I respect the creative choices the team made and had no problems with how the story ended -- it made you feel something, even if that feeling was uncomfortable.


I dont know about that, when i first beat the game all I felt was crushing emptiness and disappointment, which I sincerely doubt is what they were going for.

#13665
_Flipp_

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Rifneno wrote...

_Flipp_ wrote...

GoldenSkans9 wrote...

Unless we're still being trolled, Hopes Crushed.

http://social.biowar...5/index/9999272


No..nonono....no..noo....can't be...I deny this!!!

Btw. where do I see my squad dead? I mean first of all I didnt see them in front of the beam , second of all I see them walking out of the normandy on the jungle planet. - asuming this is the "final end" , they cant be dead..?

But that mentioned ( and deleted ) scene, where they both stumble and fall and get killed...omg if that happend I wouldve shot myself...


Which is exactly why I think it was intended as a dream sequence even then.  Two of the most popular characters, both of them LI's (Liara even from the first game!), getting cut down by Harbinger?  I don't buy it.  I don't think they would've done that.  Thane's death was unavoidable but we knew from the beginning it was going to happen and he went out a great hero as he should.  His death had purpose and the galaxy was the better for his last actions.  Ditto for Mordin.  We knew he was about to drop dead of old age and his (avoidable I might add, even if only under very specific and crappy circumstances) death cured the genophage.  He couldn't have gone out with a more awesome end.  There's no meaning to the deaths that are described there.  Nothing would change if Garrus and Liara were just on the Normandy having a drink and talking about the good old days instead of getting char-broiled.  That would have greatly, greatly angered a lot of fans.


Quite a point you're making there ...I mean sad/bad endings are one thing...but see your favourite characters just getting burned ( after you spent like 100 hours with them ) ... damn... I once watched an anime where almost every1 you liked died at the end...I fell into deep depression for like a week...maybe I should get a psychologist...

#13666
CptData

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Vhalkyrie wrote...

GoldenSkans9 wrote...

Unless we're still being trolled, Hopes Crushed.

http://social.biowar...5/index/9999272


Well that's it.  I thought the indoctrination theory was awesome.  Now I'm full of doubt again.

Not happy.  :pinched:


Maybe I missed that line, but I simply can't see any evidence "Shepard's indoctrination" is no longer in the game. They just used a watered down variant. Also there's no line telling "this is no dream".

Guess my understanding of the English language fails  ...

#13667
FrostByte-GER

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FrostByte-GER wrote...

Q: What did you think of the ending? Is this addressed in the story?

A: I've seen the uproar
online about the ending and understand the fan perspective. Personally I
respect the creative choices the team made and had no problems with how
the story ended -- it made you feel something, even if that feeling was
uncomfortable.

The Final Hours addresses the challenges BioWare faces
in writing a story with defined parameters in a game environment where
players want to feel like they have choice. Ultimately your opinion on
the ending will depend on who you see as the "author" of Mass Effect's
story -- BioWare or the player.

The ending of the game is discussed in the App and
there are some notes from the team about how they were thinking about
the ending. Since this story was completed before the public release of
the game, I do not address the fan petitions or reaction. I hope to
update the story with a new chapter on this down the road.


Dude, theres still hope!



#13668
sargon1986

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IF they pull this off... if they release some kind of expansion with a different ending... I will be Bioware's money slave forever.

#13669
Goddy10

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On Deciding the End of the Game
The illusive man boss fight had been scrapped... but there was still much debate. On night walters scribbled down some thought on various ways the game could end with the line "Lots of speculation for Everyone!" at the bottom of the page.

And even in November the gameplay team was still experimenting with an endgame sequence where players would suddenly lose control of Shepard's movement and fall under full reaper control. (This sequence was dropped because the gaemplay mechanic proved too troublesome to implement alongside dialogue choices).


The nature of this is just too coincidental. "Full Reaper Control"? So they've basically confirmed Indoctrination was on their agenda from the start.

If anything, this should prove as categorical evidence.

#13670
Elenterx

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After lOoking at that link I don't know what to think anymore, starting to think it was just bad writing... ****kkkkkkkkkk

#13671
_Flipp_

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sargon1986 wrote...

IF they pull this off... if they release some kind of expansion with a different ending... I will be Bioware's money slave forever.


Only if its for free...if they really charge like 10 bucks for it I'm gonna be so pissed ( still buy it tho ). But then its the greatest Rip-Off ever...

But giving this "real ending " ( dont want to call it alternative ) for free...would make them to gods!

#13672
Doctoglethorpe

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I honestly wouldn't pay much attention to all the robo-speak going on. Its going to be at least a couple more weeks before they start really discussing the ending, and until they definitively say that's the final complete ending I'm holding to my belief it isn't. It can't be, its just too obviously not. Not unless they actually end Shepard's story at "he failed, he got indoctrinated, ME4 picks up afterwards when Reapers are pretty much ****ing everything cause the Earth invasion was a failure" rout. Which I really doubt.

#13673
Prumand

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The funny thing is that the fans are all getting desperate. We all want our endings, but the game didn't come like that. Are we in our right to want the game to end our way? Yes, we are, but I don't see Bioware coming back and changing it. I mean, what is in it for them? Couple hundred thousand bucks from the DLC and a totally loyal fanbase. I just hope they make the right move and really show us what's going on.

#13674
killershotz

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people also ask how could hackett know shepard was there at the citadel? It's because shepard opened the arms so the crucible could get in. So hackett knew that shepard would lead the attack to the citadel, so that's why when he contacted shepard on the citadel, he knew it was him. I still believe in the indoctrination theory.

#13675
FrostByte-GER

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Gamestar thinks too that BioWare will release a Ending DLC:
(You should read the article only of you can read the german language^^)
http://www.gamestar....51,2565861.html