57139 réponses à ce sujet

[T16skyhopp]

They may have dropped the 'controlled by reaper' segment because of gameplay difficulties, or they just changed the way you interact with it. Re: Bioshock - It's the plot structure that reveals you are being controlled, so the same could be said for the ME3 ending. Just because you, the player, have input into what happens (RED/GREEN/BLUE), doesn't mean your character is not being controlled in the fiction (indoctrination).

[Rifneno]

GoldenSkans9 wrote...

But if for 3 games, the intent was to stop the Reapers, then how does killing one of their thralls = i get my planet back? Shouldn't a Reaper or Harbinger be the Final Boss?

How could Harbinger, in his real form, be the final boss?  He's like 2 miles tall.  Shepard fights on foot with rifles and the like.  How would Shepard fight him?  Open Pandora's Box and grow as big as he is or something?

[_Flipp_]

dfstone wrote...

My question about the indoctrination theory is that the 3 of them on the citadel, Shep, Anderson and TIM, TIM is indoctrinated, Shep they are trying to indoctrinate, does that mean Anderson is indoctrinated too? But if Anderson represents goodness, then who indoctrinated him?

You got it a bit wrong my friend - as far as I understood it all you see after being hit by Harbingers Beam ( when running down that hill ) is some kind of imagination. It kinda represents the inner struggle of Shepard, denying ( or losing himself ) to indoctrination. If he doesnt get indoctrinated ( choses to destroy reapers ) he will wake up again lying in the rubble in london ( that short last "Breath" scene ).
At this point the reapers have not been defeated, nor is he at the citadel. He just avoided being indoctrinated.

Modifié par _Flipp_, 15 mars 2012 - 07:30 .

[Martukis]

All of Earth's leaders were supposed to be taken to a superstructure to "negotiate peace," but I don't think that included Anderson. Anderson did, however, express much desperation and such, which might point toward possible indoctrination. But I would rather believe it is a hallucination.

[Vhalkyrie]

dfstone wrote...

My question about the indoctrination theory is that the 3 of them on the citadel, Shep, Anderson and TIM, TIM is indoctrinated, Shep they are trying to indoctrinate, does that mean Anderson is indoctrinated too? But if Anderson represents goodness, then who indoctrinated him?

If that is the case, then indoctrination is like "Inception" where Shep, Anderson, and TIM are all sharing a dream.

Otherwise, Shep is dreaming that Anderson made it to the beam, too, but he's not really there.  So that wouldn't be indicative of whether Anderson is also indoctrinated.

Modifié par Vhalkyrie, 15 mars 2012 - 07:31 .

[Rebel666]

iwillkillfortali wrote...

xCaptainAmazing wrote...

Rebel666 wrote...

Did anyone else catch the fact that the planet the Normandy lands on looks familiar to Virmire????

It kind of does, but I don't know what you are getting at.

It means that Shepard might be thinking about that nuke that was on virmire.

I knew it had to be in the posts somewhere back there, trying to catch up... which this thread has bursted with pages since my last visit. I figured this would be in connection to what Legion mentioned, making things familiar to how Shepard sees it. Like Quarians with their masks on, since Shepard never saw one without.

[jamiekas]

Maybe someone else said this. Maybe I am speaking the obvious. Maybe I'm just being really stupid. But, is the Catalyst actually a reaper? Because when he explains everything to Shepard, the boy says "I know you've thought about destroying us." Shepard was trying to destroy the reapers. So when he says Destroying US, is he saying that he is a reaper?
Am I missing something because I thought the Catalyst was some kind of representative of whatever organics created the reapers in the first place?

[dfstone]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

dfstone wrote...

My question about the indoctrination theory is that the 3 of them on the citadel, Shep, Anderson and TIM, TIM is indoctrinated, Shep they are trying to indoctrinate, does that mean Anderson is indoctrinated too? But if Anderson represents goodness, then who indoctrinated him?

If that is the case, then indoctrination is like "Inception" where Shep, Anderson, and TIM are all sharing a dream.

Otherwise, Shep is dreaming that Anderson made it to the beam, too, but he's not really there.  So that wouldn't be indicative of whether Anderson is also indoctrinated.

Well Shepherd and TIM both have implants.  And in the last Cerberus mission with Miranda you learn that Cereberus unlocked the secrete to how reapers communicate with each other and their husks.  So its possible Shep and The Illusive Man were sharing the same vision but that doesn't explain how Anderson got there.

[Rifneno]

That dialogue I've heard people talk about where Shepard beats TIM at logic and TIM just breaks down and says, "I... I need you to believe!" pretty much confirms (IMO) that the only one really there is Shepard.

[CptData]

byne wrote...

dfstone wrote...

My question about the indoctrination theory is that the 3 of them on the citadel, Shep, Anderson and TIM, TIM is indoctrinated, Shep they are trying to indoctrinate, does that mean Anderson is indoctrinated too? But if Anderson represents goodness, then who indoctrinated him?

I believe the generally accepted theory is that Shep never actually made it on the Citadel, and is hallucinating while lying on the ground in front of the conduit

Exactly.

Shepard got almost hit by that blast and is knocked out. Shellshock anyone?
Everything else is an hallucination or dream, if you like.
Only VERY few things are seeping in from the real world, like the radio chatter at the beginning. That's the point where Shepard is at the brink between awake and asleep, so to speak.
If your EMS is low, you'll also see your squadmates dead - never saw that happen since my EMS is almost hitting 6k - but that's already an illusion I guess. Same for Shepard going into the beam, the stuff that's happening on the Citadel and Crucible - everything. It simply doesn't happen, only in Shepard's mind, and it's symbolizing the fight between the free will (Anderson) and indoctrination (TIM) of Shepard.
The final decision is to allow indoctrination happen (Merge & Control) or to break free (Destruction).

And only in that last ending, Shepard is alive - if EMS was high enough. In all other endings, he died - at least as intact character Shepard.

[dfstone]

jamiekas wrote...

Maybe someone else said this. Maybe I am speaking the obvious. Maybe I'm just being really stupid. But, is the Catalyst actually a reaper? Because when he explains everything to Shepard, the boy says "I know you've thought about destroying us." Shepard was trying to destroy the reapers. So when he says Destroying US, is he saying that he is a reaper?
Am I missing something because I thought the Catalyst was some kind of representative of whatever organics created the reapers in the first place?

In ME1 soverign states that no one created the reapers.  That they "have always been here".

[mutermath]

_Flipp_ wrote...


You got it a bit wrong my friend - as far as I understood it all you see after being hit by Harbingers Beam ( when running down that hill ) is some kind of imagination. It kinda represents the inner struggle of Shepard, denying ( or losing himself ) to indoctrination. If he doesnt get indoctrinated ( choses to destroy reapers ) he will wake up again lying in the rubble in london ( that short last "Breath" scene ).
At this point the reapers have not been defeated, nor is he at the citadel. He just avoided being indoctrinated.

so that means the citadel is still closed right?

[noobcannon]

dfstone wrote...

GoldenSkans9 wrote...

The thing that makes no sense to me, is why the Final Boss was ever even planned to be TIM. How does killing TIM "Take Earth Back"?

If your rep is high enough, TIM kills himself.

i had full paragon and i couldn't kill him. does it need to be a ng+?

[_Flipp_]

mutermath wrote...

_Flipp_ wrote...


You got it a bit wrong my friend - as far as I understood it all you see after being hit by Harbingers Beam ( when running down that hill ) is some kind of imagination. It kinda represents the inner struggle of Shepard, denying ( or losing himself ) to indoctrination. If he doesnt get indoctrinated ( choses to destroy reapers ) he will wake up again lying in the rubble in london ( that short last "Breath" scene ).
At this point the reapers have not been defeated, nor is he at the citadel. He just avoided being indoctrinated.

so that means the citadel is still closed right?

According to the most common indoctrination theory - yeah!

[Nazoa]

jamiekas wrote...

Maybe someone else said this. Maybe I am speaking the obvious. Maybe I'm just being really stupid. But, is the Catalyst actually a reaper? Because when he explains everything to Shepard, the boy says "I know you've thought about destroying us." Shepard was trying to destroy the reapers. So when he says Destroying US, is he saying that he is a reaper?
Am I missing something because I thought the Catalyst was some kind of representative of whatever organics created the reapers in the first place?

Well, he claims that he only controls the reapers. But everything the god-child says is another issue entirely.

[CptData]

mutermath wrote...

_Flipp_ wrote...


You got it a bit wrong my friend - as far as I understood it all you see after being hit by Harbingers Beam ( when running down that hill ) is some kind of imagination. It kinda represents the inner struggle of Shepard, denying ( or losing himself ) to indoctrination. If he doesnt get indoctrinated ( choses to destroy reapers ) he will wake up again lying in the rubble in london ( that short last "Breath" scene ).
At this point the reapers have not been defeated, nor is he at the citadel. He just avoided being indoctrinated.

so that means the citadel is still closed right?

Either that, or it opened on Reapers command for an unknown cause.

I still believe in the theory, someone has to go on board and push a button - and that's it. No decisions. Just a button.

[Vhalkyrie]

jamiekas wrote...

Maybe someone else said this. Maybe I am speaking the obvious. Maybe I'm just being really stupid. But, is the Catalyst actually a reaper? Because when he explains everything to Shepard, the boy says "I know you've thought about destroying us." Shepard was trying to destroy the reapers. So when he says Destroying US, is he saying that he is a reaper?
Am I missing something because I thought the Catalyst was some kind of representative of whatever organics created the reapers in the first place?

I don't think the kid was the Catalyst.  I think it was a manifestation of a Reaper, and everything it said to Shepard was a lie.  The kid is a projection of a Reaper in a non threatening form in an attempt to persuade Shep to join it.

[dfstone]

noobcannon wrote...

dfstone wrote...

GoldenSkans9 wrote...

The thing that makes no sense to me, is why the Final Boss was ever even planned to be TIM. How does killing TIM "Take Earth Back"?

If your rep is high enough, TIM kills himself.

i had full paragon and i couldn't kill him. does it need to be a ng+?

No he killed himself on my first play thru.  Maybe you have to pick the right dialoge choices.  But in my game Shepherd convinced the Illusive Man that he was indoctrinated and then he shot himself in the head.

[Black Master 09]

noobcannon wrote...

dfstone wrote...

GoldenSkans9 wrote...

The thing that makes no sense to me, is why the Final Boss was ever even planned to be TIM. How does killing TIM "Take Earth Back"?

If your rep is high enough, TIM kills himself.

i had full paragon and i couldn't kill him. does it need to be a ng+?

In every conversation you have with TIM (Mars,Thessia and Cronos station), you have to pick the Paragon options (upper left). Only then can you convince TIM to end himself.

[Rifneno]

noobcannon wrote...

dfstone wrote...

GoldenSkans9 wrote...

The thing that makes no sense to me, is why the Final Boss was ever even planned to be TIM. How does killing TIM "Take Earth Back"?

If your rep is high enough, TIM kills himself.

i had full paragon and i couldn't kill him. does it need to be a ng+?

One important factor to it most people don't know is that you must use a blue or red dialogue with him on Mars at the beginning of the game.

[blueboxblues]

Q: What did you think of the ending? Is this addressed in the story?

A: I've seen the uproar online about the ending and understand the fan perspective. Personally I respect the creative choices the team made and had no problems with how the story ended -- it made you feel something, even if that feeling was uncomfortable.

Feeling uncomfortable is having indigestion. Feeling like I got punched in the face after the 200+ hours of gametime I put into the series surpasses "uncomfortable."

[dfstone]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

jamiekas wrote...

Maybe someone else said this. Maybe I am speaking the obvious. Maybe I'm just being really stupid. But, is the Catalyst actually a reaper? Because when he explains everything to Shepard, the boy says "I know you've thought about destroying us." Shepard was trying to destroy the reapers. So when he says Destroying US, is he saying that he is a reaper?
Am I missing something because I thought the Catalyst was some kind of representative of whatever organics created the reapers in the first place?

I don't think the kid was the Catalyst.  I think it was a manifestation of a Reaper, and everything it said to Shepard was a lie.  The kid is a projection of a Reaper in a non threatening form in an attempt to persuade Shep to join it.

I think Shepherd was the Catalyst.  Shepherd already had the beacon's information stored in his head.  That happened in ME1. 

[Irishkev]

What annoys me is that the game resets just before cerbus base. I mean its like the last two missions mean nothing.

Now I don't care about the ending aslong as it makes sense. They could of gave me any ending as long as it made sense in some form. But I can't figure this ending out
1) we get to the citadel (if true) some how Anderson gets up there when everyone died in the push (he was part of it).
2) Where the hell did the reaper go did he decide I hit them once now will leave the beam open.

3) they have no guards in the citadel incase someone makes it(come on even the collector base had husk and that was pass the omega relay in a middle of a singularity no ship ever returned or the citadel had geth/husk. Yet the biggest threat to them is having someone making it to citadel yet no one watches it.

4) Shepard passes out and can't reach console yet the platform rises and he up and walking asking questions.

5). the end cinematic make no sense forget the beams but joker riding into space no reason. Your squad mates appearing in Normandy that were supposed to make the push to the citadel. and they don't care that they stranded on a planet or that joker lost ANOTHER Normandy.

6) I am back on earth waking up? Taking a breath? yet I just blew up on the citadel

If this is the (Real) ending then I need them to explain what they are trying to do/ tell us as right now all I have is a writer on drugs who thought that this ending is SOOOO cool

[Vhalkyrie]

noobcannon wrote...

dfstone wrote...

GoldenSkans9 wrote...

The thing that makes no sense to me, is why the Final Boss was ever even planned to be TIM. How does killing TIM "Take Earth Back"?

If your rep is high enough, TIM kills himself.

i had full paragon and i couldn't kill him. does it need to be a ng+?

I had 90% paragon 10% renegade and I was able to get TIM to kill himself.  I don't really know what choices I made that possible (I chose every paragon choices when dealing with him).  I never got the renegade option to save Anderson, though.

Modifié par Vhalkyrie, 15 mars 2012 - 07:43 .

[Valk72]

Goddy10 wrote...

Has NOBODY taken the time to examine Mac Walters notes?



Look at that last page; "End of first Matrix", with a side note "brave new world", meaning they're trying something new.

"Lots of speculation from everyone", exactly what this thread is all about.

They PLANNED THIS from the start.

I can't believe it... It was not an accident, it was planned all the way!! My god i hate BW! I hope they don't excpect to buy their crappy DLC or another game! ME3 was the last straw  for me!! They can go to hell for all i care, they deserve to rot there!!