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[Neverwinter_Knight77]

I'm thinking that the dream (which includes the "god child", the Citadel part, the Normandy part, and the guy talking to the kid in the future) is caused by Shepard's heightened stress, worry, fear, and mental and physical trauma. You can tell during the entire game of ME3, it's all taking a heavy toll on Shepard.

Modifié par Neverwinter_Knight77, 11 mars 2012 - 07:30 .

[BlackDragonBane]

mahlerbone wrote...

Lord Nikon 001 wrote...

If this is really a dream and Bioware has a card or two still up their sleave regarding the endings, I can't see them waiting too long before the show us what they have planned. Otherwise the frustration anger and negativity will have time to really settle in and any release of a "real" ending could seriously backfire. They'll hafta be very careful of the monster they have created here....

i totally agree. they need to say something soon before people start selling the game back. if we dont hear anything within a week after the euro release i'll totally lose hope...

Bioware has basically turned the community into a Yaag, so they have to handle this carefully, else it'll completely shatter any hopes of selling the ME brand again except to the most die-hard fans who stick with it regardless of what they do.

[Nefelius]

Stupid weird post bug.

Modifié par Nefelius, 11 mars 2012 - 07:32 .

[oh_saki]

lavosslayer wrote...

oh_saki wrote...

krystalevenstar wrote...

Eumerin wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

The device for indoctrination could be the IFF module installed in ME2. And that's why Vega complained by the sound.

Can't be.  The Prothean VI has the ability to detect indoctrination in Organics (it recognizes that Kai Leng is suffering from Indoctrination) and automatically shuts down in their presence as a safety feature.  But it has no issues talking with Shepard.

Ergo, the IFF hasn't Indoctrinated Shepard.

This could be explained away by the fact that Shepard is
A. Technically a reanimated corpse
B. Has enough synthetic parts inside that maybe the VI can't tell she's indoctrinated

But Kai Leng is himself brought back from the brink of death and is part synthetic. If the VI works for an indoctrinated and part synthetic Shep, then it should do the same with Kai Leng. I don't think that Shep was indoctrinated prior to the attempt to retake Earth, it seems like a stretch to me.

I wouldn't say Kai Lang was ever on the brink of death...he had both of his legs crippled by Anderson but it wasn't like he was almost dead...and certainly not comparable to Shepard...

also Shepard began the Indoctrination Process in the Arrival DLC due to exposure to Object Rho...(we really need to get this stuff stickied in one central place cause its getting kinda frustrating having to repost this every 5 or so pages...however I am glad there are new faces showing up embracing the whole idea!

True, I exaggerated there. Still, the wiki says that Leng has numerous cybernetic implants. Probably not as much as Shep, but I still think that theory is a stretch. Right now the most logical one I can think of is Shep goes comatose after getting hit with the beam, everything after being transported to the Citadel is a dream while being indoc'd, including his crew crash landing (and all surviving) on a lush and idyllic unknown planet.

Modifié par oh_saki, 11 mars 2012 - 07:31 .

[krystalevenstar]

lookingglassmind wrote...

Imagine the awesome if it actually were true...!

If you choose Control or (potentially) Synthesis, then you yourself have fallen prey to indoctrination. How powerful is that? How real is that? I can't think of a better way to hand ME's celebrated and proverbial 'player choice' directly to the player. Truly making Shepard a creation of the player.

I don't know. It sounds insane, but beautiful.

Quoted for truth. What a way to end their magnum opus. I'll be devastated now if this isn't what they're planning, but it seems much more like Bioware's style than what we currently have.

[Nefelius]

REfute it... point by point. Please. We welcome the discussion.

I just did.

Modifié par Nefelius, 11 mars 2012 - 07:32 .

[lookingglassmind]

Nefelius wrote...

 Totally ridiculous. I don't think it really needs an explanation why.
But still first off do you really think that this would be a proper ending for the most anticipated game for the last few years?.

Yeeup, I do.

[cannedcream]

lookingglassmind wrote...

ceruleancrescent wrote...

lookingglassmind wrote...

comrade gando wrote...

lookingglassmind wrote...

If you notice while walking up the ramp to get to the control panel on the left side it says 1M1..on the right it says 1M1 but its backwards- the 1's are completely mirrored and backwards. Logic: in this dream: whats RIGHT is skewed, its wrong, its not REAL. I.e. The right thing in your mind to do is represented as "WRONG" in this ending (dream) --- You get a renegade option (RED) to shoot TIM to save anderson?? really? im sorry thats paragon.. but see.. its indoctrination-- its making you think its WRONG to shoot TIM to save anderson.

You just literally made my spine crawl with awesome. I got goosebumps.

This is a PERFECT example of BioWare trying to engage in metagaming -- making the experience real. Trying to indoctrinate the player.

there you go lookingglass, this seems exactly what bioware is intending to do. giving us a false ending to give the impression that the reapers are indoctrinating the player. VERY effective on bioware's part if this is true.

It's the most badass direction that could exist. If BioWare seriously did that sh*t, they can have all of my money. All of it. It's so hardcore. To sacrifice all to allow the player to 'experience' indoctrination? Blows my mind apart.

All of this. If this is real, it's the most epic thing ever.

It's probably not real.

But it goddamned might be. Could be.

I really wanna go look for myself, now. That's intersting.

[Tamcia]

I'm going into how the whole god child options are simply illogical.

How did all the squadmates get onto Normandy? Why did everyone run after Hammer was destroyed? Why did hammer include only humans? Where the hell are the armies I gathered!?

Did all races get stuck on earth? Did Mass relay explosion destroy all life?

Synthesis? lol what!? How does anything change when you become part synthetic? You think they will not create machines to help out and somehow everyone will become good/logical/moral and the now machine vs synth/organic will not go to war? If all organic went part synth, did all synth go organic? Define synthetic - will a non functional mech become half organic? Tons of more questions that don't many ANY sense.

If God child is worried about life, he just destroys life to preserve it, therefore like EDI before gaining a bit more humanity it is worried ONLY about preservation, thus is an inferior AI/VI or whatever with redundant logical system. Who created god child? If he controls the rEApers, why the hell can't Shep just destroy mainframe and shutdown rEApers - send a command, since Reapers communicating over huge distances without any problem.

Loopholes on every corner and just terribad ending. Choices?

God child counts ships - ok you can have option 1.
God child counts the good things you've done - ok you get option 2 as well.
God Child counts ground troops - yes, you've earned option 3.


Shep goes like - ah fine, came so close, but I'll take what you give me and play along with the reaper controller, cause I'm soooooo tired, lets just end this how Reapers want....

Pick your favorite color, cause reapers win anyway - galaxy is ****ed/is mostly dead, Shep dies, Normandy somewhere, for some reason....

It's feels so good, that all your decisions mean absolutely nothing in the end, the outcome is the same.

[Ellestor]

Eumerin wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

The device for indoctrination could be the IFF module installed in ME2. And that's why Vega complained by the sound.

Can't be.  The Prothean VI has the ability to detect indoctrination in Organics (it recognizes that Kai Leng is suffering from Indoctrination) and automatically shuts down in their presence as a safety feature.  But it has no issues talking with Shepard.

Ergo, the IFF hasn't Indoctrinated Shepard.

Great point, if it were the IFF... but the thing is, we've seen that indoctrination can happen at various rates. It's not always as long and arduous a process as some cases suggested. Liara even insists that the krogan keep their distance from a disabled Reaper, not even allowing them to investigate it, in order to keep them from indoctrination.

Sovereign could indoctrinate in a matter of days, and here Shepard is laying unconscious at the feet of Harbinger, who it is suggested to be the oldest and largest of the Reapers and has a huge goddamn obsessive vendetta against Shepard. I'd certainly be willing to swallow that this badass, so heavily foreshadowed by ME2 and only briefly seen here, can indoctrinate whoever the hell he wants in a heartbeat if he really wants to. And boy, would he really want to.

Modifié par Ellestor, 11 mars 2012 - 07:40 .

[MissMaster_2]

HOLY CRAP! This thread is the best!

[BS Veyron]

mahlerbone wrote...

Lord Nikon 001 wrote...

If this is really a dream and Bioware has a card or two still up their sleave regarding the endings, I can't see them waiting too long before the show us what they have planned. Otherwise the frustration anger and negativity will have time to really settle in and any release of a "real" ending could seriously backfire. They'll hafta be very careful of the monster they have created here....

i totally agree. they need to say something soon before people start selling the game back. if we dont hear anything within a week after the euro release i'll totally lose hope...

it has been mentioned to hold onto your disc because of some major stuff that is planned

[Kabraxal]

[quote]Nefelius wrote...

quote]



REfute it... point by point. Please. We welcome the discussion.

[/quote]

I just did.[/quote]

Where?  I didn't see you take the whole listing with all the possible clues and slowly show why each is wrong.  You just simply made a general statement from what I saw.

[Khar-Goth]

Eumerin wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

The device for indoctrination could be the IFF module installed in ME2. And that's why Vega complained by the sound.

Can't be.  The Prothean VI has the ability to detect indoctrination in Organics (it recognizes that Kai Leng is suffering from Indoctrination) and automatically shuts down in their presence as a safety feature.  But it has no issues talking with Shepard.

Ergo, the IFF hasn't Indoctrinated Shepard.

That was one of the things that bugged me in the game even at that point...

When Ravik talks in some of the bits on the Normandy about how the Reapers indoctrinated people again and again to betray their resistance from within, where was this technology that suddenly shows up in the Thessia beacon to detect indoctrination then?

Given that what Ravik has said, they abandoned the outposts by the younger races (like the Asari) to prevent the Reapers from noticing them, I have to doubt that the Thessia beacon was something they invented late in the war.

For that matter, do we know if it even was picking up on Kai Leng or could it have been the Cerberus soldiers piloting Leng's gunship lurking just out of sight that it was picking up on? From what we saw in a much earlier cutscene in-game Cerberus troops look to be in a very heavily indoctrinated/semi-Husk-state which Leng doesn't appear to be.

My guess would be that the Beacon / Prothean VI can detect indoctrination, but only heavily indoctrinated people who are physically showing signs of being Reaper'ified which would mean that Shepard (and Leng) could be suffering from Reaper mental influences but only as sleeper agents (like the ones that brought down the Protheans from within).

Modifié par Khar-Goth, 11 mars 2012 - 07:37 .

[omgBAMF]

I just had another thought about the idyllic planet the crew lands on...

Wasn't most of the so-called "garden" planets (those that are in the habitable zone of a star) in the Milky Way already populated? There isn't any way to tell if the planet they land on has civilization, but it looks rather overgrown and lush not to have been colonized at some point.

My point: the planet is a figment of Shep's imagination.

Modifié par omgBAMF, 11 mars 2012 - 07:37 .

[MissMaster_2]

Wait hold on! I have been watching this thread since yesterday but I could not post until now. Having to wait 24 hours before posting blah blah blah. So this might have been said but what do you think happens after Shepard wakes up for the hallucination?

[mahlerbone]

omgBAMF wrote...

mahlerbone wrote...

Lord Nikon 001 wrote...

If this is really a dream and Bioware has a card or two still up their sleave regarding the endings, I can't see them waiting too long before the show us what they have planned. Otherwise the frustration anger and negativity will have time to really settle in and any release of a "real" ending could seriously backfire. They'll hafta be very careful of the monster they have created here....

i totally agree. they need to say something soon before people start selling the game back. if we dont hear anything within a week after the euro release i'll totally lose hope...

i think the Japanese version of ME3 isn't released until 3/15/2012

then maybe april fools day?...or maybe we just need to accept that the ending we have is all we're going to get. i just dont want to believe that yet.

[lookingglassmind]

@MissMaster_2: Now that is an avenue we haven't really touched on. I'm inclined to trust BioWare with this: Shepard's story is over. So, while s/he might live, we won't really explore her/his story except through legend and story telling.

[oh_saki]

So HERE'S a thought I just had. Maybe there is no post ending DLC. Maybe the writers of ME meant for us to figure out that Shep was dreaming, and the 'best ending' (Shep choosing destruction and then waking up in the rubble) is the 'canon' ending and truly the ending of Mass Effect. Maybe they wanted us to see that Shep wakes up and it was all just a dream, and then we can truly make our own 'choice' as to what happens to Shep next with our own wild imagination...

[littleork]

MissMaster_2 wrote...

Wait hold on! I have been watching this thread since yesterday but I could not post until now. Having to wait 24 hours before posting blah blah blah. So this might have been said but what do you think happens after Shepard wakes up for the hallucination?

I think shep will go around fighting again, with even more will to finish this, the decision you take in the hallucination could be one of those decisions that matter as well, who knows.Shep's resolve will be far greater since she resisted all attempts to make her fail, boss fights happen blah blah, endings happen depending of earlier choices and possibly hallucinations choice etc etc.

[ApplesauceBandit]

I wish it was all part of the drunken adventure i had in Purgatory. Aria...please wake me up.

[comrade gando]

it took me about 8 blue moons to understand it, but guys bioware is doing this on purpose, to simulate reaper indoctrination to the player spread the word!! or I could just be drunk by now and jumping to conclusions, worse case scenario ya know?

[omgBAMF]

BringBackNihlus wrote...

It's nice to see everyone come up with these ingenious ideas for the ending, but it doesn't excuse the fact that it was sabotaged to sell DLC, if true. That's bull****.

it doesn't necessarily have to be "sold".  it could be released as free-DLC through ANN. (though the thought of them selling wouldn't be far-fetched either)

[Eumerin]

Niemack Saarinen wrote...
I.e. The right thing in your mind to do is represented as "WRONG" in this ending (dream) --- You get a renegade option (RED) to shoot TIM to save anderson?? really? im sorry thats paragon.. but see.. its indoctrination-- its making you think its WRONG to shoot TIM to save anderson.
 

Er...

Apparently that really is Bioware's feeling on the matter.

You get a Renegade interrupt to shoot Udina when he tries to shoot the Asari Councilor.
You get a Renegade interrupt when Kai Leng attempts to stab you in the back in the Cerberus Base.
You get a Renegade interrupt to shoot TIM.


For Bioware, apparently any interrupt that involves attacking someone - regardless of the reason why - is a Regenade interrupt.