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[lookingglassmind]

krystalevenstar wrote...

lookingglassmind wrote...

Imagine the awesome if it actually were true...!

If you choose Control or (potentially) Synthesis, then you yourself have fallen prey to indoctrination. How powerful is that? How real is that? I can't think of a better way to hand ME's celebrated and proverbial 'player choice' directly to the player. Truly making Shepard a creation of the player.

I don't know. It sounds insane, but beautiful.

Quoted for truth. What a way to end their magnum opus. I'll be devastated now if this isn't what they're planning, but it seems much more like Bioware's style than what we currently have.

Agreed. But I am also afraid that the theory doesn't align with BioWare/EA's need for profit. Somehow, this seems way too fan-focused instead of profit focused. The risk for loss of the paying fanbase is too large, I fear.

But, I'm headcanoning it this way, forever.

[crimsontotem]

Remember what TIM said? Cerberus is an idea, idea never dies... Throughout the game, we can see Shepard has became no just a BAMF, but a concept, an idea that represents the resistance, determination, passion and will to live. (Wrex clearly imply my statement when he said to every Krogan, the word Shepard will mean a 'hero') Even Shepard dies, the idea of unification against the great unknown will not disappear, unless you break and bend that idea itself...

two of the three ending does not represent Shepard... this clearly violate his determination to destroy reapers by either becoming one with synthetic, a final stage of evolution (Saren mentioned this as well when he was indoctrinated) or trying to control them... which you are never able to. However, by sticking to his determination... Shepard is finally able to break Harbinger's attempt to indoctrinate him and wakes up after getting knocked out by the beam. That is the only way why Harbinger himself came down to London and Shepard waking up under "mortars", "concretes" and "rebars".

[rogueagent6]

DifferentD17 wrote...

rogueagent6 wrote...

legislacerator wrote...

There's one thing here I haven't seen mentioned, and maybe I'm just reading too much into things, but think about the definition of the word "crucible." Other than something to melt metal in, a crucible is also a test or trial that is usually incredibly difficult.

Does anyone see where I'm going with this?

Excellent point.

In fact, the Marine Corps added a portion to their boot camp named the Crucible after I graduated in 1995.


I know it's kinda off topic, but here's the wiki link if anyone's interested

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Marine_Corps_Recruit_Training#The_Crucible

The final push is called "the reaper" WTF!!?

Yes, if you go to boot camp in San Diego. The Crucible happens at Camp Pendelton, and the final hill you have to conquer at the end of your forced march is indeed called "The Reaper". Imagine being more exhausted than you ever have been. Carying a 70+ pound pack, a rifle, helmet, flack jacket, and two canteens, then having  to climb the longest hill you've ever seen.

Here's a video if you're interested.

www.youtube.com/watch

[Mtich]

Does anyone remeber the delay ending that came out of no where about 2 weeks ago on the site? One day it was a rumor and a fully fleshed out ending the next. Or how about the fish ending? This reminds me of those quite a bit. I think the ending was just bad writing. But I will admit i wish it was true.

[JayneD]

Just thinking about it, is it weird the God child tells Shepard to "wake up"?

Dunno, I haven't slept yet (it's 7:39AM) but I often find I have dreams where something from the real world morphs into my dreams, perhaps a similar experience for Shepard?

[littleork]

lookingglassmind wrote...

@MissMaster_2: Now that is an avenue we haven't really touched on. I'm inclined to trust BioWare with this: Shepard's story is over. So, while s/he might live, we won't really explore her/his story except through legend and story telling.

Shepard herself says that she is done fighting  after the reaper deal somewhere on Earth(to garrus maybe?), so i think a long ending will happens, and then she will retired or die depending of our decisions.

[lookingglassmind]

crimsontotem wrote...


Remember what TIM said? Cerberus is an idea, idea never dies... Throughout the game, we can see Shepard has became no just a BAMF, but a concept, an idea that represents the resistance, determination, passion and will to live. (Wrex clearly imply my statement when he said to every Krogan, the word Shepard will mean a 'hero') Even Shepard dies, the idea of unification against the great unknown will not disappear, unless you break and bend that idea itself...

two of the three ending does not represent Shepard... this clearly violate his determination to destroy reapers by either becoming one with synthetic, a final stage of evolution (Saren mentioned this as well when he was indoctrinated) or trying to control them... which you are never able to. However, by sticking to his determination... Shepard is finally able to break Harbinger's attempt to indoctrinate him and wakes up after getting knocked out by the beam. That is the only way why Harbinger himself came down to London and Shepard waking up under "mortars", "concretes" and "rebars".

*slow applause*

Beautifully articulated.

[lavosslayer]

Eumerin wrote...

Niemack Saarinen wrote...
I.e. The right thing in your mind to do is represented as "WRONG" in this ending (dream) --- You get a renegade option (RED) to shoot TIM to save anderson?? really? im sorry thats paragon.. but see.. its indoctrination-- its making you think its WRONG to shoot TIM to save anderson.
 

Er...

Apparently that really is Bioware's feeling on the matter.

You get a Renegade interrupt to shoot Udina when he tries to shoot the Asari Councilor.
You get a Renegade interrupt when Kai Leng attempts to stab you in the back in the Cerberus Base.
You get a Renegade interrupt to shoot TIM.


For Bioware, apparently any interrupt that involves attacking someone - regardless of the reason why - is a Regenade interrupt.

Whats funny is I've never gotten a Renegade Inturrupt to shoot TIM...I did for the other two but never TIM...odd...unless of course you have to choose several Renegade dialogue options which would explain it totally since I chose Paragon choices...

[Lugaidster]

lavosslayer wrote...

also Shepard began the Indoctrination Process in the Arrival DLC due to exposure to Object Rho...(we really need to get this stuff stickied in one central place cause its getting kinda frustrating having to repost this every 5 or so pages...however I am glad there are new faces showing up embracing the whole idea!)

That's the one argument I don't buy. I didn't play the arrival DLC and the way it was introduced in my story was that some other marines did it. So not everyone would go through with arrival.

BTW, the IFF reaper module could be the thing trying to indoctrinate me, but I'm not yet indoctrinated. Only after the hallucination would I be actually indoctrinated.

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

Like I said... Everything that happened after Shepard got knocked out by that Reaper laser was a dream.

[Niemack Saarinen]

Eumerin wrote...

Niemack Saarinen wrote...
I.e. The right thing in your mind to do is represented as "WRONG" in this ending (dream) --- You get a renegade option (RED) to shoot TIM to save anderson?? really? im sorry thats paragon.. but see.. its indoctrination-- its making you think its WRONG to shoot TIM to save anderson.
 

Er...

Apparently that really is Bioware's feeling on the matter.

You get a Renegade interrupt to shoot Udina when he tries to shoot the Asari Councilor.
You get a Renegade interrupt when Kai Leng attempts to stab you in the back in the Cerberus Base.
You get a Renegade interrupt to shoot TIM.


For Bioware, apparently any interrupt that involves attacking someone - regardless of the reason why - is a Regenade interrupt.

or since TIM was indoctrinated himself- and since you dream of the god-child, your already slightly indoctrinated.  the will trying to subvert you to allow TIM (Udina/ kai leng -  cerberus indoctrinated slaves ) to proceed and win.


"he could't have controlled us.. we already controlled him" 

Modifié par Niemack Saarinen, 11 mars 2012 - 07:45 .

[krystalevenstar]

littleork wrote...

lookingglassmind wrote...

@MissMaster_2: Now that is an avenue we haven't really touched on. I'm inclined to trust BioWare with this: Shepard's story is over. So, while s/he might live, we won't really explore her/his story except through legend and story telling.

Shepard herself says that she is done fighting  after the reaper deal somewhere on Earth(to garrus maybe?), so i think a long ending will happens, and then she will retired or die depending of our decisions.

"I think I'm done saving the galaxy after this" is the line I believe. Who can blame Shep? He/She is 32 now and was 29 when this whole thing started.

[oh_saki]

lavosslayer wrote...

Eumerin wrote...

Niemack Saarinen wrote...
I.e. The right thing in your mind to do is represented as "WRONG" in this ending (dream) --- You get a renegade option (RED) to shoot TIM to save anderson?? really? im sorry thats paragon.. but see.. its indoctrination-- its making you think its WRONG to shoot TIM to save anderson.
 

Er...

Apparently that really is Bioware's feeling on the matter.

You get a Renegade interrupt to shoot Udina when he tries to shoot the Asari Councilor.
You get a Renegade interrupt when Kai Leng attempts to stab you in the back in the Cerberus Base.
You get a Renegade interrupt to shoot TIM.


For Bioware, apparently any interrupt that involves attacking someone - regardless of the reason why - is a Regenade interrupt.

Whats funny is I've never gotten a Renegade Inturrupt to shoot TIM...I did for the other two but never TIM...odd...unless of course you have to choose several Renegade dialogue options which would explain it totally since I chose Paragon choices...

Nope. I replayed the ending 3 times, twice choosing Synthesis and once choosing Destruction. First time I chose a combo of paragon and renegade choices, second time I chose all paragon, final time I chose all renegade, each time I shot TIM.

[krystalevenstar]

oh_saki wrote...

lavosslayer wrote...

Eumerin wrote...

Niemack Saarinen wrote...
I.e. The right thing in your mind to do is represented as "WRONG" in this ending (dream) --- You get a renegade option (RED) to shoot TIM to save anderson?? really? im sorry thats paragon.. but see.. its indoctrination-- its making you think its WRONG to shoot TIM to save anderson.
 

Er...

Apparently that really is Bioware's feeling on the matter.

You get a Renegade interrupt to shoot Udina when he tries to shoot the Asari Councilor.
You get a Renegade interrupt when Kai Leng attempts to stab you in the back in the Cerberus Base.
You get a Renegade interrupt to shoot TIM.


For Bioware, apparently any interrupt that involves attacking someone - regardless of the reason why - is a Regenade interrupt.

Whats funny is I've never gotten a Renegade Inturrupt to shoot TIM...I did for the other two but never TIM...odd...unless of course you have to choose several Renegade dialogue options which would explain it totally since I chose Paragon choices...

Nope. I replayed the ending 3 times, twice choosing Synthesis and once choosing Destruction. First time I chose a combo of paragon and renegade choices, second time I chose all paragon, final time I chose all renegade, each time I shot TIM.

You can convince TIM to commit suicide. I forget the specific choices I made, but it happened in my first ending.

[omgBAMF]

oh_saki wrote...

Nope. I replayed the ending 3 times, twice choosing Synthesis and once choosing Destruction. First time I chose a combo of paragon and renegade choices, second time I chose all paragon, final time I chose all renegade, each time I shot TIM.

REALLY? 3 paragons and you still shoot TIM?

I did 3 straight paragon lines (about 80/20 in para/rene score) and ended up talking TIM to shoot himself in the head ala Saren in ME1.  

[Miss Vader]

krystalevenstar wrote...

oh_saki wrote...

lavosslayer wrote...

Eumerin wrote...

Niemack Saarinen wrote...
I.e. The right thing in your mind to do is represented as "WRONG" in this ending (dream) --- You get a renegade option (RED) to shoot TIM to save anderson?? really? im sorry thats paragon.. but see.. its indoctrination-- its making you think its WRONG to shoot TIM to save anderson.
 

Er...

Apparently that really is Bioware's feeling on the matter.

You get a Renegade interrupt to shoot Udina when he tries to shoot the Asari Councilor.
You get a Renegade interrupt when Kai Leng attempts to stab you in the back in the Cerberus Base.
You get a Renegade interrupt to shoot TIM.


For Bioware, apparently any interrupt that involves attacking someone - regardless of the reason why - is a Regenade interrupt.

Whats funny is I've never gotten a Renegade Inturrupt to shoot TIM...I did for the other two but never TIM...odd...unless of course you have to choose several Renegade dialogue options which would explain it totally since I chose Paragon choices...

Nope. I replayed the ending 3 times, twice choosing Synthesis and once choosing Destruction. First time I chose a combo of paragon and renegade choices, second time I chose all paragon, final time I chose all renegade, each time I shot TIM.

You can convince TIM to commit suicide. I forget the specific choices I made, but it happened in my first ending.

You have to use all paragon choices to get him to kill himself

[Lugaidster]

oh_saki wrote...

lavosslayer wrote...

Eumerin wrote...

Niemack Saarinen wrote...
I.e. The right thing in your mind to do is represented as "WRONG" in this ending (dream) --- You get a renegade option (RED) to shoot TIM to save anderson?? really? im sorry thats paragon.. but see.. its indoctrination-- its making you think its WRONG to shoot TIM to save anderson.
 

Er...

Apparently that really is Bioware's feeling on the matter.

You get a Renegade interrupt to shoot Udina when he tries to shoot the Asari Councilor.
You get a Renegade interrupt when Kai Leng attempts to stab you in the back in the Cerberus Base.
You get a Renegade interrupt to shoot TIM.


For Bioware, apparently any interrupt that involves attacking someone - regardless of the reason why - is a Regenade interrupt.

Whats funny is I've never gotten a Renegade Inturrupt to shoot TIM...I did for the other two but never TIM...odd...unless of course you have to choose several Renegade dialogue options which would explain it totally since I chose Paragon choices...

Nope. I replayed the ending 3 times, twice choosing Synthesis and once choosing Destruction. First time I chose a combo of paragon and renegade choices, second time I chose all paragon, final time I chose all renegade, each time I shot TIM.

If you only choose paragon, TIM shoots himself. That's how it went in my story at least.

[Ainyan42]

Eumerin wrote...

Niemack Saarinen wrote...
I.e. The right thing in your mind to do is represented as "WRONG" in this ending (dream) --- You get a renegade option (RED) to shoot TIM to save anderson?? really? im sorry thats paragon.. but see.. its indoctrination-- its making you think its WRONG to shoot TIM to save anderson.
 

Er...

Apparently that really is Bioware's feeling on the matter.

You get a Renegade interrupt to shoot Udina when he tries to shoot the Asari Councilor.
You get a Renegade interrupt when Kai Leng attempts to stab you in the back in the Cerberus Base.
You get a Renegade interrupt to shoot TIM.


For Bioware, apparently any interrupt that involves attacking someone - regardless of the reason why - is a Regenade interrupt.

The difference in these three is that if you don't interrupt Udina, VS kills him instead. If you don't interrupt Kai Leng, you still catch him before he kills you and kill him, you just don't break his sword. If you don't interrupt TIM, Anderson dies. The first two, you interrupt someone else from taking the same action. In the third, you interrupt an action taken by the antagonist.

[rogueagent6]

I just did a quick replay up until the point you get to TIM. One thing I noticed is that while you were nearly obliterated, Anderson took no noticeable damage

[MissMaster_2]

For some reason I don't think Shep will be able to fight after being hit by a Reaper laser and having a vivid LSD hallucination. I'm going to say that someone else made it to the Citadel and hit the kill switch on the Reapers...maybe Anderson...

That's just my headcanon working.

[lookingglassmind]

rogueagent6 wrote...

I just did a quick replay up until the point you get to TIM. One thing I noticed is that while you were nearly obliterated, Anderson took no noticeable damage

Like bullets from a gun, rougeagent6!

Keep 'em comin.

[oh_saki]

omgBAMF wrote...

oh_saki wrote...

Nope. I replayed the ending 3 times, twice choosing Synthesis and once choosing Destruction. First time I chose a combo of paragon and renegade choices, second time I chose all paragon, final time I chose all renegade, each time I shot TIM.

REALLY? 3 paragons and you still shoot TIM?

I did 3 straight paragon lines (about 80/20 in para/rene score) and ended up talking TIM to shoot himself in the head ala Saren in ME1.  

Yup, the whole point I wanted to replay it that many times was because I specifically tried to get TIM to shoot himself or some other outcome. 

And I actually lied, I didn't shoot him all three times, the time I did all paragon choices, I didn't pull the trigger to shoot TIM and he actually ended up shooting and killing me as a result. 

[wetnasty]

Perhaps. Or maybe Shepard was a dream. Like in FFX.

Anyways, I'm ready to see Kaidan in booty shorts ala Yuna for Mass Effect 3-2

[Ellestor]

Eumerin wrote...

Er...

Apparently that really is Bioware's feeling on the matter.

You get a Renegade interrupt to shoot Udina when he tries to shoot the Asari Councilor.
You get a Renegade interrupt when Kai Leng attempts to stab you in the back in the Cerberus Base.
You get a Renegade interrupt to shoot TIM.


For Bioware, apparently any interrupt that involves attacking someone - regardless of the reason why - is a Regenade interrupt.

You have to remember that 'renegade' is not 'evil' to make sense of this. It's about being impulsive, shooting first and asking questions later.

For instance, shooting Udina is a renegade action because you don't know he's going to shoot Tevos, but you take the shot because you're not willing to take that chance.

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

Maybe Bioware's intention was to get us all talking and speculating about the ending. I hope not, because then they'd call this a success.