57139 réponses à ce sujet

[blueboxblues]

Miss Vader wrote...

Here watch this:

... think we need a laugh

bahahaha

[ninjaNumber1]

Doctor Moustache wrote...

Why do people not actually examine the damn ending and look for the clues presented before telling everyone its a stupid idea?

This isn't just "omg i don't wanna believe it, i wont!" this theory is based on actual evidence within the game that's hidden right under your damn nose. People in this thread simply took the time to examine it rather then take everything at face value.

Come on, either the theory is true or all the ending's confusing little **** ups all align completely on accident to form a very coherent picture. Whats REALLY less likely?

Its because the only thing you are presenting as evidence are things that don't add up. Then you are using that to imply that its indoctrination. You are bypassing the simplest implication of things 'not adding up' = Bioware just epic failed on their ending.

Instead you guys come up with indoctrination ideas which can be said to correct any plot mistake in ANY GAME. The reason why writers avoid such 'cheap' plot devices is because it leads to bad narratives. It makes people doubt everything.

Just think about the following for a moment

Hypothetically assume Bioware gives you a DLC ending that says Shephard was indoctrinated. You wake up from it and end up destroying the reapers for 'real'.....

BUT was THAT real? Or do you just accept it because now it fits with what you thought seems like the ending? Maybe you were indoctrinated to believe that you snapped out of indoctrination? 

So what you people have to realize is that IF Bioware indeed meant the ending as an indoctrination, no future DLC ending is going to help resolve the ending. Why? Because for all you know, that DLC too is an indoctrinated hallucination which made you believe you woke up from the indoctrination.

In short, the indoctrination theory can't do anything to redeem what happened in the ending.

Now I am not trolling, I am just suggesting people realize what they are actually thinking as a ''great'' idea here.

What you should be asking for is a FIXED ending. Not DLC that follows an indoctrination theory because that **** gets you nowhere. Every piece of DLC ending you get could just be indoctrination...

Modifié par ninjaNumber1, 15 mars 2012 - 11:51 .

[snackynak]

ageofadrian wrote...

Im sorry, but the fact that every body in the citadel as you walk towards the final TIM anderson confrontation is the body of Ashley and Kaiden with their armors on. That cant possibly be 'lazy' texturing because they would have to go out of their way to make that!

The scene isn't real and that is definitive proof for me!

No it's not kaiden or ashley's bodies. They're just generic corpses, probably even resued corpse models and textures from the pile of bodies in ME2 collector base. Just like the "shack" models in the benning mission are the same as the ones from the horizon mission in ME2, and the microscopes, and a lot of other misc things that have been carried over between games.

[Tygur]

CptData wrote...

Tygur wrote...

CptData wrote...


I wonder who's picking up whom.
Is this (male) Shepard's naked arm?

To me it always looked like Shep's bare arm and Ashley's original armor. Either way I think the pic is irrelevant and just there to stir excitement.

Ashley has no red armor.

I like the "Shepard pulls Shepard out of the mess" theory. It highly supports the dream part.

Looks pink to me...

But yeah most likely symbolic of Sheap trying to help earth if anything.

Modifié par Tygur, 15 mars 2012 - 11:52 .

[El-Kelebrin]

Dap Brannigan wrote...

El-Kelebrin wrote...

Check this out:
http://social.biowar...1863/1#10022656

Put down the bong, bro.

Why would I? It makes me happy about the ending

Modifié par El-Kelebrin, 15 mars 2012 - 11:53 .

[Dap Brannigan]

jules_vern18 wrote...
 I hope you join me.

I would, but you're so goddamn smug and insufferable.

[Valk72]

jules_vern18 wrote...
Nice try, but if the lead writer's notes about the ending not including ANYTHING in support of  your theory can't convince you, me wasting hours of my time sure as hell isn't going to.

As I said earlier, there was nothing wrong with your theory before this information came out.  I read the OP, felt that it was a possible (but implausible from a business standpoint) interpretation of the ending, and didn't post any opposition to it whatsoever.  Now that you have the dev team's pre-release notes and still won't believe it, there's nothing that *I* can do for you.

Now, let's pay really close attention here, because I can already anticipate the "see, he won't write a dissertation on this topic!  he's just a blind troll!" posts. I never offered to deconstruct your theory point by point and will say *again* that I did not see anything wrong with your theory until this information came out blatantly destroying it.  I used the deconstruction of your entire theory point-by-point as a hypothetical scenario in an attempt to illustrate that nothing I could do would convince you, not as a claim that I saw any reason in doing so.  Here's why:

The only, I repeat ONLY ammunition that I have (or need) refuting your theory is the "Final Hours" documentary showing the developer's notes on the ending.  Addressing the points of your theory is irrelevant, as the entire theory being part of Biowar's behind-the-scenes plans has been refuted by the release of Bioware's actual behind-the-scenes plans. 

But I'm sure it'll be easier for you to just use the fact that I see no need to write a wall of text deconstructing an argument that has already been proven false as proof that I'm just blindly attacking you.  Please do.

Meanwhile, I'll be spreading the word about the charity, posting on mass effect's various twitter feeds, and playing my part in vocal opposition to this game's 3 (yes, only 3) horrible endings.  I hope you join me.

One question: and the shepard breathing scene how do you explain that?

[lex0r11]

jules_vern18 wrote...


Nice try, but if the lead writer's notes about the ending not including ANYTHING in support of  your theory can't convince you, me wasting hours of my time sure as hell isn't going to.

As I said earlier, there was nothing wrong with your theory before this information came out.  I read the OP, felt that it was a possible (but implausible from a business standpoint) interpretation of the ending, and didn't post any opposition to it whatsoever.  Now that you have the dev team's pre-release notes and still won't believe it, there's nothing that *I* can do for you.

Now, let's pay really close attention here, because I can already anticipate the "see, he won't write a dissertation on this topic!  he's just a blind troll!" posts. I never offered to deconstruct your theory point by point and will say *again* that I did not see anything wrong with your theory until this information came out blatantly destroying it.  I used the deconstruction of your entire theory point-by-point as a hypothetical scenario in an attempt to illustrate that nothing I could do would convince you, not as a claim that I saw any reason in doing so.  Here's why:

The only, I repeat ONLY ammunition that I have (or need) refuting your theory is the "Final Hours" documentary showing the developer's notes on the ending.  Addressing the points of your theory is irrelevant, as the entire theory being part of Biowar's behind-the-scenes plans has been refuted by the release of Bioware's actual behind-the-scenes plans. 

But I'm sure it'll be easier for you to just use the fact that I see no need to write a wall of text deconstructing an argument that has already been proven false as proof that I'm just blindly attacking you.  Please do.

Meanwhile, I'll be spreading the word about the charity, posting on mass effect's various twitter feeds, and playing my part in vocal opposition to this game's 3 (yes, only 3) horrible endings.  I hope you join me.

yes, please hold the line.

[lex0r11]

Dap Brannigan wrote...

jules_vern18 wrote...
 I hope you join me.

I would, but you're so goddamn smug and insufferable.

guys, don't do that.
we're on the same side.

[Vhalkyrie]

Chyliss wrote...

The only problem I see with this thread is people calling it a "theory". Shepard fighting off Indoctrination in the end-game is not a theory, it's a fact. Anyone who doesn't get that wasn't paying attention to any of the multitude of clues present from the VERY BEGINNING of the game starting with that kid.

There were a number of conversations throughout the game that discussed indoctrination.  Liara and Shepard talking about Benezia seemed to me a foreshadowing.  How Benezia was indoctrinated, but how strong she was to be able to break free of control at the last minute.  I suspected indoctrination might be a central theme.

The codex about Indoctrination and Mass Effect Relays are pretty important, too.  The indoctrination codex makes it plausible.  The Mass Effect Relay entry says that destroyed relays DESTROYS the star system.  Thus the ending where Shepard takes a breath under rubble means it's not possible that the relays were destroyed.  The Sol Relay would have wiped out Earth, and there would be no alive Shepard under any scenario.

[byne]

I saw you replied, and was expecting to read a well-written rebuttlal of my theory.

jules_vern18 wrote...

 I never offered to deconstruct your theory point by point

You implied that you could though.

jules_vern18 wrote...

The only, I repeat ONLY ammunition that I have (or need) refuting your theory is the "Final Hours" documentary showing the developer's notes on the ending.  Addressing the points of your theory is irrelevant, as the entire theory being part of Biowar's behind-the-scenes plans has been refuted by the release of Bioware's actual behind-the-scenes plans. 

The behind the scenes plans dont have anything concretely saying it isnt an indoctrination. They even specifically mention the matrix, which had an ending a lot like the one we're implying will happen.

[Descedent]

T_l_M_B_0 wrote...

Ok I've been following this theory since it was only at like page 10. I was keeping quiet here, but I was spreading the word to other sites that I frequent, and I guess its time to finally throw my hat in the ring.

I support this theory 100% and no amount of people telling me to "face reality" will change that. You are not from Bioware. You do not know what they are planning or aren't planning. You assuming that the current "ending" is canon is exactly the same as us assuming that it is not canon.

Until Bioware finally addresses the issue and says "Yes, its indoctrination.", or "No, the current ending stands.", then not a single person in this thread knows what is fact and what is not. And no amount of trolls up in here trying to tell us we're stupid for believing in this theory will change that.

I will say this though, if Bioware ever confirms the current "ending" as canon, then my love for this series will effectively be destroyed. Until then, much like Shepard, I will hold on to my hope. I advise you all to do the same. Hold the line!

HOLD THE LINE!!!!

[Zix13]

Been watching this thread for a while, finally got around to getting the forum to let me post.
Anyways, yes, ending was garbage. Yes, indoctrination theory makes total sense. I haven't seen one compelling argument to the contrary. However, that is provided ea wasn't concerned about money. I don't see any possible reason for bioware/ea to ship an endingless game. Makes no business sense. Though... I also don't see how anyone could decide that ending worked.

[Rifneno]

Books/comics establish that TIM got his eyes from contact with a Reaper artifact that put him in early indoctrination at the same time.

Shepard gets the same eyes as TIM when he picks control of synthesis. Not "they look weird," the same eyes.

It's not ambiguous. This is indoctrination. Deal with it.

[Miekkas]

The only problem I see is that the mission on Thessia heavily insinuates that the Reapers really are only servants to a "greater power", most likely meaning the Catalyst, so if the ending really is indoctrination, then what is the Catalyst really?

I want to believe this theory because the alternative is a the literal interpretation of the ending, which is very poorly executed and written, but there are still some things that the theory does not address like the example I mentioned.

[MissMaster_2]

Sparatus wrote...

Ending probably not a hallucination
Sorry it actually happened
Should probably write fanfiction

You should go read the OP.

[Descedent]

COMRADES WE WILL HOLD THE LINE!

[lex0r11]

Zix13 wrote...

Been watching this thread for a while, finally got around to getting the forum to let me post.
Anyways, yes, ending was garbage. Yes, indoctrination theory makes total sense. I haven't seen one compelling argument to the contrary. However, that is provided ea wasn't concerned about money. I don't see any possible reason for bioware/ea to ship an endingless game. Makes no business sense. Though... I also don't see how anyone could decide that ending worked.

i say it will be their way of being the first guys to slap a leak in the face and go: "look how bold we are with our inovation!"

[crimsontotem]

Miekkas wrote...

The only problem I see is that the mission on Thessia heavily insinuates that the Reapers really are only servants to a "greater power", most likely meaning the Catalyst, so if the ending really is indoctrination, then what is the Catalyst really?

I want to believe this theory because the alternative is a the literal interpretation of the ending, which is very poorly executed and written, but there are still some things that the theory does not address like the example I mentioned.

That would be left to solve for upcoming ME universe games... 

[jules_vern18]

Davies993 wrote...

Davies, entertaining though your indignation is, it was my intention to insult your intelligence.  The lead writer's end-game notes came out and you still can't let go of your disproven theory!

And YES, I compared you to Birthers and Truthers.  Is it an apt comparison in terms of scope or context? No.  In terms of rabid denial of any contradictory evidence, desperate clinging to theories even as they dissolve, and inability to acknowledge any circumstance in which you might be wrong?  YES.  A THOUSAND TIMES YES.

That's actually why I said don't insult it.

Where does it disprove it? Again and again you mindless drones say the same thing but fail EVERY single time to follow it up. Surely it's not that hard to provide it if the evidence is so abundant?

Does it refute it because it says they wanted it open to interpretation?
Who is to say that therefore they are not planning DLC in relation to the ending?

Does it refute it because he said it is LIKELY that there will be no end game DLC?
Indoc theory takes place during + likely does not = definitely.

You are basing your entire argument of incomplete data that was subject to change during production. NOTHING, in those notes that were shown disproves nor proves indoc theory. Back up your claims for crying out loud.
Come on, just one single credible answer.

Again, proving that you cannot provide any evidence. What does it contradict? Where has the OP said that it is the answer and you must believe? It's a theory. By definition it is not fact. I certainly have not asserted this. You are making a massive assumption and taking a gigantic leap of logic. Why don't you get back on your motorcycle of hyperbole, and come back when you are willing to talk rationally.

You actually remind me of a truther, cannot provide evidence for claims and asserts that they are right and we are simply blind.

If Indoctrination was part fo the ending, why was it not mentioned in any of the notes?  The word Indoctrination, I mean? 

Everything else was mentioned, including the current endings listed as A, B, and C.  Even more to the point, creating an indoctrination ending that could only be picked up by attention to the details listed in the OP would have required some planning.  If Bioware had planned this in any way, there would have been some mention of it in the ending notes. 

[MissMaster_2]

snackynak wrote...

ageofadrian wrote...

Im sorry, but the fact that every body in the citadel as you walk towards the final TIM anderson confrontation is the body of Ashley and Kaiden with their armors on. That cant possibly be 'lazy' texturing because they would have to go out of their way to make that!

The scene isn't real and that is definitive proof for me!

No it's not kaiden or ashley's bodies. They're just generic corpses, probably even resued corpse models and textures from the pile of bodies in ME2 collector base. Just like the "shack" models in the benning mission are the same as the ones from the horizon mission in ME2, and the microscopes, and a lot of other misc things that have been carried over between games.

Uh. I never saw Ash's armor in ME2.

[Dap Brannigan]

Rifneno wrote...

Books/comics establish that TIM got his eyes from contact with a Reaper artifact that put him in early indoctrination at the same time.

Shepard gets the same eyes as TIM when he picks control of synthesis. Not "they look weird," the same eyes.

It's not ambiguous. This is indoctrination. Deal with it.

What's funny is that in ME2, being a renegade shows the same pattern in red.  From what is assumed to be your Cerberus implants.

If you're a moderate renegade, you can see the triad of three dots, one on top, two at the bottom.  Once you go hardcore renegade your iris turns red, but I think those three dots stay.

Also it's been pointed out that EDI/Eva Core body also has some same pattern in her eyes.