57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Oddlyotter]

I am now in full support of this theory.

[Ellestor]

Ultra Prism wrote...

I believe it is as you get see the shepard grasping for breath after normandy cutscene in destroy ending...suggesting that he broke free of indoctrination

I actually think that's the successful indoctrination ending, given that in order to reach it you need to buy that the best way to defeat the Reapers is to do what they want: destroy the Crucible, synthetics, and spacefaring civilizations. After all, why would Harbinger kill a successfully indoctrinated Shepard?

Modifié par Ellestor, 11 mars 2012 - 08:13 .

[FLYING GRENADE11]

Lugaidster wrote...

Golferguy758 wrote...

Saying this again to further blow some minds:

If you take too long making your choice the crucible is destroyed and you get a critical mission failure. But if you were on the crucible it would explode around you, but it doesn't. And that's because you are still on earth fighting your indoctrination. The actual crucible is destroyed before it can be activated.

Once again Joker: What the ****! Holy ****!

I'm not getting your point...

When the crucible blows up your not on it, proving you really arent on it.

[wetnasty]

Lugaidster wrote...

wetnasty wrote...

Perhaps. Or maybe Shepard was a dream. Like in FFX.

Anyways, I'm ready to see Kaidan in booty shorts ala Yuna for Mass Effect 3-2

DUUUDE! WAY TO RUIN THE GAME FOR ME!!! at least a spoiler alert! GAWD!

HEY YOU SAW THE SPOILERS SIGN AT THE TOP OF THE THREAD N3WB!!!111!! :innocent:

And at least I didn't tell you about the part where they have to Send Admiral Hackett. I mean seriously. The guy's like 65, leader of N7 and no one's tried to assassinate him yet? I KNOW HE'S NOT ALIVE. SEND HIM KAIDAN.

[oh_saki]

Lugaidster wrote...

Golferguy758 wrote...

Saying this again to further blow some minds:

If you take too long making your choice the crucible is destroyed and you get a critical mission failure. But if you were on the crucible it would explode around you, but it doesn't. And that's because you are still on earth fighting your indoctrination. The actual crucible is destroyed before it can be activated.

Once again Joker: What the ****! Holy ****!

I'm not getting your point...

He means, if you just stand around for too long and don't choose one of the 3 choices at the end (destruction, synthesis, control), you get a critical mission failure that says the Crucible was destroyed. But the Crucible is literally right next to you and obviously doesn't get destroyed. Therefore, it must be Shepard dreaming and if Shepard takes too long in his dream to decide what choice to make, the Crucible in real life gets destroyed.

[gooberfish311]

Lugaidster wrote...

Golferguy758 wrote...

Saying this again to further blow some minds:

If you take too long making your choice the crucible is destroyed and you get a critical mission failure. But if you were on the crucible it would explode around you, but it doesn't. And that's because you are still on earth fighting your indoctrination. The actual crucible is destroyed before it can be activated.

Once again Joker: What the ****! Holy ****!

I'm not getting your point...

The point is that you're supposedly on the Crucible. Now, if you're on the Crucible when it gets destroyed, you would sort of expect it to blow up around you, no? But it doesn't. Because you're only on the Crucible in your head. Because you're still on your ass back on Earth hallucinating or being indoctrinated or whatever.

[wetnasty]

But yeah. Sorry for totally hijacking this thread, but the ending totally pulled a damn FFX. I want mah melodic sequel now.

[Golferguy758]

Lugaidster wrote...

Golferguy758 wrote...

Saying this again to further blow some minds:

If you take too long making your choice the crucible is destroyed and you get a critical mission failure. But if you were on the crucible it would explode around you, but it doesn't. And that's because you are still on earth fighting your indoctrination. The actual crucible is destroyed before it can be activated.

Once again Joker: What the ****! Holy ****!

I'm not getting your point...

The crucible is still in system when harbinger flies down. When Harbinger hits you with the laser you are knocked for a loop, but time is still going by. The Crucible is waiting for the Citadel arms to open. The fleets can't delay the reapers from attacking the crucible indefinitely. If you take too long to accept indoctrination, or fight it off  (The three choices)  the reapers will have destroyed the actual crucible before it could dock and be activated.
If you were actually on the crucible and it gets detroyed why doesn't it explode around you. It doesn't because you aren't actually there.

[BlackDragonBane]

oh_saki wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

Golferguy758 wrote...

Saying this again to further blow some minds:

If you take too long making your choice the crucible is destroyed and you get a critical mission failure. But if you were on the crucible it would explode around you, but it doesn't. And that's because you are still on earth fighting your indoctrination. The actual crucible is destroyed before it can be activated.

Once again Joker: What the ****! Holy ****!

I'm not getting your point...

He means, if you just stand around for too long and don't choose one of the 3 choices at the end (destruction, synthesis, control), you get a critical mission failure that says the Crucible was destroyed. But the Crucible is literally right next to you and obviously doesn't get destroyed. Therefore, it must be Shepard dreaming and if Shepard takes too long in his dream to decide what choice to make, the Crucible in real life gets destroyed.

Or it could also mean that Shepard has taken too long waking up and bled to death.

[Bigdoser]

Golferguy758 wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

Golferguy758 wrote...

Saying this again to further blow some minds:

If you take too long making your choice the crucible is destroyed and you get a critical mission failure. But if you were on the crucible it would explode around you, but it doesn't. And that's because you are still on earth fighting your indoctrination. The actual crucible is destroyed before it can be activated.

Once again Joker: What the ****! Holy ****!

I'm not getting your point...

The crucible is still in system when harbinger flies down. When Harbinger hits you with the laser you are knocked for a loop, but time is still going by. The Crucible is waiting for the Citadel arms to open. The fleets can't delay the reapers from attacking the crucible indefinitely. If you take too long to accept indoctrination, or fight it off  (The three choices)  the reapers will have destroyed the actual crucible before it could dock and be activated.
If you were actually on the crucible and it gets detroyed why doesn't it explode around you. It doesn't because you aren't actually there.

Wow consider my mind blown if this is all true I have to bow to the bioware writers and  take back everything I said before. 

[Ainyan42]

I'm going through the citadel scene again, and a few things I noticed:

* None of the bodies have hair. Male, female, it doesn't matter. They're all bald and pale, like mannequins.
* When you approach the end of the hallway, the light shifts from red to grey and when the door opens and you see the light, everything actually gets darker.
* When TIM comes up behind you, the screen skews.
* Anderson takes a lot of the lines that Shepard normally would - the only time she speaks is when you get a dialogue wheel or when she's asking a question.
* When Shepard gets up to the top with the little boy, all of the blood that literally coated her arms is miraculously gone.
* Outside the Citadel, with the Crucible, you see Earth above you, implying that you are hanging upside down over Earth. So why are the Reapers right-side-up - especially since the Alliance ships you see appear to be upside down?


And I still want to know how TIM controlled Anderson when, up until this point, the ONLY people he's been able to control have been those who were indoctrinated by Cerberus through their experiments. Anderson was never indoctrinated.

Modifié par Ainyan42, 11 mars 2012 - 08:29 .

[Lugaidster]

wetnasty wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

wetnasty wrote...

Perhaps. Or maybe Shepard was a dream. Like in FFX.

Anyways, I'm ready to see Kaidan in booty shorts ala Yuna for Mass Effect 3-2

DUUUDE! WAY TO RUIN THE GAME FOR ME!!! at least a spoiler alert! GAWD!

HEY YOU SAW THE SPOILERS SIGN AT THE TOP OF THE THREAD N3WB!!!111!! :innocent:

And at least I didn't tell you about the part where they have to Send Admiral Hackett. I mean seriously. The guy's like 65, leader of N7 and no one's tried to assassinate him yet? I KNOW HE'S NOT ALIVE. SEND HIM KAIDAN.

I meant about FFX a-hole! This is ME3 spoilers allowed, not everygame spoilers allowed!

[Golferguy758]

 To best sum up how my head feels after this thread and further thinking about the ending: 

Modifié par Golferguy758, 11 mars 2012 - 08:26 .

[wetnasty]

Lugaidster wrote...

wetnasty wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

wetnasty wrote...

Perhaps. Or maybe Shepard was a dream. Like in FFX.

Anyways, I'm ready to see Kaidan in booty shorts ala Yuna for Mass Effect 3-2

DUUUDE! WAY TO RUIN THE GAME FOR ME!!! at least a spoiler alert! GAWD!

HEY YOU SAW THE SPOILERS SIGN AT THE TOP OF THE THREAD N3WB!!!111!! :innocent:

And at least I didn't tell you about the part where they have to Send Admiral Hackett. I mean seriously. The guy's like 65, leader of N7 and no one's tried to assassinate him yet? I KNOW HE'S NOT ALIVE. SEND HIM KAIDAN.

I meant about FFX a-hole! This is ME3 spoilers allowed, not everygame spoilers allowed!

ewpz sry. Then I also probably shouldn't tell you that Snape kills Dumbledore huh?

[dporowski]

Something bugs me from a metagame point of view. EMS = awesomeosity, and the higher it is the better we do. It's counterintuitive that options unlocked at a low EMS are "best", or that an option only available by uniting the galaxy and scoring all the EMS ever is "bad".

Okay, so, implication: Red = good.

Now, we need 4k w/ saving Anderson or 5k w/o saving Anderson to live. Why? Why is it harder to survive if someone else dies? This isn't one of those "they can't save your butt" or somesuch things we've seen elsewhere, more "heartfelt deathbed conversation with mentor".

Someone posited about $many pages ago that Anderson/TIM represent paragon/renegade respectively. Okay, speculation, but it's not out there/far-fetched really. Anderson takes red, TIM takes blue, ooh, weird reversal of the expected color scheme...

So, spitballing here in the best traditions of an intermediate literary criticism class:

If this is all a dream, and Anderson represents paragon options/etc, and the in-dream death of Anderson at the hands of the embodiment of renegade isn't prevented, it's harder for you to "wake up" after walking the red path. If you SAVE the in-dream avatar of paragon, he talks with you, heart to heart, etc, and you suddenly need 1k less EMS to not die if you take the red pill.

It's internally consistent. Logical. Fits with the EMS/ending quality mechanic. Fits the dream/indoctrination/resisting/trying not to die early narrative.

Further, again on a metagame level, this allows use of blue/green as alternate outcomes for Shepard. Blue could be seen as "welp, indoctrination time!", and green as... Um... Yeah I still don't understand that one. Space magic? Just dying? My money would be on "death", as it's the one with NO downside to speak of on a superficial level. And a no-downside ending is inappropriate for the genre. BAD things happen.

Either that, or they skipped the continuity checks for the entire endgame and/or didn't bother modelling your Shepard's outfit/modelling a dirty Anderson outfit and so on, and decided after 3 games worth of SERIOUSLY intricate storytelling and such to go "yep, traffic lights!"

Also yeah, seriously, creepy ghost boy has never been seen by anyone else, and I mean nobody else even saw the original KID, therefore it's either being beamed into Shepard's head, or is taken FROM his head and used as a projection by the thing running the Reapers, a species that likes to take over people's brains. So totally trustworthy, of course.

Like I said, either they got sloppy RIGHT at the end, or something's going down. Could go either way, but there's a REALLY weirdly good case for the latter, and I mean come on, gamer conspiracy theories are LEGEND.

[oh_saki]

Ellestor wrote...

Ultra Prism wrote...

I believe it is as you get see the shepard grasping for breath after normandy cutscene in destroy ending...suggesting that he broke free of indoctrination

I actually think that's the successful indoctrination ending, given that in order to reach it you need to buy that the only way to defeat the Reapers is to do what they want: destroy the Crucible, synthetics, and spacefaring civilizations. After all, why would Harbinger kill a successfully indoctrinated Shepard?

I disagree. I think that Shep is knocked out after the blast while running towards the beam on Earth, and is fighting indoctrination in his dream. Synthesis and Control would be the two choices Harbinger would prefer because in both cases the Reapers are still alive. If Shep is in control of the Reapers, but Harbinger indocs Shep, then nothing is really changed. I believe the space boy was lying when he says that destruction will destroy all synthetics only because he didn't want Shep to choose that and actually break Harbinger's indoc.

And if you listen to all his choices, Spacekid says that control will lead to Shepards death, and strongly implies synthesis will lead to Shepards death, but he never says anything about you dying if you choose destruction. For the most part, we were all pretty noble Shepards, whether Renegade or Paragon. We all knew that there was at least a possibility we might have to sacrifice ourselves for the good of the galaxy, which is why the synthesis and control options seem like right choices (at least, synthesis did).

[mentosman8]

Seriously, since i thought of this then found the thread, all these points and everything just really CAN'T be on accident. Like, I know it's far fetched, but not only would this be an epic way to fully connect us with our Shepard, but there are so many signs(and the fact that you need a PERFECT ending to get the easter-egg-like scene that is really the springboard for all of this) that it just can't be on accident. If BW comes out and says that the endings presented were the real endings and this is all wrong, I literally won't be able to accept it XD

Also I mentioned it a ways back but it didn't see much discussion: Shepard can barely walk from the time he stands up from the blast, yet if you choose synthesis, he literally all-out SPRINTS down the path and leaps into the light like there's nothing wrong with him. If it's not a dream, how can he suddenly not be bogged down by his injuries at that point?

@above: He says it will destroy all synthetics, and points out that you are a large portion synthetic, which implies that it would destroy a huge part of Shep, which would for all intents and purposes put him back to crashed-on-planet state of dead.

Modifié par mentosman8, 11 mars 2012 - 08:20 .

[AlexMBrennan]

Yes, there is some inconsistency there but picking Red in a dream ("fighting off indoctrination") would not have resulted in the destruction of the Reapers as supported by evidentiary proof (the video). The correct conclusion, therefore, is that the writers screwed up (or decided to save CGI money on a scene no one's going to see anyway) and not that the ending is a hallucination.

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 11 mars 2012 - 08:20 .

[comrade gando]

AMAZING how bioware just implemented reaper indoctrination to the player in such a subtle way.

[CreepingGeth]

Forgive me if this has already been discussed - how did Anderson even get onto the platform for the scene with Shepard and Illusive Man? I know he says something about seeing a way to possibly cross over, but if you look around there's no way for him to have gotten there, unless I missed something.

Modifié par CreepingGeth, 11 mars 2012 - 08:24 .

[dporowski]

Ellestor wrote...

Ultra Prism wrote...

I believe it is as you get see the shepard grasping for breath after normandy cutscene in destroy ending...suggesting that he broke free of indoctrination

I actually think that's the successful indoctrination ending, given that in order to reach it you need to buy that the best way to defeat the Reapers is to do what they want: destroy the Crucible, synthetics, and spacefaring civilizations. After all, why would Harbinger kill a successfully indoctrinated Shepard?

Aaaaaactually, it's very plausible that "what they want" is not "blow us up", and is instead "yes.  become one with us.  you can TOTALLY control us!" or "uh...  sure.  yep.  synthetics and humans, all will be as one!"

Also, as the gasping is the "hardest" (via EMS) ending to achieve, it's also logically the "best" one, unless they're breaking with some serious gaming rule conventions.

[TheRealQueen]

If this ends up being the case, that all of the stuff after getting blasted by Harbinger is a hallucination, or if the creepy kid is in fact you being indoctrinated, and the plan was to all along release a dlc with the real endings (FOR FREE), my faith in Bioware will be completely renewed and I will take back anything negative I said, but only then. Otherwise, it's way too vague to be permissible as a real ending, for me at least. But reading this thread has made me feel better, and I will be looking for some DLC SOON, darnit.

[mentosman8]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Yes, there is some inconsistency there but picking Red in a dream ("fighting off indoctrination") would not have resulted in the destruction of the Reapers as supported by evidentiary proof (the video). The correct conclusion, therefore, is that the writers screwed up (or decided to save CGI money on a scene no one's going to see anyway) and not that the ending is a hallucination.

The idea here is that the results are part of the hallucination/whatever as well. That explains the Normandy having randomly flown away for no reason and squaddies somehow being aboard it again as Shep wishing for them to be safe as well. Everything that happens post Harbinger-blasted is hallucination, until Shep's breath in the perfect ending. 

[dporowski]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Yes, there is some inconsistency there but picking Red in a dream ("fighting off indoctrination") would not have resulted in the destruction of the Reapers as supported by evidentiary proof (the video). The correct conclusion, therefore, is that the writers screwed up (or decided to save CGI money on a scene no one's going to see anyway) and not that the ending is a hallucination.

Heheheh.  Oh yes.  Please add "saved cash on the CGI budget" to the list along with "ball dropping" or "bed...  fouling" as possible explanations for what BioWare's done here.  That'd be weird though.  I think.

[oh_saki]

CreepingGeth wrote...

Forgive me if this has already been discussed - how did Anderson even get onto the platform for the scene with Shepard and Illusive Man? I know he says something about seeing a way to possibly crossover, but if you look around there's no way for him to have gotten there, unless I missed something.

We really don't know, that was one of the points brought up in defense of the theory that this is all a dream. It's been further discussed in this Youtube video: