57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Rifneno]

In fairness, the Normandy's drive core is ridiculously huge for the size of the ship. It'd be like having an F-16's engine in your car.

[Debi-Tage]

Ona Demonie wrote...

Vhalkyrie wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Vhalkyrie wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Hmmm. Doing the mission at that fuel station. Vega says early on, "I feel like we're being watched."

There are Reaperized organics in the place, but that's awful convenient wording. AFAIK we didn't even have "feels like they're being watched" as a known symptom of indoctrination before they gave us this oddly detailed codex, did we?

I think James is one of the biggest clues about indoctrination.  He makes comments several times about a strange 'hum'.  The indoctrination codex clearly states:

Organics undergoing indoctrination may complain of headaches and buzzing
or ringing in their ears. As time passes, they have feelings of "being
watched" and hallucinations of "ghostly" presences. Ultimately, the
Reaper gains the ability to use the victim's body to amplify its
signals, manifesting as "alien" voices in the mind.

In ME1, Kaidain makes a comment about a 'hum' that makes his teeth tingle if you look at the mass effect relay on the Citadel.  This is very early in the game, before the Citadel's origin is revealed.

Wait.  That doesn't make any sense though.  The mass relay in the Citadel is the Conduit.  It's Prothean.  A prototype of an attempt to recreate a mass relay actually made by the Reapers.  It shouldn't have any indoctrination.

Up until ME3, we thought the Protheans built the Citadel.  In ME3, the Prothean VI revealed the Citadel is Reaper.

I thought prior to ME3, we already knew the Citadel was a trap and was used to gather mass amounts of advanced species to harvest them. 

Casey hinted in an interview about continuing the ME universe that he especially liked the idea of the Citadel and how all the species come together there...GAWD I hope he was not hinting at some kind of MMO!!!

[Vhalkyrie]

kyg_20X6 wrote...

Er, if the Citadel is a Reaper (or a Starchild who uses the Reapers) couldn't it just indoctrinate everyone aboard slowly, over time. It could gain total control over the Council, all major species' ambassadors. Hell, it could have just told the Council to open the relay (from ME1) and let the Reaper fleets in.

So I don't think it's a Reaper and I don't think it's something that controls the Reapers. I mean, why would Starchild have Sovereign come open the relay? That'd be like me building a robot to open the door for me.

So if it's not a Reaper and not Starchild then that could point to it all being a hallucination.

In ME1 it was revealed to be a death trap made by the Reapers.  And yes, it could slowly indoctrinate everyone over time.  Where did Udina get indoctrinated?

[Rifneno]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

kyg_20X6 wrote...

Er, if the Citadel is a Reaper (or a Starchild who uses the Reapers) couldn't it just indoctrinate everyone aboard slowly, over time. It could gain total control over the Council, all major species' ambassadors. Hell, it could have just told the Council to open the relay (from ME1) and let the Reaper fleets in.

So I don't think it's a Reaper and I don't think it's something that controls the Reapers. I mean, why would Starchild have Sovereign come open the relay? That'd be like me building a robot to open the door for me.

So if it's not a Reaper and not Starchild then that could point to it all being a hallucination.

In ME1 it was revealed to be a death trap made by the Reapers.  And yes, it could slowly indoctrinate everyone over time.  Where did Udina get indoctrinated?

Who says he was indoctrinated?  Maybe he's just a dick.

[xeternalxredx]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

kyg_20X6 wrote...

Er, if the Citadel is a Reaper (or a Starchild who uses the Reapers) couldn't it just indoctrinate everyone aboard slowly, over time. It could gain total control over the Council, all major species' ambassadors. Hell, it could have just told the Council to open the relay (from ME1) and let the Reaper fleets in.

So I don't think it's a Reaper and I don't think it's something that controls the Reapers. I mean, why would Starchild have Sovereign come open the relay? That'd be like me building a robot to open the door for me.

So if it's not a Reaper and not Starchild then that could point to it all being a hallucination.

In ME1 it was revealed to be a death trap made by the Reapers.  And yes, it could slowly indoctrinate everyone over time.  Where did Udina get indoctrinated?

I don't think Udina was truly indoctrinated. He wanted whatwas best for humanity and talked to the one person who was almost always humanity above all.

[HairyMadDog1010]

I could tell from me 1 that he was for human domination.

[Vhalkyrie]

Rifneno wrote...

In fairness, the Normandy's drive core is ridiculously huge for the size of the ship. It'd be like having an F-16's engine in your car.

Not at all.  In ME1, when Tali joins the Normandy, she remarks that she can't sleep because the Normandy's engines are too quiet.  On the Flotilla, the engines are very noisy.  She uses this to explain that Normandy's engineering is exceptional.  Cerberus did even better (according to Daniels, Donnelly, and Adams)

[dragonage200200]

Rifneno wrote...

Vhalkyrie wrote...

kyg_20X6 wrote...

Er, if the Citadel is a Reaper (or a Starchild who uses the Reapers) couldn't it just indoctrinate everyone aboard slowly, over time. It could gain total control over the Council, all major species' ambassadors. Hell, it could have just told the Council to open the relay (from ME1) and let the Reaper fleets in.

So I don't think it's a Reaper and I don't think it's something that controls the Reapers. I mean, why would Starchild have Sovereign come open the relay? That'd be like me building a robot to open the door for me.

So if it's not a Reaper and not Starchild then that could point to it all being a hallucination.

In ME1 it was revealed to be a death trap made by the Reapers.  And yes, it could slowly indoctrinate everyone over time.  Where did Udina get indoctrinated?

Who says he was indoctrinated?  Maybe he's just a dick.

While your later point is true, he proably was indoctrinated.

[Rifneno]

xeternalxredx wrote...

I don't think Udina was truly indoctrinated. He wanted whatwas best for humanity and talked to the one person who was almost always humanity above all.

<Sten>  No.  </Sten>

[dragonage200200]

Debi-Tage wrote...

Ona Demonie wrote...

Vhalkyrie wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Vhalkyrie wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Hmmm. Doing the mission at that fuel station. Vega says early on, "I feel like we're being watched."

There are Reaperized organics in the place, but that's awful convenient wording. AFAIK we didn't even have "feels like they're being watched" as a known symptom of indoctrination before they gave us this oddly detailed codex, did we?

I think James is one of the biggest clues about indoctrination.  He makes comments several times about a strange 'hum'.  The indoctrination codex clearly states:

Organics undergoing indoctrination may complain of headaches and buzzing
or ringing in their ears. As time passes, they have feelings of "being
watched" and hallucinations of "ghostly" presences. Ultimately, the
Reaper gains the ability to use the victim's body to amplify its
signals, manifesting as "alien" voices in the mind.

In ME1, Kaidain makes a comment about a 'hum' that makes his teeth tingle if you look at the mass effect relay on the Citadel.  This is very early in the game, before the Citadel's origin is revealed.

Wait.  That doesn't make any sense though.  The mass relay in the Citadel is the Conduit.  It's Prothean.  A prototype of an attempt to recreate a mass relay actually made by the Reapers.  It shouldn't have any indoctrination.

Up until ME3, we thought the Protheans built the Citadel.  In ME3, the Prothean VI revealed the Citadel is Reaper.

I thought prior to ME3, we already knew the Citadel was a trap and was used to gather mass amounts of advanced species to harvest them. 

Casey hinted in an interview about continuing the ME universe that he especially liked the idea of the Citadel and how all the species come together there...GAWD I hope he was not hinting at some kind of MMO!!!

Oh, and he proably was hinting at a form of one. He stated in a interview with GI that a MMO could be a possibility in the future.

On Topic: Could the Citadel have helped indoctrinate Shepard when he was away from th IFF? I mean he visits it all the time.

[Vhalkyrie]

xeternalxredx wrote...

I don't think Udina was truly indoctrinated. He wanted whatwas best for humanity and talked to the one person who was almost always humanity above all.

Then why did Anderson say that while he never liked Udina, he couldn't imagine he would be capable of a plot to kill the counsel?  No one liked Udina, but Anderson was generally a very good judge of character.  If he suspected Udina (like he did Saren), he would have been all over it.

Modifié par Vhalkyrie, 16 mars 2012 - 05:08 .

[xeternalxredx]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

xeternalxredx wrote...

I don't think Udina was truly indoctrinated. He wanted whatwas best for humanity and talked to the one person who was almost always humanity above all.

Then why did Anderson say that while he never liked Udina, he couldn't imagine he would be capable of a plot to kill the counsel?

The Illusive Man was able to control, while very limited, Shepard at the end, what's to say he didn't control Udina as well.

[Debi-Tage]

dragonage200200 wrote...

Oh, and he proably was hinting at a form of one. He stated in a interview with GI that a MMO could be a possibility in the future.

On Topic: Could the Citadel have helped indoctrinate Shepard when he was away from th IFF? I mean he visits it all the time.

Yeah, maybe Avina has something to do with it - she always creeped me a little!

Modifié par Debi-Tage, 16 mars 2012 - 05:19 .

[KujaTheDarkOne2]

Spyre2001 wrote...

KujaTheDarkOne2 wrote...

I dunno, though. I mean, what
would ME4 even be about? Just killing the Reapers? 'Cause we already
resolved the Genophage, the Quarian/Geth war, pretty much all the
character's personal issues... We even destoyed Cerberus. So besides
offing the Reapers, what is there? And considering how close we get,
with the Crucible and a big battle on Earth and the Citadel being
captured... it seems like we're pretty close to either beating them or
losing to them. Enough story left for DLC? Sure. But for a whole game?
Seems like a stretch.

Well I think ME4 is going to take place centuries later. That's what the old man is indicating when he says the things in his story happen a "Long Time Ago" and some of the details might be off. It's kinda like how Knights of the Old Republic takes place in the SW universe but so far removed from what we saw in the movies as to have no connection to them at all.

As for threats the galaxy was mostly unexplored. The Mass Relays offered an easy form of travel to get around quick but they also kep exploration down to only those areas near them. It's the same way how portals/teleports or any fast travel end up working in MMOs where those points become very crowded and lots of other remote areas that are not within easy reach or abandon for those locations that are quick to reach.

Taken from Wiki site "The Milky Way is a barred spiral galaxy 100,000–120,000 light-years in diameter containing 200–400 billion stars." Now think about how few of those would of been explored. Heck part of the thing that got humanity in trouble was them colonizing in unexplored areas then when asking for help they were told it's your own fault for going into such dangerous areas.

The whole First Contact war was because humanity was trying to activate a relay to a new region of space when though the council outlawed such practices. They had a very cautious attitude to exploration.

I mean, I could feasibly see an ME4 being like that. And not involving Shepard at all. But then that moves far away from the point of this thread. An ME4 like that would not do anything to change or salvage the current terrible (if taken literally) ending of ME3.

Some people have been referring to an ME4 that continues SHEPARD'S story. I don't see how that would work.

[Vhalkyrie]

xeternalxredx wrote...

Vhalkyrie wrote...

xeternalxredx wrote...

I don't think Udina was truly indoctrinated. He wanted whatwas best for humanity and talked to the one person who was almost always humanity above all.

Then why did Anderson say that while he never liked Udina, he couldn't imagine he would be capable of a plot to kill the counsel?

The Illusive Man was able to control, while very limited, Shepard at the end, what's to say he didn't control Udina as well.

He wasn't within range, and it was still in development by Miranda's father at the time of Udina's betrayal.

[kyg_20X6]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

kyg_20X6 wrote...

Er, if the Citadel is a Reaper (or a Starchild who uses the Reapers) couldn't it just indoctrinate everyone aboard slowly, over time. It could gain total control over the Council, all major species' ambassadors. Hell, it could have just told the Council to open the relay (from ME1) and let the Reaper fleets in.

So I don't think it's a Reaper and I don't think it's something that controls the Reapers. I mean, why would Starchild have Sovereign come open the relay? That'd be like me building a robot to open the door for me.

So if it's not a Reaper and not Starchild then that could point to it all being a hallucination.

In ME1 it was revealed to be a death trap made by the Reapers.  And yes, it could slowly indoctrinate everyone over time.  Where did Udina get indoctrinated?

They hinted he wasn't indoctrinated. Just desperate and perhaps could have been swayed back. I can't remember who says that but I know someone does. It really doesn't seem like he's indoctrinated.

In ME1 the Citadel was supposed to be a relay that linked to dark space. Sovereign was supposed to activate to start the invasion. If the Citadel = Starchild, Sovereign is redundant. If Starchild can create/control the Reapers it can open it's own bloody relay!

And if Starchild has been around for 100,000s of years it's had plenty of time to contemplate whether it's wrong. There is no logic in it suddenly giving Shepard the chance to ruin it's work.

So I don't think the Starchild is the Reaper creator. It's a lie (or bad writing).

Hallucination theory still best bet.

[xeternalxredx]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

xeternalxredx wrote...

Vhalkyrie wrote...

xeternalxredx wrote...

I don't think Udina was truly indoctrinated. He wanted whatwas best for humanity and talked to the one person who was almost always humanity above all.

Then why did Anderson say that while he never liked Udina, he couldn't imagine he would be capable of a plot to kill the counsel?

The Illusive Man was able to control, while very limited, Shepard at the end, what's to say he didn't control Udina as well.

He wasn't within range, and it was still in development by Miranda's father at the time of Udina's betrayal.

Then if he was indoctrinated, why did he let Cerberus troopers in, and not just get reapers in?

[Vhalkyrie]

kyg_20X6 wrote...

In ME1 the Citadel was supposed to be a relay that linked to dark space. Sovereign was supposed to activate to start the invasion. If the Citadel = Starchild, Sovereign is redundant. If Starchild can create/control the Reapers it can open it's own bloody relay!

And if Starchild has been around for 100,000s of years it's had plenty of time to contemplate whether it's wrong. There is no logic in it suddenly giving Shepard the chance to ruin it's work.

Starchild is lying for self preservation.  Shepard is a threat, and it tries to persuade Shepard to join it.  It's had numerous cycles to contemplate its superiority.  Don't discount hubris.  It has no reason to believe that Shepard won't fall in line, like all the others.  Why else wouldn't it have security on deck where 'no organic has ever been before'.  It simply didn't think it possible anyone would be able to get that far, and be a threat.

[People4Peace]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

kyg_20X6 wrote...

In ME1 the Citadel was supposed to be a relay that linked to dark space. Sovereign was supposed to activate to start the invasion. If the Citadel = Starchild, Sovereign is redundant. If Starchild can create/control the Reapers it can open it's own bloody relay!

And if Starchild has been around for 100,000s of years it's had plenty of time to contemplate whether it's wrong. There is no logic in it suddenly giving Shepard the chance to ruin it's work.

Starchild is lying for self preservation.  Shepard is a threat, and it tries to persuade Shepard to join it.  It's had numerous cycles to contemplate its superiority.  Don't discount hubris.  It has no reason to believe that Shepard won't fall in line, like all the others.  Why else wouldn't it have security on deck where 'no organic has ever been before'.  It simply didn't think it possible anyone would be able to get that far, and be a threat.

Exactly. Well said!

[Vhalkyrie]

xeternalxredx wrote...

Then if he was indoctrinated, why did he let Cerberus troopers in, and not just get reapers in?

You've read the indoctrination codex, right?  Covert ops don't tend to just open the door and advertise themselves.  TIM says Udina was expendable, and other plans were in motion.

[kyg_20X6]

It could have indoctrinated Baley as well, surely that would have made things easier. Or the Asari and Salarian Councillors.

[kyg_20X6]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

kyg_20X6 wrote...

In ME1 the Citadel was supposed to be a relay that linked to dark space. Sovereign was supposed to activate to start the invasion. If the Citadel = Starchild, Sovereign is redundant. If Starchild can create/control the Reapers it can open it's own bloody relay!

And if Starchild has been around for 100,000s of years it's had plenty of time to contemplate whether it's wrong. There is no logic in it suddenly giving Shepard the chance to ruin it's work.

Starchild is lying for self preservation.  Shepard is a threat, and it tries to persuade Shepard to join it.  It's had numerous cycles to contemplate its superiority.  Don't discount hubris.  It has no reason to believe that Shepard won't fall in line, like all the others.  Why else wouldn't it have security on deck where 'no organic has ever been before'.  It simply didn't think it possible anyone would be able to get that far, and be a threat.

Because it didn't happen? It was a hallucination to give Shepard an easy path ending with tempting alternative options on how to deal with the Reapers?

[Lugaidster]

To be completely fair, the only person that was standing between me and sending my games to hell was Jessica Merizan. However vague her tweets are, she answers as much as she can. She's just a community manager in an unmanageable situation.

[tanuki]

Noob451 wrote...

crimsontotem wrote...

Do they order Normandy to retreat when i start to run to the beam? I don't recall that

no, which is why it doesnt make sense

Yeah, more than that, when the Citadel arms started to open, Hackett ordered for everyone to protect the Crusible at all cost, why would Joker suddenly head to the relay, or just away from the battle:pinched:
Last time I hear from Normandy it was connecting her navigation systems to the rocket cannon to kill that small Reaper in front of the beam.
Last time I hear from my team, they were storming to the beam behind Shepard.
Seriously, seeing the scene with Normandy running away during the end, every time makes me think I just missed few minutes of cutscenes, because of how abrupt and unexplainable it is...

[Rifneno]

Speaking of Starchild's lies, has anyone else ever wondered why his solution will no longer work? "Your being here, the first organic ever, means my solution will no longer work." Paraphrased, I forget the exact wording. I don't see how Shepard's being there means that at all.