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[Vhalkyrie]

ageofadrian wrote...

kyg_20X6 wrote...

Oh, and I thought you opened/closed the Citadel from the Council chambers. Now it's on the roof? And the Conduit (for Reaper processing) takes you to the console for opening the Citadel? Wow, that's one of those crazy coincidences you'd expect from a dream or something!

You know I haven't seen this mentioned in any of the pages i have managed to keep up with here.

Funny how that was overlooked in all the other evidence!  Its a pretty big thing.  Even though I guess it might just be a plot "speedy up thing"

That's one of the things that struck me as odd, and in my mind, validates the 'indoctrination' theory.  Shepard says to Anderson, "This doesn't look like any part of the Citadel I've ever been on".  The walking out of the corridor where Anderson is standing at the console, I thought, "Huh.  Why does this look like TIM's station?"

[kyg_20X6]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

If we're going with the indoctrination theory, Shepard isn't on the Citadel at all.  Whatever choice Shepard makes doesn't end the war.  It decides whether Shepard accepts indoctrination, or rejects it (and s/he wakes on earth).

That was my point. You were the one arguing the Starchild was real and my point was, if that's the case, he revives Shepard instead of letting him die. Why doesn't he let Shepard die there, recall the Reaper ships and destroy the Crucible and organic fleets?

If it's an attempt at indoctrination, it can make sense. Reapers want to change Shepard's POV to there's. They failed with the TIM scene, try again with something more sympathetic.

If it's real, it makes no sense.

[kyban]

Blackmind1 wrote...

It's definitely indoctrination. I'm not budging on this. The evidence is overwhelming.



http://i.imgur.com/irYQD.jpg

My guess is that they can't say anything about their fourth wall breaking social experiment until a week after the world has past their launch dates. There is no way Bioware make 3 amazing games, then throw it all away in a ten minute sequence that is incredibly ambiguous and dream like. It's too much of a u-turn.

i'm with you on this one. I give it another week or so to hear about DLC plans. Or at least a statement from BIoware.

[Vhalkyrie]

kyg_20X6 wrote...

Vhalkyrie wrote...

If we're going with the indoctrination theory, Shepard isn't on the Citadel at all.  Whatever choice Shepard makes doesn't end the war.  It decides whether Shepard accepts indoctrination, or rejects it (and s/he wakes on earth).

That was my point. You were the one arguing the Starchild was real and my point was, if that's the case, he revives Shepard instead of letting him die. Why doesn't he let Shepard die there, recall the Reaper ships and destroy the Crucible and organic fleets?

If it's an attempt at indoctrination, it can make sense. Reapers want to change Shepard's POV to there's. They failed with the TIM scene, try again with something more sympathetic.

If it's real, it makes no sense.

I never argued Starchild is real.  Sorry this was misinterpreted.  I believe it is a reaper attempting to persuade Shepard to join it (synergy, which it describes as the ideal).

[blizz55]

it seems strange to me that in the Normandy chase scene that there is paragon blue right behind the renegade red explosion. why did they do that? is it just them getting artistic?

[Peer of the Empire]

HairyMadDog1010 wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

To be completely fair, the only person that was standing between me and sending my games to hell was Jessica Merizan. However vague her tweets are, she answers as much as she can. She's just a community manager in an unmanageable situation.

I feel sorry for her, it must be like fighting fire with her bare hands, because I highly doubt she knows anythinng.

I'm sure she enjoys the attention

[Martukis]

So, on the topic of logical issues, where is docking bay D25? The one for the Normandy is D24, the door to the next one over is D26...

[Blackmind1]

Also, its a slow walk up to the Citadel beam AND up to the synthesis beam. There are many landmarks in both slow walks that share similarities between the two areas.

Anybody notice how we can move to the SOL relay ourselves, yet the autosave takes us straight back to before Cerberus? Why not just before Earth, the final mission?

Is their a way we could have been indoctrinated in the Cerberus HQ? The circular room being the illusive man's room, with the view of the Citadel arms simply being a projection on his window? We knoe that screen can change colour, we saw it at the end of ME2. It would explain why the bloody hallway looks identical to Cerberus HQ. I'll bet we never left.

Modifié par Blackmind1, 16 mars 2012 - 06:14 .

[Juliet_]

byne wrote...
snippysnip

 

I wanted to put this out there that this gives a good explanation on everything.
I trust this youtube-er, espeically with his other Mass Effect videos.
But that last sentence was just an opinion.

[K0M154R]

Rifneno wrote...

 When Legion has Shepard in the geth server, he explains the surroundings saying "Your mind interprets our world as something familiar." Shepard then mutters under his breath that there's nothing familiar about it.

The line seemed out of place since, as Shepard says, there's nothing familiar about that place. It would explain the million and one similarities in the possibly dream ending, though.

Agreed. How I/Shepard see it.

Collector base + Citadel + Shadowbroker Ship (all those sliding plates and static were way too familiar) + Illusive Man Cave = That mess of a dream sequence we got. 

[Vhalkyrie]

Martukis wrote...

So, on the topic of logical issues, where is docking bay D25? The one for the Normandy is D24, the door to the next one over is D26...

Maybe D25 is considered unlucky by the Asari.  Kind of like how some airlines skip row 13. 
../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png

Modifié par Vhalkyrie, 16 mars 2012 - 06:15 .

[kyg_20X6]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

I have a different interpretation.  I saw Sovereign as like the "One Ring".  Saren was unlucky enough to stumble upon it, but Sovereign chose Saren because it saw him as pliable and useful.  Saren was already a loose cannon - all he needed was the right strings manipulated.

Nah, doesn't explain the rest of the indoctrainated. He uses Saren in a very utilitarian way. To get the Geth heretics, to find the Conduit, to open the arms. I think Sovereign just looked at Saren as a useful tool. He doesn't try to to keep him a sleeper agent, or anything, straight away has ****ing up the galaxy looking for ways to open the relay since the Protheans blocked his signal. Sovereign, and Harbinger, seem to never look on any organics as anything more than tools or a problem to be fixed.

Except, maybe Shepard after ME1.  And at the end of ME3 the whole galaxy is following Shepard's lead. The whole resistance against the Reapers is following Shepard. Would killing Shepard change things? IDK. The Alliance would still probably try again to use the Crucible or at the very least, like Hackett says, attack the Reapers with everything they've got. Risky for the Reapers. But if you can convince Shepard of an alternative course of action, that synthesis is a good idea or that he has control of the Reapers... you are, in essence, placing a Saren or TIM at the head of all organic forces. A Saren/TIM that has the trust and loyalty of virtually the entire galaxy.

In addition: It might explain why Harbinger talks about wanting to possess Shepard (physically) during ME2 and that when indoctrinated forces capture Shepard (Arrival). They just try to keep him sedated until the Reapers arrive. Why not try and kill Shepard? Harbinger was probably going to attempt Shepard as soon as the Reapers arrived through the Alpha relay but Shepard escaped and Harbinger doesn't get another chance...

...until it has an unconcious Shepard lying right in front of it at the end of ME3.

Modifié par kyg_20X6, 16 mars 2012 - 06:24 .

[Icinix]

Beyond the evidence for indoctrination ending.

All through ME1, ME2 and ME3 - "We wanted to tell an epic player driven story, with defining choices and outcomes, where every choice you make has an affect on your story."

End of ME3: "Hur, Dur we dun make it so you can imagine whatever you like...."

Really? I just can't see BioWare - masters of the interactive fiction genre just doing a 180 like this. Its like a leopard trying to change its spots.

[MuNexus]

Even with the information released by the ME3 Final Hours app, I believe that indoctrination is the best way to explain the ending. The child like apparition that appears through out the game fits with the aspects of reaper indoctrination. What I don't understand is why they cut some content out in the end. Since it just makes it seem incomplete and raises more questions like why was Joker flying away and how did your companions get on the Normandy.

This entire situation has gotten out of hand, just because the ending became so vague on details and scenes near the end of it.

[Vhalkyrie]

kyg_20X6 wrote...

Vhalkyrie wrote...

I have a different interpretation.  I saw Sovereign as like the "One Ring".  Saren was unlucky enough to stumble upon it, but Sovereign chose Saren because it saw him as pliable and useful.  Saren was already a loose cannon - all he needed was the right strings manipulated.

Nah, doesn't explain the rest of the indoctrainated. He uses Saren in a very utilitarian way. To get the Geth heretics, to find the Conduit, to open the arms. I think Sovereign just looked at Saren as a useful tool. He doesn't try to to keep him a sleeper agent, or anything, straight away has ****ing up the galaxy looking for ways to open the relay since the Protheans blocked his signal. Sovereign, and Harbinger, seem to never look on any organics as anything more than tools or a problem to be fixed.

Yep.

Except, maybe Shepard after ME1.  And at the end of ME3 the whole galaxy is following Shepard's lead. The whole resistance against the Reapers is following Shepard. Would killing Shepard change things? IDK. The Alliance would still probably try again to use the Crucible or at the very least, like Hackett says, attack the Reapers with everything they've got. Risky for the Reapers. But if you can convince Shepard of an alternative course of action, that synthesis is a good idea or that he has control of the Reapers... you are, in essence, placing a Saren or TIM at the head of all organic forces. A Saren/TIM that has the trust and loyalty of virtually the entire galaxy.

Yes, killing Shepard would change things.  Shepard is cannon.  The forces they have are absolutely no match for the Reapers.  They never were.  The only hope they had was Shepard would find a way.  Countless generations of civilizations have built the crucible, and it was destroyed by the Reapers each time.  They say as much.  The hope that these civilizations had was to pass down the information on how to build the Crucible, in so that someone would get it right.

The catalyst is Shepard.  Always has been.

Modifié par Vhalkyrie, 16 mars 2012 - 06:24 .

[Leonia]

Blackmind1 wrote...

Also, its a slow walk up to the Citadel beam AND up to the synthesis beam. There are many landmarks in both slow walks that share similarities between the two areas.

Anybody notice how we can move to the SOL relay ourselves, yet the autosave takes us straight back to before Cerberus? Why not just before Earth, the final mission?

Is their a way we could have been indoctrinated in the Cerberus HQ? The circular room being the illusive man's room, with the view of the Citadel arms simply being a projection on his window? We knoe that screen can change colour, we saw it at the end of ME2. It would explain why the bloody hallway looks identical to Cerberus HQ. I'll bet we never left.

Did it not strike anyone else as odd that the first thing Shepard wants to do in that room is sit in that chair?

Modifié par leonia42, 16 mars 2012 - 06:26 .

[Vhalkyrie]

leonia42 wrote...

Did it not strike anyone else as odd that the first thing Shepard wants to do in that room is sit in that chair?

Dude.  That's the thing I vowed to do when I told TIM to blow off at the end of ME2!  

[Blackmind1]

I still believe in indoctrination, absolutely EVERYTHING points to it. It's also the conclusion I came up with straight away, after reading all of the books, comics, and codecs on the matter. I'm a bit of a Reaper fan boy.

I'm not about to get all pessimistic on this just yet. If this works, Bioware will have pulled a very clever fourth wall stunt on all of us. They're likely just waiting until all territories have the game and have near completed it before they announce plans.

I can guarantee that they didn't expect the backlash, though.

[Flammenpanzer]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

Did it not strike anyone else as odd that the first thing Shepard wants to do in that room is sit in that chair?

Dude.  That's the thing I vowed to do when I told TIM to blow off at the end of ME2!  

The final F-U to the IM. XD

[Ghrelt]

leonia42 wrote...

Blackmind1 wrote...

Also, its a slow walk up to the Citadel beam AND up to the synthesis beam. There are many landmarks in both slow walks that share similarities between the two areas.

Anybody notice how we can move to the SOL relay ourselves, yet the autosave takes us straight back to before Cerberus? Why not just before Earth, the final mission?

Is their a way we could have been indoctrinated in the Cerberus HQ? The circular room being the illusive man's room, with the view of the Citadel arms simply being a projection on his window? We knoe that screen can change colour, we saw it at the end of ME2. It would explain why the bloody hallway looks identical to Cerberus HQ. I'll bet we never left.

Did it not strike anyone else as odd that the first thing Shepard wants to do in that room is sit in that chair?

Yes!  I may have actually yelled, "Don't sit in the chair!" at my tv screen.

[Leonia]

I don't know, I wasn't really expecting to confront TIM there (he wouldn't be foolish enough to be caught so easily) and wasn't really interested in getting revenge or anything of that nature. But Shepard spend a considerable amount of time in that chair so.. something about it seemed important.

[Icinix]

leonia42 wrote...

Blackmind1 wrote...

Also, its a slow walk up to the Citadel beam AND up to the synthesis beam. There are many landmarks in both slow walks that share similarities between the two areas.

Anybody notice how we can move to the SOL relay ourselves, yet the autosave takes us straight back to before Cerberus? Why not just before Earth, the final mission?

Is their a way we could have been indoctrinated in the Cerberus HQ? The circular room being the illusive man's room, with the view of the Citadel arms simply being a projection on his window? We knoe that screen can change colour, we saw it at the end of ME2. It would explain why the bloody hallway looks identical to Cerberus HQ. I'll bet we never left.

Did it not strike anyone else as odd that the first thing Shepard wants to do in that room is sit in that chair?

YES! I mean - that chair could be like Blades sword or anything. Sitting there thinking you're tops then WHISH, blades come out and asplde you.

[Vhalkyrie]

Blackmind1 wrote...

Is their a way we could have been indoctrinated in the Cerberus HQ?

That would have been too fast.  The indotrination codex says it is a very long, slow process.  Indoctrination that happens too quickly makes the subject go erratic and insane.  Gradual indoctrination leads to the subject not being aware of it.  Sort of like "Inception".  The subject has to think it was their choice, while the Reapers are slowly implanting the idea.

[Blackmind1]

Also

http://i.imgur.com/04yzC.jpg

Into the mouth of the monster, anyone? Or maybe a throwback to John Carpenter's "In The Mouth of Madness".

Vhalkyrie wrote...

Blackmind1 wrote...

Is their a way we could have been indoctrinated in the Cerberus HQ?

That would have been too fast.  The indotrination codex says it is a very long, slow process.  Indoctrination that happens too quickly makes the subject go erratic and insane.  Gradual indoctrination leads to the subject not being aware of it.  Sort of like "Inception".  The subject has to think it was their choice, while the Reapers are slowly implanting the idea.

 

I phrased it wrong. Is there any way that The Illusive Man could be the one that kicked the process into full swing?

Modifié par Blackmind1, 16 mars 2012 - 06:34 .

[Gamingtrek12025]

We are being watched again