57139 réponses à ce sujet

[OneWithTheAssassins]

I just remembered something from my favorite childhood comic strip that discribes our situation so well. I'm sadden that I didn't remember it sooner when we were geting trolled.
"Its not denial. I'm (we're) just very selective about the reality I (we) accept." Calvin from "Calvin and Hobbes."

[theratking]

At this point, regardless of the future of Mass Effect, we can at least be content with the fact that we have come up with a nearly 600 page interpretation that works and is interesting to discuss, at least.

Modifié par theratking, 16 mars 2012 - 08:01 .

[Ichigo75XBL]

theratking wrote...

At this point, regardless of the future of Mass Effect, we can at least be content with the fact that we have come up with a nearly 600 page interpretation that works and is interesting to discuss, at least.

Have to agree with that statement of yours!

[Dae0]

theratking wrote...

At this point, regardless of the future of Mass Effect, we can at least be content with the fact that we have come up with a nearly 600 page interpretation that works and is interesting to discuss, at least.

and if Bioware already hasnt begun work on an ending dlc, they would be bloody nuts to not make use of some of these great ideas.

[Flammenpanzer]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

anyone know where I can get a indoctrination banner?

Future tip: for almost all pictures...you can right-click and go 'Copy Image Location'. That will give you the directly URL for the image

[kaotician]

kw0lf wrote...

I'm not sure the child can be thought of as part of indoctrination ... on Thessia, the Prothean would not have talked to Shepard if he/she was indoctrinated (it immediately identified KL as an indoctrinated presence).

Did it? I'm not so sure Kai Leng was the one it meant, that whole scene played out (deliberately) ambiguously, to hide the truth from us but to give us a clue at the same time. Kai Leng isn't indoctrinated. Sure, he's had (likely) Reaper inflected mods fitted, but they've been manufactured by TIM. Why would they cause indoctrination too? Only TIM has Reaper mods directly fitted, as we see in the video scenes on the Cerberus base.

[ULS 980]

kaotician wrote...

kw0lf wrote...

I'm not sure the child can be thought of as part of indoctrination ... on Thessia, the Prothean would not have talked to Shepard if he/she was indoctrinated (it immediately identified KL as an indoctrinated presence).

Did it? I'm not so sure Kai Leng was the one it meant, that whole scene played out (deliberately) ambiguously, to hide the truth from us but to give us a clue at the same time. Kai Leng isn't indoctrinated. Sure, he's had (likely) Reaper inflected mods fitted, but they've been manufactured by TIM. Why would they cause indoctrination too? Only TIM has Reaper mods directly fitted, as we see in the video scenes on the Cerberus base.

The VI agrees to interface with Shepard's suit or something (after Shepard asks what the Catalyst is) and then turns around directing his attention towards Kai Leng when he says "Indoctrinated presence detected".

It's definitely Kai Leng who's indoctrinated in that scene.

However, in TIM's lab, the fact that the VI responds to Shepard with "Security Protocols overridden, I will comply" (implying it wouldn't comply if it's security protocols were not overridden) I think could be some juicy info.

Modifié par ULS 980, 16 mars 2012 - 08:32 .

[kaotician]

ULS 980 wrote...

kaotician wrote...

kw0lf wrote...

I'm not sure the child can be thought of as part of indoctrination ... on Thessia, the Prothean would not have talked to Shepard if he/she was indoctrinated (it immediately identified KL as an indoctrinated presence).

Did it? I'm not so sure Kai Leng was the one it meant, that whole scene played out (deliberately) ambiguously, to hide the truth from us but to give us a clue at the same time. Kai Leng isn't indoctrinated. Sure, he's had (likely) Reaper inflected mods fitted, but they've been manufactured by TIM. Why would they cause indoctrination too? Only TIM has Reaper mods directly fitted, as we see in the video scenes on the Cerberus base.

The VI agrees to interface with Shepard's suit or something (after Shepard asks what the Catalyst is) and then turns around directing his attention towards Kai Leng when he says "Indoctrinated presence detected".

It's definitely Kai Leng who's indoctrinated in that scene.

However, in TIM's lab, the fact that the VI responds to Shepard with "Security Protocols overridden, I will comply" (implying it wouldn't comply if it's security protocols were not overridden) I think could be some juicy info.

A good counter-argument. However, doesn't the video on the Cerberus base imply that TIM is the first person to have Reaper tech actually installed? At that point in TIM's indoctrination process, he's as deluded as Saren was about his ability to control the Reaper tech, and so, thinking it's his own decision, gets the implants installed, when that's exactly what allows the Reapers to control him more easily, and is in fact their own suggestion.

Modifié par kaotician, 16 mars 2012 - 08:38 .

[Exterminians]

"The accumulated filth of all their silence and fan-murdering will foam up about their waists and EA and Bioware will look up and shout "Save us!"... and the fanbase will whisper "no." "

[Martukis]

kaotician wrote...

ULS 980 wrote...

kaotician wrote...

kw0lf wrote...

I'm not sure the child can be thought of as part of indoctrination ... on Thessia, the Prothean would not have talked to Shepard if he/she was indoctrinated (it immediately identified KL as an indoctrinated presence).

Did it? I'm not so sure Kai Leng was the one it meant, that whole scene played out (deliberately) ambiguously, to hide the truth from us but to give us a clue at the same time. Kai Leng isn't indoctrinated. Sure, he's had (likely) Reaper inflected mods fitted, but they've been manufactured by TIM. Why would they cause indoctrination too? Only TIM has Reaper mods directly fitted, as we see in the video scenes on the Cerberus base.

The VI agrees to interface with Shepard's suit or something (after Shepard asks what the Catalyst is) and then turns around directing his attention towards Kai Leng when he says "Indoctrinated presence detected".

It's definitely Kai Leng who's indoctrinated in that scene.

However, in TIM's lab, the fact that the VI responds to Shepard with "Security Protocols overridden, I will comply" (implying it wouldn't comply if it's security protocols were not overridden) I think could be some juicy info.

A good counter-argument. However, doesn't the video on the Cerberus base imply that TIM is the first person to have Reaper tech actually installed?

 Actually, I think it is quite the opposite - the doctor talks about the dangers and failures they had with other experiments. TIM simply says something like "I know the risks, but this is necessary."

[kaotician]

Martukis wrote...

kaotician wrote...

ULS 980 wrote...

kaotician wrote...

kw0lf wrote...

I'm not sure the child can be thought of as part of indoctrination ... on Thessia, the Prothean would not have talked to Shepard if he/she was indoctrinated (it immediately identified KL as an indoctrinated presence).

Did it? I'm not so sure Kai Leng was the one it meant, that whole scene played out (deliberately) ambiguously, to hide the truth from us but to give us a clue at the same time. Kai Leng isn't indoctrinated. Sure, he's had (likely) Reaper inflected mods fitted, but they've been manufactured by TIM. Why would they cause indoctrination too? Only TIM has Reaper mods directly fitted, as we see in the video scenes on the Cerberus base.

The VI agrees to interface with Shepard's suit or something (after Shepard asks what the Catalyst is) and then turns around directing his attention towards Kai Leng when he says "Indoctrinated presence detected".

It's definitely Kai Leng who's indoctrinated in that scene.

However, in TIM's lab, the fact that the VI responds to Shepard with "Security Protocols overridden, I will comply" (implying it wouldn't comply if it's security protocols were not overridden) I think could be some juicy info.

A good counter-argument. However, doesn't the video on the Cerberus base imply that TIM is the first person to have Reaper tech actually installed?

 Actually, I think it is quite the opposite - the doctor talks about the dangers and failures they had with other experiments. TIM simply says something like "I know the risks, but this is necessary."

Meaning that it's not worked before, surely?

[Raziel713]

It seems a lot of people have been indoctrinated. Those Reapers are smooth operators.

[DarthSyphilis59]

Dae0 wrote...

theratking wrote...

At this point, regardless of the future of Mass Effect, we can at least be content with the fact that we have come up with a nearly 600 page interpretation that works and is interesting to discuss, at least.

and if Bioware already hasnt begun work on an ending dlc, they would be bloody nuts to not make use of some of these great ideas.

Boy you both said it!!!

[mmdestiny]

Points that need to be kept in mind. The books (with the exception of the 4th until it is revised) are all canon. TIM didn't learn how to integrate Reaper tech into humans until after ME2, with the Grayson project. Shep's cybernetics are not Reaper in nature, TIM didn't get the technology to simulate the Reaper transformation of an organic until studying the remains of the Collector base.

HOWEVER, anyone fitted with TIM's cybernetics in ME3 are outfitted with the Reaper tech used in the Grayson project. This includes Kai Leng, who was outfitted with cybernetics to heal the wounds Anderson left him when he shot out both his kneecaps. It is the same tech used to enhance Grayson, as is apparent by his newfound biotic powers (KL is not naturally a biotic) and superhuman abilities, both of which Grayson obtained through the upgrades. Shepard also flat out comments on his use of Reaper tech, which KL does not deny. Clearly, since it is the same tech as Grayson, it will have begun indoctrinating him in the same way, thus the Prothean VI's defensive nature.

[Dae0]

Raziel713 wrote...

It seems a lot of people have been indoctrinated. Those Reapers are smooth operators.

I guess considering that they are massive machines that do quite a bit of subversion before actually invading, they would need to be particularly talented at discretely manipulating people.


Something that's been bugging me tho is in my last ME2 playthrough I opted to destroy the collector base (not purge it), yet the illusive man somehow was able to recover most of the human reaper from between the "exploding stars and black holes". How is that possible?

Modifié par Dae0, 16 mars 2012 - 08:50 .

[musicaleCA]

Dae0 wrote...

theratking wrote...

At this point, regardless of the future of Mass Effect, we can at least be content with the fact that we have come up with a nearly 600 page interpretation that works and is interesting to discuss, at least.

and if Bioware already hasnt begun work on an ending dlc, they would be bloody nuts to not make use of some of these great ideas.

See, that's the rub. I think, if the hallucination/indoctrination theory is right, BioWare horribly miscalculated. Players have come-up with a theory that would allow for the ending to be "fixed". Since that theory is now fleshed-out far before any news from BioWare on a new ending, if there isn't an announcement soon, a new ending DLC from BioWare can be written-off by fans and reviewers as them having simply expanded the ending in a way that appears acceptable to fans. Good profit motive to do it in any case.

But hell, I'm far too cynical of anything with an EA sticker on it to think this is much more than a writing snafu.

What might be telling, if a new or expanded ending is released at some point, is whether or not we have to pay for it. If we need to pay for this theoretical complete ending, it'd be roughly equivalent to going to a movie theatre and then the management stopping the film right at its climax, then demanding ten bucks extra if you want to see the rest. I don't know of any precidence in the entertainment industry for anything like it, that is, promising the whole package plus ending, but then cutting the customers off and demanding more money to see the end. When I bought ME3, I expected the whole package. If the ending was deliberatly left-out for some future date and/or DLC...I didn't get what I paid for.

I can't speak for others, but if I had to pay for it...I would. Would I buy another BioWare game after that kind of experience? Absolutely not. Gods help the poor souls on dial-up.

Modifié par musicaleCA, 16 mars 2012 - 08:52 .

[Baihu1983]

If it was and picking the red explosion is the right option does that mean its lieing when it says all other AI will die like the geth/edi?

[kaotician]

I said several hundreds of pages ago, after finishing the game for the first time, that I sat there waiting for a 'To Be Continued....' sign to pop up, and was surprised when it didn't. I think the sum of the wisdom here aggregates to the idea that what we're seeing is in fact all in Shepherd's mind - there's just far too much evidence in favour of the hypothesis, and simply none that reduces any of that evidence to zero in the counter-view. We're seeing the decision to fight on happen in Shepherd's mind, we see him/her take a breath at the end, and the final visions are Shep's dreams, hopes and aspirations - that is, that the crew survive, particularly that Joker and Edi make it, and that the galaxy is a safe place for children to grow up in again.

So, To Be Continued, surely?

Hopefully, with Shepherd getting back on his feet, after being knocked senseless moments earlier......

[Dae0]

musicaleCA wrote...

Dae0 wrote...

theratking wrote...

At this point, regardless of the future of Mass Effect, we can at least be content with the fact that we have come up with a nearly 600 page interpretation that works and is interesting to discuss, at least.

and if Bioware already hasnt begun work on an ending dlc, they would be bloody nuts to not make use of some of these great ideas.

See, that's the rub. I think, if the hallucination/indoctrination theory is right, BioWare horribly miscalculated. Players have come-up with a theory that would allow for the ending to be "fixed". Since that theory is now fleshed-out far before any news from BioWare on a new ending, if there isn't an announcement soon, a new ending DLC from BioWare can be written-off by fans and reviewers as them having simply expanded the ending in a way that appears acceptable to fans. Good profit motive to do it in any case.

But hell, I'm far too cynical of anything with an EA sticker on it to think this is much more than a writing snafu.

What might be telling is, if a new or expanded ending is released at some point, is whether or not we have to pay for it. If we need to pay for this theoretical complete ending, it'd be tantamount to going to a movie theatre and then the management stopping the film right at its climax, then demanding ten bucks extra if you want to see the rest. I don't know of any precidence in the entertainment industry for anything like it, that is, promising the whole package plus ending, but then cutting the customers off and demanding more money to see the end. When I bought ME3, I expected the whole package. If the ending was deliberatly left-out for some future date and/or DLC...I didn't get what I paid for.

I can't speak for others, but if I had to pay for it...I would. Would I buy another BioWare game after that kind of experience? Absolutely not. Gods help the poor souls on dial-up.

I just read the article on "the truth" dlc via a translated version of the russian bioware forum post and I have to say that everything claimed in that post does make sense. My only real concern is that if EA/Bioware was willing to scrap the planned ending for this monstrosity once because it was "leaked" pre release, what would stop them from doing it again now that their new plans were "leaked". Assuming, of course, that that was their plan before it was leaked.


Heres the link from earlier in this thread I believe:
http://www.bioware.r..._truth_dlc.html

Modifié par Dae0, 16 mars 2012 - 08:57 .

[ULS 980]

Baihu1983 wrote...

If it was and picking the red explosion is the right option does that mean its lieing when it says all other AI will die like the geth/edi?

Well he already seemingly lied to you when he said you'd die if you chose the destroy ending.
So based on that, I'd say it's assumed that the Geth/EDI will not die as well, assuming the theory is correct.

[FrostByte-GER]

And some new news?

[Dae0]

Baihu1983 wrote...

If it was and picking the red explosion is the right option does that mean its lieing when it says all other AI will die like the geth/edi?

Ms Merizan sure seemed to be trying to imply that "everything may not be what it seems" and "is the reaper child actually telling the truth", but what does she know? She is just a community mod after all...

[musicaleCA]

Baihu1983 wrote...

If it was and picking the red explosion is the right option does that mean its lieing when it says all other AI will die like the geth/edi?

My guess would be yes.

Damn it'd be nice to have a VI to condese these hundreds of pages into its base conclusions and most common points. Bah.

[kaotician]

Baihu1983 wrote...

If it was and picking the red explosion is the right option does that mean its lieing when it says all other AI will die like the geth/edi?

Personally, I think so. The evidence for my view is that we see quite clearly Edi emerge from the Normandy after it crashes, which if we take the kid's words at face value simply shouldn't happen. Edi should be gone.