57139 réponses à ce sujet

[jackncoke28]

mutermath wrote...

njfluffy19 wrote...

Can someone agree to stab my eyes out if the endings remain as they now stand? Kthx.

gladly:)

Dont listen, its indoctrination talking, causing friend to turn on friend. Must stay. strong. fight urge. to stab eyes... 
ok im better now, thank you space magic

Modifié par jackncoke28, 16 mars 2012 - 06:53 .

[Flapperrr]

I am holding the line!

[ArkkAngel007]

Maike91 wrote...

Hey guys, I just wanted to say that as much as I want this to be true, for now it's just a theory. Something that tries to explain this mess of an ending that we got. I read that some people are saying, that those who don't believe in it just don't get it. My problem with this is, that it seems to divide the retake mass effect movement. I think we should work together. Hold the line!

It hasn't really divided it, not with many of us.  Most of us I can say are dissapointed about the ending, some of us angry.  But we noticed things, and put together a theory on the WHY behind the endings.

And yes, it's only a theory.  Those who are pulling the fact card with it need to sit back down and calm down.  However, it's more refreshing to hear it being discussed as a theory than to hear BS reasons that have no logic behind them.  

What is dividing more-so are those that are extremely angry, which is a substantial number, harassing any post that deviates from calling for BioWare's blood on the matter.  I get the anger, and when I first read the script and saw the pictures and footage before release, I was angry too.  But I'm waiting to see how it plays out.  I don't have the money to spare to donate towards the cause of changing the endings and getting that message out, but I should still be able to have a healthy discussion over the technical and creative aspects of BioWare's design of the ME3 ending.

So, while I applaud you for coming in here and being civil, I think this needs to be directed more in the other direction.

Btw, keep holding the line.

Modifié par ArkkAngel007, 16 mars 2012 - 06:53 .

[fieryace]

So I was wondering what other people thought of this. People have been repeatedly posting that the Synthesis and Control endings both end with Shep dead or indoctrinated. But, if you assume that this is planned and the there will be more happening after the current ending, wouldn't Shep have to survive all three endings? I'm curious to see how people think that could happen (that shep could survive all "3" endings).

[ArkkAngel007]

Follow up post as I'd rather not break up my last post with two separate topics:

This thread is to discuss the indoctrination theory. It isn't about other theories, it isn't about how ****ed off you are at BioWare and/or EA, this isn't about Day 1 DLC or really even future DLC.

If you have a beef with BioWare and want it known, there are other threads for that, and the lack of mod control lately would probably allow you to post whatever thread you want to get your message across in. But this thread isn't the place for it.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

LukaCrosszeria wrote...

[*]Another clue is the mass relays being destroyed in all the scenarios. That's the end of the Mass Effect universe. The destruction of a mass relay means the destruction of the star system it's in, Arrival made that clear. No more Earth, Thessia, Tuchanka, Palaven, no more Citadel. One could argue that is acceptable to Shep if it means
finally putting a stop to the cycle of destruction that's been going on for eons, but it will in fact lead to near-galactic extinction of organic civilization. The races have lost their homeworlds, their seats of governments. The only thing out there will be ships in transit and colonies. Without the relays to connect them, they will rapidly regress. In this setting, no future ME games are possible. That can't be the idea .

                                                                                                                                                                                                             Actually that the relays dont explode might simply have something to do with the nature of the way the Crucible destroys them. Flinging a giant rock at it and destroying it conventionely probably destablizes the power source creating the explosion. That might not be the case here, like if the crucible shuts down or changes the power core before the relay is destroyed meaning the explosion dosent take place, wouldbnt put it past it since we know the Reapers could shut down the relay network from the citadel. But yeah the destruction of the relays would severily limit galactic civilazation, at least until they learned to contsruct relays of their own.

[ArkkAngel007]

fieryace wrote...

So I was wondering what other people thought of this. People have been repeatedly posting that the Synthesis and Control endings both end with Shep dead or indoctrinated. But, if you assume that this is planned and the there will be more happening after the current ending, wouldn't Shep have to survive all three endings? I'm curious to see how people think that could happen (that shep could survive all "3" endings).

Well, some have suggested that there may be opening cutscenes in the DLC (or continuation to the cutscene after that whole sequence) that shows the aftermath/outcome of that decision.  So you may see a dead/indoctrinated/husk Shepard and the result of it.  

[noobcannon]

blueboxblues wrote...

keith123456789 wrote...

We Should get news hopefully by sunday or saterday

Doubtful, Asia just got the game yesterday. I still say either at the PAX panel (or the day before the PAX panel so they don't get completely destroyed by fans at the actual panel) or April 11.

that's soooo far away. i really hope they don't wait that long.

[redBadger14]

fieryace wrote...

So I was wondering what other people thought of this. People have been repeatedly posting that the Synthesis and Control endings both end with Shep dead or indoctrinated. But, if you assume that this is planned and the there will be more happening after the current ending, wouldn't Shep have to survive all three endings? I'm curious to see how people think that could happen (that shep could survive all "3" endings).

The indoctrination theory goes off of the fact that, if the Destroy ending is chosen, then Shepard wakes up and breaks Harbinger's hold on him, resisting the indoctrination.

In Control and Synthesis, Shepard succumbs to indoctrination. In all three endings we try to stress with the theory that, whichever "ending" you choose, we hope BioWare will release DLC that extends out from this, and the way the game really ends will greatly vary based on whether you chose Destroy, Synthesis, or Control.

At least, that's what I am aware of (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

[Giskler]

Havent followed the thread for a while, so I dont know if this has already been mentioned, but I just watched the last nightmare sequence again and noticed the following: When you watch dream-Shepard hug the god-child theres an ominous sound when he/she opens his/her eyes and the iris of dream-Shepards eyes are black instead of the iris color you picked.

I know its mentioned all the time that asari eyes turn black when they get indoctrinated, not sure if its the same for humans, but it might be another clue for the theory.

[blueboxblues]

fieryace wrote...

So I was wondering what other people thought of this. People have been repeatedly posting that the Synthesis and Control endings both end with Shep dead or indoctrinated. But, if you assume that this is planned and the there will be more happening after the current ending, wouldn't Shep have to survive all three endings? I'm curious to see how people think that could happen (that shep could survive all "3" endings).

There's been a few theories that it just makes the ending more difficult, or different, if you choose those. A few pages ago someone mentioned a theory that if you chose synthesis or control then you'd have to play as a squad member and fight ID Shepard...which would be amazing. I mean, if the entire sequence was all in Shepard's mind, they can do ANYTHING from here on out...we'll have to wait and see.

[jackncoke28]

fieryace wrote...

So I was wondering what other people thought of this. People have been repeatedly posting that the Synthesis and Control endings both end with Shep dead or indoctrinated. But, if you assume that this is planned and the there will be more happening after the current ending, wouldn't Shep have to survive all three endings? I'm curious to see how people think that could happen (that shep could survive all "3" endings).

I personaly don't see it being necessary for shep to live in all 3 endings, there has to be consequences for sheps decisions in order for them to mean anything. I would expect one choice to have you live and ready to finish the battle, one choice to have you live, but consiquences coming with it that have squadmates die, or making battle more difficult, and 3rd choice having shep out right defeated.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

fieryace wrote...

So I was wondering what other people thought of this. People have been repeatedly posting that the Synthesis and Control endings both end with Shep dead or indoctrinated. But, if you assume that this is planned and the there will be more happening after the current ending, wouldn't Shep have to survive all three endings? I'm curious to see how people think that could happen (that shep could survive all "3" endings).

Well if it continues maybe someone else snaps Shepard out of it, a crew member or similar, hell maybe even the Illusive Man.

Could actually be cool to have a sequence of your crewmembers fighting the controlled Shepard trying to make him snap out of it. Even better if the worst option of the three (controlling the Reapers) meant Sheaprd only snaps out of it long enough to complete the mission and then puts a gun to his head like Saren did.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 16 mars 2012 - 07:04 .

[Maike91]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

Maike91 wrote...

Hey guys, I just wanted to say that as much as I want this to be true, for now it's just a theory. Something that tries to explain this mess of an ending that we got. I read that some people are saying, that those who don't believe in it just don't get it. My problem with this is, that it seems to divide the retake mass effect movement. I think we should work together. Hold the line!

It hasn't really divided it, not with many of us.  Most of us I can say are dissapointed about the ending, some of us angry.  But we noticed things, and put together a theory on the WHY behind the endings.

And yes, it's only a theory.  Those who are pulling the fact card with it need to sit back down and calm down.  However, it's more refreshing to hear it being discussed as a theory than to hear BS reasons that have no logic behind them.  

What is dividing more-so are those that are extremely angry, which is a substantial number, harassing any post that deviates from calling for BioWare's blood on the matter.  I get the anger, and when I first read the script and saw the pictures and footage before release, I was angry too.  But I'm waiting to see how it plays out.  I don't have the money to spare to donate towards the cause of changing the endings and getting that message out, but I should still be able to have a healthy discussion over the technical and creative aspects of BioWare's design of the ME3 ending.

So, while I applaud you for coming in here and being civil, I think this needs to be directed more in the other direction.

Btw, keep holding the line.

I really understand that. I just can't believe that the people who created 2 great games and 99% of the third game just finish this series the way it seems at first. I will give them the time they need to give us the "real" ending. And even if they, for whatever reason, didn't think about this theory, they should still run with this and give Shepard the ending he/she deserves. And if they don't, well I don't think I can play any of the games again, because even though in my head the dream happens after being hit by harby, I am still lacking closure.

[mmdestiny]

Most likely a design oversight, but when Shep wakes up after being hit by Harbinger, you can shoot his pistol before he even picks it up, before you even have control over him. Kinda strange.

[jackncoke28]

jackncoke28 wrote...

RinuCZ wrote...

N3vDawg wrote...
Come on... Think, if it was indeed indoctrination then it wouldn't have been real. The reapers being destroyed and the Normandy crash landing would've been in his head.

Unschuld wrote...

 

jackncoke28 wrote...

 
Indoctrination is a process which clouds your thinking, it's not about dreaming. I view it as an artificiallly developed schizophrenia. For example, a bit extreme, if you are speaking with someone and starts to hear a moderator on a radio station who keeps telling you to stab the other person and you do it because it seems like a right thing to do, the most probably everything happened except the moderator's speech which was in your head.

But, since shepard is knocked unconcious by harbingers beam, it stands to reason that the only way it will manifest itself is in shepard's unconcious mind in the form a dream like sequence. Also id like to add that i dont beleive this his Harbinger making an attempt, i think its part of indoctrination take a hold of shepard period. In the miranda mission we find out through her fathers research that adreanaline is more effective at speeding up indoctrination process than even red sand. Charging at at teleportation beam to save the galaxy while a giant reaper is shooting at you is cause for a great deal of adreanaline pumping through you. This can explain why it happens to shepard when it does.

Self bump, just to keep some theory discussions going

[Noob451]

Giskler wrote...

Havent followed the thread for a while, so I dont know if this has already been mentioned, but I just watched the last nightmare sequence again and noticed the following: When you watch dream-Shepard hug the god-child theres an ominous sound when he/she opens his/her eyes and the iris of dream-Shepards eyes are black instead of the iris color you picked.

I know its mentioned all the time that asari eyes turn black when they get indoctrinated, not sure if its the same for humans, but it might be another clue for the theory.

asari eyes turn black when they "embrace eternity"

[Seeten]

krobinson_3232 wrote...

Martukis wrote...

Or it could be Earth, yeah? The relay goes nuts, Joker sees it coming and heads back to Earth?

there were two moons on that planet

Maybe one is the Crucible.

Thats no moon!

[Sammuthegreat]

I really like this theory and think it holds a whole lot of water. There's just one thing that doesn't quite add up for me though.

If the whole sequence on the Citadel was a hallucination, how come it had actual, tangible effects? Because whichever choice you made, something genuine happened in the real world. If you chose blue, then the reapers left and the galaxy was saved. If you chose synthesis, then the reapers left and the galaxy was saved. If you chose red, then the reapers were all actually destroyed.

Surely none of those consequences could have happened if the whole sequence only occurred in Shepard's mind? Or maybe that's what the Catalyst was - a means of converting Shepard's mental choice into a real-world action?

EDIT for clarity: what I'm saying is that if it all happened in Shep's mind, how come the reapers actually died/mass relays actually exploded/Normandy actually crash-landed on some random planet?

I can get my head around the fact that Shepard "dying" in the blue and synthesis endings is just a metaphor for him succumbing to indoctrination rather than physically dying in the real world (at the point of full indoctrination maybe he loses all sense of who he was before and control over his body - similar in effect to dying?). I just can't quite rationalise how the galaxy was ACTUALLY saved if the red choice took place in the realms of Shepard's imagination, because that way no actual physical action was taken to cause the reapers' death.

Modifié par Sammuthegreat, 16 mars 2012 - 07:14 .

[Capeo]

fieryace wrote...

So I was wondering what other people thought of this. People have been repeatedly posting that the Synthesis and Control endings both end with Shep dead or indoctrinated. But, if you assume that this is planned and the there will be more happening after the current ending, wouldn't Shep have to survive all three endings? I'm curious to see how people think that could happen (that shep could survive all "3" endings).

Being logical... not wanted here.

[jackncoke28]

Sammuthegreat wrote...

I really like this theory and think it holds a whole lot of water. There's just one thing that doesn't quite add up for me though.

If the whole sequence on the Citadel was a hallucination, how come it had actual, tangible effects? Because whichever choice you made, something genuine happened in the real world. If you chose blue, then the reapers left and the galaxy was saved. If you chose synthesis, then the reapers left and the galaxy was saved. If you chose red, then the reapers were all actually destroyed.

Surely none of those consequences could have happened if the whole sequence only occurred in Shepard's mind? Or maybe that's what the Catalyst was - a means of converting Shepard's mental choice into a real-world action?

The theory speculates that everything tha you see happen between harbinger blasting shepard and him/her taking a breath after destroy sequence, was going on inside his/her mind.

[Lorakan]

Has anyone noticed that in both the Control and Synthesize choices, the view focuses on Shepard choosing to drop his weapon before grabbing/jumping?  He makes the choice to stop fighting.

In the Destroy option, this is obviously not the case.  With every shot he gets stronger and stronger, as if he was breaking the hold over himself.

[lex0r11]

Capeo wrote...

fieryace wrote...

So I was wondering what other people thought of this. People have been repeatedly posting that the Synthesis and Control endings both end with Shep dead or indoctrinated. But, if you assume that this is planned and the there will be more happening after the current ending, wouldn't Shep have to survive all three endings? I'm curious to see how people think that could happen (that shep could survive all "3" endings).

Being logical... not wanted here.

youtu.be/a1Y73sPHKxw

Modifié par lex0r11, 16 mars 2012 - 07:13 .

[jackncoke28]

Capeo wrote...

fieryace wrote...

So I was wondering what other people thought of this. People have been repeatedly posting that the Synthesis and Control endings both end with Shep dead or indoctrinated. But, if you assume that this is planned and the there will be more happening after the current ending, wouldn't Shep have to survive all three endings? I'm curious to see how people think that could happen (that shep could survive all "3" endings).

Being logical... not wanted here.

question was answered a couple posts in a row if you look up

[ArkkAngel007]

Maike91 wrote...


I really understand that. I just can't believe that the people who created 2 great games and 99% of the third game just finish this series the way it seems at first. I will give them the time they need to give us the "real" ending. And even if they, for whatever reason, didn't think about this theory, they should still run with this and give Shepard the ending he/she deserves. And if they don't, well I don't think I can play any of the games again, because even though in my head the dream happens after being hit by harby, I am still lacking closure.

Yeah, it's rather jarring, and the possibility that they left it open that way, indoctrination or not, was not a sound move.  Best thing they can do is, yes, create some closure material.  At this point, it's a no win situation for BioWare, but there will at least be some satisfaction brought their way from the fans if they try to rectify it.

But the fans really need to stop attacking each other over something so benign.