57139 réponses à ce sujet

[SillyNydia]

As cool as it would be to have an ending so complex and well thought out as this would be after sitting and really thinking about it... It can't be justified.

When you make your charge and get hit by the beam, your squad stays back because bioware wanted them to. During all endings we see Joker and your love interest get off the normandy followed by 1 other person, now I'm not sure who this would be for all of you but for me it was Javik which I brought with me on the mission. So we know he isn't killed by the beam and if you had your love interest on your squad.. they also hung back so "seeing them be safe to keep fighting or die in peace" doesn't apply.

Everything up to the beam is crystal clear, after the beam you're dazed and injured and there is blood around the edges of the screen to support the injury, not black wavy lines suggesting indoctrination. There is a black haze to start with but its not the same as when you're with Anderson and the Illusive Man.

Anderson follows you to the Citadel but doesn't end up in the same starting spot as you do which is stated right away, now you could argue that there is only one entrance to the console room but as stated through dialogue the walls are realigning and the citadel is changing. You eventually make it to the console room where Anderson is being partially controlled. When the Illusive man walks in behind you is when the first real wavy black lines show up on the edge of your screen, showing that he has control of you/the start of indoctrination yes. Indoctrination forces your obedence and assumes control by making you feel like you're doing the right thing this is why when you have to kill the Illusive man it is a renegade option. He doesn't want you to but you're resisting his control (Paragon choices become Renegade) Shepard even struggles and shakes his head when shooting him.

The arms open, the crucible moves into place and then Hackett tells Shepard that its not firing and he tries to activate it but passes out. Then you see the elevator take him away. You then see a holographic boy, the same boy Shepard saw die on Earth. He is the catalyst and the Citadel is part of him. Now how it looks like the boy I don't know maybe it picked up on it when it was trying to control Shepard through the Illusive man or maybe the writers wanted it in there because it was someone Shepard felt sympathetic towards throught out the entire game, but either way It is someone Shepard is sympathetic towards (lack of explanation is just bad writing) It goes on to explain that he controls the Reapers, they are part of his solution chaos. "The created will always rebel against their creators. But we found a way to stop that from happening. A way to restore order to the next cycle." (Which suggests that the citadel and this virtual intelligence *in my opinion* were the creation of the first species to make an AI that rebelled, a last ditch effort to ensure that it wouldn't happen again, EVER.)

The crucible was built to change its way of thinking over thousands of years, when the arms were opened and the crucible connected it reprogrammed the catalyst. The reason Shepard has to choose is because obviously the creators of the crucible wouldn't want a machine to make the decision. The catalyst while faced with these new options still leans towards Control/Synthesis because that ensures their survival.

Choosing to destroy them leads to seeing what appears to be Shepard taking a breath, We see the citadel explode in the previous but the portion he was on was intact, if you listen to the audio closesly it sounds like ruins, metal squeels, etc all around him similar to what it would in a ruined ship. As for the Normandy and crew ... the ground forces were falling back to regroup but you have to figure that all the reaper ships were coming down to the transport beam which would have made any other attempt impossible at reaching the citadel, the fleets were probably retreating because of this.

I'm not saying my way is correct but plot holes, disregard for any clarity makes me feel I should take the ending at face value. Poor writing for an ending in a way. Believe me, I wish it could be as genious as what has been theorized but I don't think the writers thought it through that well.

[ValnKmere]

fieryace wrote...

So I was wondering what other people thought of this. People have been repeatedly posting that the Synthesis and Control endings both end with Shep dead or indoctrinated. But, if you assume that this is planned and the there will be more happening after the current ending, wouldn't Shep have to survive all three endings? I'm curious to see how people think that could happen (that shep could survive all "3" endings).

I'd look at this like this if you didn't choose destroy: Shepard wakes up and realizes how close he was to being indoctrinated.  He's able to steel his resolve because maybe if its really just hallucination or Reaper influence, he realizes that he may possibly fail.

It just makes him more fallable, not necessarily dead.  He's human, after all.

[tatortodd22]

dawtree wrote...

All for Indoctrination Theory. Here's a logical leap:

If the three "endings" and their way of becoming initiated has always exited, why didn't the Starchild just choose Synthesis in the very beginning? If that space magic has always been present, couldn't the Reapers have saved themselves a lot of time by doing that in the first place, thus eliminating the necessity to harvest every 50,000 years? Also, I find the "Destroy" node very silly, like when you see bad guys in cartoons who have a blatant self-destruct button on their secret hideout.

All very fishy.

The Indoctrination Theory to me is not a Reaper construct drawing Shepard into their turf. It is the Reaper invasion of Shepard's mind. So the option is still there because it is Shepard's mind. The Reapers can only try to convince him he's wrong and present the option that The Illusive Man (indoctrinated) chose, because it is invading his mind. He is defending against their influence. Only sticking to his guns and choosing to destroy them would wake him back up/give him control again. I'm making a few part video about all of this.

youtube.com/user/GuideMeSilly

[iwillkillfortali]

Tali'Zorah here
And I WILL HOLD THE F**KING LINE!

Modifié par iwillkillfortali, 16 mars 2012 - 08:18 .

[CALLING IN DOGS]

I'm not sure if this has anything to do with the theory but, in the first Mass Effect after the first mission where you first make contact with a protean beacon. When talking to the doctor and you tell her it's more like a nightmare, you hear echos of what you're saying in your head.

[Raze4573]

Shepard-Commander. Holding the line. The Indoctrination theory is the only thing keeping me up and running. And if it fails, already started writing my ME3 ending fan fic. If BioWare cant deliver, I'll just make my own choice, like we were supposed to do in the whole Mass Effect trilogy.
And about Kirrahe...

You all know the mission, and what is at stake.
I have come to trust BioWare with my endings -- but I have also heard murmurs of discontent. I share your concerns.
We are trained for roleplay; we would be legends, but the games are sealed. Glory in silence is not our way.
Think of our heroes; the Drew Karpyshyn, who defeated the unreading with a single book. Or the Jack Wall, who kept sounds at bay with hidden tunes.
These giants do not seem to give us solace here, but they are not all that we are.
Before the ending, there were the fans. Before forum wars, there were players!
Our influence stopped the noobs, but before that we held the line!
Our influence stopped the fools, but before that, we held the line!
Our influence will stop lame endings; in the battle today, we will hold the line!

Modifié par Raze4573, 16 mars 2012 - 08:18 .

[dawtree]

tatortodd22 wrote...

dawtree wrote...

All for Indoctrination Theory. Here's a logical leap:

If the three "endings" and their way of becoming initiated has always exited, why didn't the Starchild just choose Synthesis in the very beginning? If that space magic has always been present, couldn't the Reapers have saved themselves a lot of time by doing that in the first place, thus eliminating the necessity to harvest every 50,000 years? Also, I find the "Destroy" node very silly, like when you see bad guys in cartoons who have a blatant self-destruct button on their secret hideout.

All very fishy.

The Indoctrination Theory to me is not a Reaper construct drawing Shepard into their turf. It is the Reaper invasion of Shepard's mind. So the option is still there because it is Shepard's mind. The Reapers can only try to convince him he's wrong and present the option that The Illusive Man (indoctrinated) chose, because it is invading his mind. He is defending against their influence. Only sticking to his guns and choosing to destroy them would wake him back up/give him control again. I'm making a few part video about all of this.

youtube.com/user/GuideMeSilly

I agree with you. I should have clarified what I meant. I believe it must be in his mind because the scenario itself is too convenient to be otherwise.

[Golferguy758]

Guys. Have you thought about the fact that the final hours might not have leaked the whole ending? That document could have been a second to final draft. The lots of speculation would reference this point in time.

The final draft would come after that document after using that as a springboard. I.e. charge reaper. Go to endings. Let fans speculate what happened. trelease game worldwide. Release end game scenarios after people finish speculating.

something to think about

[Excl]

I don't know ... all the speculation of what the endings may or may not be, along with Bioware's silence ... makes me want to snort the line.

[AdmiralsJack]

Raze4573 wrote...

Shepard-Commander. Holding the line. The Indoctrination theory is the only thing keeping me up and running. And if it fails, already started writing my ME3 ending fan fic. If BioWare cant deliver, I'll just make my own choice, like we were supposed to do in the whole Mass Effect trilogy.
And about Kirrahe...

You all know the mission, and what is at stake.
I have come to trust BioWare with my endings -- but I have also heard murmurs of discontent. I share your concerns.
We are trained for roleplay; we would be legends, but the games are sealed. Glory in silence is not our way.
Think of our heroes; the Drew Karpyshyn, who defeated the unreading with a single book. Or the Jack Wall, who kept sounds at bay with hidden tunes.
These giants do not seem to give us solace here, but they are not all that we are.
Before the ending, there were the fans. Before forum wars, there were players!
Our influence stopped the noobs, but before that we held the line!
Our influence stopped the fools, but before that, we held the line!
Our influence will stop lame endings; in the battle today, we will hold the line!

epic, i fell from my chair because i laughed so hard....

I will hold the line with you Legion

[VvAndromedavV]

Excl wrote...

I don't know ... all the speculation of what the endings may or may not be, along with Bioware's silence ... makes me want to snort the line.

+1 internets to you, sir. Well played.

[Ona Demonie]

I don't understand how adding Shepard's essence into the Crucible would be needed to create synthesis. What's so special about Shep's body? (I know the theory is that choosing Control and Synthesis means he's indoctrinated).

[Ghrelt]

Raze4573 wrote...

Shepard-Commander. Holding the line. The Indoctrination theory is the only thing keeping me up and running. And if it fails, already started writing my ME3 ending fan fic. If BioWare cant deliver, I'll just make my own choice, like we were supposed to do in the whole Mass Effect trilogy.
And about Kirrahe...

You all know the mission, and what is at stake.
I have come to trust BioWare with my endings -- but I have also heard murmurs of discontent. I share your concerns.
We are trained for roleplay; we would be legends, but the games are sealed. Glory in silence is not our way.
Think of our heroes; the Drew Karpyshyn, who defeated the unreading with a single book. Or the Jack Wall, who kept sounds at bay with hidden tunes.
These giants do not seem to give us solace here, but they are not all that we are.
Before the ending, there were the fans. Before forum wars, there were players!
Our influence stopped the noobs, but before that we held the line!
Our influence stopped the fools, but before that, we held the line!
Our influence will stop lame endings; in the battle today, we will hold the line!

This.  Is.  Awesome.

Holding the line.

[LadyVakarian]

@VvAndromedavV, Love the signature btw! I would add it as mine but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't fit 

[Ghrelt]

Ona Demonie wrote...

I don't understand how adding Shepard's essence into the Crucible would be needed to create synthesis. What's so special about Shep's body? (I know the theory is that choosing Control and Synthesis means he's indoctrinated).

Perhaps Shepard is just choosing synthesis for himself?  ie: becoming part of a reaper.  If one as strong-willed as Shepard could be turned towards the Reapers way of thinking, he could make a very powerful reaper, himself

[benben84]

Excl wrote...

I don't know ... all the speculation of what the endings may or may not be, along with Bioware's silence ... makes me want to snort the line.

LOL, I thought about saying something along that train of thought but now that you said...  Maybe that is what Shepard did before the final push...

[noobcannon]

MordiMoro wrote...

Have you noticed that on the Citadel, there is a picture of the StarChild and the written "last seen of earth?"

http://gametrailers....03-Untitled.png

Modifié par noobcannon, 16 mars 2012 - 08:39 .

[kyban]

I want this thread to remain on page 1. It's the only thing that makes sense.... I have no problem with the end, Up until the part where your crew is running and they get marooned. It makes NO sense.... People that like the endings don't understand that.

[Raze4573]

1. The child has parents that are looking for him (...or it @_@)
2. Shepard is on a guilt trip already, even without Reapers probing his grey matter.
A soldier like him...I'd let him slide with a few guilt induced hallucinations.

[VvAndromedavV]

benben84 wrote...

Excl wrote...

I don't know ... all the speculation of what the endings may or may not be, along with Bioware's silence ... makes me want to snort the line.

LOL, I thought about saying something along that train of thought but now that you said...  Maybe that is what Shepard did before the final push...

Yeah, they should have kapt the scene showing Shepard doing Red Sand right before she runs at the beam. Everything makes more sense that way.

[IronSabbath88]

I still don't even buy that the picture is real.

"Last seen on Earth?"

What kind of message is that?! If someone wanted to find him, wouldn't they be more specific? LAST SEEN ON EARTH? Yeah.. that's a lot of Earth to look for this kid on.. lol

[Red Starblazer]

I sense a great many memes and t-shirts will be made by hot topic and gaming merch websites from this thread alone.

Marauder Shields and Holding the Line will be the two I will buy.

T-shirt design one: (FRONT) Indoctrinated by Bioware, (BACK) Holding the Line!

On that note...Red Starblazer reporting in. STATUS: HOLDING THE LINE!

[Ghrelt]

Red Starblazer wrote...

I sense a great many memes and t-shirts will be made by hot topic and gaming merch websites from this thread alone.

Marauder Shields and Holding the Line will be the two I will buy.

T-shirt design one: (FRONT) Indoctrinated by Bioware, (BACK) Holding the Line!

On that note...Red Starblazer reporting in. STATUS: HOLDING THE LINE!

"I survived the Indoctrination Check of 2012"

[AdmiralsJack]

Red Starblazer wrote...

I sense a great many memes and t-shirts will be made by hot topic and gaming merch websites from this thread alone.

Marauder Shields and Holding the Line will be the two I will buy.

T-shirt design one: (FRONT) Indoctrinated by Bioware, (BACK) Holding the Line!

On that note...Red Starblazer reporting in. STATUS: HOLDING THE LINE!

i would buy them too

never stop holding the line!

[Raze4573]

My current Mass Effect fashion is an m65 grey jacket with the N7 patch, epic to wear.
But if I would find a "Hold the line!" t-shirt within reach...
media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqqzgj1w8l1qcclmk.jpg

Modifié par Raze4573, 16 mars 2012 - 08:49 .