57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Jenaimarre]

How does the Stargazer clip fall in line with the theories presented here?

[Phydeaux314]

Hmm. If Bioware is trolling the PLAYER with indoctrination, I would laugh my ass off SO HARD. That would be the best "player screw" ever encountered, and well on par with Bioware's amazing writing so far in the series.

[oh_saki]

omgBAMF wrote...

My take on the "crash landing" is that its what Shep would want for his friends/LI.  There are a couple of lines (Garrus:"Retire to a tropical planet"; Liara:"Wouldn't it be easy to find a planet somewhere to live in peace") that could foreshadow this thought.

True, but Mordin talks about retiring to a beach and studying sea shells but I didn't see a beach. 

I was only half serious with that last statement.

I'm still inclined to the whole "Shep was knocked out by the Reaper laser and everything following was a dream/Sheo fighting off indoc" theory. 

[Turtlicious]

Does someone have a video they can link from the beginning of the laser beam scene to the God Child? I want to look this over more.

[Ellestor]

mentosman8 wrote...

In terms of going into the light, an organic/synthetic combination is both what the Reapers themselves are, and pretty in line with Saren in ME1. He didn't believe that they could be controlled, simply that they could co-exist as the highest form of evolution being hybridized(as he was at that point) unless I'm remembering wrong. If that's the case, Control=TIM, synthesize=Saren, Destroy=not-indoctrinated/too strong of a will

It seems to me that Destroy would be the culmination of Shepard's indoctrination, not its defeat. It's the option that most fully accomplishes the Reapers' goal, and the one that he's allowed to wake up from.

I think Shepard's determination to defeat the Reapers is plainly what his indoctrination would have to exploit, in the same way that it exploited Saren and TIM's best intentions.

Modifié par Ellestor, 11 mars 2012 - 09:28 .

[Syversover]

I it was a hallucination, I bet it will cost a ****load for the "real ending DLC"

[Khar-Goth]

mentosman8 wrote...

In terms of going into the light, an organic/synthetic combination is both what the Reapers themselves are, and pretty in line with Saren in ME1. He didn't believe that they could be controlled, simply that they could co-exist as the highest form of evolution being hybridized(as he was at that point) unless I'm remembering wrong. If that's the case, Control=TIM, synthesize=Saren, Destroy=not-indoctrinated/too strong of a will

Yeah, that's basically what I thought when I got to that point too.

To me the choices seemed to be TIM's answer, Saren's answer, or blow them the hell up which I am immediately told is a very bad answer by Mini Space God the first time it was brought up and then the conversation was steered away from it.

The other thing that makes it seem like a dream to me is how 'magical' all three choices seem to be despite them trying hard to make the series feel sci-fi up unti that point.

Green ball of light that re-writes everyone's DNA,  including robots like EDI and the Geth who are made of metal and don't have any DNA to start with? 

Or a red ball of light that will kill the Reapers (who are mixed of organic and synthetic parts) but also will kill EDI (who is entirely a robot) and the Geth (again, robots) and also apparently Shepard himself (or, presumably, anyone else like him who has prosthetics) and he is supposed to believe that it would stop at just the synthetics and not sterilize the galaxy of organics too?

After having his conciousness uploaded into a Geth server earlier the Control choice is the only one that even starts to sound plausible, uploading Shepards conciousness to every Reaper and taking control of them, except just moments before you were arguing with TIM (and possibly shooting them or getting them to shoot themselves) for wanting to do just that.

Something seriously has to be wrong in Shepard's head to not have him just look at Mini Space God and say, "Uh... None of the above, and if the next choice involves beachfront property in the middle of Kansas I'll turn that one down too."

Really really hoping that the ending is all just a hallucination, as the other option being "Shepard has lost too much blood, has suffered brain damage from it, and is willing now to believe anything a holographic kid tells him regardless of how outlandish it sounds." is just too painful.

Modifié par Khar-Goth, 11 mars 2012 - 09:32 .

[Lugaidster]

Dr_Hello wrote...

byne wrote...

Is it just me, or does the entire ending sequence not feel like it fits in with the overall theme of the ME universe? It just feels.... off. I cant really describe it.

It seems otherworldly and kind of unfocused.

And when you talk to TIM, you get those weird black things at the edges of the screen.

I am of the opinion that once reaching the Citadel, severely wounded, and losing blood, Shepard hallucinated most of the ending sequence.

It would explain why the kid was there.

The weird blackness when TIM tried to control you and you tried to fight it could be Shepard fighting against blood loss and trying not to pass out (hence the darkening around the edges of the screen)

It explains how even the crew who were wounded with you near the portal in London ended up on the Normandy, and even why the Normandy was leaving Earth in the first place, its because Shepard isnt thinking clearly, and these are just the images dreamed up by a deteriorating brain.

Also, there is a likelyhood that having spent so much time around Reapers, Shepard is slightly indoctrinated. The Synthesis ending really doesnt make much sense, other than the fact that the little kid seems to think it is the best option. We never get an explanation on how jumping into a beam of energy that kills us will do anything like what it is said it will do.

The Reapers used Shepard's slight indoctrination and confused state as part of a last ditch effort to get Shepard to take himself out of the picture, since they knew that if they didnt do so, Shepard was about to win.

tl;dr blood loss leads to reaper victory

Hallucination makes the most sense, in my humble opinion.

Maybe Bioware will release a DLC where it turns out the horrible endings were all just a hallucination that you experienced after you got knocked unconscious by Harbinger while heading towards the portal thingy, and then you can go on to have endings that actually make sense.

Edit: fixed my weird formatting

I don't think it's a hallucination.

The endings do work within the themes of ME, about the notion of sacrifice and self-perservation...
but IMHO, the way it's either written or executed to screen fails,
here's my explanation as to why: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9768157/1#9768157

I'm not seeing how your post disproves this theory.

To me the strongest evidence that the kid represents indoctrination is at the beginning when you hear the growl after snapping out because of Anderson. The kid's trying to make Shepard believe that there's no hope.

-"You can't help me"
-The kid dies
-Only Shepard sees him
-The nightmares
-The burning scene in the dream
-The catalyst takes his form

There's a pattern established, and it doesn't feel forced, especially because of the Growl.

[oh_saki]

Jenaimarre wrote...

How does the Stargazer clip fall in line with the theories presented here?

You mean when the old man and his presumably grandson are talking at the end?

From what I understand, theory says that that still happens, and when the grandfather says 'one more story of Shep', that 'one more story' is what happens to Shepard after waking up from the hallucination/getting hit with the Reaper beam.

[Turtlicious]

Jenaimarre wrote...

How does the Stargazer clip fall in line with the theories presented here?

1.) It's 200 hundred years in the future

2.) Grandpa would NOT be telling his kid the story of how the universe got blown to ****.

3.) May also be a dream, in which Shepard believes that he has become a hero, and get's the only reward he has ever wanted, a kudos. Much like what he got from Anderson.

[lookingglassmind]

@Phydeaux:

Wouldn't that sh*t be EPIC? Albeit highly unlikely due to profit concerns?

[Yuzna75]

If this turns out to be indoctrination I wish they would have handled it like in one of the old hitman games, can't remember which one right now. 47 dies and at his funeral the credits begin to roll, then a heartbeat appears, followed by another and 47 comes out of the coffin and does his stuff. If they had done this with ME 3 I would have loved it. Let the credits roll, make people wonder what just happened and then the you're back in the real world and can move on. The whole DLC, if there is one, just makes the whole situation iffy at best, and even if they pull it off still makes me a bit upset that I had to wait for no apparent reason.

[Fat Headed Wolf]

Okay, I gotta sleep, but I pray this is right. I think the evidence is there, but I can't tell if I'm simply the king of wishful thinking. I look forward to checking this out tomorrow and over the next few days.

[Auresta]

Ellestor wrote...

mentosman8 wrote...

In terms of going into the light, an organic/synthetic combination is both what the Reapers themselves are, and pretty in line with Saren in ME1. He didn't believe that they could be controlled, simply that they could co-exist as the highest form of evolution being hybridized(as he was at that point) unless I'm remembering wrong. If that's the case, Control=TIM, synthesize=Saren, Destroy=not-indoctrinated/too strong of a will

It seems to me that Destroy is the culmination of Shepard's indoctrination, not its defeat. It's the option that most fully accomplishes the Reapers' goal, and the one that he's allowed to wake up from.

Shepard's determination to defeat the Reapers is plainly what his indoctrination would have to exploit, in the same way that it exploited Saren and TIM's best intentions.

Could be argued both ways. Reapers could also be playing into Shepard's physical weakness and tiredness, such as when the star-brat says that Synthesis is the only way to achieve peace: ultimately what Shepard wants anyway and Shepard's rest has been long overdue.

[Terraforming2154]

Turtlicious wrote...

Jenaimarre wrote...

How does the Stargazer clip fall in line with the theories presented here?

1.) It's 200 hundred years in the future

2.) Grandpa would NOT be telling his kid the story of how the universe got blown to ****.

3.) May also be a dream, in which Shepard believes that he has become a hero, and get's the only reward he has ever wanted, a kudos. Much like what he got from Anderson.

Hmm, interesting thought. That actually makes me (even) more sad for Shepard, and in a way makes Anderson's "you did good, child," more poignant for me.

[GovernorTarkin]

Phydeaux314 wrote...

Hmm. If Bioware is trolling the PLAYER with indoctrination, I would laugh my ass off SO HARD. That would be the best "player screw" ever encountered, and well on par with Bioware's amazing writing so far in the series.

If this ending is bioware messing with us then the dlc to fix the ending better be free.  I think it was rushed due to ea's involvement, i about cried when i heard ea bought bioware in 07(i think).

[oh_saki]

Turtlicious wrote...

Jenaimarre wrote...

How does the Stargazer clip fall in line with the theories presented here?

1.) It's 200 hundred years in the future

2.) Grandpa would NOT be telling his kid the story of how the universe got blown to ****.

3.) May also be a dream, in which Shepard believes that he has become a hero, and get's the only reward he has ever wanted, a kudos. Much like what he got from Anderson.

I don't like your 1st point. That would presume that everything that happened was real and the Relays really did get destroyed, because the kid at the end asks what he would find if he could travel the stars, so space travel is implied non-existent. Further, as it was brought up earlier, the destruction of the relays lead to the destruction of the solar systems. Plausible that the destruction of the relays didn't blow up solar systems due to some kind of space magic, but I think it's a stretch.

I like to think that maybe it's just some random grandfather, could be in the present, telling his grandson this great story about a Commander Shepard and just tells him that it's a 'real' story to make it more interesting or something. Then when the kid asks for 'one more' story of Shep, the one more is what happens to him after he wakes up from getting hit by the beam. 

Modifié par oh_saki, 11 mars 2012 - 09:34 .

[Lugaidster]

GovernorTarkin wrote...

Phydeaux314 wrote...

Hmm. If Bioware is trolling the PLAYER with indoctrination, I would laugh my ass off SO HARD. That would be the best "player screw" ever encountered, and well on par with Bioware's amazing writing so far in the series.

If this ending is bioware messing with us then the dlc to fix the ending better be free.  I think it was rushed due to ea's involvement, i about cried when i heard ea bought bioware in 07(i think).

I wasn't so sad because it meant that we would get ME for PC.

[Terraforming2154]

Ellestor wrote...

mentosman8 wrote...

In terms of going into the light, an organic/synthetic combination is both what the Reapers themselves are, and pretty in line with Saren in ME1. He didn't believe that they could be controlled, simply that they could co-exist as the highest form of evolution being hybridized(as he was at that point) unless I'm remembering wrong. If that's the case, Control=TIM, synthesize=Saren, Destroy=not-indoctrinated/too strong of a will

It seems to me that Destroy would be the culmination of Shepard's indoctrination, not its defeat. It's the option that most fully accomplishes the Reapers' goal, and the one that he's allowed to wake up from.

I think Shepard's determination to defeat the Reapers is plainly what his indoctrination would have to exploit, in the same way that it exploited Saren and TIM's best intentions.

But the reapers are destroyed in that ending, so it only accomplishes their goal for the current cycle (if the synthetics are destroyed). I would believe civilizations could rebuild synthetics again, and with this ending, the reapers wouldn't be able to keep up their 50,000 year extinction cycles to stop it anymore. It might be a short-term victory for them, but also a defeat.

Of course, I could be completely misunderstanding just what destruction entailed.

[Wattoes]

Its one thing to do the indoctrination or dreaming. I would be fine with that...

***IF*** the game doesn't just end right there. My impression of the game and series is forever destroyed at the moment. Saying "haha, we were kidding" months after doesn't fix that. Thats almost worse.

[BlackDragonBane]

Ellestor wrote...

mentosman8 wrote...

In terms of going into the light, an organic/synthetic combination is both what the Reapers themselves are, and pretty in line with Saren in ME1. He didn't believe that they could be controlled, simply that they could co-exist as the highest form of evolution being hybridized(as he was at that point) unless I'm remembering wrong. If that's the case, Control=TIM, synthesize=Saren, Destroy=not-indoctrinated/too strong of a will

It seems to me that Destroy is the culmination of Shepard's indoctrination, not its defeat. It's the option that most fully accomplishes the Reapers' goal, and the one that he's allowed to wake up from.

Shepard's determination to defeat the Reapers is plainly what his indoctrination would have to exploit, in the same way that it exploited Saren and TIM's best intentions.

Not neccessarrily. If we look at Saren's indoctrination, it started out as him thinking he was doing the right thing by working along side Sovreign, proving that he was useful enough not to be fully indoctrinated and he could eventually convince others that submission to the Reapers was the only way to prevent from being obliterated and harvested. However, Sovereign used Saren's sense of honor and twisted it until Saren didn't even realize what he was doing was the complete opposite until the end (provided you got the final Paragon/Renegade option that allowed Saren to redeem himself). Saren became indoctrinated believing he was doing what his honor dictated

The middle choice is the most appealing to anyone honor-bound charactere because it's the promise of peace between sythetics and organics, a lie created and used by the Reapers before and Harbinger is now trying to use it against Shepard. Destruction is the last thing the Reapers want and they've shown they have a sense of self preservation, considering they used the Collectors to attempt stealing Shepard's body and made a bee-line for Earth before attacking other planets. Shepard has been the first to openly defy and destroy several Reapers and Reaper assets, plus unite an entire galaxy and completely ruin the Reapers chance of taking the galaxy by surprise as they always have.

Harbinger is playing Shepard's sense of honor, or power hunger (for Control) and makes the Destruction optioin sound less appealing by adding the condition that the Geth would also be terminated. For those of us that brokered peace with the Quarian and the Geth, this was a difficult decision to make, plus it would also mean the destruction of EDI as well. The middle and control options seem like the 'safe' options when it really is exactly what Harbinger wants Shepard to do, to give in to the Reaper's design.

[lookingglassmind]

@GovenorTarkin:

I don't think of it as BioWare 'messing' with us. If the player indoctrination theory is true, then it more makes sense to think of it as BioWare offering us the truest, most ballsy immersion experience to date. Truly making the player and Shepard one, through the shared experience of indoctrination.

[ShdwFox7]

Maybe the whole mirrored 1M1 thing a few posts back is a hint for the release date of the DLC. Like, 1 month (the m), 1 day? That might ironically mean an early April fools....

*update: My bad, getting ahead of myself. Should have kept on reading lolz. While I would prefer march 15th, I still find my idea a rather ironic hint if that was intentional.

Modifié par ShdwFox7, 11 mars 2012 - 09:46 .

[littleork]

Alright folks, keep the ideas coming and keep the faith, i still havent got me to start my 2nd playthrough even if i have hope, i will wait til the 1 M 1 date and see if that crazy theory is true .Yall have a good night.

Modifié par littleork, 11 mars 2012 - 09:37 .

[Stalker]

[quote]Phydeaux314 wrote...
Hmm. If Bioware is trolling the PLAYER with indoctrination, I would laugh my ass off SO HARD. That would be the best "player screw" ever encountered, and well on par with Bioware's amazing writing so far in the series.[/quote]
[/quote]Agreed.
They have the chance for a place in game-development history.
Either extremely positive with that overwhelming player-indoctrination idea,
or extremely negative for delivering the worst ending ever.

Modifié par Mr Massakka, 11 mars 2012 - 09:39 .