57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Raze4573]

I am listening to the Suicide Mission music compilation on youtube.
No boss fight has been so epic as the Human Reaper fight.
So I ask...WTF BioWare!? Wheres my epic boss battle!?

Modifié par Raze4573, 17 mars 2012 - 08:04 .

[Nette]

FrostByte-GER wrote...

Nette wrote...

ba0987 wrote...

just read this?

http://social.biowar.../index/10089946

What you think people he sounds pretty sure the endings were good enough

It's bs, damage controll. Read this: http://social.biowar...10084349-1.html

uhhm please tell me what this means xD. Its to big for me to read^^

****, need assistance ASAP. Bremen is falling soon if we doesn't get help! My 4th and 12th divison were reamed. Need[static] heavy artillery...or[contact lost...]

We are still holding the line!!!

Well basically this guy, atghunter, used to work for a PR damage control team and he's giving us some insight into the tactics Bioware/EA might/will/are using in response to the anger over the endings. He's among other things gives us a analysis of Casey Hudsons post and what we should expect in the future from BW/EA. You should read it (all of you), it's very interesting.

[Pathero]

Raze4573 wrote...

And for doing that I present to you the title of being an Honorary Geth, here is your flashlight head lamp.

Careful, some of our guys aren't used to seeing Geth.  You might get one of your little lights shot off.

[Novouto]

Raze4573 wrote...

ME2 will always be my favorite, no offense to the music composers for ME3 but the score in ME2...just WOW. It was so...action packed, motivating. I just needed to listen to the tracks one time each to fall in love with them.
With ME3 music i was laying on my couch for few hours and my girlfriend took my headphones and asked "Why are you still listening to it?"
I said "I'm still thinking if its good, crappy or magnificent." And honestly...still am.

*gasp* Double post, thought someone would reply by now. 

Same here, ME2 music was orgasmic in epicness.

[GunMoth]

Nette wrote...

FrostByte-GER wrote...

Nette wrote...

ba0987 wrote...

just read this?

http://social.biowar.../index/10089946

What you think people he sounds pretty sure the endings were good enough

It's bs, damage controll. Read this: http://social.biowar...10084349-1.html

uhhm please tell me what this means xD. Its to big for me to read^^

****, need assistance ASAP. Bremen is falling soon if we doesn't get help! My 4th and 12th divison were reamed. Need[static] heavy artillery...or[contact lost...]

We are still holding the line!!!

Well basically this guy, atghunter, used to work for a PR damage control team and he's giving us some insight into the tactics Bioware/EA might/will/are using in response to the anger over the endings. He's among other things gives us a analysis of Casey Hudsons post and what we should expect in the future from BW/EA. You should read it (all of you), it's very interesting.

Its a great thread. :U Been posted here a lot, but definitely worth taking the time and thinking about. 

What a lot of PR teams will do is say "we're listening to what you have to say!" + "we want your feedback!" over and over again until the fans become exhausted from complaining / voicing their opinions. 

A lot of discussion about Casey Hudson's post and it being slightly passive aggressive. 

[Sefriol]

I played the ending few times through (Unfortunately you cannot fast skip the dialog) and it got me more sure that this theory can't be right. Almost every aspect of the ending (before the ending cinematic) can be explained.

Not saying that the ending is perfect or that I like it, but I don't see place for this theory in the game. Please don't hate me, it's just my opinion. (Though why am I wasting my time to proving others why I think that their opinions are wrong.... How stupid of me. But maybe I should deep analyse that OP when I have more spare time. : DDD)

[Raze4573]

Lets face it, ME3 sold in how many copies by now? Just because people dont write their opinion here, they might be as pissed off as we are.
BioWare will do things to appease us, deceive us, everything not to give us the so demanded REAL ending.
Free TOR for the weekend? A multiplayer event on ME3? No thank you BioWare, I will hold the line.

[lex0r11]

something just occurred to me watching those ending videos again. in destroy, at some point they focus the view on the kid and show how he vanishes while shep continues to fire. in the other endings he just stands behind shep and keeps watching, right?

youtu.be/6AdWqlsQjWo
fishy.

Modifié par lex0r11, 17 mars 2012 - 08:11 .

[byne]

Sefriol wrote...

I played the ending few times through (Unfortunately you cannot fast skip the dialog) and it got me more sure that this theory can't be right. Almost every aspect of the ending (before the ending cinematic) can be explained.

Not saying that the ending is perfect or that I like it, but I don't see place for this theory in the game. Please don't hate me, it's just my opinion. (Though why am I wasting my time to proving others why I think that their opinions are wrong.... How stupid of me. But maybe I should deep analyse that OP when I have more spare time. : DDD)

Having just replayed the ending myself, and having TIM basically quote Saren in his final speech, then kill himself in the exact same way, and seeing how lots of the areas we are in basically look just like places we've been before, I have to disagree. Made me more sure of Indoctrination.

[KujaTheDarkOne2]

Sefriol wrote...

I played the ending few times through (Unfortunately you cannot fast skip the dialog) and it got me more sure that this theory can't be right. Almost every aspect of the ending (before the ending cinematic) can be explained.

Not saying that the ending is perfect or that I like it, but I don't see place for this theory in the game. Please don't hate me, it's just my opinion. (Though why am I wasting my time to proving others why I think that their opinions are wrong.... How stupid of me. But maybe I should deep analyse that OP when I have more spare time. : DDD)

In all seriousness, can you explain the ending stuff, then? You say it can all (save the ending cinematic, which I say is a pretty huge thing to not be able to explain) be explained, so seriously, please do. I would love to be able to make any sense of it if I had to take it literally.

[Erethrian]

Raze4573 wrote...

Lets face it, ME3 sold in how many copies by now? Just because people dont write their opinion here, they might be as pissed off as we are.
BioWare will do things to appease us, deceive us, everything not to give us the so demanded REAL ending.
Free TOR for the weekend? A multiplayer event on ME3? No thank you BioWare, I will hold the line.

Indeed, the forums are just a 5-10% of game owners.

[lex0r11]

Sefriol wrote...

I played the ending few times through (Unfortunately you cannot fast skip the dialog) and it got me more sure that this theory can't be right. Almost every aspect of the ending (before the ending cinematic) can be explained.

Not saying that the ending is perfect or that I like it, but I don't see place for this theory in the game. Please don't hate me, it's just my opinion. (Though why am I wasting my time to proving others why I think that their opinions are wrong.... How stupid of me. But maybe I should deep analyse that OP when I have more spare time. : DDD)

dude, i will send you pictures of my girlfriend cosplaying in a asari stripper outfit if you can explain ME3's endings to me.

seriously, i will.

[Vandicus]

lex0r11 wrote...

something just occurred to me watching those ending videos again. in destroy, at some point they focus the view on the kid and show how he vanishes while shep continues to fire. in the other endings he just stands behind shep and keeps watching, right?

youtu.be/6AdWqlsQjWo
fishy.

That has been noticed before. Its also been said that the kid appears to smirk in the non-destroy endings, but I can't quite make out his face myself.

[UKHaz]

Any news from BioWare yet?

[Raze4573]

I think I know what idea I will give my gf next Halloween.
User-lex0r11. You have this platforms thanks.

[Jillers]

Just wanted to add:

Badassfully: Holding the line in NYC

[lex0r11]

Raze4573 wrote...

I think I know what idea I will give my gf next Halloween.
User-lex0r11. You have this platforms thanks.

you might want to wait if i will survive such.. 'inspirations' to her.

:/

[Raze4573]

Hold the line.
www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par Raze4573, 17 mars 2012 - 08:22 .

[Sefriol]

The Illusive Man was indoctrinated and that's why he's sharing a lot of the mindset of Saren's. Citadel is a place where we have been a countless of times that's why it looks a same. Reapers attacked it and maybe prepared it for making the reaper out of humans and other species. This a thing where Anderson refers also in game and might be a reason why they haven't seen this kind of place before.
Reapers gave TIM powers to control minds and bodies of Shepard and Anderson at some level. Same way they gave powers to Saren.
TIM tried to control the minds of those 2, but failed. TIM's job was to indoctrinate them (dark corners in conversations, Shepard's headaches and so on.) - he failed.
If Saren's and TIM's endings are similar - it proves nothing. It supports similarities of indoctrinate's side effects...
Do you want me to add more?

Modifié par Sefriol, 17 mars 2012 - 08:27 .

[AdmiralsJack]

Raze4573 wrote...

Hold the line.
www.youtube.com/watch

holding the line in Germany

[FalconRising]

Playing devil's advocate in the interest of promoting discussion. Apologies if this was covered somewhere in the preceding 659 pages.

-TIM appearing on the Citadel
I'll point out that before this point, you haven't seen TIM in person for a very long time, if you actually see him in person anywhere in the game (I fear I can't remember). He even left his own space station before you showed up. We know for a fact that he's indoctrinated from the Prothean VI's dialogue, and we've seen recorded footage of him receiving Reaper implants. It's not much of a stretch (given what we're already accepting) to imagine that he can manipulate the image of himself before it's sent out via quantum communications, and that he moved to the Citadel around the same time or maybe even before he warned the Reapers of Shepard's thrust against Earth.

-The secret cutscene of Shepard breathing
There's nothing wrong with this, but I'd like to point out that the Destruction path is the only choice where Shepard's body isn't disintegrated on camera, which makes it the only path that could logically contain said cutscene, whether you subscribe to Indoctrination Theory or not. In other words, if the events on the Citadel are indeed actually happening, that cutscene can only follow that choice, so I don't think Destruction can be inferred to be the right or happy ending on the basis of the existence of said cutscene. It can be argued that disintegration is symbolic of successful indoctrination, but I feel that source material that easily goes either way like this doesn't make for strong support.

There are screenshots/video of Shepard's eyes strongly resembling TIM's for an instant during the Control path. To me, if this means anything, it means that TIM was indoctrinated long before ME2, which is a whole new can of worms.

-The so-called "Ilos Run"
The radio chatter here is not significant either way. They clearly think everyone making the charge died, including you, and no one is alive or otherwise able to report that this assumption is inaccurate. I admit I have no idea why this Carnifex suddenly has infinite ammo, but I think this can reasonably be explained as BW trying to make this part feel super epic (like the end of COD4) but doing it in such a way that made people question the story instead. Adjusting HP such that each Husk dies in 1 shot and the Marauder die in 3 shots, and having you die if you miss, would have been a less obtrusive way to do it.

-Choosing Indoctrination
I hope I don't mind**** anyone, including myself. Here goes. I find it kind of hard to believe that if the events on the Citadel are Shepard's mind's interpretation of Indoctrination, then the path that equates to resisting indoctrination is the path you've been working towards all along. I'll elaborate; if indoctrination is the type of control you have to choose to accept, on whatever level, it makes more sense to disguise that acceptance as something the subject is known to be receptive to. Reaper files on Shepard must be extensive, they know s/he's working to destroy them. In other words, if all of that is a hallucination intended to indoctrinate Shepard, then to me Destruction seems the most likely to lead to indoctrination, as Shepard's mind has accepted the fantasy - after all, it came to Shepard disguised as the goal Shepard's been working towards all along. In fact, if this the case, then it's likely that choosing any of Destruction, Control or Synthesis within the confines of the hallucination leads to Shepard's indoctrination, and the only way out would be to shoot the god-child/AI, shoot yourself, or something else that reflects exertion of your will over that of Sovereign's. This is all, of course, assuming our understanding of indoctrination is accurate.

-Things I don't have answers for
How Anderson got to the panel before you.
How the Normandy is making a mass relay jump when it should be supporting Shepard on Earth.
How your squad suddenly got aboard the Normandy.
Why there are human letters/numbers in a part of the citadel no organic has ever been to before.
Why we, the players, are seeing cutscenes of things that might only apply to a hallucinated game world.

tl;dr
The source material contains reasonable explanations for TIM being on the Citadel, Shepard's breathing cutscene, and some parts of the "Ilos run". There are other loose threads, but without these three points I don't feel Indoctrination Theory holds water. I'm sure I didn't comprehensively answer all of the points raised by Indoctrination Theory. I hope this leads to a stronger discussion.

Thanks for reading.

Modifié par FalconRising, 17 mars 2012 - 08:30 .

[Raze4573]

It proves that Harbinger probed Shepards mind and made a mirror like situation from the first game where Shepard won and survived.
Harby did it so Shep would feel more at ease with what was happening and where.
That way Shep would be fully convinced that he did it and saved everyone.

[GunMoth]

lex0r11 wrote...

Sefriol wrote...

I played the ending few times through (Unfortunately you cannot fast skip the dialog) and it got me more sure that this theory can't be right. Almost every aspect of the ending (before the ending cinematic) can be explained.

Not saying that the ending is perfect or that I like it, but I don't see place for this theory in the game. Please don't hate me, it's just my opinion. (Though why am I wasting my time to proving others why I think that their opinions are wrong.... How stupid of me. But maybe I should deep analyse that OP when I have more spare time. : DDD)

dude, i will send you pictures of my girlfriend cosplaying in a asari stripper outfit if you can explain ME3's endings to me.

seriously, i will.

I'll explain them, but if I were your girlfriend I'd probably rethink our relationship hahaha. 
In greek tragedies a deus ex machina (or an actor lowered onto the stage) would explain the philosophy / moral of the story / ethical issues within the play. Its usually used to cause the audience to contemplate the "food for thought" provided by the play. While the characters can be extremely well writen / established, usually writers / directors who use a Deus Ex Machina don't really care about them. If that makes sense. What they care about is the message / atmosphere the audience "takes in" or rather: the moral of the story. 

When I was on my first playthrough the part of me that loves ambiguous / atmospheric driven storytelling was enthralled (I made this same post earlier, but Evangelion, Battlestar Galactica, Twilight Zone, and a lot of early sci fi films were like this). However, from a technical point of view, this is bad because the "genre" or type of storytelling isn't consistent with the past two games. Mass Effect was/is a military drama. Up until the last 10 minutes of the third installment there had been no heavy symbolism or vague elements. It left fans feeling "uneasy" or "depressed" after it was over. Not nessisarily because of the objective outcome - but because of the genre shift.  


EDIT: That isn't to say the actual OUTCOME isn't worth being upset about. But the "uneasy" feeling described by a lot of posters is caused by the lack of continuity. 

Modifié par GunMoth, 17 mars 2012 - 08:33 .

[KujaTheDarkOne2]

Sefriol wrote...

The Illusive Man was indoctrinated and that's why he's sharing a lot of the mindset of Saren's. Citadel is a place where we have been a countless of times that's why it looks a same. Reapers attacked it and maybe prepared it for making the reaper out of humans and other species. This a thing where Anderson refers also in game and might be a reason why they haven't seen this kind of place before.
Reapers gave TIM powers to control minds and bodies of Shepard and Anderson at some level. Same way they gave powers to Saren.
TIM tried to control the minds of those 2, but failed. TIM's job was to indoctrinate them (dark corners in conversations, Shepard's headaches and so on.) - he failed.
If Saren's and TIM's endings are similar - it proves nothing. It supports similarities of indoctrinate's side effects...
Do you want me to add more?

The Citadel doesn't look the same, though. Or rather, different parts of it look like different parts of other places.

You've really only tried to explain why the Citadel looks like it does (which you've failed at and phrased confusingly), and the scene with TIM, which honestly, is the part of the ending most of us have the least amount of problems with.

So yeah. Add more about the starchild, please. That's really where the ending completely goes bad.

[byne]

Sefriol wrote...

Reapers gave TIM powers to control minds and bodies of Shepard and Anderson at some level. Same way they gave powers to Saren.

Except they never gave any such powers to Saren.

Even Benezia mentions it was Saren's ship (Sovereign) that caused the indoctrination.