57139 réponses à ce sujet

[KujaTheDarkOne2]

njfluffy19 wrote...

KujaTheDarkOne2 wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

njfluffy19 wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch

Squadmate deaths, a deleted scene.

So, if the theory of indoctrination is correct, how does this fit in? According to the theory, you aren't dreaming till after the beam...

In any case...

No one ever said the companions didn't die. In fact part of indoctrination theory's basis is that dead companions from that charge teleport to the Normandy. 

I don't think them being on the Normandy is so confusing because they're definitely dead... They could have simply been injured by the beam, like Shepard. But then it would be really weird that Joker was able to fly in and pick them up so quick... especially given Harbinger was leaving the scene. Wouldn't Harbinger see the Normandy swooping down?

I'm sure the scene was deleted just to provide further ambiguity. They might be dead, they might not, but either way it doesn't make much sense for them to be on that ship so shortly after what was more or less a suicide run.

If future DLC showed that whoever you take with you at the end DOES die, though... Then I'll have to replay that mission without Liara and Garrus. I do not want them dead. :///

I know, I was telling my husband that if that happened, I'd just have restarted the mission with Vega and Javek (or Kaidan, depending). I still would've felt like crap.

Yeah, exactly. I'm not sure who I would've brought (Javik and someone), but it wouldn't be Liara and Garrus, my LI and best friend.

I would definitely feel like crap too, though. I really don't want to bring anybody, knowing that they would die. I don't hate Javik, afterall. Or whoever else I would bring. It would be a tough decision.

[manjikengo]

Any idea how to get better sleep? Haven't been able to sleep well since last friday morning and the ringing in my head is getting worse. not trying to be a smart-ass. I'm really losing sleep over this **** and the pit is getting worse.

[jackncoke28]

FalconRising wrote...

@gamiSB

In my opinion, for what you describe to be the case, the god-child needs to do a much better job of selling Control and Synthesis, and dissuading Shepard away from Destruction. I don't feel Shepard was very strongly tempted towards the options your scenario says the Reapers want Shepard to choose. But this is beside the point.

What is not beside the point, and what I'm still trying to say, is why, in this complete hallucination, if there is a way out, why is it disguised as something Shepard is known to want? Since we're assuming that the Reapers are constructing this hallucination entirely within Shepard's mind, the way out - if there is one - should be somewhere Shepard would never think to look, or through doing something Shepard would normally never consider. Likewise, if the whole point is to get Shepard's mind to submit to Indoctrination - symbolically represented by completing the fantasy through one of its three choices - it makes sense if the "Destruction" path leads directly to Indoctrination.

@lemondish
I thought Shepard's goal was the preservation of life as it was known to this galactic cycle, and when Shepard says "peace", "peace" really refers to permanent cessation of the Reaper attacks on the developed races of the galaxy, and the loss of trillions of lives that result. Potato, potato.

@blackmind1
That's not quite what's going on here; Shepard is weakened and exhausted but still free, the point of this hallucination and indoctrination is to get Shepard to willingly become a prisoner.

I think that's everyone.

I also think I made a mistake by referring to specific choices at hand when referring to the Starchild phase of Indoctrination Theory. A better way to phrase what I'm getting at, is that it doesn't matter what choice Shepard makes, as long as it is made within the constraints of the hallucination at hand. As long as Shepard accepts the hallucination and the choices the Reapers present, indoctrination is complete.

As far as destroy option, i dont see it as an option reapers are giving you, more so that it is an indication of Shepard still having part of his/her freewill

[FrozenDreamfall]

@sangy I'd choose destroy anytime,that is my goal and I don't care if my Shep dies with it,though apparently you can still "live".I do believe in this theory a lot.Check out the news section,they also posted some stuff on the ME comics,in one it's pretty clear TIM is indoctrinated,so my guess is they're doing the same to Shep.Also if they did change the endings why the hell would they take out the part where Anderson or your LI pulls you out from the ruble? They suddenly got low budgeted and thought oh,this is all the money we have left to finish it guys,lets sell the game expensively and rebuild the ending after? And if it is in the CD locked content I would love if someone could crack it like they did with Javik.

[Kanon777]

You know, after reading what Casey had to say about the conclusion, i dont think i can believe this anymore... There is a clear attempt to say there is nothing REALLY wierd about the endings, its just that we need "more time with our characters" and "more answers".

What he said sounds like he admits there are holes to the story but they will be answers, not that the entire thing was a hallucination...

But we also recognize that some of our most passionate fans needed more closure, more answers, and more time to say goodbye to their stories—and these comments are equally valid. Player feedback such as this has always been an essential ingredient in the development of the series.

So where do we go from here? Throughout the next year, we will support Mass Effect 3 by working on new content. And we’ll keep listening, because your insights and constructive feedback will help determine what that content should be. This is not the last you’ll hear of Commander Shepard.

Dosent looks like he knew there would be so much backlash and the new endings DLC is not something they planned to do until now.

[KappaOmicron]

FalconRising wrote...

@gamiSB

In my opinion, for what you describe to be the case, the god-child needs to do a much better job of selling Control and Synthesis, and dissuading Shepard away from Destruction. I don't feel Shepard was very strongly tempted towards the options your scenario says the Reapers want Shepard to choose. But this is beside the point.

I recall Shepard automatically saying "So the Illusive Man was right all along..." after the kid explains the control option. That kind of adds to him selling control if our Shepard automatically declares a statement as strong as that without our permission. That annoyed me a little, my Shepard would never declare TIM right.

[njfluffy19]

Ona Demonie wrote...

I don't have the scripts, but I just recall seeing that was one of the endings. Brenon Holmes (Senior Designer) told one BSN user (who posted his messages in the group I'm in) that there was a happy ending that both Casey Hudson and some other head guy really liked, but it was taken out. Brenon doesn't know why, since he's been kept out of the loop. Could have been taken out because Mac didn't want that (hint, the Final Hours notes he had) or to put it into a DLC (rumored).

[Ona Demonie]

sangy wrote...

@ Ona Demonie

Very Interesting.

Indeed. Honestly, from the Final Hour notes, it reveals what was going on in Mac's head. Why did he want speculation? Was it because Casey told him that he wanted people to talk about the endings? Was it because he knew what BioWare was planning with the endings? Or did he want to create endings where people would talk about it for years? 

Also, note the "Matrix" notes. There are quite a few elements in ME3 that allude to the Matrix. For example, the Red Pill or Blue Pill. In ME3, its "Red or Blue". Choosing Red wakes you up, while choosing blue keeps you dreaming of a better world. The Catalyst is also the old guy who tells you that the past chosen ones have been keeping the cycle. Neo chooses to break it and he lives another day. Same goes for Shepard with the Destroy endings. Whether its a nod to the Matrix or the fact that its reminding players to "hey, matrix reference. Clues in your face". 

[KujaTheDarkOne2]

VvAndromedavV wrote...

njfluffy19 wrote...

Yeah, I dunno. What would they put as a pop-up if they didn't put that and our theory was true? "WOOPS! You got indoctrinated! Wait till our new content is released to find out what happens next! Hahahah!"

I would have gone with "Commander Shepard has become a legend. Now you can continue to build that legend through further gameplay and downloadable content (DLC)."

See? 100% as legit, but without the bothersome "BY ENDING THE REAPER THREAT" line.

That would've been a better line, allowing for more of the precious ambiguity they seem to so crave, definitely.

But seriously, like byne said, it's just a message imploring you to download future DLC. It could very well be an error, and not even have been written by the main team, you know? If the Indoctrination theory were actually planned, the people planning it weren't necessarily writing that little message at the end.

[FrostByte-GER]

Ona Demonie wrote...

FrostByte-GER wrote...
Also...why would BioWare put you back to the TIM Base? There is nothing else
you can do . The Reapers have taken ALL systems... so you can't go
to other systems and do some DLC missions or anything else!!!

You can still go to other systems. It reloads a save to where you're back on the Normandy and you can view the Galaxy Map and go to any system. 

Sure?  loaded my save to make the from ashes dlc but i can't go to eden prime...I should check this...but now it's time to sleep. gn8 everyone

I'm still holding the line in my dreams

Modifié par FrostByte-GER, 18 mars 2012 - 12:28 .

[FrozenDreamfall]

@ Ona Demonie I really hope it will be a damn DLC,if not,they truly were mad to think this ending was a good idea...@njfluffy19 lol,funny.

[Ona Demonie]

FrostByte-GER wrote...

Ona Demonie wrote...

FrostByte-GER wrote...
Also...why would BioWare put you back to the TIM Base? There is nothing else
you can do . The Reapers have taken ALL systems... so you can't go
to other systems and do some DLC missions or anything else!!!

You can still go to other systems. It reloads a save to where you're back on the Normandy and you can view the Galaxy Map and go to any system. 

Sure?  loaded my save to make the from ashes dlc but i can't go to eden prime...I should check this...but now it's time to sleep. gn8 everyone

I'm still holding the line in my dreams

Weird. It may be because my last save was before launching the Cerberus base mission. 

[VvAndromedavV]

KujaTheDarkOne2 wrote...

That would've been a better line, allowing for more of the precious ambiguity they seem to so crave, definitely.

But seriously, like byne said, it's just a message imploring you to download future DLC. It could very well be an error, and not even have been written by the main team, you know? If the Indoctrination theory were actually planned, the people planning it weren't necessarily writing that little message at the end.

True, it could just be poorly-worded shameless marketing, it could be a descrepancy between the different sets of writers, etc.

But if they were going for ambiguity or indoctrination "Shepard has ended the Reaper threat" is not the last thing you want the player to see after the game is finished.

Just sayin'.

[njfluffy19]

The pop-up at the end just cheapens the experience IMO. I could have done without it. Just don't even let me load the game up, ffs.

[Ona Demonie]

FrozenDreamfall wrote...

@ Ona Demonie I really hope it will be a damn DLC,if not,they truly were mad to think this ending was a good idea...@njfluffy19 lol,funny.

At this point... they're in a corner.

There is a HUGE amount of people who are upset about the endings. People are cancelling their SWTOR accounts in protest. GameStops across the US are getting tons of ME3 copies back, effectively giving GS the money for any used copy bought. The newest numbers are around 2 million (sold) out of the 3.5 million shipped. Fans have been contacting the BBB and FTC regarding BioWare's service (false promises, etc). They are aware that fans are pissed, upset, and demanding better endings. The "Retake Mass Effect 3" fundraiser campaign has raised nearly 60k in 2-3 days (I've lost count). There are tons of polls regarding the endings. 

There is absolutely no way for them to ignore what's going on. 

It is corporate suicide if BioWare does not do anything. They HAVE to give players a FREE DLC that contains the new endings, whether they are brand new or small changes. BioWare is known for taking fan feedback and actually implementing it. That's how Garrus and Tali became love interests. That's how we got S/S love interests. 

Maybe that's why BioWare has set up several threads concerning the endings and other changes to the game.

[KujaTheDarkOne2]

VvAndromedavV wrote...

KujaTheDarkOne2 wrote...

That would've been a better line, allowing for more of the precious ambiguity they seem to so crave, definitely.

But seriously, like byne said, it's just a message imploring you to download future DLC. It could very well be an error, and not even have been written by the main team, you know? If the Indoctrination theory were actually planned, the people planning it weren't necessarily writing that little message at the end.

True, it could just be poorly-worded shameless marketing, it could be a descrepancy between the different sets of writers, etc.

But if they were going for ambiguity or indoctrination "Shepard has ended the Reaper threat" is not the last thing you want the player to see after the game is finished.

Just sayin'.

*nod* I totally agree with you. It's either correct (i.e. they did not plan Indoc theory) or it's a mistake, and either way it sucks and doesn't do much for that ambiguity they seem to so desire.

[ValnKmere]

Still holding the line!

[jackncoke28]

VvAndromedavV wrote...

KujaTheDarkOne2 wrote...

That would've been a better line, allowing for more of the precious ambiguity they seem to so crave, definitely.

But seriously, like byne said, it's just a message imploring you to download future DLC. It could very well be an error, and not even have been written by the main team, you know? If the Indoctrination theory were actually planned, the people planning it weren't necessarily writing that little message at the end.

True, it could just be poorly-worded shameless marketing, it could be a descrepancy between the different sets of writers, etc.

But if they were going for ambiguity or indoctrination "Shepard has ended the Reaper threat" is not the last thing you want the player to see after the game is finished.

Just sayin'.

doesnt specify what reaper threat, the could've ment indoctrination 

[njfluffy19]

jackncoke28 wrote...

VvAndromedavV wrote...

KujaTheDarkOne2 wrote...

That would've been a better line, allowing for more of the precious ambiguity they seem to so crave, definitely.

But seriously, like byne said, it's just a message imploring you to download future DLC. It could very well be an error, and not even have been written by the main team, you know? If the Indoctrination theory were actually planned, the people planning it weren't necessarily writing that little message at the end.

True, it could just be poorly-worded shameless marketing, it could be a descrepancy between the different sets of writers, etc.

But if they were going for ambiguity or indoctrination "Shepard has ended the Reaper threat" is not the last thing you want the player to see after the game is finished.

Just sayin'.

doesnt specify what reaper threat, the could've ment indoctrination 

Possible!

[KujaTheDarkOne2]

njfluffy19 wrote...

The pop-up at the end just cheapens the experience IMO. I could have done without it. Just don't even let me load the game up, ffs.

Yeah, it was stupid. It's like "Hey, don't forget that this massive experience you've just completed is a game, and that you can buy/download more of it eventually! :D"

It's like, hey. Shut up. You could've told me that at the title screen. Don't pop up right after the end, when I'm still in the process of, well, processing everything.

[VvAndromedavV]

jackncoke28 wrote...
doesnt specify what reaper threat, the could've ment indoctrination 

So...

Blue & green = indoctrinated Shepard = Commander Shepard has ended the Reaper threat ... by becoming indoctrinated?

I want to believe, but no.

[njfluffy19]

KujaTheDarkOne2 wrote...

njfluffy19 wrote...

The pop-up at the end just cheapens the experience IMO. I could have done without it. Just don't even let me load the game up, ffs.

Yeah, it was stupid. It's like "Hey, don't forget that this massive experience you've just completed is a game, and that you can buy/download more of it eventually! :D"

It's like, hey. Shut up. You could've told me that at the title screen. Don't pop up right after the end, when I'm still in the process of, well, processing everything.

I think I would have preferred "Trolololololo" to pop up.

Seriously though, I would have preferred ME1's approach where it just doesn't let you load up after a certain point. Instead it just brings you back in time immediately after the credits roll/Stargazer and you're just left dumbfounded. Sigh.

[Abdul_777]

I know a lot of people are saying that if we get the ending we want through this update/dlc (call it w/e you want) it doesnt matter if BW came up with this originally or not.

I just dont know anymore,if they actually thought this was the real ending to their (probably most precious,at least -to me- it feels like this game was the product of the "core team") game,there are seriously huge problems in that studio.I know theyre supposed to make profit,but why is it necessary to get so close to the line between screwing over your fans and actually respecting us and their artistic integrity enough to not sell a "chopped up game" (generally speaking of dlcs and bw games).

These last 10-15 minutes of the game feel SO disjointed from the rest,its like they said "okay,we've filled the discs with enough content to justify the 60 bucks,now lets wrap this up asap somehow".It's gonna turn out if the ending DLC was actually planned or not anyway,because from what Ive gotten from the general vibe of that part of the game,theres still like 1-3 hours of content/story to tell in the end with boss fights,epilogue and stuff and they didnt call back all the VAs for post-gameproduction DLCs.It probably wouldnt be cheap to hire all the actors again and frankly,knowing EA they would dare ask money for this dlc to cover the expenses.I really,really hope BW is not gonna sink lower under EA's influence.I know Activision is just as bad in terms of this,but theres one thing they should copy from them and its the freedom Blizzard has over their games,I dont really like Blizzard games (not really into RTS)but always admired the fact they could get away with releasing games when theyre ready and not having to give into the pressure from charming people like Kotick.

I cant help but think how awesome games could be made if BW was given enough trust and most importantly time from EA to finish what theyve started.I dont think everybody from the dev team is immune to all the negative critic and abusive comments they get for these "endings" just because theyre paid for their work.I just simply feel that ME3 couldve used a 5-6 months longer development,compared to ME1, I dunno it just feels rushed a bit (for me).

christ,in retrospect maybe I shouldnt have used the quick reply for this wall of text...
funny thing is I wanted to talk about a total different subject regarding the theory which i completely forgot by now,ah well,this post is gonna be flooded with the hold the line posts anyhow haha

(well,one thing is different though with blizzard games now that i think about it,they definately make more money not to mention theyre "built to last",ie being e-sports game...man its really hard in this regard then,single player games unfortunately get traded in n all i guess...ah well,not gonna delete that part,feel free to discuss or w/e,not like we can squeeze more out of this theory that could be a MAJOR addition to what we've already got,best if we just keep it on front page i guess)

[VvAndromedavV]

KujaTheDarkOne2 wrote...

njfluffy19 wrote...

The pop-up at the end just cheapens the experience IMO. I could have done without it. Just don't even let me load the game up, ffs.

Yeah, it was stupid. It's like "Hey, don't forget that this massive experience you've just completed is a game, and that you can buy/download more of it eventually! :D"

It's like, hey. Shut up. You could've told me that at the title screen. Don't pop up right after the end, when I'm still in the process of, well, processing everything.

Completely agree with both of you, the pop-up at the end was extremely tacky and cheap (regardless of its meaning).

I mean I was trying to absorb all this information, I was all emotional, and then bam, pop-up telling me to buy stuff.

Ugh.

[njfluffy19]

VvAndromedavV wrote...

jackncoke28 wrote...
doesnt specify what reaper threat, the could've ment indoctrination 

So...

Blue & green = indoctrinated Shepard = Commander Shepard has ended the Reaper threat ... by becoming indoctrinated?

I want to believe, but no.

It's possible you wake up regardless.