57139 réponses à ce sujet

[MrJu1c3]

I think you guys are really on to something here. I was wondering why the action to stop Kai Leng and break his sword was renegade, but I never connected it to this.

This is very intriguing.

[BlackDragonBane]

Wattoes wrote...

"Commander Shepard has become a legend by stopping the reaper threat. Now you can continue to build that legend through further gameplay and downloadable content"

Thats not a dream. Thats the game flat out telling you its not a dream.

Flavor text has no meaning. Just because it says Shepard became a legend doesn't disprove the theory that Shepard was fighitng indoctrination and hallucinated the entire encounter with Catalyst and the 3 choices. Something could have easily happened afterwards given things that crop up in the ending that have already been stated multiple times by different people in this thread.

[neofayyt25]

BlackDragonBane wrote...

Turtlicious wrote...

recap:

Thought on the ending:

1. The endgame scenario is Indoctrination/Manipulation from the Reapers (Harbinger) trying to force you into choosing to let the Reapers live. Shepard is not awake during the final sceens!

2. Choosing to control the Reapers allows them to live. Reapers win. They will still exist.

3. Choosing to combine organic and synthetic life: Reapers win. They will still exist.

4. Choosing to destroy all synthetic life: Reapers loose. Shepard lives. Reapers die.

5. Choosing to destroy all synthetic life option is more Renegade in appearence. Controlling the Reapers is more Paragon in appearence. The Illusive Man's choice should not be Paragon colors, just as Anderson's choice should not be Renegade.

6. Shepard awakes at the end of destroying Reapers. But Shepard is not awaking from the aftermath. He is awaking from either after he is hit by Harbingers lazer attack on Earth or after the scene with Anderson and the Illusive Man.

7. Stating that all sythetic life will be destroyed will give you pause; destroying the Geth can force you to a different conclusion. This choice exists for the illusion of choice; the other choices are ment to sound better.

8. Shepard does not awake in the other 2 "endings" because you are fully indoctrinated by the choices you made to allow the Reapers to win. "Assuming Control!"

9. Never trust any child construct, be it a ghost or artificial intelligence, or heck even human. They are just creepy.

10. Shepard awakes at the end because he has broken hold of the Reaper's control.

11. Shepard has spent alot of time around Reapers. Soveriegn, various Reaper artifacts, the Human Reaper, 2 Reaper destroyers, the Artifact from "The Arrival." Its foolish to assume there is not some level of indoctrination.

12. Bioware not only get more $$$ for DLC for the final battle, but big props for INDOCTRINATING A LOT OF ITS OWN PLAYERS! I do not know of another gaming company that has tried to fool all of its consumers, but they look to be the first and reap all of the attention.

13. Look at these screenshots. I believe the 1m1 is a clue, because of how often it shows up, and how human it is, when the ship is supposedly older then the ancients.

14. Definitions:


Catalyst =1. Chemistry A substance, usually
used in small amounts relative to the reactants, that modifies and
increases the rate of a reaction without being consumed in the process.2. One that precipitates a process or event, especially without being involved in or changed by the consequences[/color][color="#333333"]
Addition information compiled from community and written by:

Crucible=
1. A vessel made of a refractory substance
such as graphite or porcelain, used for melting and calcining materials
at high temperatures.2. A severe test, as of patience or belief; a trial. See Synonyms at trial.3. A place, time, or situation characterized by the confluence of powerful intellectual, social, economic, or political forces:


Kitten Tactics:

-The endgame scenario is Indoctrination/Manipulation from the Reapers
(Harbinger) trying to force you into choosing to let the Reapers live.
Shepard is not awake during the final scenes.

-Choosing Control - You can not control them, they control you. Shepard says as much to the Illusive Man moments earlier.

-Choosing
Synthesis - Allows everyone in the galaxy to be manipulated by Reaper
code, like they have done to the Geth multiple times now.

-Choosing Destroy - Breaks the hold the reapers have on Shepard's mind.

-Choosing
to destroy all synthetic life option is more Renegade in appearence.
Controlling the Reapers is more Paragon in appearence. The Illusive
Man's choice should not be Paragon colors, just as Anderson's choice
should not be Renegade. The reapers are saying that Destroy is the
worst, Control is worse, and Synthesis is the best. They want you to
fail.

-Stating that all sythetic life will be destroyed will
give you pause; destroying the Geth can force you to a different
conclusion. This choice exists for the illusion of choice; the other
choices are ment to sound better.

-Shepard wakes up after
Destroy, because the Reaper's hold is diminished. Shepard does not
awake in the other 2 "endings" because you are fully indoctrinated by
the choices you made to allow the Reapers to win. "Assuming Control!"

-The
child does not actually exist. He is an attempt to indoctrinate
Shepard. Nobody but Shepard ever sees or interacts with the child.

-When
Anderson calls for Shepard at the beginning of the game, when Shepard
is talking to the child, Shepard turns back and the child is gone.
Shepard has been "snapped out of it".

-When Shepard turns towards
Anderson after being "snapped out of it", a growl is heard. In the
third novel, when Greyson resisted the reapers they would make a
growling noise once they realized they didn't have him under complete
control.

-During Shepard's final dream with the child, chatter
can be heard over the radio about nobody making it to the beam. Shepard
is still in London.

-When Shepard catches the child in the final
dream, they are both engulfed in flame. Going with the child (the
reapers) means Shepard's destruction.

-Shepard has spent alot of
time around Reapers. Soveriegn, various Reaper artifacts, the Human
Reaper, 2 Reaper destroyers, the Artifact from "The Arrival." Its
foolish to assume there is not some level of indoctrination.

-When Shepard wakes up at the end of Destroy, he/she is waking up in London, after being hit with the laser.

Great recap

Completely agreed. Whatever is true or not, my mind is equally blown!

[lookingglassmind]

@BlackDragon:

This forum recognizes the child as existing in the very first scene that Shepard lays eyes on him: the playing scene on the grass. The general consensus is that the child either died or did not reappear - it is Harbinger/the Catalyst from then on.

[MissMaster_2]

Wattoes wrote...

"Commander Shepard has become a legend by stopping the reaper threat. Now you can continue to build that legend through further gameplay and downloadable content"

Thats not a dream. Thats the game flat out telling you its not a dream.

Well then how about you tell us how Shepard is breathing in space with out a helmet....

[Lugaidster]

BlackDragonBane wrote...

I think my only problem is with the child not existing. I believe the child WAS there at the beginning and after seeing him get killed by the Reaper and the fact that he told Shepard, rather bluntly 'you can't save me' really struck Shepard hard. Having to abandon Earth to save it later likely built up a lot of regret and it manifested as the child, something Harbinger could use to manipulate Shepard because of the meaning behind the memory.

Then the growl would make no sense in that particular situation at the beginning. 

BTW, we should recap all graphical evidence as well...

[Turtlicious]

I didn't write the first 12, or any of it really. I'm just making a list. I don't want too much credit lol.

[xGhost4000x]

The best thing about this thread....even if they weren't planning to make a better ending.

We have provided them with all the details needed to not only make one, but to claim they had planned to do so from the beginning.

Funny thing is, I don't even care. I just want more.

[TheGoddess0fWar]

Wattoes wrote...

"Commander Shepard has become a legend by stopping the reaper threat. Now you can continue to build that legend through further gameplay and downloadable content"

Thats not a dream. Thats the game flat out telling you its not a dream.

It's their way of asking you to hold onto your saves, and don't sell your game. Lol.

[DifferentD17]

Wattoes wrote...

"Commander Shepard has become a legend by stopping the reaper threat. Now you can continue to build that legend through further gameplay and downloadable content"

Thats not a dream. Thats the game flat out telling you its not a dream.

Still could be they could say you can build your own ending, this is the one we wanted

[Turtlicious]

http://oi41.tinypic.com/2nvgso4.jpg

http://i1269.photobu...23/dreamM1M.jpg

That's what we have so far, (someone make those into pictures please.)

[Goddy10]

This is Bioshock "Would you Kindly..." level mind**** **** right here. This HAS to be intentional. The pieces all fit.

[BlackDragonBane]

Lugaidster wrote...

BlackDragonBane wrote...

I think my only problem is with the child not existing. I believe the child WAS there at the beginning and after seeing him get killed by the Reaper and the fact that he told Shepard, rather bluntly 'you can't save me' really struck Shepard hard. Having to abandon Earth to save it later likely built up a lot of regret and it manifested as the child, something Harbinger could use to manipulate Shepard because of the meaning behind the memory.

Then the growl would make no sense in that particular situation at the beginning. 

BTW, we should recap all graphical evidence as well...

What growl? If you're referring to that loud sound that happens during the scene, I think it was part of the soundtrack and not the Reaper itself.

[Turtlicious]

oh and if someone has a youtube video from the hill run (which is reminiscent of Ilos and the relay that shot you to the citadel) up to the Kid, that would be nice.

[draken-heart]

MissMaster_2 wrote...

Wattoes wrote...

"Commander Shepard has become a legend by stopping the reaper threat. Now you can continue to build that legend through further gameplay and downloadable content"

Thats not a dream. Thats the game flat out telling you its not a dream.

Well then how about you tell us how Shepard is breathing in space with out a helmet....

unless, Shepard really is a Reaper<_<

[Miss Vader]

Vid i found of shep running to citadel- up to dealing with TIM:

[DifferentD17]

www.youtube.com/watch

3:11 in and two interrupts happen both renegade, both don't seem to be completely renegade. I can see a paragon interrupting the VI to tell it to stop trying to doubt us.

[neofayyt25]

Can someone explain the significance of the "1M1"? I am completely lost on that part.

[MrJu1c3]

Turtlicious wrote...

http://oi41.tinypic.com/2nvgso4.jpg

http://i1269.photobu...23/dreamM1M.jpg

That's what we have so far, (someone make those into pictures please.)

That should do it.

[lookingglassmind]

Turtlicious,

Can you add the Player Indoctrination Theory to your list? Your very first point pretty much explains it -- labelling it as a specific theory may be helpful to newcomers.

[Turtlicious]

So why is the reaper firing so quickly, the reaper on Ranoch fired MUCH slower, so did the one on earth.

[Sl4sh3r]

DifferentD17 wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch

3:11 in and two interrupts happen both renegade, both don't seem to be completely renegade. I can see a paragon interrupting the VI to tell it to stop trying to doubt us.

The first interrupt is meh.. (Meaning it's not really paragon or renegade... more appropriate than anything..)

The second can go either way. He is being a dick and interrupting someone... like the Renegade Sheps do..

I'd really love to believe all this, but I feel like we're just making excuses...

Modifié par Sl4sh3r, 11 mars 2012 - 10:02 .

[Lugaidster]

BlackDragonBane wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

BlackDragonBane wrote...

I think my only problem is with the child not existing. I believe the child WAS there at the beginning and after seeing him get killed by the Reaper and the fact that he told Shepard, rather bluntly 'you can't save me' really struck Shepard hard. Having to abandon Earth to save it later likely built up a lot of regret and it manifested as the child, something Harbinger could use to manipulate Shepard because of the meaning behind the memory.

Then the growl would make no sense in that particular situation at the beginning. 

BTW, we should recap all graphical evidence as well...

What growl? If you're referring to that loud sound that happens during the scene, I think it was part of the soundtrack and not the Reaper itself.

 

At or after 11:10.

[Yuzna75]

Someone asked me to bring this up, since he couldn't post:
"The Stargazer is problematic in himself, because he makes it seem as though the space travel is now impossible. If that is true and at the same time he is definitely not on Earth, then how did he learn this story? There is no way for him to learn it, hence the post credit actually proves that Sheppard must have survived and told the tale."

[Mydknightcloud]

Remember when the kid at the end tells the old man "when can I go into space?" and he tells him that he will find all sorts of life each with a different story? That could allude to the whole mass relay mess never happening. Since if they were trapped in the system they were in. He would not have told the child such. I'm thinking he would have been more like "one day when we reach the other stars"

That's my take anyway. I really need to youtube that part and listen to the context again.

Modifié par Mydknightcloud, 11 mars 2012 - 10:04 .