57139 réponses à ce sujet

[ZyionPrime]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Something to add in response for those saying that the destruction of the Mass Relays would/should destroy everything in their sectors just like in the Arrival DLC, I've given it some more thought and come up with this:

If we extrapolate facts from the game, we can assume that this system-detroying explosion comes from the Mass Relays' giant eezo cores (that big blue thing in the middle of the 2 spinning circles) then it would make sense that destroying one would set off such a destructive chain reaction. We can see a similar, although miniaturized, version of this in the beginning of ME3 on Earth when a Reaper destroys an Allliance ship not far from Shepard, the explosion from this, and therefore its eezo core, is enough to knock Shepard against a wall, and shake loose a lot of the building you're on.

In previous games we're told/given hints that the Citadel can control the entire Mass Relay network, it's where the Reapers first attacked the Protheans to both destroy their government and assume control of Relay traffic, able to strike anywhere. We're also told the Crucible needs the Citadel/Catalysts in order to work, and we see that it uses the Citadel to send your "choice" in a form of RGB colored energy through the Mass Relay system.

During the ending scenes you see the Mass Relay being destroyed, BUT if you pay close attention you can see its massive eezo core EMPTY once it fires out it's energy out to the next Mass Relay. Since there is no longer an eezo core in the Relay its destruction shouldn't set off a system destroying shockwave, instead the shockwave we see throughout the galaxy as a result is the energy of our choice being spread through all systems to affect all Reapers (or all life if you chose green).

I've already voiced my Support for the Indoctrination/Hallucination theory several times in this thread so please be gentle. I just wanted to try and put out some fires with at least this.

While it is quite possible that what you say is true, you would still end up stranding several thousands, if not millions of people in the sector that they happened to be in at the time. Which is perty much the same thing as killing them off cause they are cut off from all support. Not to mention the fact that the entire armada is in Earth's orbit when this happens, stranding them on Earth. And after a Reaper war, I seriously doubt that Earth has the resources to sustain its current human inhabitants much less an armada made up of a variety of races throughout the galaxy.

[zoidberg241]

beyzend wrote...

 Just give up guys, you've been flanked and the line has collapsed or will collapsing very soon.
TIM wins

What's the video? Won't load on my iPad

[Tibiilicious]

Apocalypse now - The End

[QwertyMusicMan]

About Ashley's dialogue in the 1st half of ME3... she doesn't trust you and says you can't be the same person. From the start, this made me consider that there would be a big twist at the end. Perhaps this is foreshadowing.

[Elscotto1989]

QwertyMusicMan wrote...

About Ashley's dialogue in the 1st half of ME3... she doesn't trust you and says you can't be the same person. From the start, this made me consider that there would be a big twist at the end. Perhaps this is foreshadowing.

pretty sure thats just spillover from the cerberus background you get in me2, and the "big twist from ashley" is if she trusts you or not during the udina incident.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

arkhine wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Something to add in response for those saying that the destruction of the Mass Relays would/should destroy everything in their sectors just like in the Arrival DLC, I've given it some more thought and come up with this:

If we extrapolate facts from the game, we can assume that this system-detroying explosion comes from the Mass Relays' giant eezo cores (that big blue thing in the middle of the 2 spinning circles) then it would make sense that destroying one would set off such a destructive chain reaction. We can see a similar, although miniaturized, version of this in the beginning of ME3 on Earth when a Reaper destroys an Allliance ship not far from Shepard, the explosion from this, and therefore its eezo core, is enough to knock Shepard against a wall, and shake loose a lot of the building you're on.

In previous games we're told/given hints that the Citadel can control the entire Mass Relay network, it's where the Reapers first attacked the Protheans to both destroy their government and assume control of Relay traffic, able to strike anywhere. We're also told the Crucible needs the Citadel/Catalysts in order to work, and we see that it uses the Citadel to send your "choice" in a form of RGB colored energy through the Mass Relay system.

During the ending scenes you see the Mass Relay being destroyed, BUT if you pay close attention you can see its massive eezo core EMPTY once it fires out it's energy out to the next Mass Relay. Since there is no longer an eezo core in the Relay its destruction shouldn't set off a system destroying shockwave, instead the shockwave we see throughout the galaxy as a result is the energy of our choice being spread through all systems to affect all Reapers (or all life if you chose green).

I've already voiced my Support for the Indoctrination/Hallucination theory several times in this thread so please be gentle. I just wanted to try and put out some fires with at least this.

I thought of this too. But every time I finish this train of thought, I start to wonder what explosion Joker is outrunning in the Normandy.

I beleive he's trying to outrun the shockwave that he assumes is from the mass relay's eezo core exploding, since he would have seen that in the Arrival DLC. Why it opens up I don't know, maybe a reaction to the Normandy's FTL drive or if the ships in a mass relay "stream" maybe thats what the middle of a shockwave is supposed to look like when traveling along a stream. Why the Normandy appears to break up in this shockwave and not an enitre solar system might also be due to the ship traveling at FTL speeds. Either way, if the Indoctrination Theory proves correct this post is just meant to quell some of the facts our fellow Bioware fans are dishing out.

[Icinix]

QwertyMusicMan wrote...

About Ashley's dialogue in the 1st half of ME3... she doesn't trust you and says you can't be the same person. From the start, this made me consider that there would be a big twist at the end. Perhaps this is foreshadowing.

There were a few things that felt slightly implied.

The dreams, Cerberus and its control discovery, the whole showing the Geth as pure innocent synthetic life - then everything at the end did a 180 and went 'Nope, we decided we don't like that.'


I still think there is an ending on the way. It would not make sense in any way shape or form to leave it like they did.

[Kanon777]

Any news over the ending?

[Tailen]

ZyionPrime wrote...

My mind instantly went to Sigmund Freud's structural model of the human psyche. Each of the characters shown in the flashes would represent a part of the psyche: Joker represents the Id, which is the part that focus's on a person's innate desires (possibly renegade decisions); Liara represent the Super-Ego, the part of the psyche that focuses on conditional beliefs (possibly paragon decisions); andAnderson represent the Ego, which is the part that mediates between the Id and Super-Ego. Taking that into consideration, the scene with TIM at the end makes more sense as it is your Ego that is loosing the fight to indoctrination (meaning that you are effectively loosing control of your own decisions).

You also see all of them sort of nodding in a half smile. Which can be taken as one of two ways. Either as a "farewell" expression given to you to show your complete loss of control to the Reapers. Or as a "good job" expression showing that you were able to overcome the Reapers and be able to maintain control over yourself. Now keep in mind im basing this assumption on knowledge I got from psychology class several years ago and only remember brief descriptions of Freud's structural model of the human psyche. So I could be right or wrong in this instance. But none the less, the fact that you see flashes those same three characters for every ending is just odd.

Interesting insight.  While some might accuse you of grasping at straws here, I find the opposite.  I can only imagine that if BioWare were going the route of a battle within Shepard's mind, doing their homework on the human psyche would have been the first thing on their list.  The kinds of clues we're finding throughout the ending absolutely reek of exactly that.

Manifestations of his personality abound...

ZyionPrime wrote...

As for the scene with Joker trying to escape the energy wave created by your decision on the Citadel; I think people are trying to take this too litterally and need to take it in forms of symbols that have meaning. Rather then trying to figure out the plot holes that led to Joker fleeing the battle at the end, look at what is happening. You see Joker trying desperately to escape the massive energy wave produced by the Citadel. Taking into account what I said earlier about Joker representing your innate desires, you can start to peice together what the scene means. Your innate desires are trying to escape from the decision you made on the Citadel. This can easily represents the consequences that follow if you let your desires take hold of you. But then again, if that is true why is it shown for destroying the Reapers? I think the reason is simple, this is the Reapers saying that resistance was futile. In the indoctrinated endings its the Reapers saying that escape from our control was impossible to begin with. In the ending where you refuse the Reapers control, it is the Reapers giving the final FU to Shepard effectively saying, "no matter what you do, you will loose."

There is something else that I've noticed about that scene right when the Normandy starts falling aparent. In both the control and synthesis endings, the scene cuts out right before you see the Normandy explode. In the destruction ending, you actually see the explosion of the Normandy. This could coincide with my theory as the Reapers' final FU to Shepard as it feels more violent and destructive.

 

This is very interesting.  It's an extremely, extremely subtle difference -- but you're absolutely right.  In the "Destroy" ending, you see an instant more of the Normandy's destruction.

Why would they have any reason to cut that scene any different?  Again, where someone else would accuse you of reaching, I join you in appreciating BioWare's attention to the symbolic details.  I see beauty where others see coincidence.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

ZyionPrime wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

*snip*.

While it is quite possible that what you say is true, you would still end up stranding several thousands, if not millions of people in the sector that they happened to be in at the time. Which is perty much the same thing as killing them off cause they are cut off from all support. Not to mention the fact that the entire armada is in Earth's orbit when this happens, stranding them on Earth. And after a Reaper war, I seriously doubt that Earth has the resources to sustain its current human inhabitants much less an armada made up of a variety of races throughout the galaxy.

This is another thing I'm currently trying to figure out, the only answer so far: "Indoctrination Theory"
We can assume the Fleets brought supplies to last for some time in battle (food, bullets, etc) but how it's enough to last until dextro-dna allies like Turians and Quarians starve from not being able to get back to their systems is beyond my current level of ME Universe knowledge. Even if organics rebuilt the Relay system it could take them decades, the only hope lies in cultivating food in nearby planets, or in systems close enough reach via FTL which could take years, but that is better than waiting decades as your comrades die one by one of starvation.

[Lextra]

this is the key

[byne]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

This is another thing I'm currently trying to figure out, the only answer so far: "Indoctrination Theory"
We can assume the Fleets brought supplies to last for some time in battle (food, bullets, etc) but how it's enough to last until dextro-dna allies like Turians and Quarians starve from not being able to get back to their systems is beyond my current level of ME Universe knowledge. Even if organics rebuilt the Relay system it could take them decades, the only hope lies in cultivating food in nearby planets, or in systems close enough reach via FTL which could take years, but that is better than waiting decades as your comrades die one by one of starvation.

Even if every fleet in the Sol system devoted all their energy to rebuilding the Charon Relay, it wont do much good.

Relays work by having another Relay they can link to.

If you just have one working Relay it'd be like having a train but no railways. That train isnt going to take you anywhere, its just gonna sit around being useless.

[Vox Draco]

I just love the indoctrination theory! I lost all interest in playing ME3 since last week, but all this speculation about the Indy-Theory...I love it!

Sadly, I would be also extremely dissapointed a second time if it turns out to be...well..nothing but a fals glimpse of hope. But so far, I will wait patiently through the upcoming week for a clear answer from Bioware.

On a side note: Thre is still a part in me that simply CANNOT believe that a huge and experienced enterprise like Bioware would be so dumb to dissapoint the thousands of fans of the franchise in such a way...

And I also cannot believe by now that EA, the big evil company of moneymaking mainstream, would like their strongest franchise to end like an arthouse or independent movie...instead of giving the fans a climax worthy of the best (or worst) Michael Bay cinematic exploits...

You cannot end a trilogy like this without a BOOM-Moment at the end. ME3 is not Kubrick's 2001. It is not a philosophical game like Final Fantasy and the likes. And this is definately not Roddenberry-Star-Trek with god-like beings (V'ger?)

It is about a soldier saving the galaxy from destruction of the dreaded calamari-borg. And if Bioware truly failed to notice this simple fact, than...I don't know...they must have taken some very potent medications... 

Wishful thinking on my behalf, I am aware of that...

[DangerSandler]

I have a question. How is it that TIM looks normal - even after he had the mysterious procedure done to him - when he is on the holo talking to Shepard at Cerberus HQ about the Prothean AI, then when Shepard meets TIM on the Citadel he looks like a husk? In the vids he was talking to his doctor about having some weird procedure done to him, but that was at Cerberus HQ (presumably) and before the assault on the HQ took place. And theres maybe a few days time lapse between the HQ raid and the Assault on Earth? I dont really understand why he looks the way he does on the Citadel.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

byne wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

This is another thing I'm currently trying to figure out, the only answer so far: "Indoctrination Theory"
We can assume the Fleets brought supplies to last for some time in battle (food, bullets, etc) but how it's enough to last until dextro-dna allies like Turians and Quarians starve from not being able to get back to their systems is beyond my current level of ME Universe knowledge. Even if organics rebuilt the Relay system it could take them decades, the only hope lies in cultivating food in nearby planets, or in systems close enough reach via FTL which could take years, but that is better than waiting decades as your comrades die one by one of starvation.

Even if every fleet in the Sol system devoted all their energy to rebuilding the Charon Relay, it wont do much good.

Relays work by having another Relay they can link to.

If you just have one working Relay it'd be like having a train but no railways. That train isnt going to take you anywhere, its just gonna sit around being useless.

Very true, but lets not forget that QEC and some comm bouys still work, it's possible for those in the Sol system/Local Cluster to comminicate with homeworld systems to build enough of a Mass Relay network to travel. But, another hurdle is rebuilding the Citadel or something similar to control this relay network.

[Martukis]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

ZyionPrime wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

*snip*.

While it is quite possible that what you say is true, you would still end up stranding several thousands, if not millions of people in the sector that they happened to be in at the time. Which is perty much the same thing as killing them off cause they are cut off from all support. Not to mention the fact that the entire armada is in Earth's orbit when this happens, stranding them on Earth. And after a Reaper war, I seriously doubt that Earth has the resources to sustain its current human inhabitants much less an armada made up of a variety of races throughout the galaxy.

This is another thing I'm currently trying to figure out, the only answer so far: "Indoctrination Theory"
We can assume the Fleets brought supplies to last for some time in battle (food, bullets, etc) but how it's enough to last until dextro-dna allies like Turians and Quarians starve from not being able to get back to their systems is beyond my current level of ME Universe knowledge. Even if organics rebuilt the Relay system it could take them decades, the only hope lies in cultivating food in nearby planets, or in systems close enough reach via FTL which could take years, but that is better than waiting decades as your comrades die one by one of starvation.

 It is shown on the wiki - http://masseffect.wi..._-_January_2011 - that Alpha Centauri had a rather successful, if underdeveloped, colony established. This was in the Cerberus Daily News - the significance is that it is 1) within non-relay FTL range, and 2) unlikely to have been attacked by reapers. Whether or not it could support the variety and amount of life in the fleet is questionable, but I imagine it could help support some.

[DonutsDealer]

Don't know if anyone noticed this. When you do the suicide run to the beam there isn't a single tree, right? Now after you wake up from Harby's laser and look behind you you see a TREE! Definitely it's an hallucination to me.

[DangerSandler]

DonutsDealer wrote...

Don't know if anyone noticed this. When you do the suicide run to the beam there isn't a single tree, right? Now after you wake up from Harby's laser and look behind you you see a TREE! Definitely it's an hallucination to me.

There's trees on both sides when running to the beam. 

[byne]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

byne wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

This is another thing I'm currently trying to figure out, the only answer so far: "Indoctrination Theory"
We can assume the Fleets brought supplies to last for some time in battle (food, bullets, etc) but how it's enough to last until dextro-dna allies like Turians and Quarians starve from not being able to get back to their systems is beyond my current level of ME Universe knowledge. Even if organics rebuilt the Relay system it could take them decades, the only hope lies in cultivating food in nearby planets, or in systems close enough reach via FTL which could take years, but that is better than waiting decades as your comrades die one by one of starvation.

Even if every fleet in the Sol system devoted all their energy to rebuilding the Charon Relay, it wont do much good.

Relays work by having another Relay they can link to.

If you just have one working Relay it'd be like having a train but no railways. That train isnt going to take you anywhere, its just gonna sit around being useless.

Very true, but lets not forget that QEC and some comm bouys still work, it's possible for those in the Sol system/Local Cluster to comminicate with homeworld systems to build enough of a Mass Relay network to travel. But, another hurdle is rebuilding the Citadel or something similar to control this relay network.

Unless I'm much mistaken, the comm buoys relied on the Mass Relays, and QECs are very very rare. I think the Normandy was one of the few ships that had a QEC.

[Martukis]

double post, my bad

Modifié par Martukis, 18 mars 2012 - 10:04 .

[Martukis]

Martukis wrote...

byne wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

byne wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

This is another thing I'm currently trying to figure out, the only answer so far: "Indoctrination Theory"
We can assume the Fleets brought supplies to last for some time in battle (food, bullets, etc) but how it's enough to last until dextro-dna allies like Turians and Quarians starve from not being able to get back to their systems is beyond my current level of ME Universe knowledge. Even if organics rebuilt the Relay system it could take them decades, the only hope lies in cultivating food in nearby planets, or in systems close enough reach via FTL which could take years, but that is better than waiting decades as your comrades die one by one of starvation.

Even if every fleet in the Sol system devoted all their energy to rebuilding the Charon Relay, it wont do much good.

Relays work by having another Relay they can link to.

If you just have one working Relay it'd be like having a train but no railways. That train isnt going to take you anywhere, its just gonna sit around being useless.

Very true, but lets not forget that QEC and some comm bouys still work, it's possible for those in the Sol system/Local Cluster to comminicate with homeworld systems to build enough of a Mass Relay network to travel. But, another hurdle is rebuilding the Citadel or something similar to control this relay network.

Unless I'm much mistaken, the comm buoys relied on the Mass Relays, and QECs are very very rare. I think the Normandy was one of the few ships that had a QEC.

 They were very rare as of ME2, but by ME 3 they seem more common. Evidence of this would seem to be all the QEC calling you can do in london at the end. That said, I think you are right about them relying on the relays to some extent, meaning their usefullness just became... limited.

[DonutsDealer]

DangerSandler wrote...

DonutsDealer wrote...

Don't know if anyone noticed this. When you do the suicide run to the beam there isn't a single tree, right? Now after you wake up from Harby's laser and look behind you you see a TREE! Definitely it's an hallucination to me.

There's trees on both sides when running to the beam. 

But not right in the middle as this was, and there was also grown vegetation in there that wasn't before. There is just something wrong with it.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

byne wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

byne wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

This is another thing I'm currently trying to figure out, the only answer so far: "Indoctrination Theory"
We can assume the Fleets brought supplies to last for some time in battle (food, bullets, etc) but how it's enough to last until dextro-dna allies like Turians and Quarians starve from not being able to get back to their systems is beyond my current level of ME Universe knowledge. Even if organics rebuilt the Relay system it could take them decades, the only hope lies in cultivating food in nearby planets, or in systems close enough reach via FTL which could take years, but that is better than waiting decades as your comrades die one by one of starvation.

Even if every fleet in the Sol system devoted all their energy to rebuilding the Charon Relay, it wont do much good.

Relays work by having another Relay they can link to.

If you just have one working Relay it'd be like having a train but no railways. That train isnt going to take you anywhere, its just gonna sit around being useless.

Very true, but lets not forget that QEC and some comm bouys still work, it's possible for those in the Sol system/Local Cluster to comminicate with homeworld systems to build enough of a Mass Relay network to travel. But, another hurdle is rebuilding the Citadel or something similar to control this relay network.

Unless I'm much mistaken, the comm buoys relied on the Mass Relays, and QECs are very very rare. I think the Normandy was one of the few ships that had a QEC.

Ah I didn't know comm buoys relayed on Mass Relays (the more you know!). But, during the game its stated that there are a handful of QEC on Earth, I would like to think that survivors of the battle pooled these together to communicate with the rest of the galaxy. Maybe some other ships of the varied fleet have QEC built in, I assume Admiral Hackett's did since you communicate with him often.

[Elscotto1989]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

byne wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

byne wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

This is another thing I'm currently trying to figure out, the only answer so far: "Indoctrination Theory"
We can assume the Fleets brought supplies to last for some time in battle (food, bullets, etc) but how it's enough to last until dextro-dna allies like Turians and Quarians starve from not being able to get back to their systems is beyond my current level of ME Universe knowledge. Even if organics rebuilt the Relay system it could take them decades, the only hope lies in cultivating food in nearby planets, or in systems close enough reach via FTL which could take years, but that is better than waiting decades as your comrades die one by one of starvation.

Even if every fleet in the Sol system devoted all their energy to rebuilding the Charon Relay, it wont do much good.

Relays work by having another Relay they can link to.

If you just have one working Relay it'd be like having a train but no railways. That train isnt going to take you anywhere, its just gonna sit around being useless.

Very true, but lets not forget that QEC and some comm bouys still work, it's possible for those in the Sol system/Local Cluster to comminicate with homeworld systems to build enough of a Mass Relay network to travel. But, another hurdle is rebuilding the Citadel or something similar to control this relay network.

Unless I'm much mistaken, the comm buoys relied on the Mass Relays, and QECs are very very rare. I think the Normandy was one of the few ships that had a QEC.

Ah I didn't know comm buoys relayed on Mass Relays (the more you know!). But, during the game its stated that there are a handful of QEC on Earth, I would like to think that survivors of the battle pooled these together to communicate with the rest of the galaxy. Maybe some other ships of the varied fleet have QEC built in, I assume Admiral Hackett's did since you communicate with him often.

wait wait wait...if there are a few on earth and the relays are gone, how do you propose they are to get those to the rest of the galaxy to share them? if they pooled them together they would just be screaming back and for at different parts of earth.  lol  *space magic* strikes again.

[byne]

Elscotto1989 wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

byne wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

byne wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

This is another thing I'm currently trying to figure out, the only answer so far: "Indoctrination Theory"
We can assume the Fleets brought supplies to last for some time in battle (food, bullets, etc) but how it's enough to last until dextro-dna allies like Turians and Quarians starve from not being able to get back to their systems is beyond my current level of ME Universe knowledge. Even if organics rebuilt the Relay system it could take them decades, the only hope lies in cultivating food in nearby planets, or in systems close enough reach via FTL which could take years, but that is better than waiting decades as your comrades die one by one of starvation.

Even if every fleet in the Sol system devoted all their energy to rebuilding the Charon Relay, it wont do much good.

Relays work by having another Relay they can link to.

If you just have one working Relay it'd be like having a train but no railways. That train isnt going to take you anywhere, its just gonna sit around being useless.

Very true, but lets not forget that QEC and some comm bouys still work, it's possible for those in the Sol system/Local Cluster to comminicate with homeworld systems to build enough of a Mass Relay network to travel. But, another hurdle is rebuilding the Citadel or something similar to control this relay network.

Unless I'm much mistaken, the comm buoys relied on the Mass Relays, and QECs are very very rare. I think the Normandy was one of the few ships that had a QEC.

Ah I didn't know comm buoys relayed on Mass Relays (the more you know!). But, during the game its stated that there are a handful of QEC on Earth, I would like to think that survivors of the battle pooled these together to communicate with the rest of the galaxy. Maybe some other ships of the varied fleet have QEC built in, I assume Admiral Hackett's did since you communicate with him often.

wait wait wait...if there are a few on earth and the relays are gone, how do you propose they are to get those to the rest of the galaxy to share them? if they pooled them together they would just be screaming back and for at different parts of earth.  lol  *space magic* strikes again.

Well, one would assume that there arent any QECs linked to other QECs on Earth, that would be a massive waste of money.

QECs are for instant lag-free communication over any number of light-years. QECs on Earth would likely be linked to other important locations in the galaxy, or important ships.

Each QEC is linked only to one other QEC, like how the QEC we had in ME2 only linked us to TIMs base, and nowhere else.