57139 réponses à ce sujet

[RADIUMEYEZ]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Another point to note as well is that if you go in the squad panel when you are up with the Catalyst, your health is stated as "0".. perhaps another indication that by this point he is already dead/unconscious?

Slo Shepard's face is rather clean.. while he is wearing that busted up armour.. more clues/confusion...

Interesting I never even thought to look at the squad menu when I went through it the two times I did.

Modifié par RADIUMEYEZ, 18 mars 2012 - 01:06 .

[arkhine]

Elscotto1989 wrote...

MDT1 wrote...
Well, I guess its all coincidence, but it's still in the game and thus a way to save the franchise without rewriting anything.

agreed it wouldnt require a ton of retcon to the already laid-out foundation for the theory that we just keep seeming to add to as the days go on just stuff after what we have already been presented with.  Holding the line in Alabama. Keelah Se'lai!

If they run with the idea without it being their intention all along, whoever contributed to this theory needs payment! 

[arkhine]

RADIUMEYEZ wrote...

Yeah I had never been so shocked from a video game story line before that one. TOR was kind of a disappointment in my opinion.

I thought KotOR 2 fell kinda flat though. It wasn't BioWare but still it took me a lot longer to get through.

[Jaxitty]

Part of the reason that the Indoctrination theory there keeps being added to and why there are only snippets of what might seem to others, to be coincidence is that throughout all three games, Bioware's attention to detail borders on the anal. It's part of the attraction for much of the fan base, immersing you in a world that is so in depth it literally comes alive for you.

THAT is why the fans are pissed at the endings because to the majority it seems that Bioware abandoned that attention to detail to the point where you'd swear Pod People wrote it.

Modifié par Jaxitty, 18 mars 2012 - 01:13 .

[Elscotto1989]

arkhine wrote...

Elscotto1989 wrote...

MDT1 wrote...
Well, I guess its all coincidence, but it's still in the game and thus a way to save the franchise without rewriting anything.

agreed it wouldnt require a ton of retcon to the already laid-out foundation for the theory that we just keep seeming to add to as the days go on just stuff after what we have already been presented with.  Holding the line in Alabama. Keelah Se'lai!

If they run with the idea without it being their intention all along, whoever contributed to this theory needs payment! 

they could go through the thread and see what members contributed and give them some kind of in game item or weapon pack or some kinda special skin or something just to say thanks. i mean if you register your bought collectibles to your account like i did my normandy sr2 replica and they give you an in game weapon pack as thanks i dont see why they couldnt do that in this case. but i could care either way if they did that or not as long as they ran with the idea and pulled mass effect 3 back up where it belongs...out of the sewer.

[xMidgetxNinjax]

This is an insanely "reaching at straws" point and probably not valid at all, but it made me chuckle when Javik (himself an issue, as we found out with the Day One DLC...) referenced the "Metacon War", the Prothean equivalent of the Morning War.

So, meta, as in outside the subject, as in metagaming aka the real world? And con, as in... well, deception? No?

No. Probably not. Worth a shot anyway...

[RADIUMEYEZ]

arkhine wrote...

RADIUMEYEZ wrote...

Yeah I had never been so shocked from a video game story line before that one. TOR was kind of a disappointment in my opinion.

I thought KotOR 2 fell kinda flat though. It wasn't BioWare but still it took me a lot longer to get through.

Same here I never really felt that KotOR 2 was as engrossing as the first. My friend on the other hand swears up and down that it was better than the first and I always give him a funny look when he says that.

[arkhine]

DuskRose wrote...

LucasArts rushed production, which made Obsidian have to cut lots of awesome stuff.

You should look up Scorchy's Let's Play of it.

What might that be?

[SirLugash]

About the mass relays when taking the Control option: The comparison video is nice, but you can't see that much.
Pick a video of the Control ending, and you see that after the relay fired the beam, that debris is falling off the relay.
The scene just cuts out earlier.
Anyways, even if the relay wasn't destroyed, as someone picked up before, it looks like there is no more eezo in it, therefore it remains rather useless.

[monrapias]

But to say that they are all stuck on earth would be wrong.

They still have FTL, and they can fly from one system to another, you could easly fly outside any system, and use up your fuel to get to another system.

Sure they can't get as far as they could, but they aren't stuck on earth, just stuck in the Sol system and the system closely around sol.

[S Atomeha]

 when you assault the cerberus base the prothean vi says  "you are here to recover me from indoctrinated forces?" but when you ask him about the catalyst he says "All security protocols have been overriden.  I will comply"

[Blackan8]

Hey I'm new around this Forum and felt sharing something about this hallucination talk and on the Destroy ending

if you pay close attention to it when Shepard starts shooting, he/she Stands straight, moves alittle faster, have enough energy to hold the gun with both hands and even push forward...Moments ago Shepard could barely run, let alone walk well....(even Tripped and Passed out) and is keeps on limping

Didn't Harbinger say something about this in ME2

"Pain is a illusion"

..thoughts?

[Joukahainen]

Didnt see this here yet.

Hold the line!

[Flapperrr]

One girl, from Russian community has noticed that in a roller when the Forge flies up to the Citadel, it is visible that it comes to it from the inside and when it is joined, already to the external.

[Blackan8]

Rob Psyence wrote...

Note: forgive me for the caps I originally posted this in the comments section of a blog so there was no bold and I used caps for emphasis.
Ok people I got an account just to do this, specifically to not remain annonymous. I am going to strip away a lot of the imagery in the endings and I am going to attack this issue at its CORE. That core is the concept of indoctorination as it is concerned in the mass effect universe. I intend to explain how this concept pertains to what happens in the end.

First of all I dislike using the term "dream" or "hallucination" for the mere fact that to me both of these terms make it sound as if it just happened as a result of circumstance. Whereas, indoctorination implies that some outside force or some thing is directly and intentionally attempting to subvert and influence a victim's mind through mental suggestion. Thus, calling it a hallucination or a dream is a fallacy.

The reapers are hundreds of thousands of years old and have become masters of influencing the minds of organic, sapient beings. They can bend your mind from the shroud of darkness over vast spaces. When Paul Grayson gets reaper tech implanted into him by cerberus in the books, he is a red sand addict...he chose to get off the stuff for gillian, so he was extremely difficult to be indoctorinated by sheer will. What does cerberus and TIM do? they inject concentrated red sand into Grayson, it weakens his mind and his resolve and soon, the reapers gain full control of him. Getting to my main point...

When Shepard is running toward the conduit beam, dodging laser after laser blasted upon him by Harbinger, Harbinger is becoming desperate, Shepard is bound and determined to destroy them and then a laser hits at his feet causing an explosion of splash damage, Shepard is knocked unconscious and his body is beaten and bloody. What does that state do? It makes him MORE susceptible to being influenced. Harbinger sees this chance and assumes control, trying its utmost best to bend Shepard to Indoctorinate him.

Revisiting Paul Grayson once again there is a scene in the book in which in order to protect Gillian and not lead Cerberus to her he sets his shuttle to go in the opposite direction. Ah but you see, that was only a trick and it is stated as such in the book. The reaper controlling him made Grayson THINK that he set the coordinates away from Gillian's location and instead makes him set the coordinates TOWARD her position and he doesnt realize it until it is too late. This undeniably prooves that once a reaper indoctorinates you it can make you think and see anything it wants. It will use anything at its disposal to maintain control.

So once again we find ourselves back at Shepard. From the beginning of the game the little boy is a seed planted not only in Shepard's mind but into the minds of the players. You see him get killed and it tugs at your heart strings, it makes you feel remorse, then throughout the game there are the dreams, only you and Shepard knows what he looks like. But then at the end all of the sudden this catalyst ai not only knows of the boy but also knows his form? This does not seem peculiar to you?

That points to something digging into your mind and you must realize that the reapers, Harbinger will use deception and deceit if that means bending you to its will. The boy in the beginning could be real but that doesn't stop Harbinger from using his memory as a tool. This boys memory causes Shepard to want to trust him so there is no argument at all.

Its not like the conversation with the Illusive man where you can argue as the tendrils of inky shadow tear at your consciousness. The illusive man tries to convince you to control the reapers but you see that is irrelevant because TIM is already being controlled and thus Harbinger KNOWS what the Crucible does.

Is it so farfetched to believe that Harbinger would lie and distort the truth of the crucible's true functionality in order to ensure its survival because moments ago Shepard and the player was bent on its destruction?
Control over the reapers is a lie. Perhaps the method in which to choose "control" is really an emergency abort. To choose "destroy" is perhaps a contengency to ensure it cannot be stopped. Perhaps Synthesis is to do neither and to THROW yourself at the mercy of the cosmos.

Control is not the reapers ideal choice because it would "Delay the inevitible." But eventually Harbinger will wear down your mind and Indoctorinate you fully. But to me there is something more likely at the core of these decisions and that is the "CONTROL" of Shepard's mind.

To choose "control" is to choose the complete submission to the reaper's control, for his mind to be consumed just as the energy CONSUMES his body. To choose Synthesis is to choose your mind to become merged and soon be CONSUMED by the reaper's programming. To choose "destroy" is to choose free will, to break the control and to FIGHT Indoctorination.

TIM is "already under our control." And yet what does the image show? TIM choosing control...he CHOSE his own submission and is bathed in the color of Paragon, this is the choice you are compelled to choose Shepard...Player, for THREE games you attributed blue to good, to right. "You wish to destroy us." What does it show Anderson doing? Anderson choosing to break control as he is bathed in the color of Renegade...this is the choice you are compelled to not choose Shepard...Player for THREE games you attributed red to bad, to wrong.
TIM represents the control the reapers have over organics. Anderson represents the conviction to break control. TIM has been the antagonist for the entire game and showed fear of the reapers .

WHY would you choose to side with him and why is he paragon now? Anderson has heart and conviction, he cares for Shepard and he cares for Humanity, he has been in the trenches fighting the reapers the entire game. Why would you not side with him and why is he now renegade all of the sudden?

Ladies and gentlemen of the ME community I show to you that the desperate Harbinger is the worst evil of them all. Harbinger is the evil of deception, Harbinger is the embodiment of dominance and has been for the entire series. Is it so foolish to think that it wouldn't take advantage of a weakened mind? Hackett comes on the com and says "its not working, something is wrong." Shepard reaches up to the console but collapses before he can touch it. The battle rages inside of Shepard's mind. WAKE UP SHEPARD. Shepard lays in the rubble as the gargantuan Harbinger looms over its would be destoyer, boring into his mind, twisting his reality and twisting OUR reality.

"Shepard, I am your salvation through destruction." It has been hammered into us battle after battle game after game. But all of the sudden Harbinger, who knows how the crucible really works through the indoctorinated TIM's interference tells us control is the way to go. To me this is a LIE, it is not the control of the reapers, it is the control of you. To choose to destoy is to "Destroy all synthetics"? HAH. How do we know it doesn't just destroy you, Harbinger. "The peace won't last, your children will make synthetics and the cycle continues." Sounds like trash talk to me.

I refuse to be indoctorinated, you will not influence my decision Harbinger. Even if it did destroy the geth after I previously saved them. I will bring your end, you will no longer kill thousands of civilizations over many millenia. This is MY "Salvation through destruction" and thus the Indoctorination is broken, Harbinger's hold IS BROKEN. Shepard wakes up and takes a breath. The screen falls to black. There IS Unfinished business.

I like what I'm hearing from this o:

[Rifneno]

S Atomeha wrote...

 when you assault the cerberus base the prothean vi says  "you are here to recover me from indoctrinated forces?" but when you ask him about the catalyst he says "All security protocols have been overriden.  I will comply"

It also says that it's been programmed not to reveal the catalyst until the crucible is complete.  I'd imagine that's why it's mentioning security protocols have been hacked.

[Tyyppi]

I've been reading this thread since I finished ME3 last Wednesday. And this was my reaction when I realized the fact that Shepard was indoctrinated.

[SirLugash]

Of course, whether or not the races are trapped in earths orbit is save is relative, there is a lot of things not known (where is the closest system with habitable planets, how fast is conventional FTL travel etc). But assuming they actually are trapped isn't far fetched.

---

Something different crossed my mind:
The closing Citadel would trap the people inside it, right ?
Well how good that there are so many people in one place (especially with all the refuges that additionally came to the station because of the war) to be harvested...
I mean Shep and Anderson were mentioning that they would build a reaper in there.
Another manifestation of the civilisation's fate when taking the "good / paragon" end ?
Just saying...

[ME2Pilot]

Blackan8 wrote...

Rob Psyence wrote...

Note: forgive me for the caps I originally posted this in the comments section of a blog so there was no bold and I used caps for emphasis.
Ok people I got an account just to do this, specifically to not remain annonymous. I am going to strip away a lot of the imagery in the endings and I am going to attack this issue at its CORE. That core is the concept of indoctorination as it is concerned in the mass effect universe. I intend to explain how this concept pertains to what happens in the end.

First of all I dislike using the term "dream" or "hallucination" for the mere fact that to me both of these terms make it sound as if it just happened as a result of circumstance. Whereas, indoctorination implies that some outside force or some thing is directly and intentionally attempting to subvert and influence a victim's mind through mental suggestion. Thus, calling it a hallucination or a dream is a fallacy.

The reapers are hundreds of thousands of years old and have become masters of influencing the minds of organic, sapient beings. They can bend your mind from the shroud of darkness over vast spaces. When Paul Grayson gets reaper tech implanted into him by cerberus in the books, he is a red sand addict...he chose to get off the stuff for gillian, so he was extremely difficult to be indoctorinated by sheer will. What does cerberus and TIM do? they inject concentrated red sand into Grayson, it weakens his mind and his resolve and soon, the reapers gain full control of him. Getting to my main point...

When Shepard is running toward the conduit beam, dodging laser after laser blasted upon him by Harbinger, Harbinger is becoming desperate, Shepard is bound and determined to destroy them and then a laser hits at his feet causing an explosion of splash damage, Shepard is knocked unconscious and his body is beaten and bloody. What does that state do? It makes him MORE susceptible to being influenced. Harbinger sees this chance and assumes control, trying its utmost best to bend Shepard to Indoctorinate him.

Revisiting Paul Grayson once again there is a scene in the book in which in order to protect Gillian and not lead Cerberus to her he sets his shuttle to go in the opposite direction. Ah but you see, that was only a trick and it is stated as such in the book. The reaper controlling him made Grayson THINK that he set the coordinates away from Gillian's location and instead makes him set the coordinates TOWARD her position and he doesnt realize it until it is too late. This undeniably prooves that once a reaper indoctorinates you it can make you think and see anything it wants. It will use anything at its disposal to maintain control.

So once again we find ourselves back at Shepard. From the beginning of the game the little boy is a seed planted not only in Shepard's mind but into the minds of the players. You see him get killed and it tugs at your heart strings, it makes you feel remorse, then throughout the game there are the dreams, only you and Shepard knows what he looks like. But then at the end all of the sudden this catalyst ai not only knows of the boy but also knows his form? This does not seem peculiar to you?

That points to something digging into your mind and you must realize that the reapers, Harbinger will use deception and deceit if that means bending you to its will. The boy in the beginning could be real but that doesn't stop Harbinger from using his memory as a tool. This boys memory causes Shepard to want to trust him so there is no argument at all.

Its not like the conversation with the Illusive man where you can argue as the tendrils of inky shadow tear at your consciousness. The illusive man tries to convince you to control the reapers but you see that is irrelevant because TIM is already being controlled and thus Harbinger KNOWS what the Crucible does.

Is it so farfetched to believe that Harbinger would lie and distort the truth of the crucible's true functionality in order to ensure its survival because moments ago Shepard and the player was bent on its destruction?
Control over the reapers is a lie. Perhaps the method in which to choose "control" is really an emergency abort. To choose "destroy" is perhaps a contengency to ensure it cannot be stopped. Perhaps Synthesis is to do neither and to THROW yourself at the mercy of the cosmos.

Control is not the reapers ideal choice because it would "Delay the inevitible." But eventually Harbinger will wear down your mind and Indoctorinate you fully. But to me there is something more likely at the core of these decisions and that is the "CONTROL" of Shepard's mind.

To choose "control" is to choose the complete submission to the reaper's control, for his mind to be consumed just as the energy CONSUMES his body. To choose Synthesis is to choose your mind to become merged and soon be CONSUMED by the reaper's programming. To choose "destroy" is to choose free will, to break the control and to FIGHT Indoctorination.

TIM is "already under our control." And yet what does the image show? TIM choosing control...he CHOSE his own submission and is bathed in the color of Paragon, this is the choice you are compelled to choose Shepard...Player, for THREE games you attributed blue to good, to right. "You wish to destroy us." What does it show Anderson doing? Anderson choosing to break control as he is bathed in the color of Renegade...this is the choice you are compelled to not choose Shepard...Player for THREE games you attributed red to bad, to wrong.
TIM represents the control the reapers have over organics. Anderson represents the conviction to break control. TIM has been the antagonist for the entire game and showed fear of the reapers .

WHY would you choose to side with him and why is he paragon now? Anderson has heart and conviction, he cares for Shepard and he cares for Humanity, he has been in the trenches fighting the reapers the entire game. Why would you not side with him and why is he now renegade all of the sudden?

Ladies and gentlemen of the ME community I show to you that the desperate Harbinger is the worst evil of them all. Harbinger is the evil of deception, Harbinger is the embodiment of dominance and has been for the entire series. Is it so foolish to think that it wouldn't take advantage of a weakened mind? Hackett comes on the com and says "its not working, something is wrong." Shepard reaches up to the console but collapses before he can touch it. The battle rages inside of Shepard's mind. WAKE UP SHEPARD. Shepard lays in the rubble as the gargantuan Harbinger looms over its would be destoyer, boring into his mind, twisting his reality and twisting OUR reality.

"Shepard, I am your salvation through destruction." It has been hammered into us battle after battle game after game. But all of the sudden Harbinger, who knows how the crucible really works through the indoctorinated TIM's interference tells us control is the way to go. To me this is a LIE, it is not the control of the reapers, it is the control of you. To choose to destoy is to "Destroy all synthetics"? HAH. How do we know it doesn't just destroy you, Harbinger. "The peace won't last, your children will make synthetics and the cycle continues." Sounds like trash talk to me.

I refuse to be indoctorinated, you will not influence my decision Harbinger. Even if it did destroy the geth after I previously saved them. I will bring your end, you will no longer kill thousands of civilizations over many millenia. This is MY "Salvation through destruction" and thus the Indoctorination is broken, Harbinger's hold IS BROKEN. Shepard wakes up and takes a breath. The screen falls to black. There IS Unfinished business.

I like what I'm hearing from this o:

HELL YES! I could NOT have said this better myself!

WE'RE WITH YOU SHEPARD!

BREAK FREE! 

HOLD THE LINE!

[Terran235]

Regarding the busted mass relays. Anyone thought maybe bioware wants to go the final fantasy route? as in make self contained stories that have nothing to do with each other besides the crystal legends. In this case the mass relays. /Mindblown?

[RADIUMEYEZ]

Joukahainen wrote...



Didnt see this here yet.

Hold the line!

That is a good news now that it has gotten national media coverage like this it will put more heat on the issue. I would still like to believe though that Bioware had it planned to add to the ending regardless of the heat they are getting.

[Golferguy758]

There are so many glaring plot holes that can't be explained away in ANY of the endings.
Except if it wasn't real.

This is why i continue to keep faith in Bioware that they have an ace up their sleeve.

Bioware still hasn't gotten into defending their endings yet. This is pretty big in my eyes/

They've simply stated they want more people to experience the ending before getting into it.
... they want more people to believe that was the real ending.
Hell, I thought those were the real endings the first time through, as out of place as I thought everything was, until I started thinking more about it.

[Pathero]

I've taken that the colour swap on the options was a kind of meta game on the player. The player is ocnditioned to choose blue for paragon, red for renegade.

Blue is best
Blue is best
Blue is best

All through the game. Through all the games. Then we get to the end and they flip the colours. I bet there are some people who will pick control because it is blue and for no other reason.